Signs Of The Times? For the Army fanboys who are running for cover after the double bogey of Ray Dav

[wanderer]

Im open to all discussion.

Thank you Army for keeping us safe.

UPDATE: It was his royal Highness General Kayani himself on the round. 4 hours the road was kept closed. Just going out for dinner now.

Welcome to the club :)
Gov officials as well as army... ek hi thali kay baingan hain.. all the same.
Even been to Karachi ? when zadari's offsprings are moving from one end to the other... ??? hmm thats a site as well a reason to give someone ulcer and hbp.
even the governor of sindh has karachi stopped for him too.

 

[awan4ever]

Gov organization walay kab tax pay kartay hain ... joh deduction salary say hogaie

Tau aur tax kay alwaw jaib say sadqa khairaat bhe diya kerain govt. ko? Jo cut jata hay wo tax he hota hay aur usi thoray boht say apki Army aur mulk ke gaari chal rahi hay sarkar.

Please hold on ur horses while u read... I said there are other ENTITIES living in those areas.. NOT only the khakies. So its not inhabited by them, there are common folk there too.

We are not discussing who lives there. We are discussing who gets SUBSIDIZED housing and facilities there. As I said before the army guys get the houses for the cost of construction only while they sell it out on the open market which includes rate of plot and the location they choose which is always prime land at subsidized rates. Examples are the new Askaris in Rwp. built near DHA, Airport, Chaklala.Try to buy a plot of land near the airport for 50 Lacs only.

Im currently visiting a friend in an Army mess. Remember the great furore over the cost of food and catering at the parliament cafe where everything was dirt cheap and the media had a field day running the report over and over??
Army mess mein (im talking about one of the leading messes on Peshawer Road near sadar) suit ke dhulai 1. rupee.
A/C room at rupees 150/day. NO LOADSHEDDING FOR 1 SECOND.
Food subsidized from the mess. The batman replaced by private contracted servant. Which is basically also a batman.

If all this is okay then fine, dont blame the politicians for availing similar subsidies or atleast criticize both equally.

 

[awan4ever]

Hmm if one pays tax abroad, is

Dunno what you are implyin here...

and u expect this of the awam ????? lol. wahhh.. bohat achey...when their stomachs are full and minds are not distracted by issues of day to day survival..
Im sure they will get on with ur.. advice. Until then... the awam will happily suffer

40% goes to Defense (if you include their pensions in it because they very craftily show the army pensions as part of civil budget)
44% goes to debt servicing.
16% goes to the underfed awam.

Pakistan is 64 years old. More than half of that time it has been governed by the Army directly. So what have they done to utilize the 16% budget more effectively to give better systems? Have they raised the health budget, the education budget, the infrastructure budget? What have they done to alleviate the suffering of the awam so that they can think beyond the daily struggle for a meal?
We blame the politicians for not doing there part. They have been incharge for roughly 30 years. You question those who were in power for 30 years but not those who were in power for 34?

 

[awan4ever]

Gov officials as well as army... ek hi thali kay baingan hain.. all the same.
Even been to Karachi ? when zadari's offsprings are moving from one end to the other... ??? hmm thats a site as well a reason to give someone ulcer and hbp.
even the governor of sindh has karachi stopped for him too.

Zardari and Co. jab route laga ker hamain zaleel kerain tau gaalian aur Kayani and Co. jab route laga ker hamain zaleel kerain tau taalian?

Army ko her haal mein salute hay.

And please dont even try to bring up the 'great qurbanis' they have given in the fight against terrorism.

More policeman and civilians have died as a result of the terror attacks in Pakistan yet they get bounced cheques only.

The qurbani of anyone be it Army or civilian cannot justify corrupt practices.

 

[wanderer]

Tau aur tax kay alwaw jaib say sadqa khairaat bhe diya kerain govt. ko? Jo cut jata hay wo tax he hota hay aur usi thoray boht say apki Army aur mulk ke gaari chal rahi hay sarkar.

main yeah kab keh rahie hoon !!!

If all this is okay then fine, dont blame the politicians for availing similar subsidies or atleast criticize both equally.

they both are equally responsible for this state, no one's being forgiven. Khair.... my question again - what do u want the awam to do ?? Practical solutions hain toh day dayna... warna.. talks toh politicians bhie daytay hain..

 

[wanderer]

Zardari and Co. jab route laga ker hamain zaleel kerain tau gaalian aur Kayani and Co. jab route laga ker hamain zaleel kerain tau taalian? Army ko her haal mein salute hay.
The qurbani of anyone be it Army or civilian cannot justify corrupt practices

Dissagree kerna zaroori hai ? Awam is being killed here, directly or indirectly. Army koh, police koh.. kuch nahin ho raha.
If ur hell bent to open the eyes of the people ... that worship or condemn the army.. either way.. what is the end result ?? awareness... ??

yeah we are aware ............ then ?

 

[awan4ever]

Dissagree kerna zaroori hai ? Awam is being killed here, directly or indirectly. Army koh, police koh.. kuch nahin ho raha.
If ur hell bent to open the eyes of the people ... that worship or condemn the army.. either way.. what is the end result ?? awareness... ??

yeah we are aware ............ then ?

The Tunisians and the Egyptians sat quietly and lived in pathetic conditions for 3 decades almost. But slowly as things got worse and people started realizing the truth about the elite in power, they boiled over one day and you know the rest of the story.
Realization of the truth is the first step. Slowly it seeps down into society and as more and more people start to become aware of the real problem, they start to focus on it until the problem is either solved or it is removed by the will of the people. Let the realization seep through, let the people start debates among themselves on what role the Armed forces are playing and you will see soon the Army will start to open their accounts to you and will start to become subservient to the constitution instead of thinking they are over and above the law of the land.

 

[awan4ever]

hey both are equally responsible for this state, no one's being forgiven. Khair.... my question again - what do u want the awam to do ?? Practical solutions hain toh day dayna... warna.. talks toh politicians bhie daytay hain..

Lets start by looking fairly at both parties conduct and finanical affairs instead of focusing only on the civilian government.
Dono ko aik he tarazo mein tolna tau shuru kerain. Ab tau ye hal hay keh hamain civilians ke corruption he corruption lagti hay aur Army walon ke corrutpion ko ham nazer andaaz ker detay hein. Lets just take that little step first.

main yeah kab keh rahie hoon !!!

Didnt know you were a gal! (just sayin)

 

[wanderer]

Lets start by looking fairly at both parties conduct and finanical affairs instead of focusing only on the civilian government.
Dono ko aik he tarazo mein tolna tau shuru kerain. Ab tau ye hal hay keh hamain civilians ke corruption he corruption lagti hay aur Army walon ke corrutpion ko ham nazer andaaz ker detay hein. Lets just take that little step first.

Goverment & Army are alike. Corrupt to the core. All steps taken, corruption on the whole has been accepted. System or otherwise.

Didnt know you were a gal! (just sayin)

hmmm I and A's make such a difference. Could be a typo (Just saying)

 

[awan4ever]

Goverment & Army are alike. Corrupt to the core. All steps taken, corruption on the whole has been accepted. System or otherwise.

There you go. Now you are looking at them with a balanced perception. Good first step.

hmmm I and A's make such a difference. Could be a typo (Just saying)

Ham Dua likhtay rahay
Wo Dagha parhtay rahay
Aik *nuqtay* nay hamain
Mehram say Mujrim bana dia


Doest really make any difference to me.. ;)

 

[wanderer]

The Tunisians and the Egyptians sat quietly and lived in pathetic conditions for 3 decades almost. But slowly as things got worse and people started realizing the truth about the elite in power, they boiled over one day and you know the rest of the story.
Realization of the truth is the first step. Slowly it seeps down into society and as more and more people start to become aware of the real problem, they start to focus on it until the problem is either solved or it is removed by the will of the people. Let the realization seep through, let the people start debates among themselves on what role the Armed forces are playing and you will see soon the Army will start to open their accounts to you and will start to become subservient to the constitution instead of thinking they are over and above the law of the land.

I dont know why u've assumed people dont know whats happening. The Awam already knows how corrupt the goverment, army and the system is. U cant just blame the army and then have them reform. Its the whole system, fully corrupt. I said earlier, basic amneties arnt readily available to ppl here. Maybe not in Islamabad/ Pindi, but the rest of Pakistan does not have 12 continuous hrs of electricity. U expect the awam to worry about the sanctity of the army ?? I said.. priorities are different, we have been served a plate of worries / basic necessities, and thats the best way to distract us.


You cannot have what happened in Egypt and the other countries happen in Pakistan.
Firstly, its not gonna happen. We are all divided into language, area and sects, there is no unity. There isnt one AGENDA. U cannot have the Pakistani awam under one umbrella. Secondly, what good did it do to the Eygptian awam to topple over mobarak? Now how are they going to deal with their issues ? abh kiya ho raha hai wahan ???? Everythings normal for the ordinary 9-5 walas?? Have they started to fix what had been wrong for 25 years ?? are they moving towards that ?

 

[wanderer]

There you go. Now you are looking at them with a balanced perception. Good first step.

*Sigh* Realization has been there, like I keep saying, priorities make a difference.

Doest really make any difference to me.. ;)

Y would I think otherwise... lol.

 

[awan4ever]

I dont know why u've assumed people dont know whats happening.

Three lines in the official budget transcript about the Army budget tells a lot about how much the people realize what is happening.

The Awam already knows how corrupt the goverment, army and the system is. U cant just blame the army and then have them reform. Its the whole system, fully corrupt. I said earlier, basic amneties arnt readily available to ppl here.

And I will reiterate that basic amenities wont jump out of Umroo Ayyars zambeel. You will have to work out where we need to reduce spending so that we can then put it to proper use for providing the missing amenities to the poor awam. If you keep spending half your budget on defense no one is going to get fed.

You cannot have what happened in Egypt and the other countries happen in Pakistan.

I was talking in terms of realization and what it CAN lead to. Im not saying it will lead to exactly the same as in the Arab world.

what good did it do to the Eygptian awam to topple over mobarak? Now how are they going to deal with their issues ? abh kiya ho raha hai wahan ???? Everythings normal for the ordinary 9-5 walas?? Have they started to fix what had been wrong for 25 years ?? are they moving towards that ?

I just stop and wonder why people think that just a few months after the over throw of the former dictators Tunisia and Egypt would suddenly become Norway and Sweden and rivers of milk and honey would flow.
30 years of oppression and poverty dont go away in a few months. Let them evolve. They will find there way after bumping into walls for a while.

 

[wanderer]

And I will reiterate that basic amenities wont jump out of Umroo Ayyars zambeel. You will have to work out where we need to reduce spending so that we can then put it to proper use for providing the missing amenities to the poor awam. If you keep spending half your budget on defense no one is going to get fed.

This is the 2nd time someone mentioned "Umroo Ayyar's Zambeel" ... research has to be done ........ whatever that is.

Yes all of that needs to happen ... who needs to do it ?? the authorities ?? the same ones that are filling up pockets, balances, etc etc...
So in the end, if we arnt fed we cant think. Simple.

I just stop and wonder why people think that just a few months after the over throw of the former dictators Tunisia and Egypt would suddenly become Norway and Sweden and rivers of milk and honey would flow.
30 years of oppression and poverty dont go away in a few months. Let them evolve. They will find there way after bumping into walls for a while.

Pakistan cannot get to that state, its not in the people.

Im sure ur awakening the masses. Hopefully something good will come out of this.

 

[awan4ever]

So in the end, if we arnt fed we cant think.

and who do you think is going to come and feed you?...waiting for man-o-salwa are we???

Pakistan cannot get to that state, its not in the people.

Pessimism pessimism...

Exact same thing people thought about the Arab world for 50 years...its not in them.

Im sure ur awakening the masses. Hopefully something good will come out of this.

One can only try,,

 

[wanderer]

and who do you think is going to come and feed you?...waiting for man-o-salwa are we???

Sarcasm isnt going to wake anyone.
Either U've not read on the "eithijaj's" or havent seen them happen.

Pessimism pessimism...

Exact same thing people thought about the Arab world for 50 years...its not in them.

lol Pessimism ??? this is a fact !!!

U cant have the awam gather for one cause, on top of that ur talking about geting the army's ass kicked ?? paleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez !!!

Dont u see the difference between the arabs and us ??? Dont u see there is a division to the smallest level ??? And your telling us to get a reality check ? Good joke !! The depth of corruption runs through the core, 100 years main bhie kuch theek nahin ho sakta. Until and Unless this herd gets a sheperd for this cause only. Otherwise to have us all fenced ??? hmmm seems difficult.

 

[awan4ever]

Until and Unless this herd gets a sheperd for this cause only.

Only a herd tht is willing to be led will find a shepherd. Otherwise a shepherd can try as much the sheep will keep going their own way. The will to be led by the right shepherd comes when there is realization of the problems.

U cant have the awam gather for one cause, on top of that ur talking about geting the army's ass kicked ?? paleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez !!!

Like I said, it took the Arabs 50 years to start coming to their senses but they did. Maybe it will take us more time but it doesnt stay dark forever.

 

[wanderer]

Only a herd tht is willing to be led will find a shepherd. Otherwise a shepherd can try as much the sheep will keep going their own way. The will to be led by the right shepherd comes when there is realization of the problems.

herd's ready - There isnt a sheperd !!!

Uughhg !! Realization is there .... but problems are even more. Priorities mainn this is how it goes for the awam---- Basic amenities / Goverment reformation (all sectors) / happily ever after... k ?? So Basic amenities koh recfity karain, then we'll move forward, get all stomachs fed and have their attentions diverted.

U've got a lot standing in the line to "complain about electricity" , then u've got a group thats standing in line at the complain desk for consumption goods, then there is another lost at the health "complaint counter", please dont ignore the complain counter for non-availability of drinking water, while ur at it do glance at the other lines that have been formed at all other "complaint counter" ......... since no one is listening to them, since there is no one at the desk .... aur agar kissie beecharay ki complain sun bhie liee... khair...ISL/RWL say bahar aaiyeah... look at what happens after there is no electricity for hours, days.. how the general awam comes out with sticks and stones.....

Like I said, it took the Arabs 50 years to start coming to their senses but they did. Maybe it will take us more time but it doesnt stay dark forever.

No ones back to their senses... they've created more trouble for themselves than any good. 35 years say toh Pakistan is also aware that it needs to come to its senses..... No sheperd, no use coming outa the dark, if its to fall into another pit-hole.

 

[awan4ever]

U've got a lot standing in the line to "complain about electricity" , then u've got a group thats standing in line at the complain desk for consumption goods, then there is another lost at the health "complaint counter", please dont ignore the complain counter for non-availability of drinking water, while ur at it do glance at the other lines that have been formed at all other "complaint counter" ......... since no one is listening to them, since there is no one at the desk .... aur agar kissie beecharay ki complain sun bhie liee... khair...ISL/RWL say bahar aaiyeah... look at what happens after there is no electricity for hours, days.. how the general awam comes out with sticks and stones.....

We are going around in circles now.
One big reason for the problems you keep mentioning is the disproportionate distribution of resources. If a shepherd comes he will have to change these proportions. Im talking about a specific solution to some specific problems while you are talking about the overall picture.
Im not saying you are wrong Im just sayin I aint off the mark either.

No ones back to their senses... they've created more trouble for themselves than any good. 35 years say toh Pakistan is also aware that it needs to come to its senses..... No sheperd, no use coming outa the dark, if its to fall into another pit-hole.

If you are in a hole the first thing you should do is stop digging. It wont get you out of the hoe instantly but you wont sink much further.
Again lets not keep repeating things. You have your view on the revolutions and I have mine.

 

[wanderer]

We are going around in circles now.
One big reason for the problems you keep mentioning is the disproportionate distribution of resources. If a shepherd comes he will have to change these proportions. Im talking about a specific solution to some specific problems while you are talking about the overall picture.
Im not saying you are wrong Im just sayin I aint off the mark either.




If you are in a hole the first thing you should do is stop digging. It wont get you out of the hoe instantly but you wont sink much further.
Again lets not keep repeating things. You have your view on the revolutions and I have mine.

Agreed.

awan sahab, awam kah sochain.