I accept my lack of knowledge and that is why asking you and trying to understand... Muslims can protect their beliefs and tell the truth even by participating in other's festivals, even it is better to go there and show them their openness and make them curious. If a religion allows to marry a christian or jew who are going to be Ummah's mothers later on, why would it ban participating in their festivals. I am sure your knowledge will guide me in clearing away this confusion. Thanks.
Naya Pakistan?
- Thread starter Navash
- Start date
I accept my lack of knowledge and that is why asking you and trying to understand... Muslims can protect their beliefs and tell the truth even by participating in other's festivals, even it is better to go there and show them their openness and make them curious. If a religion allows to marry a christian or jew who are going to be Ummah's mothers later on, why would it ban participating in their festivals. I am sure your knowledge will guide me in clearing away this confusion. Thanks.
Truth matters
MPA (400+ posts)
See the religion prescribes the way on how to conduct yourself through Quran and Sunnah.The guidelines are there ,me and you cannot estabilish what we like or because we think that it's a good way to get people to Islam if it goes against the teachings or is a position of doubt.At the end you don't want to be doing the right thing the wrong way.
And JazakAllah khair for your continued interest in seeking the truth to the matter.May Allah guide us to the truth and keep us steadfast in his Deen.
And JazakAllah khair for your continued interest in seeking the truth to the matter.May Allah guide us to the truth and keep us steadfast in his Deen.
I have explained the marriage thing so I won't reply to that.
Part taking in shirk is not the way to show openness and furthering the cause of Islam. If the christians said we will be very pleased with you if you drink alcohol in our celebration, would you do that?
Abu Bakr may Allah tala be pleased with him faced many fitnas during his time. Never did he think o lets be buddy buddy and play openness. No he crushed those fitnas had he not protected Islam, we would not have been Muslim today.
Agree 100%. People who oppose this gesture will be the one who protest in WEST for not giving permission to build mosque. Got my point? Give us what the world has to offer, don't ask us to give back in return.
Look at the bright side and move on, they are celebrating HB of Nawaz shareef and M.A. Jinah :)
Steyn
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Jazakallah Khairun brother for speaking about this. I made a couple threads about this, one of them was merged into a dead thread that nobody visited, another was deleted.
The problem is that Christmas isn't a celebration of birth of Jesus Christ (AS) since they don't know the birth date but the celebration of associating lies to Allah (swt).
Everything is wrong with it. When you celebrate it, you say you're pleased with what they associate to Allah (swt) Nauzbillah.
If we're so worried about pleasing minorities, why not celebrate and congratulate Hindus on their Hindu festivals? What is wrong with celebrating Ganesha Chaturti? Hindus need solidarity too.
In the video i posted that the administration merged so it doesn't get any views, two former Christians explained why Muslims don't celebrate Xmas. Why don't Christians celebrate Eid? Or Hindu festivals? Aren't they close minded? It isn't even an issue but God forbid, a Muslim practices his religion, it is extremism. Despicable!!!
People who call Muslims extremists when they reject these pegan festivities are extremists themselves.
I don't blame Muslims who are saying this out of ignorance but when a brother is explaining to you, it's time to shut up and listen and educate yourself. Because it's a serious matter. I didn't know either but when YouTube suggested me Deenshow video about why Muslims don't celebrate Xmas, i clicked on it and didn't scream extremism or drag Khadim Rizvi into it.
Sadly this is the state of the Muslims, they love being educated by liberals and atheists and pegans but God forbid, a Muslim tells them something, it's immediately extremism.
Look at the life of Prophet Muhammad (saww), did you see Sahabas(ra) celebrating Christmas? No!. Yet they were considered tolerant and even JEWS came to Muslims for justice and fairness.
rolnrol
MPA (400+ posts)
This is going in circles. It's Christian celebration and on one has an objection. Let them celebrate But why do the Muslim leaders have to take part in it. We muslims don't expect that Ramadan be celebrated by jews or Christians or any other group do we ? It's pretty obvious and not a rocket science. And people pretending not to understand the point are just pretending.
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Steyn
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
How is it intolerant? Not celebrating someone else's religion makes you intolerant? Do you even listen to yourself?
What about celebrating Islamic festivals? Because you will not find a Hindu or a Christian or a Jew celebration Eid? What about atheists who reject all religions and don't celebrate any festival? Aren't they intolerant and close minded?
SubhanAllah, look at the ridiculous way Islam is attacked when these people's own life is full of hypocrisy. In this thread, nobody will call someone intolerant or close minded for not wanting to celebrate Ganesha or Holi or Day of the dead but Islam is obviously under attack.
You're right, you're extremely ignorant. Christmas has no basis in Christianity and it's a man made bullshit. Did Jesus (AS) celebrate Christmas? No. Where did it came from? Man made bullshit.
You're supposed to marry a good Christian and a good Christian follows their Bible. They don't fornicate, drink alcohol or indulge in other lewd behaviour. So it's okay but it's not preferred. Because they still have a lot of beliefs that are against monotheism.
Marriage has nothing to do with celebrating pegan festivals. You're not supposed to engage in pegan behaviour with your wife even if you marry. I don't know what you think marriage is, marriage doesn't mean your brain is fused with someone else. You can have completely different world views and still be married and love your partners.
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Steyn
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
One has nothing to do with another.
What is your point? If you oppose celebrating Ganesha, you're wrong to protest not allowed to have government jobs in West?
What the?
Also the world isn't anyone's property. A Muslim has as much right over conquering any place like America has over slaughtering native Indians, importing negro for slavery and then erasing history and preaching tolerance. What does this statement mean? Give us what the world has to offer and give nothing in return? I don't like how you're degrading Muslims to some low level piece of shits who are being done a favor by given something and they have to offer something back.
You extremist piece of shit, imagine if I used the language you used against your family. You want the world to give you something in return for nothing. How would you feel?
You want Pakistan to give you what it has to offer but give nothing in return. The fact you use this type of statement shows your mentality. What have you given to this world? That i as a Muslim am forbidden to want something from the world unless i give something back??
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ashiqahasan
Minister (2k+ posts)
Excellent
crankthskunk
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I know the history of Christianity and Bible's composition.
The issue is not that at all. It is up to the individuals to do their research if they want to find the truth. If they are ok to toe the lies, then it is their problem. You are only showing harmony to the level that these people are free to celebrate their religion, whichever form they want it to be.
Listen brother, at the time of Prophet SAW the trinity doctrine, 25th December as Jesus birthday etc were well established. Quran deny trinity and Christian's beliefs. But Quran still calls them people of the book. You think Prophet SAW didn't know about Christians and Jews at the time!! But he SAW still gave them protection and freedom to adhere to their religions.
Steyn
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Because Injeel (original form of bible) is from Allah and it is a book of Allah. If you remove the peganism from Christians they're not different than Muslims. Holy Quran calls them book of people and tell them to cease and desist from the lies they've added to their books. It doesn't congratulate them on their lies Nauzbillah.
I don't have a problem with Christmas just like i give zero fucks about Ganesha Chirtuti. Celebrate and kiss idols all you want.
The problem is our CHIEF of army staff going to their celebration and cutting cake and saying happy Shirk, happy associating lies to Allah (swt) Nauzbillah . Happy trying to destroy the character of Jesus Christ (AS) Nauzbillah. I feel dirty just saying what they are happy to do and celebrate it and then Muslims want to join in that!
If the Chief of army stuff calls himself a Christian today, there would be no issue.
I am friends with a lot of Christians and they've wished, NO, shoved merry Christmas to me. I ignored all that shit and talked about something else.
They're still my friends.
If someone thinks cutitng cake or fornicating with a Christian will please them,they're a moron of the highest calibre.
Anyway, i have done my job of educating and stopping from evil, if you've a problem. On the day of judgement argue with Allah and Prophet Muhammad (saww) about how it is intolerance and extremism and you were just spreading harmony.
I have no interest in doing Shirk Nauzbillah.
Truth matters
MPA (400+ posts)
crankthskunk
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
So you think, just taking part in their celebration for harmony is a shirk!!! Did anywhere anyone taking part said that "God is three in one!! Did anyone said that Jesus is "Son of God"!!
Just cutting a cake with them and wishing them well is not endorsing their beliefs.
Tell me Prophet SAW didn't interacted with Jews and Christians!!!!
Do you deny that the trinity was well established at the time and the bible was corrupted!! Quran mentions it in many places. Did it not!!! So corruption of the Bible was well established, the trinity was well established, the lies of "trinity" were well established and were part of the official bible. Thus, all you were objecting was well established.
There is and was no "Gospel according to Isa As". Hence it was very clear the revelations to Prophet Isa As was already lost and most probably none or very little of it is part of the present bible." But Quran still called them people of the book. They were people of the book of existing Bible, not what was revealed to Prophet Isa As. But in Quran Allah SWT declared that Bible contains some what was revealed to the Prophets. It is not necessarily to Isa As but to some earlier prophets. Remember the Bible also have older revelations too revealed to earlier prophets.
Anyway it is a complicated matter.
I am not favoring that you support "Shirk". But I am saying we leave those who are performing the "Shirk" to their devices. There is plenty of tableeq available, if Allah SWT grant them wisdom, they can find out the truth.
Giving protection and freedom does not open the door for Muslims to take part in their shirk celebrations.
O Muslims! The Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam said: "You will imitate the nations before you very closely to the extent that if they went into a lizard's hole, you would enter it as well” his companions, may Allaah be pleased with them, inquired: “(Do you mean) the Jews and Christians, O Messenger of Allaah?” He sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam replied: "Who else?” (Bukhaari & Muslim).
crankthskunk
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Nobody endorsed their Shirk!!! If someone did I would have been against him/them.
Interacting with them is not a problem. Prophet SAW interacted with them despite full knowledge of their Shirk, their efforts to change the Word of God. Creating false beliefs of "trinity" etc.
I am sure none of those who went to take part in the celebration have endorsed their beliefs.
I am not in favor of such beliefs. When I was younger, I used to fix meetings with Christian clergy to discuss and talk about the corruption in the Bible and interpolation of these false beliefs. I am well aware who and how introduced different false beliefs in Christianity.
The cake was the symbol of their joy of the birth of son of God
Steyn
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Brother, how can you confuse interacting with celebrating or congratulating them on their wrong festivals?.
The issue is you and many Muslims think Christmas is celebrating their love for Jesus(AS) but that's not it. Even atheists celebrate it which doesn't make sense right?
Read this from Wikipedia.
Moreover, for Christians, the belief that God came into the world in the form of man to atone for the sins of humanity, rather than the exact birth date, is considered to be the primary purpose in celebrating Christmas.
Astaghfirullah, do you not see anything wrong with it?
Let me give another example.
If you saw your Chief of army staff cutting cake with Hindus who were celebrating Ganesha Chitruti (a festival making idols etc), or Maha Shivatri for harmony. Would you encourage it and think it is okay?
Christmas is no different than Maha Shivatri. Don't let the colors fool you, the celebration is of something else.
This has nothing to do with interacting. You interact with a woman, would you wear clothes and act like her to show harmony?
Also why just Christmas then? Why not celebrate thanksgiving, baptism, Sunday church, Hindu festivals? Why not celebrate and congratulate every minority in Pakistan festivals otherwise we cannot show harmony or tolerance.
Brilliant argument
