ISI A State Within A State

dashing pun first u have tell who you are? If your not an f indian. My reply to u is what happen in karachi nothing to do with isi this the responsibility of mr african man i mean malik the indian agent and mqm if isi take over who is going to control border
 

siddique

MPA (400+ posts)
dashing pun first u have tell who you are? If your not an f indian. My reply to u is what happen in karachi nothing to do with isi this the responsibility of mr african man i mean malik the indian agent and mqm if isi take over who is going to control border

he is indeed indian, his full name is d.PUN DIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

adnan_swati

Senator (1k+ posts)
we all love pakistan but pakistan is not ISI. pakistan is much more than ISI. for all those who said ISI is our proud. can they name few thing that isi have don for betterment of people of pakistan
 

adnan_swati

Senator (1k+ posts)
so u think they is no option other than taking over. man have u gone mad. govt. servants(like ISI ) are not here to take over but they have duties and responsibilities. if they would be taliban doing all this ISI would have done much more. bottom line is we want peace
 

Star Gazer

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I think we should salute Major Amir for his sincerety and dedication. He is a man of honor and not embittered by the meaningless worth that men bestow upon other men.

I am sure Allah will bless him even more.
 

DashingPun

MPA (400+ posts)
patriotic citizens of Pakistan need no certificate from any one,tell achievements of isi in maintaining law and order in Pakistan,ISI proudly say that we form Muslim League to protect Pakistan they had huge experience of rigging elections,but they always worked against Pakistan,General Kayyani Previous ISI general did NRO with Benzir And he is guaranter of nro ,isi support corruption,rigging and all bad things in Pakistan what they have done for betterment of Pakistan:)
we all love pakistan but pakistan is not ISI. pakistan is much more than ISI. for all those who said ISI is our proud. can they name few thing that isi have don for betterment of people of pakistan
 

hans

Banned
We should consider ISI not as one great institute... ISI down the line is split into many faction.

If one needs to understand ISI, just flip a few pages of history and study 1999 Kargil Conflict.

Or better, Red Mosque operation, apparently this mosque happens to be just a block away from ISI head office.. am I not correct?

Most interesting question that need to be asked is How is the funding for ISI done? Do citizen of Pakistan pay there salary or there are other pay masters..?
 

DashingPun

MPA (400+ posts)
yes u are right Lal Masjid operation,Kargil Operation is a slap on face of ISI lovers,ISI lovers just realize this agency is not doing his job good,a single suicide bomber is not arrested on ISI reports,ISI failed to find target killers in Karachi:)
We should consider ISI not as one great institute... ISI down the line is split into many faction.

If one needs to understand ISI, just flip a few pages of history and study 1999 Kargil Conflict.

Or better, Red Mosque operation, apparently this mosque happens to be just a block away from ISI head office.. am I not correct?

Most interesting question that need to be asked is How is the funding for ISI done? Do citizen of Pakistan pay there salary or there are other pay masters..?
 

Clanpak

Citizen
@ Dashing Pun and Adnan_Swati......... i have gone through all above discussion about a clandestine agency and i laughed at times, surprised on the views and even felt sorry for the comments of few people. First of all i would like to know what and how much do you know about ISI? One should always talk about a topic, one holds enough knowledge to discuss. I believe you people don't even know what at all the organisation is and what is its mandate.... The first and foremost priority of an intelligence agency is to keep its liaison, work and modus operandi secret and i am happy the ISI has been very successful in doing so, coz that y you all know nothing about ISI. Secondly Mr DashingPun.... u keep talking about ISI's failure in catching hold of suicide bombers and curbing target killing etc.... do u expect that a rep of ISI will appear on Media/NEWS channels and announce that 30 SBs were arrested this week and 120 during the month.. u might never know that if u r a Pakistani, when u sleep sound in ur bed, agents of ISI stay busy in thier job.. hundreds of Suicide bombers may have been caught without your knowledge coz they are not answerable to you. Which department in the world has successfully contained all criminals and miscreants from doing miscreant and terrorist activities? just name one.
U need to change ur perspective of seeing at the things. IF ur convinced that a tomato is not red but blue, no one can change it through argument, but if u really want to know the colour of tomato, u have to think over the arguments, people would offer. Agents of ISI are discreet guardians of the nation and national interests. they have thier successes and failures like any other agencies, but the problem with intelligence agencies is that when an agent do something for which the whole nation should salute him, he recieves his medal at the basement in a sober ceremony, uncovered and unheard. the same agent when do something wrong, he has to pay double for that....
i wish if i was at liberty to tell you what ISI has done and what it is doing...... for ur knowledge, nevertheless i would like to add that ISI is the only organisation in the whole world, whose officers and staff work 18 hours a day to include holidays. there are no tea breaks, lunch breaks in between except prayer breaks.
 

hans

Banned
What Boss, you mean to say ISI workers work 18 hours a day with no break.. Let me tell you half of Pakistani immigrant population in USA and Canada works like this. Look at Paki Taxi drivers in New York.. they even pee while sitting in the Taxi. They carry there Pee plastic 2 liter bottles with them.

OK here is my Question, if you were to split the work force into there ethnicity ... what is the percentage?
 

DashingPun

MPA (400+ posts)
i agree with u on some points,i do not want this agency to roll back,but brother isi declared PPP a security Risk for country,MQM and ANp were declared as indians agents in Pakistan,Now u are watching these parties sitting on driving seats of Pakistan,when i see this my confidence on ISI is shattered and i think ISI is not doing proffesional job but personal liking and disliking,for example when they indicated these parties as foreign agents it was their disliking but now they are in power so ISI is working under PPP which was called as security risk(serious)
now point arises either ISI was wrong or these parties were wrong,can u help me:)
@ Dashing Pun and Adnan_Swati......... i have gone through all above discussion about a clandestine agency and i laughed at times, surprised on the views and even felt sorry for the comments of few people. First of all i would like to know what and how much do you know about ISI? One should always talk about a topic, one holds enough knowledge to discuss. I believe you people don't even know what at all the organisation is and what is its mandate.... The first and foremost priority of an intelligence agency is to keep its liaison, work and modus operandi secret and i am happy the ISI has been very successful in doing so, coz that y you all know nothing about ISI. Secondly Mr DashingPun.... u keep talking about ISI's failure in catching hold of suicide bombers and curbing target killing etc.... do u expect that a rep of ISI will appear on Media/NEWS channels and announce that 30 SBs were arrested this week and 120 during the month.. u might never know that if u r a Pakistani, when u sleep sound in ur bed, agents of ISI stay busy in thier job.. hundreds of Suicide bombers may have been caught without your knowledge coz they are not answerable to you. Which department in the world has successfully contained all criminals and miscreants from doing miscreant and terrorist activities? just name one.
U need to change ur perspective of seeing at the things. IF ur convinced that a tomato is not red but blue, no one can change it through argument, but if u really want to know the colour of tomato, u have to think over the arguments, people would offer. Agents of ISI are discreet guardians of the nation and national interests. they have thier successes and failures like any other agencies, but the problem with intelligence agencies is that when an agent do something for which the whole nation should salute him, he recieves his medal at the basement in a sober ceremony, uncovered and unheard. the same agent when do something wrong, he has to pay double for that....
i wish if i was at liberty to tell you what ISI has done and what it is doing...... for ur knowledge, nevertheless i would like to add that ISI is the only organisation in the whole world, whose officers and staff work 18 hours a day to include holidays. there are no tea breaks, lunch breaks in between except prayer breaks.
 

Kavalier

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
ISI ia the best..... If you search internet for some one the best agencies in world, in every list you will either find ISI at the top or in top 5 best in world.... No match to their professionalism.... it is just that how they are being used.... they are not a state within state.... I guess Dashingpun , either you are press secretary of NS or an employee of the PMLN media cell because it seems so strange that whatever NS is saying the vary day, you post something related to that..... I dont think so there is any simple PMLN voter who has this much time that he only focuses on NS statements and actions and then post things from the media library here in forums like this... I have seen someone posting similar thigns in other forums, obviously with different names...If you are so, then pls tell us , so that we reply accordingly.... :))
isi ko itni bari agency kahnay wala bewaqoof hain Karachi main target killing tu rook nahi sakti isi is k elava khudkush bomber aik b nahi pakra isi nai what the hell they are doing
 

DashingPun

MPA (400+ posts)
we are discussing ISI and u are including NS in this what is logic behind ur comments????:)
ISI ia the best..... If you search internet for some one the best agencies in world, in every list you will either find ISI at the top or in top 5 best in world.... No match to their professionalism.... it is just that how they are being used.... they are not a state within state.... I guess Dashingpun , either you are press secretary of NS or an employee of the PMLN media cell because it seems so strange that whatever NS is saying the vary day, you post something related to that..... I dont think so there is any simple PMLN voter who has this much time that he only focuses on NS statements and actions and then post things from the media library here in forums like this... I have seen someone posting similar thigns in other forums, obviously with different names...If you are so, then pls tell us , so that we reply accordingly.... :))
 

Kavalier

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Very right and I would like to add in suicide bombing thing..... When there are 4,5 of the world 's largest agencies are operating against you, with the resources of not just a super power but also from the most developed countries, along with our neighbors, then obviously, it is not that an easy job... our country is standing so far because of such organisations, otherwise the way whole world is trying, would have long ago finished.....
@ Dashing Pun and Adnan_Swati......... i have gone through all above discussion about a clandestine agency and i laughed at times, surprised on the views and even felt sorry for the comments of few people. First of all i would like to know what and how much do you know about ISI? One should always talk about a topic, one holds enough knowledge to discuss. I believe you people don't even know what at all the organisation is and what is its mandate.... The first and foremost priority of an intelligence agency is to keep its liaison, work and modus operandi secret and i am happy the ISI has been very successful in doing so, coz that y you all know nothing about ISI. Secondly Mr DashingPun.... u keep talking about ISI's failure in catching hold of suicide bombers and curbing target killing etc.... do u expect that a rep of ISI will appear on Media/NEWS channels and announce that 30 SBs were arrested this week and 120 during the month.. u might never know that if u r a Pakistani, when u sleep sound in ur bed, agents of ISI stay busy in thier job.. hundreds of Suicide bombers may have been caught without your knowledge coz they are not answerable to you. Which department in the world has successfully contained all criminals and miscreants from doing miscreant and terrorist activities? just name one.
U need to change ur perspective of seeing at the things. IF ur convinced that a tomato is not red but blue, no one can change it through argument, but if u really want to know the colour of tomato, u have to think over the arguments, people would offer. Agents of ISI are discreet guardians of the nation and national interests. they have thier successes and failures like any other agencies, but the problem with intelligence agencies is that when an agent do something for which the whole nation should salute him, he recieves his medal at the basement in a sober ceremony, uncovered and unheard. the same agent when do something wrong, he has to pay double for that....
i wish if i was at liberty to tell you what ISI has done and what it is doing...... for ur knowledge, nevertheless i would like to add that ISI is the only organisation in the whole world, whose officers and staff work 18 hours a day to include holidays. there are no tea breaks, lunch breaks in between except prayer breaks.
 

Kavalier

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
we are discussing ISI and u are including NS in this what is logic behind ur comments????:)

I started my post with the very name of this great agency.... if you can read clearly....... But no wonder how quickly you reacted to NS thing.... ha ha ha..... NS was himself created by ISI, to keep the political polarity in the country.... Some are born leaders like Jinnah, some develop leadership skills like Bhutto and some are forced/thrown and created like Nawaz Sharif and Zardari.... Luck and crime created Zardari and Agencies created NS......
 

siddique

MPA (400+ posts)
ISI : A New Era

Declan Walsh, Islamabad
The entrance is suitably discreet: a single barrier near a small hospital off a busy Islamabad highway. Bougainvillea spills over long walls with barbed wire; a plain-clothes man packing a pistol questions visitors. Further along, soldiers emerge to check for bombs.Then a giant electric gate slides back to reveal a sleek grey building that would not look out of place on a California technology campus. With one difference: nothing is signposted.Welcome to the headquarters of the Inter Services Intelligence Directorate, Pakistan's premier spy agency. Powerful and notorious in equal measure, for decades the ISI has operated behind a dense veil of secrecy, impervious to allegations of election rigging, terrorist training, abduction and assassination. Many Pakistanis call it the "state within a state".
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Now, though, the ISI is coming in from the cold. Over the past year the agency has invited a stream of western journalists into its swish, modern nerve centre. Over tea and PowerPoint briefings, spies give details of some of Pakistan's most sensitive issues the Taliban insurgency, the hunt for al-Qaida, the troubled relationship with India."We've started to open up a little," said an ISI official authorised to speak to the press. "In the past, irrespective of whether we did something, we were getting blamed for it. Now we want to reach out and get our point of view across."Yet rehabilitating the ISI's image would tax the most inventive spin doctor. For 30 years its covert operations have been at the sharp end of Pakistani policy, supporting Islamist extremists fighting Indian soldiers in Kashmir, and boosting the Taliban to power in Afghanistan.At home the agency is viewed with awe and dread. It is the eyes and ears of military power, with huge phone and email monitoring capability and a wide network of informers.Some Pakistanis refer to its agents who often wear white shalwar kameez as "the angels". Under President Pervez Musharraf they abducted hundreds of people, some of whom were allegedly tortured.Recently, though, it has been the agency's turn to be on the receiving end.
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Last May suicide bombers hit an ISI office in Lahore, killing a colonel; in the tribal areas militants have killed 57 agents and wounded 86. Security is tight at the Islamabad headquarters, where last month the ISI asked its next-door neighbour the city authority to move to another neighbourhood.Influencing the local press has always been part of ISI operations, usually through bribes, blandishments or intimidation. But it rarely reached out to the foreign press, until now."This is totally unprecedented," said Stephen Cohen, a Pakistan expert at the Brookings Institution policy research organisation in Washington. "It seems to be part of a new openness in the military. They're worried about caricatures of Pakistan, especially in the foreign press, such as people saying the country is going to break up in three months."The briefings, which take place about once a week, belie the agency's gritty image. Reporters are shepherded into a wood-panelled conference room with soft armchairs, a long table and a wall-mounted screen.
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Officials in business suits, who could pass for middle management in any company, introduce themselves without full name or job title.During the interview liveried servants ferry in trays of tea and fried snacks, served on ISI crockery. Smoking is allowed.Officials speak openly, but journalists expecting them to gush state secrets may be disappointed. Every talk is carefully vetted in advance. "We're opening up but it's not a total glasnost," said the unofficial spokesman.The ajar-door policy got off to a rocky start last year when the newly appointed ISI chief, Lieutenant General Shuja Pasha, told Der Spiegel that the Taliban had a right to "freedom of opinion". The agency later said he misspoke. Now, though, it is paying dividends. Two weeks ago a front page lead in the New York Times, highlighting Pakistani concerns with the US military surge in Afghanistan, was sourced from an ISI briefing.The agency was pleased. "That was the first time [the journalist] carried both sides of the argument," said the ISI official. "I think we are getting there."The bolder media policy is part of a wider global trend.
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The CIA and MI6 have always maintained relationships with selected journalists, an engagement whose importance has increased amid the furore over torture and abduction allegations.For journalists, the challenge is to sift fact from propaganda. In a recent briefing to the Guardian, ISI officials suggested Indian officials had orchestrated last November's Mumbai attacks. The Indians wanted to cover up an investigation into Hindu extremism, they said.Days later Ajmal Kasab, the only surviving gunman from the massacre, told an Indian court how he had been trained by Lashkar-e-Taiba, a Pakistani jihadi outfit with links to the ISI.In the briefing the ISI also accused New Delhi of supplying arms and explosives to the Pakistan Taliban, even though the Taliban has killed Indians inside Afghanistan."Circles within circles," said an ISI official when asked to explain the apparent contradictions. "It makes an excellent plot for a Le Carr novel."Western officials quietly support some ISI contentions, such as covert Indian support for nationalist rebels in Baluchistan. But more than anything the briefings reveal how the ISI's world view is framed by its decades-old enmity with India."They tell you a lot about themselves even when they don't know it," said Bruce Riedel, a retired CIA official, Obama adviser and trenchant ISI critic.
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The contradiction at the heart of agency policy, he said, is its support for Islamist militants: "That can't be removed by clever briefings."Still, the old cliches about the spy collective being a "state within a state" or a "rogue agency" are out of date. These days it is said to be firmly in the grip of the army chief, General Ashfaq Kayani, who previously ran the agency for three years.But the new openness does underscore the country's fragile balance of power. Two weeks ago The Hindu reported that the ISI's Pasha had invited Indian diplomats to deal with him directly, bypassing President Asif Ali Zardari's government."Formally, Zardari has a lot of power. But on the ground he's not too strong right now," said analyst and newspaper editor Najam Sethi.Despite its new openness, the ISI remains in the shadows. One question stands out: as well as improving its image, is it ready to really change its stripes? At headquarters, nobody can give a straight answer. Circles within circles, as they say.

ASIAN DEFFENCE


 

BluntMan

MPA (400+ posts)
The whole world media is against ISI specially Indian media. Unfortunately, in Pakistan, we have some arm chair warriors who dont have a clue about what ISI does and why is ISI a pain in the ass for the media around the world specially Indians. A big game is being played in this whole region involving all the great powers. ISI is protecting Pakistan's interests despite all the odds and despite the fact that all the major super powers are involved in this region. What members of ISI do and the sacrifices they make are never made public. If you cannot help ISI, atleast have the decency to show respect quietly
 

Clanpak

Citizen
i agree with u on some points,i do not want this agency to roll back,but brother isi declared PPP a security Risk for country,MQM and ANp were declared as indians agents in Pakistan,Now u are watching these parties sitting on driving seats of Pakistan,when i see this my confidence on ISI is shattered and i think ISI is not doing proffesional job but personal liking and disliking,for example when they indicated these parties as foreign agents it was their disliking but now they are in power so ISI is working under PPP which was called as security risk(serious)
now point arises either ISI was wrong or these parties were wrong,can u help me:)

Brother u cannot always blame an organisation for its role (negative though it may be according to you). Agencies all over the world do have an influence on state politics for the reason that national politics and national security go along side by side. your perception about integrity and truthfulness is limited to individual level. we are not talking here about an individual. policies and approaches change with time according to the situation. ISI is not a voter, who ought to stay loyal to a political party. as i told you earlier, ISI is loyal and responsibe only to state and it will do anything to protect national integrity. it will, whenever required, criticize a political party and will endorse the same at another time. we have to change our clothes according to weather. you must shun ur shorts and Tees and wear those heavy outfits, once u enter siberia. u also have to realize that ISI never works under PPP, ANP, PML or anything like that, instead it supports the policies that strengthen the national cause, may it be from the ruling party or from the opposition. i hope i answered ur question..regards
 

Clanpak

Citizen
brother there is difference in driving a taxi and working in an intelligence agency.. i salute ur comparison. u misunderstood me. i certainly know lots of people who would go even far ahead as doing shifts of 48 hours continiously, but my example was for PAkistani people, who better understand what i mean by working 18 hours a day. Don't tell me that a Taxi driver in New York drives his taxi 18 hours a day without break, without fail.
 

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