Davis case: updates thread
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- america american terrorist americans assets barred from black water cia cia taliban connection fleeing pakistan ghulam loog is linked to isi jaag pakistan lahore musharraf dictator nato nuclear pakistan pentagon policy raymond allen davis raymond davis rymond davis terrorism terrorism in pakistan terrorists three more unfair war on islam wow
tiger54
MPA (400+ posts)
Re: US threatens to expel Pakistan Ambassador Haqqani !!!
my father will not rob and kill someone :) now dont try to get personal it just shows what family u belong to!
my father will not rob and kill someone :) now dont try to get personal it just shows what family u belong to!
Re: US threatens to expel Pakistan Ambassador Haqqani !!!
Pleas of self-defence can not be used against the internal security of the host country which a diplomat is bound to respect under the viana convention.
The culprit must be tried separately for his suspicious activities and undiplomatic presence at the crime scene.
He must be interrogated on his true identity and the identity of those whom he called for his emergency help.
Results of a fair and impartial investigation may be placed before the court with the accused having his full right of defence.
Self-defence is a legal issue which must be determined in a court of law.
Pleas of self-defence can not be used against the internal security of the host country which a diplomat is bound to respect under the viana convention.
The culprit must be tried separately for his suspicious activities and undiplomatic presence at the crime scene.
He must be interrogated on his true identity and the identity of those whom he called for his emergency help.
Results of a fair and impartial investigation may be placed before the court with the accused having his full right of defence.
Self-defence is a legal issue which must be determined in a court of law.
ourpakistan
MPA (400+ posts)
Re: US threatens to expel Pakistan Ambassador Haqqani !!!
So what, USA still needs Pakistan for many good reasons. One of them is war against terror, and we have arrested one of the terrorist with live action.
So what, USA still needs Pakistan for many good reasons. One of them is war against terror, and we have arrested one of the terrorist with live action.
digitalzygot
Senator (1k+ posts)
Re: US threatens to expel Pakistan Ambassador Haqqani !!!
Do it US plzzzzzzzzzzz do us a favour
Do it US plzzzzzzzzzzz do us a favour
Wadaich
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Re: US threatens to expel Pakistan Ambassador Haqqani !!!
اھلا و سہلا مرحبا
حوشی سے مر نہ جاتے اگر اعتبار ہوتا
حوشی سے مر نہ جاتے اگر اعتبار ہوتا
Re: US threatens to expel Pakistan Ambassador Haqqani !!!
Stop braging , If Pakistan just backs out , from which route will US and UN will get supplies in Afghanistan?
secondly ,
Pakistan needs aid and loans only due to CORRUPTION.
Stop braging , If Pakistan just backs out , from which route will US and UN will get supplies in Afghanistan?
secondly ,
Pakistan needs aid and loans only due to CORRUPTION.
canadian
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: US threatens to expel Pakistan Ambassador Haqqani !!!
There lies the problem.If you keep on borrowing money from them you loose your sovereignty.You no longer remain a free Country. I can clearly see their nasty and threatining attitude in this matter.If we donot take charge of our destiny ourselves this cancer will keep on creeping and eventually it will be fatal.How we can do it ?? It's upto those politicans who are at the helm to find a solution.However,ultimate responsibility lie with those who elect them.If citizens of the Country do not understand this then it is a murder/suicide pact.
There lies the problem.If you keep on borrowing money from them you loose your sovereignty.You no longer remain a free Country. I can clearly see their nasty and threatining attitude in this matter.If we donot take charge of our destiny ourselves this cancer will keep on creeping and eventually it will be fatal.How we can do it ?? It's upto those politicans who are at the helm to find a solution.However,ultimate responsibility lie with those who elect them.If citizens of the Country do not understand this then it is a murder/suicide pact.
vicahmed99
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: US threatens to expel Pakistan Ambassador Haqqani !!!
They can't expel Haqqani bcuz he's american (bloody cheater).
They can't expel Haqqani bcuz he's american (bloody cheater).
canadian
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: US threatens to expel Pakistan Ambassador Haqqani !!!
Sovereignty over servitude — II
By Christine Fair
Published: February 9, 2011
The writer is an assistant professor at Georgetown University and an expert on South Asian political and military affairs
The roads and ports, and other infrastructure that the Chinese are building in Pakistan principally benefit China. Pakistanis are an afterthought. The Chinese obtain contracts on favourable and profitable investment terms, use their own employees, and contribute little to the local economy, ultimately to build projects which facilitate the movement and sale of cheap (but also dangerous and poorly crafted) Chinese goods and products into and through Pakistan.
It is a sad fact that China uses Pakistan for its foreign policy aims as well. It provides Pakistan nuclear assistance and large amounts of military assistance to purchase sub-par military platforms in hopes of sustaining Pakistan’s anti-status quo policy towards India. By encouraging Pakistani adventurism towards India, Beijing hopes that India’s massive defence modernisation and status of forces remain focused upon Pakistan, not China. China wants to sustain the animosity between India and Pakistan, but it certainly does not want an actual conflict to ensue as it would then be forced to show its hand again — by not supporting Pakistan in such a conflict.
What about Saudi Arabia? The increasingly broke US citizens provided more assistance to Pakistan’s flood victims than Pakistan’s Islamic, oil-tycoon brethren in Saudi Arabia. While the US government has not figured out how to give aid in a way that minimises corruption and maximises benefit, Pakistanis should note that at least America tries to do so in contrast to Saudi Arabia, which simply abdicates.
Saudi Arabia does fund madrassas, albeit of a highly sectarian variety. Yet, Pakistan does not need more madrassas. In fact, the educational market shows that Pakistani interest in madrassa education is stagnant, while interest in private schooling is expanding. Unfortunately, those madrassas and Islamic institutions that Saudi Arabia does support have contributed to a bloody sectarian divide in Pakistan that has killed far more innocent Pakistanis than the inaccurately reviled US drone programme.
In short, Saudi Arabia, too, uses Pakistan to isolate Shia Iran and to promote the dominance of Wahhabism over other Sunni maslaks and over all Shia maslaks. Pakistan has paid a bloody price for Saudi Arabia’s assistance.
There is no such thing as ‘friends’ in international relations. Any country will help Pakistan if it expects that doing so will advance its interests, not necessarily those of Pakistan and its citizenry. Pakistan will never be free from the dictates of donors until it raises its own revenue from its own domestic resources.
There is another important reason why all Pakistanis should pay local and federal taxes according to their means: It is the bond that ties the governed to the government. When the state extracts taxes from its citizenry, the citizens demand services in return. When the government fails to perform at either local or federal levels, the citizens have the opportunity to vote the miscreants out of office. The incoming elected officials learn, over the course of several electoral cycles, to be responsive to the voters. Within constitutional democracies, payment of taxes is the most important mechanism by which citizens exert control over their government.
If Pakistanis genuinely want to toss off the yoke of financial servitude and gain a genuine stake in their government, they should stop howling at the US government. Instead, the street power mobilised to support a flawed law and a murderer should be redirected to policy issues that are critical to the state’s survival. And rest assured, financial sovereignty is one such issue.
Published in The Express Tribune, February 10th, 2011.
Sovereignty over servitude — II
By Christine Fair
Published: February 9, 2011
The writer is an assistant professor at Georgetown University and an expert on South Asian political and military affairs
The roads and ports, and other infrastructure that the Chinese are building in Pakistan principally benefit China. Pakistanis are an afterthought. The Chinese obtain contracts on favourable and profitable investment terms, use their own employees, and contribute little to the local economy, ultimately to build projects which facilitate the movement and sale of cheap (but also dangerous and poorly crafted) Chinese goods and products into and through Pakistan.
It is a sad fact that China uses Pakistan for its foreign policy aims as well. It provides Pakistan nuclear assistance and large amounts of military assistance to purchase sub-par military platforms in hopes of sustaining Pakistan’s anti-status quo policy towards India. By encouraging Pakistani adventurism towards India, Beijing hopes that India’s massive defence modernisation and status of forces remain focused upon Pakistan, not China. China wants to sustain the animosity between India and Pakistan, but it certainly does not want an actual conflict to ensue as it would then be forced to show its hand again — by not supporting Pakistan in such a conflict.
What about Saudi Arabia? The increasingly broke US citizens provided more assistance to Pakistan’s flood victims than Pakistan’s Islamic, oil-tycoon brethren in Saudi Arabia. While the US government has not figured out how to give aid in a way that minimises corruption and maximises benefit, Pakistanis should note that at least America tries to do so in contrast to Saudi Arabia, which simply abdicates.
Saudi Arabia does fund madrassas, albeit of a highly sectarian variety. Yet, Pakistan does not need more madrassas. In fact, the educational market shows that Pakistani interest in madrassa education is stagnant, while interest in private schooling is expanding. Unfortunately, those madrassas and Islamic institutions that Saudi Arabia does support have contributed to a bloody sectarian divide in Pakistan that has killed far more innocent Pakistanis than the inaccurately reviled US drone programme.
In short, Saudi Arabia, too, uses Pakistan to isolate Shia Iran and to promote the dominance of Wahhabism over other Sunni maslaks and over all Shia maslaks. Pakistan has paid a bloody price for Saudi Arabia’s assistance.
There is no such thing as ‘friends’ in international relations. Any country will help Pakistan if it expects that doing so will advance its interests, not necessarily those of Pakistan and its citizenry. Pakistan will never be free from the dictates of donors until it raises its own revenue from its own domestic resources.
There is another important reason why all Pakistanis should pay local and federal taxes according to their means: It is the bond that ties the governed to the government. When the state extracts taxes from its citizenry, the citizens demand services in return. When the government fails to perform at either local or federal levels, the citizens have the opportunity to vote the miscreants out of office. The incoming elected officials learn, over the course of several electoral cycles, to be responsive to the voters. Within constitutional democracies, payment of taxes is the most important mechanism by which citizens exert control over their government.
If Pakistanis genuinely want to toss off the yoke of financial servitude and gain a genuine stake in their government, they should stop howling at the US government. Instead, the street power mobilised to support a flawed law and a murderer should be redirected to policy issues that are critical to the state’s survival. And rest assured, financial sovereignty is one such issue.
Published in The Express Tribune, February 10th, 2011.
Raaz
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Re: US threatens to expel Pakistan Ambassador Haqqani !!!
So you r afraid of US like Mush.
Better that u go to London and live with him. London is best place of cowards ......
So you r afraid of US like Mush.
Better that u go to London and live with him. London is best place of cowards ......
Raaz
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Re: US threatens to expel Pakistan Ambassador Haqqani !!!
@ Tiger 54 , brother u r like this....just joking , but looks true.
ایک آدمی کسی کے گھر گیا ، دروازہ کھٹکھٹایا ، اندر سے کسی نے پوچھا کون ہے ؟
باہر والے نے بتایا ، ٹائگر ٥٤ ، والد کا نام شیر ١٥٤ ، پیر کا نام مش خان ٩-٢-١١
اندر والے لے کہا اندر آ جاؤ
ٹائگر ٥٤ نے کہا ، دروازے پر کتا بیٹھا ہے -
U only name tiger
@ Tiger 54 , brother u r like this....just joking , but looks true.
ایک آدمی کسی کے گھر گیا ، دروازہ کھٹکھٹایا ، اندر سے کسی نے پوچھا کون ہے ؟
باہر والے نے بتایا ، ٹائگر ٥٤ ، والد کا نام شیر ١٥٤ ، پیر کا نام مش خان ٩-٢-١١
اندر والے لے کہا اندر آ جاؤ
ٹائگر ٥٤ نے کہا ، دروازے پر کتا بیٹھا ہے -
U only name tiger
canadian
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: US threatens to expel Pakistan Ambassador Haqqani !!!
What a mess !! Imagine this is what they did to my beloved Country ? Ya Bari Taala In sub Ko Jahanam Wasil Ker.Aamen
What a mess !! Imagine this is what they did to my beloved Country ? Ya Bari Taala In sub Ko Jahanam Wasil Ker.Aamen
canadian
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: US threatens to expel Pakistan Ambassador Haqqani !!!
By[FONT=Arial,] Dr. Mahjabeen Islam[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]
Toledo, Ohio [/FONT]
By[FONT=Arial,] Dr. Mahjabeen Islam[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]
Toledo, Ohio [/FONT]
[SIZE=+3][/SIZE]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]February 11, 2011[/FONT]
Mighty Dichotomy
Indecisiveness at a personal level can have serious consequences, but waffling on the world stage only serves to expose the dichotomy that the United States has consistently employed in its management of foreign affairs.
Stunned by Raymond Davis’ brazen killing of two Pakistanis in Lahore last week, the State Department spokesman expressed condolences and full cooperation with the Pakistan government in the investigation of the tragedy. And yet in the space of twenty-four hours repeated demands were made to hand over Davis to the US with the claim that he enjoyed diplomatic immunity. And the bravado that Pakistan was violating the Vienna Convention detailing diplomatic immunity.
Raymond Davis it appears does not have a diplomatic passport; he is just a contractor employed with Hyperion a Florida company. The other individual that raced to his rescue and killed an innocent pedestrian has not been named or prosecuted. Even if Davis was an employee of the US consulate and enjoyed diplomatic immunity he must be prosecuted for murder under Pakistan’s law. The Vienna Convention assumes diplomats going to represent their nations not running Rambo style, armed and dangerous in other countries. It thus does not address murderous inclinations of supposed diplomats.
The hubris of the sole super power of the world presents itself in what has now become a nauseating display of “we make the rules and break them at will”. The Vienna Convention specifically mentions diplomatic immunity from baggage and personal search. Indian ambassador Meera Shankar traveling in Mississippi in December 2010 did not even trip the metal detector but was singled out for a pat-down, probably due to her wearing a sari. She mentioned her diplomatic immunity and presented her passport to the airport employee who seemed amused at her claim of diplomatic immunity. This usurpation of immunity is not new for diplomats visiting the United States and the fig-leaf of the war on terror is used for this illegality.
The situation gets murkier when US Ambassador to Pakistan Cameron Munter telephones Nawaz Sharif about the Davis situation. Is the US dangling the proverbial carrot to him? What the Pakistan government does with the Davis situation will set the tone for the future. If he is handed over to the US, the message is loud and clear: do come and kill our people whenever and for whatever.
This same curious indecisiveness was on display in the early days of the Egyptian crisis. President Obama and his cabinet while watching the rapidly changing situation unfold sent out sitting-on-the-fence generic messages. Despite 9/11 the average American is still not conversant with global issues; they are more bogged down with the day to day, the foreclosures, high unemployment and the health care crisis with pressure to make both ends meet, ends that have become more and more inelastic.
White House spokesmen talked of being “on the right side of history”. One wonders where principle went. This “right side of history” in the early days of the crisis was uncertain, there were government spokesmen who spoke of “managed change” in Egypt and an “evolution rather than a revolution”. Mubarak they thought might still stay.
There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq but America’s military might was unleashed on Iraq with the additional rationalization of exporting democracy to it. So why so circumspect now that Egypt’s people want democracy? Dictators are so easy to manipulate - no messy parliaments and representation of the people, just a single tart phone call and the question “are you with us or against us” and the job is done.
Sen. John Kerry was the only legislator that urged Hosni Mubarak to resign in the early days of the crisis. Even Sen. John McCain was surprising in wanting the US to back the will of the people rather than their puppet Mubarak. He was concerned that the revolt might acquire the tones of the Tiananmen massacre. All his murmurings seemed wonderful and committed, unlike the US government at that point, until the interviewer asked him his greatest concern. The regular person would be concerned with the loss of life and the hope that it be minimized, but McCain’s concern was of Islamists getting power in Egypt, even though it is very evident that this is a secular revolt and the Muslim Brotherhood though part of the conversation does not have a majority. He also used the absurd “we must be on the right side of history” statement.
Now that the situation has acquired a no-turning-back quality in Egypt with Mubarak’s resignation as the main demand has Secretary of State Hillary Clinton come out with more Egyptian-people oriented statements.
America ’s posturing is evident in the Raymond Davis/Pakistan situation and the revolt in Egypt. Egyptians do not want any part of America interfering in their affairs and will arrange an interim government, rewrite the constitution and hold elections. We, on the other hand had no hesitation in joining the war on terror in one 3 a.m. phone call, opening our skies to let the drones rain down, allow foreigners to drive darkened SUVs and resist searches, and now let Americans terrorise and murder our people with impunity. The Egyptians will control their destiny. Pakistan’s was gifted to America ten years ago.
( Mahjabeen Islam is a family physician, addictionist and columnist. Email: [email protected])
Mighty Dichotomy
Indecisiveness at a personal level can have serious consequences, but waffling on the world stage only serves to expose the dichotomy that the United States has consistently employed in its management of foreign affairs.
Stunned by Raymond Davis’ brazen killing of two Pakistanis in Lahore last week, the State Department spokesman expressed condolences and full cooperation with the Pakistan government in the investigation of the tragedy. And yet in the space of twenty-four hours repeated demands were made to hand over Davis to the US with the claim that he enjoyed diplomatic immunity. And the bravado that Pakistan was violating the Vienna Convention detailing diplomatic immunity.
Raymond Davis it appears does not have a diplomatic passport; he is just a contractor employed with Hyperion a Florida company. The other individual that raced to his rescue and killed an innocent pedestrian has not been named or prosecuted. Even if Davis was an employee of the US consulate and enjoyed diplomatic immunity he must be prosecuted for murder under Pakistan’s law. The Vienna Convention assumes diplomats going to represent their nations not running Rambo style, armed and dangerous in other countries. It thus does not address murderous inclinations of supposed diplomats.
The hubris of the sole super power of the world presents itself in what has now become a nauseating display of “we make the rules and break them at will”. The Vienna Convention specifically mentions diplomatic immunity from baggage and personal search. Indian ambassador Meera Shankar traveling in Mississippi in December 2010 did not even trip the metal detector but was singled out for a pat-down, probably due to her wearing a sari. She mentioned her diplomatic immunity and presented her passport to the airport employee who seemed amused at her claim of diplomatic immunity. This usurpation of immunity is not new for diplomats visiting the United States and the fig-leaf of the war on terror is used for this illegality.
The situation gets murkier when US Ambassador to Pakistan Cameron Munter telephones Nawaz Sharif about the Davis situation. Is the US dangling the proverbial carrot to him? What the Pakistan government does with the Davis situation will set the tone for the future. If he is handed over to the US, the message is loud and clear: do come and kill our people whenever and for whatever.
This same curious indecisiveness was on display in the early days of the Egyptian crisis. President Obama and his cabinet while watching the rapidly changing situation unfold sent out sitting-on-the-fence generic messages. Despite 9/11 the average American is still not conversant with global issues; they are more bogged down with the day to day, the foreclosures, high unemployment and the health care crisis with pressure to make both ends meet, ends that have become more and more inelastic.
White House spokesmen talked of being “on the right side of history”. One wonders where principle went. This “right side of history” in the early days of the crisis was uncertain, there were government spokesmen who spoke of “managed change” in Egypt and an “evolution rather than a revolution”. Mubarak they thought might still stay.
There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq but America’s military might was unleashed on Iraq with the additional rationalization of exporting democracy to it. So why so circumspect now that Egypt’s people want democracy? Dictators are so easy to manipulate - no messy parliaments and representation of the people, just a single tart phone call and the question “are you with us or against us” and the job is done.
Sen. John Kerry was the only legislator that urged Hosni Mubarak to resign in the early days of the crisis. Even Sen. John McCain was surprising in wanting the US to back the will of the people rather than their puppet Mubarak. He was concerned that the revolt might acquire the tones of the Tiananmen massacre. All his murmurings seemed wonderful and committed, unlike the US government at that point, until the interviewer asked him his greatest concern. The regular person would be concerned with the loss of life and the hope that it be minimized, but McCain’s concern was of Islamists getting power in Egypt, even though it is very evident that this is a secular revolt and the Muslim Brotherhood though part of the conversation does not have a majority. He also used the absurd “we must be on the right side of history” statement.
Now that the situation has acquired a no-turning-back quality in Egypt with Mubarak’s resignation as the main demand has Secretary of State Hillary Clinton come out with more Egyptian-people oriented statements.
America ’s posturing is evident in the Raymond Davis/Pakistan situation and the revolt in Egypt. Egyptians do not want any part of America interfering in their affairs and will arrange an interim government, rewrite the constitution and hold elections. We, on the other hand had no hesitation in joining the war on terror in one 3 a.m. phone call, opening our skies to let the drones rain down, allow foreigners to drive darkened SUVs and resist searches, and now let Americans terrorise and murder our people with impunity. The Egyptians will control their destiny. Pakistan’s was gifted to America ten years ago.
( Mahjabeen Islam is a family physician, addictionist and columnist. Email: [email protected])
Classified
Senator (1k+ posts)
alibaba222
Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: Raymond Davis links with lashkar e jhangvi
Allah pak hamy firqa wariat say nikaly or sahee musalman banye Hazrat Abu baker(R.A) Hazrat Umar (R.A) Hazrat Usman (R.A) Hazrat Ali (R.A) say mohbat naseeb farmaye, or in sab ke talemat per amal kerny ke tufeeq ata farmaye
Allah pak hamy firqa wariat say nikaly or sahee musalman banye Hazrat Abu baker(R.A) Hazrat Umar (R.A) Hazrat Usman (R.A) Hazrat Ali (R.A) say mohbat naseeb farmaye, or in sab ke talemat per amal kerny ke tufeeq ata farmaye
Classified
Senator (1k+ posts)
Re: Raymond Davis links with lashkar e jhangvi
