Islam and Democracy (For those muslims who are in love with democracy and are willing to die for it)

[SaadKnight]

اسلام علیکم
میں نے نوٹ کیا ہے کہ کچھ لوگ بڑے دھڑلے سے اس فورم پر جمہوریت کا راگ الاپتے ہیں
جمہوریت کی حقیقت کیا ہے اور یہ اسلامی نظام حکومت و سیاست سے کس طرح مختلف ہے؟ اس سلسلے میں درج ذیل دستاویز ملاحظہ فرمائیں

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تو میرے مسلمان دوستو اور ساتھیوں، یہاں یہ سوچنے کی ضرورت ہے کہ جس نظام کی خاطر ہم سب زرداری، الطاف حسین، نواز شریف یا کسی بھی اور سیاستدان کے لئے کٹ مرنے کو تیار ہیں، کیا یہ نظام ہمیں آخرت میں فائدہ دے گا یا نقصان؟

یہ یاد رہے کہ جمہوریت اور سرمیدرانہ نظام ایک دوسرے کے بغیر نہیں رہ سکتے، سرمیدرانہ نظام قائم رہے اس کے لئے لازمی ہے کہ جمہوریت اس دنیا میں نافذ رہے

بظاہر تو ہمارے دستور میں یہ واضح ہیں کہ حاکمیت اللہ کی پر عملاً اس پر کوئی چیز دیکھنے میں نہیں آتی، اور جیسا کہ ہم سب جانتے ہیں کہ اسلام مخالف قوتیں سر طور کوشش کر رہی ہیں کہ پاکستان میں خالصتاً جمہوریت نافذ کی جائے اور اسلامی نظام کا نام لینے والوں کا وجود ختم کر دیا جائے

میری اس پوسٹ سے بہت لوگ مشتعل ہوں گے اسی لئے میں اس کی پیشگی معذرت چاہوں گا، پر میں یہ بھی چاہوں گا کہ آپ سب لوگ ٹھنڈے دماغ سے سوچیں ضرور، غور کریں، کیونکہ بلا آخر ہم سب کو موت کا مزہ چکھنا ہے اگر قبر میں معاملات سہی گزر گئے تو قیامت کا دن بھی عزت سے گزر جائے گا
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[javi123]

what to do then? move towards the system you want through democracy.

 

[Wasiq]

Suck American democracy.Majorty muslims are stupid.

 

[Wadaich]

In the words of Dr. Israr (RA) Western concept of "Jamhooriat = Shirk".

 

[mrk123]

Its a case of interpreting the Quran and Hadith to prove your point of view. Democratic system is not perfect - you list your issues with it but never offer an alternative. And, please dont say that khilafat is the answer - we have seen what the muslims did after the 4 caliphs and even the strife that occured during their periods and how some of them were martyred - so it was not a perfect solution either.

 

[SaadKnight]

Its a case of interpreting the Quran and Hadith to prove your point of view. Democratic system is not perfect - you list your issues with it but never offer an alternative. And, please dont say that khilafat is the answer - we have seen what the muslims did after the 4 caliphs and even the strife that occured during their periods and how some of them were martyred - so it was not a perfect solution either.

Mera bhai, it is not a case of interprating the quran and hadith to prove my point of view there are many books on the subject. I have just given here the summary because an entire book cannot be debated here. These are not my issues, they are everone's issues only problem is that people like you have become ignorant, may be you have seen too much light in this democratic system that you have gone blind to see what harms it brings.

As far as the alternative goes, we really cannot implement today the system of Khilaft-e-Rashida, but we can derive a system by carefully studying the Quran, Sunnah and Khilafat-e-Rashida, we can simply call it Islamic Political System. In my opinion, the time after 4 caliphs should be neglected, I don't mind quoting good deeds that people after the 4 caliphs might have done.

But if you think that Islamic Political System cannot be derived and implemented, you must be living in Disney land :P

It can be done but as I mentioned there is an active war against Islam and its political system because it threatens Capitalism. Such a system would shake the very foundations of capitalism. So, there will be difficulties in implementing such a system.

 

[mustafvi]

 

[SaadKnight]

what to do then? move towards the system you want through democracy.

Did you read the post above?

 

[karachiwala]

Did you read the post above?

Forgive him. His knowledge is limited. Difficult to understand Islamic concept when you were never taught about Islam from the beginning.

 

[SaadKnight]

Forgive him. His knowledge is limited. Difficult to understand Islamic concept when you were never taught about Islam from the beginning.

Koi zar'ra brabar emaan to hoga is k dil mein!!!

 

[ranaji]

Suck American democracy.Majority Muslims are stupid.

not majority of Muslims in fact majority of Muslim leaders are stupid or buzdil .*********,na ahel, corrupt, ayash ,puppet of their master they need to be screwed and to be.......................... you can assess what they need to be

 

[SaadKnight]

not majority of Muslims in fact majority of Muslim leaders are stupid or buzdil .*********,na ahel, corrupt, ayash ,puppet of their master they need to be screwed and to be.......................... you can assess what they need to be

These leaders promote democracy on the order of their masters, and their followers are way too much gumrah to realize what they are doing.

 

[babadeena]

The topic more than often discussed at this forum.
Sickness of ignorants. By force mixing Islam with democracy. My question
always is : If in a country 97 percent are Muslims, what is the objection
to adopt "democracy". Definitely every muslim should vote for that party
who will enforce the Islamic Law, what is wrong in domocracy or then
that society does not have Muslims and is divided into different religions.

 

[Mughal1]

There is no doubt that sovereignty only and only belongs to Allah as far as the quran is concerned. However, the quran gives us basic constitution eg goals, guidelines, rights and responsibilities, rules and regulations.

This acts as a framework within which muslim are free to have their own goals, guidelines, rights and responsibilities and rules and regulations as a single community and within this framework individuals have the right to have their own goals, guidelines and rights and responsibilities or rules and regulations.

Anything that contradicts this framework can be clearly proven from the quran as unislamic. This also means all so called hadith and fiqh based shariat that was invented for kings and rulers by mullahs is also not acceptable.

In short islamic goals within which ummah is free to live as it likes are freedom, justice, fairness, compassion, brotherhood, progress and prosperity. Only and only this framework decides whether ummah is living and working according to islam or not. So any goal ummah sets for itself must not contradict the divine goals.

Likewise there are rules to regulate ummah or society eg murder is forbidden so ummah is not allowed to make any law that contradict this guideline. This is why no fatwa of anyone can be accepted as genuine islam if it contradicts any divine guideline and the same is true about any hadith attributed to the prophet. It is because the prophet cannot be expected to oppose the quran.

So most of shariah is not islam at all but invented stuff that is anti islam when examined properly by rules of examination. So there is quite a lot of misunderstanding about islam and islamic rule. Islam is not a rule by any person but Allah therefore all are subjected to the very same rule or standard ie all are equal before divine constitution.

Unless people have ability to understand this much they cannot see what is wrong with ideas that are promoted by many muslims due to their ignorance about islam. Islam is not a tradition but a rule of law. Rule of law is mostly about setting limits that are not to be transgressed by anyone or society will break down. Likewise limits must be proper that make society work and not stupid that destroy society.

Islami Mumlekat kisay kehtay hain

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J82qberW-pQ&feature=related

 

[Bombaybuz]

We will reach INSHALLAH to that true KHILAFAT Allah has promised and his prophet(saw) mentioned many a times ... this country was taken in the name of islam and true islam will prevail here first then only that lashker will go from hind to assist iman madhi in that final MALHAMA TUL UZMA...

 

[atensari]

 

[mrk123]

Great way to win an argument - call the person, you are having a discussion with, an ignorant! Well done son....
Anyway - to further our argument - so you admitted that what you summarised was YOUR version and not a broadly accepted view but at the same time if people don't see the light as YOU have seen then they must be ignorant. Meray betay! Have patience and keep your mind's eye open. None of the arguments you provided are contradictory to the classical democratic system as practiced in ancient Greece. Contemporary implementation of democracy as we know it today may be flawed but you can't outright make it seem like contradictory to the teachings of the Quran and Sunnah just because you abhor the west. Just as you, the great scholar, has proclaimed there are scholars (which you may not want to consider scholars just because they would have a contrary viewpoint) who have stated that a democratic system if structured and implemented properly is not unislamic.

Don't you think that if it was as black and white as you are making it out to be, the great Caliphs would have seen the necessity to enshrine the system that would have been according to the tenets of Islam - if we are a student of Islamic history we could discern that there was a great deal of strife at the changed of guard just because there wasn't a solidified system in place and the situation was fluid and the people at the time were making decisions based on Ijmaa.....Dont you think that if Allah(swt) had wished for us to follow a strict form of government the rules would have been spelled out. If they werent then consultation and ijmaa are the way to the correct system. After Ijmaa and consultation among the scholars the conclusion may not be a democratic system as we know it today but we dont know what form it would take and it may very well be something close to some form of democratic as implemented somewhere in the world - but I find it difficult to accept your assertion that the democratic system is the mother of all evils and is antithetical to islamic principles.

May Allah bless us all with wisdom and knowledge.....

 

[Mughal1]

اسلام علیکم
میں نے نوٹ کیا ہے کہ کچھ لوگ بڑے دھڑلے سے اس فورم پر جمہوریت کا راگ الاپتے ہیں
جمہوریت کی حقیقت کیا ہے اور یہ اسلامی نظام حکومت و سیاست سے کس طرح مختلف ہے؟ اس سلسلے میں درج ذیل دستاویز ملاحظہ فرمائیں

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تو میرے مسلمان دوستو اور ساتھیوں، یہاں یہ سوچنے کی ضرورت ہے کہ جس نظام کی خاطر ہم سب زرداری، الطاف حسین، نواز شریف یا کسی بھی اور سیاستدان کے لئے کٹ مرنے کو تیار ہیں، کیا یہ نظام ہمیں آخرت میں فائدہ دے گا یا نقصان؟

یہ یاد رہے کہ جمہوریت اور سرمیدرانہ نظام ایک دوسرے کے بغیر نہیں رہ سکتے، سرمیدرانہ نظام قائم رہے اس کے لئے لازمی ہے کہ جمہوریت اس دنیا میں نافذ رہے

بظاہر تو ہمارے دستور میں یہ واضح ہیں کہ حاکمیت اللہ کی پر عملاً اس پر کوئی چیز دیکھنے میں نہیں آتی، اور جیسا کہ ہم سب جانتے ہیں کہ اسلام مخالف قوتیں سر طور کوشش کر رہی ہیں کہ پاکستان میں خالصتاً جمہوریت نافذ کی جائے اور اسلامی نظام کا نام لینے والوں کا وجود ختم کر دیا جائے

میری اس پوسٹ سے بہت لوگ مشتعل ہوں گے اسی لئے میں اس کی پیشگی معذرت چاہوں گا، پر میں یہ بھی چاہوں گا کہ آپ سب لوگ ٹھنڈے دماغ سے سوچیں ضرور، غور کریں، کیونکہ بلا آخر ہم سب کو موت کا مزہ چکھنا ہے اگر قبر میں معاملات سہی گزر گئے تو قیامت کا دن بھی عزت سے گزر جائے گا
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Dear saadknight, problem is not islam but most certainly mullaism in pakistan. People who have no sense of what islam is, want to rule us on basis of same imperialism that we are trying to oppose calling it secular democracy. This contradiction must be solved and it can only be solved by educating ourselves and these people and if they prove to be doing this deliberately then by isolating them. So long as we give these element free ride they are not going to leave this nation alone to follow its set out direction.

regards and all the best.

 

[Humi]

a big no to democracy..(clap)

 

[mustafvi]