StarTrooper
MPA (400+ posts)
nothing to be ashamed of if you hear a truth
2-Nation Theory for the Dummies!!!
- Thread starter desan
- Start date
atensari
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
نہیں، کیا سیکولر کو پسند ہے!؛
Bubber Shair
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
ایک دوسرے کا ملک مت توڑئیے کیونکہ ملک توڑنے کی رسم چل پڑے توایک ملک تک نہیں رکتی، روس ٹوٹا تو چیک ریپبلک کے کئی ٹکڑے ہوگئے آگے ٹوٹے ہوے روس کے کئی ٹکڑے ہوگئے ، تیونس سے آگ بھڑکی تو تیونس کے بعد مراکش، لیبیا، مصر، شام ،عراق، یمن، اور لبنان سب کو خاکستر کرتی جارہی ہے کچھ تھوڑے بہت بچے ہوے ہیں وہ بھی ڈرے ہوے ہیں کب لہر آے کہ آے
StarTrooper
MPA (400+ posts)
han secularon ko pasand hain. Isliyh tu ham khty hain aik secular ne 14 August 1947 ko aik Secular mulk banaya tha
atensari
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
لیکن پا کستان بنانے والے نے کہا تھا پاکستان کا آئین چودہ سو سال بن چکا ہے۔
StarTrooper
MPA (400+ posts)
wo ayan jo Ismaeili Muslim samajty hain
atensari
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
سیکولر وہی آئین چاہتے ہیں!؛
karachiwala
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
it was definitely not so. he wanted a Muslim country for Muslims. the liberals are trying to change whatever he said
Shan ALi AK 27
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
sure sorry I meant its Samething, country for Muslims or a Muslim Country.
back to the future
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
They already had a country
What he said that midline are a separate nation and deserves separate nation
Now from a secular country to a Muslim country
What he said that midline are a separate nation and deserves separate nation
Now from a secular country to a Muslim country
desan
President (40k+ posts)
Citizen X
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Jinnah said: "You are free to go to your temples; you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place of worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed - that has nothing to do with the business of the State."
Note he did not say Islamic state of Pakistan (word Islamic was added much latter on to our official title) and he also clearly states "that has nothing to do with State business" Meaning state has no business dictating how people live their lives. But when the states injects so called Islamic laws into the lives of its citizens then 100% for sure State is interfering in their business.
Jinnah at first was actually against partition ( if he wanted an Islamic state how could he be ever be against partition ) Later he realized and saw how the British and Hindus were moving towards a country which would Hindu state with the Muslims getting almost nothing, very unfair treatment and a downtrodden minority ruled by hindus. So the mussalmans ( as Jinnah usually referred to Muslims in his speeches ) needed a country of their own. Not primarily because of religious differences but political.
And as everybody knows he himself wasn't a very devout or practicing Muslim. You will never hear in his speeches references from the Quran, Of Prophet Muhammad, Hadees etc etc like you hear from IK. Which you should find odd if he was trying to rally Muslims for a Muslim country.
Citizen X
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Not at all, two totally different things. For example Turkey or Lebanon, they are countries Muslims as majority, but not Muslim countries.
Citizen X
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
So when are you migrating from Canada to Taliban controlled Afghanistan?
Mocha7
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
What this has to do with secularism. Secularism is separation of state and religious institutions, not personal life.
So was Iqbal, was Iqbal secular?
Citizen X
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
"that has nothing to do with the business of the State." i.e religion has nothing to do with the state.
TBH and I know I will get a lot of flak for it but thats the way I see it and feel. I'm not really a big fan of Iqbal, he has a couple of things to his credit but thats it. IMO he died almost a decade before Pakistan gained independence so he really had no big part in it.
We are obsessed with shair o shairi thats why Iqbal is as popular as he is today. There were so many other figures who did so much before and after the formation of Pakistan but hardly anyone remembers them.
Mocha7
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
It is hard to prove that Jinnah and Iqbal have different ideas or conflicting frame of mind.
State, be it Secular or Religious, has nothing to do with personal lives. Idea of both are connected with religious and political institutions. What Jinnah had in mind can not be derived from his speech discussing personal freedom.
Citizen X
(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Find me one speech or statement of Jinnah where he mentions a country based on Islamic law or so called shariat or rallying the crowds that country will be a "Muslim country" based on the laws of Islam after all this is one thing that instantly brings our desi subcontinental Muslims together and no further argument is needed. And this "pakhand" since then has been used by all the so called deeni parties since then till today.
But Jinnah never used it. His appeal was more of the fact that Muslims need a country of their own because they cannot live under a hindu majority with rules favouring hindus and marginalizing muslims. Not because we need a country ruled by Islam.
And neither can you prove they were thinking along the same lines and if they didn't change after he passed away, Iqbal passed away just when the real movement for an independent Pakistan started so to me Iqbal really doesn't matter. Like I said he more so famous till today more because of his shair o shairi rather than his part in independence.
I can't remember the last time I heard Iqbals name mentioned in this regard, when ever somebody refers to him its always. Iqbal ne kaha hai followed by some shair of his.
