Religion Ideology and State Affairs

Keepinformed

Siasat.pk - Blogger
The debate is strong now days on whether Pakistan should be secular when it comes to running state affairs or make its laws based purely on Islam.

My point of view is

When you make religion as the basis running political and civil affairs of a nation, you tend to bind people with limited thought process.

In Christianity we have two main sects. Catholics who are the hardliners and Protestants who have softer stance of living ones life. There might be more school of thoughts and practice but I am not aware of this.

In Judaism there are many sects also mainly Orthodox, Conservative, Recontructionalist, Neolog and at least a few others. There are hardliners and then there are practicing Jews that take the soft approach towards protecting their faith.

Similarly in Islam there Shias and Sunnis school of thoughts. There are hardliners in both sects. There other versions like Wahabism (saudia arabia) and many others. Within all school of thoughts there are people that take the hardcore approach to protect their faith and then there are people who do disinvite violence.

In Hinduism there are many Gods and people approaching religious views both from a gun or candle.

-------------------------
Now take this scenario
-------------------------

If you a piece of land perhaps a remote island and put Jews, Muslims, Christians, Hindus and make sure all sects in individual religions are covered, how do you expect to run a functioning government with a religous ideology of running affairs of the Island.

Do you put in Christainity? If yes then which Protestant or Catholic? What about Muslims, Hindus and Jews?

Do you put in Judism? If yes then which Orthodox or Progressive? What about Muslims, Hindus and Christians?

Do you put in Islam? If yes then which Shia, Sunni or Wahibist? What about Hindus, Christians and Jews?

Do you put in Hinduism? If yes then which one hardliners or soft approachers? What about Muslims, Christians, Jews and Christians?


You see when you try to run the day to day lives of human beings based on religion you are bound to create trouble.

---------------------------------------
Secularism gives respect to religion
---------------------------------------

When you force your ideology on to others you are going get revolt but however if you give freedom to people to learn and choose the path of their own, they are going to respect their own religion and others too.

Turkey was secularized which gave respect to Islam and other religions. People were free to actually study religion. What happened? The good aspects of running civilian aspects of Islamic culture were slowly adopted by the turkish people. It only happened when you did NOT force them to adopt but gave them to freedom to go choose.

Lets talk about India. There are more Muslims living there. There are more hindus in India that know about Islam then there are Pakistanis living in Pakistan simply because of freedom of free research. There are hardly any Pakistanis that know about Hinduism and its culture.

If you secularize Pakistan, it is actually going to make it more Islamic and in a true way. People will not be forced to believe in a particular ideology and this way people will learn to respect not only other's religious beliefs but respect and learn their own religion too.

You cannot fight an ideology with force. If you could taliban would have been long gone.

The reason you can spread Islam in the west and many people are converting is not because you are great preachers but you have the freedom to do so and people there are free to research and then choose for themselves.

-----------

The solution of Pakistan if you want to make it a true progressive Islamic state is to make it secular. When the force is gone then people would start respecting Shias, Sunnis, Wahabists, Christians, Hindus and eventually with time take peaceful Islamic social values and practically implement it in their day to day lives.

When you use deliberate force to spread Ideologies you create drama, you create chaos, you create death and destruction.

Thank you.

 
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Veila Mast

Senator (1k+ posts)
Now that is your problem that YOU ARE ORTHODOX!

World is changing my dear!

Wake up!

People are becoming more and more aware and have started to unwind themselves.



Your so called man made constitution is taking last breathe!

Patience, just a little time is left my dear!
 

KhanHaripur

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
So now a nonmuslim ( Kafir ) would teach us how to run Islamic Republic Of Pakistan.
The debate is strong now days on whether Pakistan should be secular when it comes to running state affairs or make its laws based purely on Islam.

My point of view is

When you make religion as the basis running political and civil affairs of a nation, you tend to bind people with limited thought process.

In Christianity we have two main sects. Catholics who are the hardliners and Protestants who have softer stance of living ones life. There might be more school of thoughts and practice but I am not aware of this.

In Judaism there are many sects also mainly Orthodox, Conservative, Recontructionalist, Neolog and at least a few others. There are hardliners and then there are practicing Jews that take the soft approach towards protecting their faith.

Similarly in Islam there Shias and Sunnis school of thoughts. There are hardliners in both sects. There other versions like Wahabism (saudia arabia) and many others. Within all school of thoughts there are people that take the hardcore approach to protect their faith and then there are people who do disinvite violence.

In Hinduism there are many Gods and people approaching religious views both from a gun or candle.

-------------------------
Now take this scenario
-------------------------

If you a piece of land perhaps a remote island and put Jews, Muslims, Christians, Hindus and make sure all sects in individual religions are covered, how do you expect to run a functioning government with a religous ideology of running affairs of the Island.

Do you put in Christainity? If yes then which Protestant or Catholic? What about Muslims, Hindus and Jews?

Do you put in Judism? If yes then which Orthodox or Progressive? What about Muslims, Hindus and Christians?

Do you put in Islam? If yes then which Shia, Sunni or Wahibist? What about Hindus, Christians and Jews?

Do you put in Hinduism? If yes then which one hardliners or soft approachers? What about Muslims, Christians, Jews and Christians?


You see when you try to run the day to day lives of human beings based on religion you are bound to create trouble.

---------------------------------------
Secularism gives respect to religion
---------------------------------------

When you force your ideology on to others you are going get revolt but however if you give freedom to people to learn and choose the path of their own, they are going to respect their own religion and others too.

Turkey was secularized which gave respect to Islam and other religions. People were free to actually study religion. What happened? The good aspects of running civilian aspects of Islamic culture were slowly adopted by the turkish people. It only happened when you did NOT force them to adopt but gave them to freedom to go choose.

Lets talk about India. There are more Muslims living there. There are more hindus in India that know about Islam then there are Pakistanis living in Pakistan simply because of freedom of free research. There are hardly any Pakistanis that know about Hinduism and its culture.

If you secularize Pakistan, it is actually going to make it more Islamic and in a true way. People will not be forced to believe in a particular ideology and this way people will learn to respect not only other's religious beliefs but respect and learn their own religion too.

You cannot fight an ideology with force. If you could taliban would have been long gone.

The reason you can spread Islam in the west and many people are converting is not because you are great preachers but you have the freedom to do so and people there are free to research and then choose for themselves.

-----------

The solution of Pakistan if you want to make it a true progressive Islamic state is to make it secular. When the force is gone then people would start respecting Shias, Sunnis, Wahabists, Christians, Hindus and eventually with time take peaceful Islamic social values and practically implement it in their day to day lives.

When you use deliberate force to spread Ideologies you create drama, you create chaos, you create death and destruction.

Thank you.

 

atensari

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم

The solution of Pakistan if you want to make it a true progressive Islamic state is to make it secular. When the force is gone then people would start respecting Shias, Sunnis, Wahabists, Christians, Hindus and eventually with time take peaceful Islamic social values and practically implement it in their day to day lives.

When you use deliberate force to spread Ideologies you create drama, you create chaos, you create death and destruction.

Thank you.

:lol::lol:[hilar]:13:
There can be either light or darkness both can not coexist with each and other.
 

Keepinformed

Siasat.pk - Blogger
So now a nonmuslim ( Kafir ) would teach us how to run Islamic Republic Of Pakistan.

Keeping aside on whether I am a Muslim, Christian, Jew, Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist, Atheist, Mormon, Scientoligist etc, You my sir are the nothing more than a hypocrite who lives in London, UK in a NON Muslim but SECULAR state. This nation has given YOU the right to spread Islam. This nation has given you food, shelter and possibly the ability to earn a living, have a family etc. This is EXACTLY my point. Secular states respect people and religion and do not impose them. If Brits started imposing hardcore Christianity on to you just like you do with Islam then you would not be able to live in the UK for one day.

You should be the first one to support secularism because you live and breath it every day.

Stop trying to deceive Allah. You are not smart enough.

Have respect for other religions and accept people as they are just like they accept you as you are.

Open your mind and for once think and examine things around using logic.
 
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SaadKnight

Senator (1k+ posts)
جس ملک کو اسلام کے نام پر اللہ سے مانگا اس ملک میں اگر اسلامی نظام قائم نہ ہوا تو اللہ بہت سخت سزا دیگا ہمیں، سیکولر نظام اللہ سے مانگی ہوئی زمین میں قائم نیہں ہونا چاہیے، کیونکہ اس کی بہت سخت سزا ہوگی
یہ چیز منافقت کے زمرے میں آتی ہے

 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Islam v religion and secularism (why)

http://www.aboutquran.com/Islam.htm




79 Surah an Nazi'at Ayah 01 To 05
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TqPVfiWabw&feature=related
79 Surah an Nazi'at Ayah 06 To 26
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hheis2gHcSk&feature=related



83 Surah at Tatfif Ayah 1 To 13
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvQ_a1Q5xOI&feature=related


73 Surah al-Muzzammil Ayah 01 To 09
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyCRUQLFLHw&feature=related

http://www.parwez.tv

http://www.aboutquran.com/ba/ba.htm



Secularism is very old as old as religion whereby kings ruled countries and their mullahs ruled mind of people. Both groups ever since have been using and abusing humanity as much as they could.
 
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mehwish_ali

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
میرے لیے ہر نظام قابل قبول ہے اگر وہ بنیاد انسانی حقوق کی ضمانت دے (جو فی الحال فقط سیکولر نظام میں نظر آتی ہیں)۔

اسلام میں حقوق کے دو طرح کے ہیں۔

۔ حقوق اللہ (عبادات)

۔ حقوق الناس (معاملات)

حقوق اللہ براہ راست معاملہ ہے بندے اور اللہ کے درمیان۔ شریعت کے اس حصے میں تبدیلی نہیں، چنانچہ نماز، روزہ اللہ "عبادات" کا جو طریقہ بیان ہو گیا ہے، وہ وہی رہے گا۔

جبکہ حقوق الناس وہ ہیں جو کہ دو بندوں کے مابین "معاملات" پر مشتمل ہیں یا پھر ریاست کی سطح پر "معاملات" پر مشتمل ہیں۔ ان میں وقت اور حالات کے مطابق تبدیلی ہے۔ افسوس کہ ہمارا مذہبی طبقہ ان معاملات میں "جمود" کا قائل ہے۔

ریاست کی سطح پر یہ "معاملات" دو ریاستوں میں "معاہدے" کی صورت میں طے پاتے ہیں، یا پھر عالمی سطح پر "معاہدوں" کی صورت میں طے پاتے ہیں اور ان "معاہدوں" کو شریعت کے بائی ڈیفالٹ معاملاتی اصولوں پر فوقیت حاصل ہوتی ہے۔

اسکی واضح مثال "غلامی" کا خاتمہ ہے۔

اسلام میں غلامی بالکل جائز تھی، مگر جب پچھلی صدی میں تمام ممالک نے بیٹھ کر "معاہدہ" کیا تو پھر اسے شریعت کے بائی ڈیفالٹ اصول پر فوقیت حاصل ہو گئی اور اسلامی ممالک نے بھی غلامی کو ختم کر دیا۔

اگر آج عالمی سطح پر یہ معاہدہ ہے کہ اقلیتوں کو مکمل مذہبی آزادی ہو گی اور انہیں تبلیغ کرنے کی اجازت ہو گی، تو پھر اس اصول کو اسلامی ممالک کو بھی لاگو کرنا پڑے گا۔

اسلامی ممالک "شریعت" کے نام پر یہ ڈبل سٹینڈرڈز زیادہ دیر تک نہیں کھیل سکتے کہ خود مسلمانوں کو تو یورپ و دنیا میں تبلیغ کی مکمل اجازت ہو، مگر جب اسلامی ممالک کی بات آئے تو اقلیتیوں پر تبلیغ کرنے کی پابندی لگا دیں اور اس تبلیغ کے نتیجے میں اگر کوئی مسلمان اپنا مذہب تبدیل کرنا چاہے تو اس پر مرتد کا فتوی لگا کر اسے قتل کر دیں۔


"انصاف"

انصاف پر معاشرہ اور دنیا قائم رہ سکتی ہے، ڈبل سٹینڈرڈز پر نہیں۔

اس ڈبل سٹینڈرڈ کو نشانہ بنا کر یورپ میں انتہا پسند مضبوط سے مضبوط تر ہوتے جا رہے ہیں اور نفرتیں پھیلا رہے ہیں۔

جلد یہاں بھِی مسلمانوں کے ساتھ وہی امتیازی سلوک شروع ہو جائے گا اور تبلیغ پر پابندی لگ جائے گی۔

"اسلام تلوار کے زور پر پھیلا"

یہ وہ نئی برین واشنگ ہے جو انتہا پسند ملا حضرات نئی نسل کی کر رہے ہیں۔ پہلے علما کی تحریروں میں ہوتا تھا کہ اسلام تبلیغ سے پھیلا، مگر آج آپ کو تقریروں کے صورت میں مجمع عام سے خطاب کرتے ہوئے مولانا حضرات ملیں گے جو کھل کر کفار کو دھوکہ دینے اور انہیں قتل کرنے اور زبردستی تلوار کے زور پر اسلام کا غلبہ نافذ کرنے کا خطبہ دے رہے ہوں گے۔

 

SaadKnight

Senator (1k+ posts)
میرے لیے ہر نظام قابل قبول ہے اگر وہ بنیاد انسانی حقوق کی ضمانت دے (جو فی الحال فقط سیکولر نظام میں نظر آتی ہیں)۔

اسلام میں حقوق کے دو طرح کے ہیں۔

۔ حقوق اللہ (عبادات)

۔ حقوق الناس (معاملات)

حقوق اللہ براہ راست معاملہ ہے بندے اور اللہ کے درمیان۔ شریعت کے اس حصے میں تبدیلی نہیں، چنانچہ نماز، روزہ اللہ "عبادات" کا جو طریقہ بیان ہو گیا ہے، وہ وہی رہے گا۔

جبکہ حقوق الناس وہ ہیں جو کہ دو بندوں کے مابین "معاملات" پر مشتمل ہیں یا پھر ریاست کی سطح پر "معاملات" پر مشتمل ہیں۔ ان میں وقت اور حالات کے مطابق تبدیلی ہے۔ افسوس کہ ہمارا مذہبی طبقہ ان معاملات میں "جمود" کا قائل ہے۔

ریاست کی سطح پر یہ "معاملات" دو ریاستوں میں "معاہدے" کی صورت میں طے پاتے ہیں، یا پھر عالمی سطح پر "معاہدوں" کی صورت میں طے پاتے ہیں اور ان "معاہدوں" کو شریعت کے بائی ڈیفالٹ معاملاتی اصولوں پر فوقیت حاصل ہوتی ہے۔

اسکی واضح مثال "غلامی" کا خاتمہ ہے۔

اسلام میں غلامی بالکل جائز تھی، مگر جب پچھلی صدی میں تمام ممالک نے بیٹھ کر "معاہدہ" کیا تو پھر اسے شریعت کے بائی ڈیفالٹ اصول پر فوقیت حاصل ہو گئی اور اسلامی ممالک نے بھی غلامی کو ختم کر دیا۔

اگر آج عالمی سطح پر یہ معاہدہ ہے کہ اقلیتوں کو مکمل مذہبی آزادی ہو گی اور انہیں تبلیغ کرنے کی اجازت ہو گی، تو پھر اس اصول کو اسلامی ممالک کو بھی لاگو کرنا پڑے گا۔

اسلامی ممالک "شریعت" کے نام پر یہ ڈبل سٹینڈرڈز زیادہ دیر تک نہیں کھیل سکتے کہ خود مسلمانوں کو تو یورپ و دنیا میں تبلیغ کی مکمل اجازت ہو، مگر جب اسلامی ممالک کی بات آئے تو اقلیتیوں پر تبلیغ کرنے کی پابندی لگا دیں اور اس تبلیغ کے نتیجے میں اگر کوئی مسلمان اپنا مذہب تبدیل کرنا چاہے تو اس پر مرتد کا فتوی لگا کر اسے قتل کر دیں۔


"انصاف"

انصاف پر معاشرہ اور دنیا قائم رہ سکتی ہے، ڈبل سٹینڈرڈز پر نہیں۔

اس ڈبل سٹینڈرڈ کو نشانہ بنا کر یورپ میں انتہا پسند مضبوط سے مضبوط تر ہوتے جا رہے ہیں اور نفرتیں پھیلا رہے ہیں۔

جلد یہاں بھِی مسلمانوں کے ساتھ وہی امتیازی سلوک شروع ہو جائے گا اور تبلیغ پر پابندی لگ جائے گی۔

"اسلام تلوار کے زور پر پھیلا"

یہ وہ نئی برین واشنگ ہے جو انتہا پسند ملا حضرات نئی نسل کی کر رہے ہیں۔ پہلے علما کی تحریروں میں ہوتا تھا کہ اسلام تبلیغ سے پھیلا، مگر آج آپ کو تقریروں کے صورت میں مجمع عام سے خطاب کرتے ہوئے مولانا حضرات ملیں گے جو کھل کر کفار کو دھوکہ دینے اور انہیں قتل کرنے اور زبردستی تلوار کے زور پر اسلام کا غلبہ نافذ کرنے کا خطبہ دے رہے ہوں گے۔

Comments from a member of a pure Secular and Terrorist Black Water Party aka MQM....... :P

The rule is simple, Allah k zameen par Allah ka nizaam jo k quran, hadees (sunnat) aur khilafat-e-rashida se sabit hota hai.

Ham khilafat-e-rashida bahal naheijn kar saktay aaj k dor mein lekin quran, hadees (sunnat) aur khilafat-e-rashida se 1 nizaam zaroor akhz kar saktay hain aaj dunia k halaat ko dekhtay huay.

Is mamlay mein tafseeli behas main phir kisi din naye topic mein post karoon ga.
 

Mughal1

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Islam is not religion it is a rule of law. It is the only rule of law that is based on single standard ie one rule for all living under this roof.

It is based on goals like freedom, justice, fairness, compassion, brotherhood, progress and prosperity for mankind. Anything that does not tally with this concept of islam is not islam but anti islam.

Yes, till we have proper islamic system in place we have to live by any system that is enforced in the world but we must keep on working on spreading the proper idea of islam till we have the support for implementing islam.

Nonmuslims ruling elite and religious elite are also spreading their ideas even by using force in muslim countries beside using their media as well as ours. It is they who are living by double standards because by letting-in in their countries a few million muslims they are destroying their whole countries. Where is sense in that?

They are not looking for spreading their ideas logically and rationally but because they have their war machines. We need to be careful not to betray our trust with Allah and humanity as well as the people of whom we are a part.

I do not expect that because some pakistanis have some life in uk, they should let uk destroy pakistan. It is in our mutual interest that we work for peace on terms that are best.

As for slavery, it is not eliminated because we have political and economic slavery these days. This slavery is part of secular system because secularism is part of democracy which is part of capitalist economic system.

As for slavery in islam, that is a false allegation against islam but yes, ruling elite and their mullahs did have slaves and maids but then were they at all muslims and did they treat muslims any better than slaves? Are they treating muslims any better today?
 

SaadKnight

Senator (1k+ posts)
Islam is not religion it is a rule of law. It is the only rule of law that is based on single standard ie one rule for all living under this roof.

It is based on goals like freedom, justice, fairness, compassion, brotherhood, progress and prosperity for mankind. Anything that does not tally with this concept of islam is not islam but anti islam.

Yes, till we have proper islamic system in place we have to live by any system that is enforced in the world but we must keep on working on spreading the proper idea of islam till we have the support for implementing islam.

Nonmuslims ruling elite and religious elite are also spreading their ideas even by using force in muslim countries beside using their media as well as ours. It is they who are living by double standards because by letting-in in their countries a few million muslims they are destroying their whole countries. Where is sense in that?

They are not looking for spreading their ideas logically and rationally but because they have their war machines. We need to be careful not to betray our trust with Allah and humanity as well as the people of whom we are a part.

I do not expect that because some pakistanis have some life in uk, they should let uk destroy pakistan. It is in our mutual interest that we work for peace on terms that are best.

As for slavery, it is not eliminated because we have political and economic slavery these days. This slavery is part of secular system because secularism is part of democracy which is part of capitalist economic system.

As for slavery in islam, that is a false allegation against islam but yes, ruling elite and their mullahs did have slaves and maids but then were they at all muslims and did they treat muslims any better than slaves? Are they treating muslims any better today?

(bigsmile)(bigsmile)(bigsmile) AAAAAAAAGREEEEEEDD (bigsmile)(bigsmile)(bigsmile)
 

moazzamniaz

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
میرے لیے ہر نظام قابل قبول ہے اگر وہ بنیاد انسانی حقوق کی ضمانت دے (جو فی الحال فقط سیکولر نظام میں نظر آتی ہیں)۔
اسلام میں حقوق کے دو طرح کے ہیں۔
۔ حقوق اللہ (عبادات)
۔ حقوق الناس (معاملات)
حقوق اللہ براہ راست معاملہ ہے بندے اور اللہ کے درمیان۔ شریعت کے اس حصے میں تبدیلی نہیں، چنانچہ نماز، روزہ اللہ "عبادات" کا جو طریقہ بیان ہو گیا ہے، وہ وہی رہے گا۔
جبکہ حقوق الناس وہ ہیں جو کہ دو بندوں کے مابین "معاملات" پر مشتمل ہیں یا پھر ریاست کی سطح پر "معاملات" پر مشتمل ہیں۔ ان میں وقت اور حالات کے مطابق تبدیلی ہے۔ افسوس کہ ہمارا مذہبی طبقہ ان معاملات میں "جمود" کا قائل ہے۔
ریاست کی سطح پر یہ "معاملات" دو ریاستوں میں "معاہدے" کی صورت میں طے پاتے ہیں، یا پھر عالمی سطح پر "معاہدوں" کی صورت میں طے پاتے ہیں اور ان "معاہدوں" کو شریعت کے بائی ڈیفالٹ معاملاتی اصولوں پر فوقیت حاصل ہوتی ہے۔
اسکی واضح مثال "غلامی" کا خاتمہ ہے۔
اسلام میں غلامی بالکل جائز تھی، مگر جب پچھلی صدی میں تمام ممالک نے بیٹھ کر "معاہدہ" کیا تو پھر اسے شریعت کے بائی ڈیفالٹ اصول پر فوقیت حاصل ہو گئی اور اسلامی ممالک نے بھی غلامی کو ختم کر دیا۔
اگر آج عالمی سطح پر یہ معاہدہ ہے کہ اقلیتوں کو مکمل مذہبی آزادی ہو گی اور انہیں تبلیغ کرنے کی اجازت ہو گی، تو پھر اس اصول کو اسلامی ممالک کو بھی لاگو کرنا پڑے گا۔
اسلامی ممالک "شریعت" کے نام پر یہ ڈبل سٹینڈرڈز زیادہ دیر تک نہیں کھیل سکتے کہ خود مسلمانوں کو تو یورپ و دنیا میں تبلیغ کی مکمل اجازت ہو، مگر جب اسلامی ممالک کی بات آئے تو اقلیتیوں پر تبلیغ کرنے کی پابندی لگا دیں اور اس تبلیغ کے نتیجے میں اگر کوئی مسلمان اپنا مذہب تبدیل کرنا چاہے تو اس پر مرتد کا فتوی لگا کر اسے قتل کر دیں۔
"انصاف"
انصاف پر معاشرہ اور دنیا قائم رہ سکتی ہے، ڈبل سٹینڈرڈز پر نہیں۔
اس ڈبل سٹینڈرڈ کو نشانہ بنا کر یورپ میں انتہا پسند مضبوط سے مضبوط تر ہوتے جا رہے ہیں اور نفرتیں پھیلا رہے ہیں۔
جلد یہاں بھِی مسلمانوں کے ساتھ وہی امتیازی سلوک شروع ہو جائے گا اور تبلیغ پر پابندی لگ جائے گی۔
"اسلام تلوار کے زور پر پھیلا"
یہ وہ نئی برین واشنگ ہے جو انتہا پسند ملا حضرات نئی نسل کی کر رہے ہیں۔ پہلے علما کی تحریروں میں ہوتا تھا کہ اسلام تبلیغ سے پھیلا، مگر آج آپ کو تقریروں کے صورت میں مجمع عام سے خطاب کرتے ہوئے مولانا حضرات ملیں گے جو کھل کر کفار کو دھوکہ دینے اور انہیں قتل کرنے اور زبردستی تلوار کے زور پر اسلام کا غلبہ نافذ کرنے کا خطبہ دے رہے ہوں گے۔

:jazak:
ایک ایک بات سے متفق ہوں.ہمارا پرانے ماڈل کا جھوٹا، منافق، فسادی ملا انیسویں صدی کے عیسائی ملا کی طرح جلد ہی ڈائنوسار بننے جا رہا ھے. ہم مسلمانوں نے خود اسکو لگام نہ دی تو باقی دنیا خود یہ کام سرانجام دے گی
 

jimz84

Senator (1k+ posts)
The debate is strong now days on whether Pakistan should be secular when it comes to running state affairs or make its laws based purely on Islam.

My point of view is

When you make religion as the basis running political and civil affairs of a nation, you tend to bind people with limited thought process.

In Christianity we have two main sects. Catholics who are the hardliners and Protestants who have softer stance of living ones life. There might be more school of thoughts and practice but I am not aware of this.

In Judaism there are many sects also mainly Orthodox, Conservative, Recontructionalist, Neolog and at least a few others. There are hardliners and then there are practicing Jews that take the soft approach towards protecting their faith.

Similarly in Islam there Shias and Sunnis school of thoughts. There are hardliners in both sects. There other versions like Wahabism (saudia arabia) and many others. Within all school of thoughts there are people that take the hardcore approach to protect their faith and then there are people who do disinvite violence.

In Hinduism there are many Gods and people approaching religious views both from a gun or candle.

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Now take this scenario
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If you a piece of land perhaps a remote island and put Jews, Muslims, Christians, Hindus and make sure all sects in individual religions are covered, how do you expect to run a functioning government with a religous ideology of running affairs of the Island.

Do you put in Christainity? If yes then which Protestant or Catholic? What about Muslims, Hindus and Jews?

Do you put in Judism? If yes then which Orthodox or Progressive? What about Muslims, Hindus and Christians?

Do you put in Islam? If yes then which Shia, Sunni or Wahibist? What about Hindus, Christians and Jews?

Do you put in Hinduism? If yes then which one hardliners or soft approachers? What about Muslims, Christians, Jews and Christians?


You see when you try to run the day to day lives of human beings based on religion you are bound to create trouble.

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Secularism gives respect to religion
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When you force your ideology on to others you are going get revolt but however if you give freedom to people to learn and choose the path of their own, they are going to respect their own religion and others too.

Turkey was secularized which gave respect to Islam and other religions. People were free to actually study religion. What happened? The good aspects of running civilian aspects of Islamic culture were slowly adopted by the turkish people. It only happened when you did NOT force them to adopt but gave them to freedom to go choose.

Lets talk about India. There are more Muslims living there. There are more hindus in India that know about Islam then there are Pakistanis living in Pakistan simply because of freedom of free research. There are hardly any Pakistanis that know about Hinduism and its culture.

If you secularize Pakistan, it is actually going to make it more Islamic and in a true way. People will not be forced to believe in a particular ideology and this way people will learn to respect not only other's religious beliefs but respect and learn their own religion too.

You cannot fight an ideology with force. If you could taliban would have been long gone.

The reason you can spread Islam in the west and many people are converting is not because you are great preachers but you have the freedom to do so and people there are free to research and then choose for themselves.

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The solution of Pakistan if you want to make it a true progressive Islamic state is to make it secular. When the force is gone then people would start respecting Shias, Sunnis, Wahabists, Christians, Hindus and eventually with time take peaceful Islamic social values and practically implement it in their day to day lives.

When you use deliberate force to spread Ideologies you create drama, you create chaos, you create death and destruction.

Thank you.


Can you give me a single example where you could or have seen an Islamic Law nowdays or even before 300 years ago..I think you can`t..You were born in secular state and have seen secularism at its best but never seen Islam as in practice..since you dindn`t see any Islamic system in your life you can not say Islamic system is system which can not protect other religions..for you kind information Islamic system is same for all sects....If you put religion away form states affairs then your whole nation go morally corrupt..now you can see even 10 year old kid is a father of a kid....this is all happening when you let people do whatever they want....there are rules to live which you should know..and who can tell you how to live..its only who created you can tell how to live and prosperous...If you make a toy and toy start living itself....can you believe it...its not possible.....
 

az.ay

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)


My point of view is

When you make religion as the basis running political and civil affairs of a nation, you tend to bind people with limited thought process.



Sorry sir. We, the citizens of Islamic Republic of Pakistan, prefer the point of view of Allah Ta'alah and Hazarat Muhammad (PBUH) over 'your' point of view.
 

modern fakir

MPA (400+ posts)
I stand with all those who support Islamic Pakistan !...we the Muslims of any madhab or sect ..if it is one thing we the majority agree on is an Islamic Pakistan...When it comes to this ...we shed all our differences and stand for the Islamic Republic of Pakistan !! And Inshallah not only will it ALWAYS REMAIN Islamic BUT WE WILL ALSO INITIATE THE KHILAFAT E RASHIDA MODEL from here...Saya e Khuda Zuljalaal !! (bigsmile)(bigsmile)
 

atensari

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
میرے لیے ہر نظام قابل قبول ہے اگر وہ بنیاد انسانی حقوق کی ضمانت دے (جو فی الحال فقط سیکولر نظام میں نظر آتی ہیں)۔


ہم سب مل کر دعا گو ہیں کے اگلے الیکشن میں اللہ ایران میں بنیادی حقوق کے ضامن نظام والے اصلاح پسند سیکولرز کو فتح کن کمیابی و کامرانی عطا فرمائے اور اہل ایران کو مذہبی جبر اور استبداد سے نجات عطا کرے. آمین

کس دنیا کے عالمی معاہدے کی بات کر رہی ہیں، فلسطین اور کشمیر کے انسانوں کو حق آزادی نا مل سکا، ایسٹ تیور اور جنوبی سوڈان تو کتنا سستا اور جلد انصاف مل گیا. کیا بات ہے مذہبی رواداری اور برابری کے انصاف پسند سیکولر نظام کی

 
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