religious extremism must be tackled

[Believer12]

thread starter is a perfect example of what i mean when i call someone a " Jinnah worshipper "

than we should call you Modudi worshiper who has not done anything for Islam?

 

[alimohsan52]

I think that my quote has nothing to do with the justification of Taliban's suicidal attacks on Mazars. On the contrary, I wrote in my comment (which you didn't consider while writing your comment) that there is nothing wrong in constructing Mazars but there are some practices going on on the Mazars which are highly immoral and irreligious according to all sects. Smoking chars is one of them which should be stopped through state law. Secondly, I emphasized in my comment that Barelvi ulama and sufia (who are the custodians of these Mazars) who also consider these practices against religion and morality should reform these practices because the main responsibility of reforms is upon them. So I was talking about reforms I don't know where in my comment you found that I am talking about forcibly changing someone's beliefs. And lastly, please stop bracketing everyone with Taliban who disagrees with you. Such generalizations will take you to fascist tendencies of which you are a strong critic in case of MQM

I think this thread is very clear in its purpose, we are not discussing about reforms, every sect has a right to practice what they want and they have the freedom to do so. That is their own choice. But I am addressing those people who want to blow up mazaars, they have no right to enforce their views on others. That is not generalizing everyone, you have just misread what I am trying to say.

I believe MQM is worser than Taliban, and If I am fascist because of my views on MQM. Then I am very proud to be a fascist.

 

[Sohraab]

I already told you I do not want to talk to a mentally ill person like you. Please go somewhere else and b***

this is an open forum , if u dont want to talk with me its your wish , i am also not interested in you in any thread , but in this thread you are pointing out finger towadrs others and calling them terrorists , What do you thing we are your servents that you order us and we will type Pakistan Zindabad for you ???? or we are your slaves that u order us and we will type Pakistani anthem for you ???? ... Stop your Childish acts You Boot Licker

Who the Hell are you that someone give you the certificate of his or her Patriotism ???? You Grave worshiper

And i am not interested to talk with you , you are the most childish and immature stupid person of this forum

 

[حکایت جنوں]

I think this thread is very clear in its purpose, we are not discussing about reforms, every sect has a right to practice what they want and they have the freedom to do so. That is their own choice. But I am addressing those people who want to blow up mazaars, they have no right to enforce their views on others. That is not generalizing everyone, you have just misread what I am trying to say.

Will any State allow smoking chars and bhang publicly? It is only possible in countries like Pakistan. There is always a limit to everyone freedoms and practices. I didn't misread your comment. I am just defending your view point that you are right in your main concern i.e terrorist and extremist tendencies of Taliban but at the same time I invite you to think about this issues as a whole. The discussion on Mazars can only be complete if we also point out the malpractices going on on Mazars and the need of reforms in this very important religious institution

 

[alimohsan52]

[HI]You Grave worshiper[/HI]

Look at the sectarianism of this person. The cat is out the bag, these intolerant sectarians are the cause of disharmony in society.

 

[Sohraab]

I think this kind of extremism is the trademark of these pti trolls and nationalists. They will call u terrorist, extremist and a dehshatgard just for going against their beliefs and even when you quote hadith , they will smoothly shift to , " lets be moderate", this time clearly calling hadith and quran to be ( Nauzubillah) extreme. These guys are just stuck in their specific direction. An average neutral reader can easily see in this discussion how he is constantly just pushing me to accept his ideology , unexpectedly with cushy words ( may be bcz he wants me to join pti, Wallah u Alam) and did not argue once on a certain level continuously in more than a few posts. Jumped from one topic to other and constantly tried to prove me an extremist just because i believed in those Ahadith.

100 % agree with you

 

[Sohraab]

Look at the sectarianism of this person. The cat is out the bag, these intolerant sectarians are the cause of disharmony in society.

same thing goes with you when u said in other thread that i completely agree with the religious idealogies of Tahir ul qadri

 

[alimohsan52]

Will any State allow smoking chars and bhang publicly? It is only possible in countries like Pakistan. There is always a limit to everyone freedoms and practices. I didn't misread your comment. I am just defending your view point that you are right in your main concern i.e terrorist and extremist tendencies of Taliban but at the same time I invite you to think about this issues as a whole. The discussion on Mazars can only be complete if we also point out the malpractices going on on Mazars and the need of reforms in this very important religious institution

First of all, this thread was to do with demolition that some people want of the Mazaar of Hazrat Quaid E Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah R.A he is the father of our nation, this Individual granted us freedom and that place is a symbol our nationalism and the inspiration we gain.

Coming to Mazaars. I go to Mazaars, I have never bowed down to anyone other than Allah. However, that is a separate debate in itself what exactly is a sajdah? As I am not a qualified ulema I am not going to get into that debate.

More importantly there are many spirtual benefits we gain by going to the places of the Bazurg e deen. I am not of sectarian mindset, I also deeply respect many deobandi scholars.

We must have unity amongst all sects. I have even advocated for Shia-Sunni unity forum. Why cannot we live to co exist in harmony?

 

[alimohsan52]

same thing goes with you when u said in other thread that i completely agree with the religious idealogies of Tahir ul qadri

That is my right of choice what I choose to believe in, I do not have to believe in what you say is right. I respect all sects who do not believe in blowing up others. I think we should have unity amongst all sects who are peaceful.

However, for someone to believe blowing Mazar E Quaid is a just part of their belief is crossing the line.

 

[حکایت جنوں]

First of all, this thread was to do with demolition that some people want of the Mazaar of Hazrat Quaid E Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah R.A he is the father of our nation, this Individual granted us freedom and that place is a symbol our nationalism and the inspiration we gain.

Coming to Mazaars. I go to Mazaars, I have never bowed down to anyone other than Allah. However, that is a separate debate in itself what exactly is a sajdah? As I am not a qualified ulema I am not going to get into that debate.

More importantly there are many spirtual benefits we gain by going to the places of the Bazurg e deen. I am not of sectarian mindset, I also deeply respect many deobandi scholars.

We must have unity amongst all sects. I have even advocated for Shia-Sunni unity forum. Why cannot we live to co exist in harmony?

Agreed 100 percent

 

[alimohsan52]

Agreed 100 percent

I think you had mentioned about MQM earlier. I believe MQM is 100 times worse than Taliban. There is no second thought in my mind, that this is an evil organisation which must be tackled.

 

[حکایت جنوں]

I think you had mentioned about MQM earlier. I believe MQM is 100 times worse than Taliban. There is no second thought in my mind, that this is an evil organisation which must be tackled.

Again Agreed 100 percent. I hate MQM and consider it a terrorist organization but I love majority of Urdu speaking people though my mother tongue is not Urdu

 

[alimohsan52]

Again Agreed 100 percent. I hate MQM and consider it a terrorist organization but I love majority of Urdu speaking people though my mother tongue is not Urdu

Thank you and I warmly welcome you to join the cause against MQM, by seeing the video I have posted here many times.

You are also welcome to join the protest organised against them on the 5th of January outside MQM International secretariat.

Just coming back to practice of smoking charas and Bhang. This is worrying. I have never personally seen this happen. I am sure any sane ulema would not allow this. However, there are some new people who have taken up the ghaddi from perpetual succession who do not follow sufi and Islamic customs properly and are engaged in even making money from their mureeds. This is also is wrong.

 

[Sohraab]

That is my right of choice what I choose to believe in, I do not have to believe in what you say is right. I respect all sects who do not believe in blowing up others. I think we should have unity amongst all sects who are peaceful.

However, for someone to believe blowing Mazar E Quaid is a just part of their belief is crossing the line.

ohh bhai , agar aap sab sects ki respect karte ho to bohut achi baat hai lekin aap ko yeh haq kis ne diya ke aap kisi ko takfiri , kisi ko terrorist aur kisi ko idiot kahoo ????? Aur agar aap aisa kehte ho to phir kia mujhe yeh haq nahi ke aap ko kahoon ke aap khud Tahir ul qadri ko sirf is liye Pasand karte hain kuin ke aap ka aur us ka malak aik hi hai

Subhan Allah Subhan Allah , Kia Munaaafqat hai ,

Yani ke main agar Deobandi hoon to koi Deobandi aalim Jhoot bole to main us ki Waah Waah karoon

Same problem is with u , you completely agree with the religious thoughts of Tahir ul qadri because That Padri belongs to same maslak from which you belongs too , Wowwww .. hatts off to your Double standars (clap)

 

[حکایت جنوں]

Thank you and I warmly welcome you to join the cause against MQM, by seeing the video I have posted here many times.

You are also welcome to join the protest organised against them on the 5th of January outside MQM International secretariat.

Just coming back to practice of smoking charas and Bhang. This is worrying. I have never personally seen this happen. I am sure any sane ulema would not allow this. However, there are some new people who have taken up the ghaddi from perpetual succession who do not follow sufi and Islamic customs properly and are engaged in even making money from their mureeds. This is also is wrong.

I normally follow your posts and watch your videos. Mei England mei nahi rehta warna is protest mei zaroor shareek hota

 

[alimohsan52]

ohh bhai , agar aap sab sects ki respect karte ho to bohut achi baat hai lekin aap ko yeh haq kis ne diya ke aap kisi ko takfiri , kisi ko terrorist aur kisi ko idiot kahoo ????? Aur agar aap aisa kehte ho to phir kia mujhe yeh haq nahi ke aap ko kahoon ke aap khud Tahir ul qadri ko sirf is liye Pasand karte hain kuin ke aap ka aur us ka malak aik hi hai

Subhan Allah Subhan Allah , Kia Munaaafqat hai ,

Yani ke main agar Deobandi hoon to koi Deobandi aalim Jhoot bole to main us ki Waah Waah karoon

Same problem is with u , you completely agree with the religious thoughts of Tahir ul qadri because That Padri belongs to same maslak from which you belongs too , Wowwww .. hatts off to your Double standars (clap)

First of all I have already mentioned in another thread that Sheikh Ul Islam saab intentions are not clear and the agenda which he has set out cannot be achieved with the support of MQM. I am not a blind follower

However, you must also take into account his social work in terms of education and health which he has done.
[HI]
Although, in light of the thread topic, I am still not sure whether you are in favour of blowing Mazar e Quaid or not? [/HI]

 

[صف شکن]

Building mausoleums are allowed in Islam...How will you justify all these Ahadith !!

1) It is in Hadith - Narrated Abu Bakr bin 'Aiyash (رضئ اللہ تعالی عنہ): Sufyan at-Tammar (رضئ اللہ تعالی عنہ) told me that he had seen the Grave of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم)elevated and convex. (Bukhari - Book #23, Hadith #473).
All Muslims of the world know that the three pious graves inside Masjid-e-Nabawi (صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم) are elevated, considerably higher from the ground. These remain the same from the earliest times as reported in the above Hadith.


(2) It is in Hadith - Narrated Al-Qasim ibn Muhammad ibn AbuBakr(رضئ اللہ تعالی عنہ) : I said to Ummul Momineen Aisha (رضئ اللہ تعالی عنہا)! Mother, show me the Grave of the Apostle of Allah (صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم) and his two Companions (رضئ اللھ تعالی عنہم). She showed me three Graves which were neither high nor low, but were spread with soft red pebbles in an open space (in the secured room). (Abu Dawood Book #20, Hadith #3214).

The above Hadith nails the lies of Wahhabis / Salafis / Deobandis and their like minded groups. The Wahhabis have destroyed and flattened the graves (without a trace) of all family members of Prophet Mohammad(صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم) Sahabah(رضئ اللھ تعالی عنہم اجمعین ), Imams and Awliya Allah. There were hundreds of thousands pious graves of Sahabah in Arabian peninsula. Now, there is none available.
There is no Hadith or Quranic Verse which saysthat the Graves of the family members of Prophet Mohammad (صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم), Sahabah(رضئ اللھ تعالی عنہم اجمعین ) should be destroyed and flattened to the ground without a trace.

(3) It is in Hadith - Narrated by Abu Dawood and al-Bayhaqi in al-Kubra (3:412) with fair chains. Ibn Hajar, Talkhis al-Habir (2:134) andIbn al-Mulaqqin, Tuhfat al-Muhtaj (2:29): "Prophet (صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم)asked a man (Sahabi) to place a rock on top of Ibn Maz`un's (رضئ اللہ تعالی عنہ) Grave. When he was unable to move it (as the rock was too large), Allah's Apostle (صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم) rolled up his sleeves and helped him and the whiteness of his arms was visible (to everyone). Ibn Maz`un (رضئ اللہ تعالی عنہ) was the first of the Muhajirin buried in Baqi al-Gharqad. Hadhrat Ibrahim (رضئ اللہ تعالی عنہ), the Prophet's (صلى الله عليه و آله وسلم) son, was buried next to him. (Abu Dawood, al-Bayhaqi, Ibn Hajar, Ibn al-Mulaqqin).
The above Hadith was also mentioned by Bukhari under Chapter titled 'Stalk on the top of the Grave'.
Ibn Hajar said in Fath al-Bari (3:256=1959 ed. 3:223): "Al-Bukhari narrated this Hadith with its (sound) chain in al-Tarikh al-Saghir (1:42) "


The above Hadith clearly establishes the fact that it is Sunnah to make the graves of Sahabah and Awliya Allah higher and elevated from the ground and prominent to keep them as memorials for the following generations. It is also important to visit these pious graves for Dua. If you remove these important memorials, then you will deprive the entire Ummah of the Dua of these pious souls.

،یہ بات قابلِ تحسین ہے کہ فریق مخالف کی طرف سے طعن و تشنیع کے علاوہ اپنی دلیل کے طور پر کچھ نہ کچھ پیش تو کیا گیا۔ بہرحال آپ حضرات کا دعوی ہےکہ اسلام میں قبروں پر مزارات تعمیر کرنا جائز ہے اور اُنکو ڈھانا فساد فی الارض ہے، اور اس دعوی کے دلائل بقول آپکے مندرجہ بالا ہیں۔انشا اللہ اس کا جواب پیش کیا جائے گا اور یہ امر واضح ہوجائے گا کہ کس فریق کا موقف حق کے قریب ہے ۔​

 

[alimohsan52]

I normally follow your posts and watch your videos. Mei England mei nahi rehta warna is protest mei zaroor shareek hota

Please do watch the video, I will email you, and do write to the UK authorities protesting at Mr Altaf Hussain's terrorist activities.

 

[حکایت جنوں]

Please do watch the video, I will email you, and do write to the UK authorities protesting at Mr Altaf Hussain's terrorist activities.

Ok I will write to Uk authorities. And thank you for tagging me to your videos and posts

 

[hans]

When I say people like Pak Muslim are clear and present danger to Pakistan and its Minority... I am insulted, as being Liberal or RAW Agent.

But its good that we have brave people like Pak Muslim who is clearly stating first hand there idiology. and its time every Pakistani knew whats at stake. At-least we should know what we r buying into.

As or PAK Muslim, your ideology is flawed, the seed of self destruction is one of your core principle. In the long run you shall not be able to pump enough hate. Hate gives your cause to survive, and we all know hate can not sustain one set of people for long.