ISI A State Within A State

DashingPun

MPA (400+ posts)
Inter-Services Intelligence
Founded in 1948 by British army officer
Estimated to have at least 10,000 officers and staff
Officers seconded to it from armed forces
Said to be organised in six to eight divisions
Musharraf reported to have closed or restructured division responsible for Kashmir
Said to be deeply involved in domestic politics
Delhi accuses it of sponsoring rebels in Kashmir and other parts of India
.
ISI 'dictates policy'
"It is a state within a state," says Wajid Shamsul Hasan, a former Pakistani High Commissioner in Britain who is close to former prime minister Benazir Bhutto.
"Pakistan's foreign policy has been run by the ISI rather than the foreign office," he said. But former ISI chiefs say corrupt politicians have created "misperceptions" about the agency because they were trying to blame the ISI for their own failures.
"Politicians have always viewed the ISI in a doubtful light... especially when the ISI was reporting that they were plundering the country," said former ISI director-general Hamid Gul.
"Our foreign office created the impression that the ISI was a rogue agency out of control," General Gul said.
Shortly before the US air strikes in Afghanistan began, General Musharraf appointed a new ISI director-general - Lieutenant-General Ehsanul Haq.
He is seen as more liberal and moderate than his predecessor General Mahmood Ahmed, said to have been close to the Taleban - although he also enjoyed good connections in Washington and was in the United States on 11 September.
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The Americans have always felt more comfortable talking to the ISI than to the government of the day
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Wajid Shamsul Hasan
But there are questions about how far central control extends in the ISI, although General Musharraf - as a military leader - is probably better able to rein in the agency, which is part of the military structure.
"Under civilian rule the ISI had a fair amount of independence," says Gary Samore of the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London. "Under Musharraf, they're answerable."
Mr Hasan, however, said: "Musharraf has made a few changes but the fact of the matter is that the organisation is too big and self-interested."
ISI officers are more likely to wear sunglasses and sharp haircuts than turbans and beards.
But because of ISI support for the Taleban, the agency is reported to have developed links with Osama Bin Laden's al-Qaeda network.This still taken from an Indian army video allegedly shows a militant training in Pakistan."You can't develop ties over 10 or 15 years and then cut them off instantly," says Steven Cohen of the Brookings Institution - a Washington think-tank.
"It's a big bureacracy and changing its direction will take a while, Mr Cohen said, but added that "Musharraf has done a pretty good job on switching policy on Afghanistan."
Afghan Interior Minister Younis Qanooni has accused the ISI of helping Bin Laden to flee from Afghanistan. That accusation is dismissed by the Pakistani Government, which views the new Afghan authorities as being pro-Indian, whereas the Taleban were seen as pro-Pakistani.
General Gul claimed that the ISI - said to have supported and funded the Taleban with help from the CIA - was only heavily involved in Afghanistan during the Soviet occupation.
"It is wrong that the ISI created the Taleban," he said. "They were a spontaneous response and the ISI and the US started supporting them because everyone wanted an end to the in-fighting between the Afghan factions."
General Gul rejected accusations that the ISI or rogue elements within the ISI were to blame for the 13 December suicide attack on India's parliament.
"Somebody would be mad to prepare an attack like that," he said. "The ISI has not had full control over all the factions operating in Kashmir."


"No one can make a career out of the ISI," General Qazi said. "ISI people are serving armed forces officers and after three years they go back. The director-general is appointed by the prime minister."
Source
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1750265.stm
 
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rana14801

Senator (1k+ posts)
any one who is not loyal to Pakistan will definitely criticize I S I. friends i can assure u that I S I is a back bone to Pakistan's security and to its army. most people do not know about it. i can assure u that this organization has such patriots within it self that these people can do any thing for this country even if any govt goes or orders against it. they shall do only what is good for Pakistan. before criticizing I S I my request to my friends is all countries who r against it r not our friends and same way all persons talking against I S I r not loyal to Pakistan.they realy do not know its importance and roll it plays for Pakistan.many of TV anchors also try to misguide innocent but JAZBAATEE people, plz be careful from them. may Allah help us to serve Pakistan as I S I is serving. Aameen
 

Beatle

MPA (400+ posts)
Inter-Services Intelligence
Founded in 1948 by British army officer
Estimated to have at least 10,000 officers and staff
Officers seconded to it from armed forces
Said to be organised in six to eight divisions
Musharraf reported to have closed or restructured division responsible for Kashmir
Said to be deeply involved in domestic politics
Delhi accuses it of sponsoring rebels in Kashmir and other parts of India
.
ISI 'dictates policy'
"It is a state within a state," says Wajid Shamsul Hasan, a former Pakistani High Commissioner in Britain who is close to former prime minister Benazir Bhutto.
"Pakistan's foreign policy has been run by the ISI rather than the foreign office," he said. But former ISI chiefs say corrupt politicians have created "misperceptions" about the agency because they were trying to blame the ISI for their own failures.
"Politicians have always viewed the ISI in a doubtful light... especially when the ISI was reporting that they were plundering the country," said former ISI director-general Hamid Gul.
"Our foreign office created the impression that the ISI was a rogue agency out of control," General Gul said.
Shortly before the US air strikes in Afghanistan began, General Musharraf appointed a new ISI director-general - Lieutenant-General Ehsanul Haq.
He is seen as more liberal and moderate than his predecessor General Mahmood Ahmed, said to have been close to the Taleban - although he also enjoyed good connections in Washington and was in the United States on 11 September.
startquote.gif

The Americans have always felt more comfortable talking to the ISI than to the government of the day
endquote.gif

Wajid Shamsul Hasan
But there are questions about how far central control extends in the ISI, although General Musharraf - as a military leader - is probably better able to rein in the agency, which is part of the military structure.
"Under civilian rule the ISI had a fair amount of independence," says Gary Samore of the International Institute for Strategic Studies in London. "Under Musharraf, they're answerable."
Mr Hasan, however, said: "Musharraf has made a few changes but the fact of the matter is that the organisation is too big and self-interested."
ISI officers are more likely to wear sunglasses and sharp haircuts than turbans and beards.
But because of ISI support for the Taleban, the agency is reported to have developed links with Osama Bin Laden's al-Qaeda network.This still taken from an Indian army video allegedly shows a militant training in Pakistan."You can't develop ties over 10 or 15 years and then cut them off instantly," says Steven Cohen of the Brookings Institution - a Washington think-tank.
"It's a big bureacracy and changing its direction will take a while, Mr Cohen said, but added that "Musharraf has done a pretty good job on switching policy on Afghanistan."
Afghan Interior Minister Younis Qanooni has accused the ISI of helping Bin Laden to flee from Afghanistan. That accusation is dismissed by the Pakistani Government, which views the new Afghan authorities as being pro-Indian, whereas the Taleban were seen as pro-Pakistani.
General Gul claimed that the ISI - said to have supported and funded the Taleban with help from the CIA - was only heavily involved in Afghanistan during the Soviet occupation.
"It is wrong that the ISI created the Taleban," he said. "They were a spontaneous response and the ISI and the US started supporting them because everyone wanted an end to the in-fighting between the Afghan factions."
General Gul rejected accusations that the ISI or rogue elements within the ISI were to blame for the 13 December suicide attack on India's parliament.
"Somebody would be mad to prepare an attack like that," he said. "The ISI has not had full control over all the factions operating in Kashmir."


"No one can make a career out of the ISI," General Qazi said. "ISI people are serving armed forces officers and after three years they go back. The director-general is appointed by the prime minister."
Source
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/1750265.stm

I suggest, you should have mentioned that this is an article dated back in January 2002. What's the sense behind posting it now? To provide information. I do not suppose so - but some evil purpose, for sure !
 

DashingPun

MPA (400+ posts)
no evil purpose:)
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I suggest, you should have mentioned that this is an article dated back in January 2002. What's the sense behind posting it now? To provide information. I do not suppose so - but some evil purpose, for sure !
 

adnan_swati

Senator (1k+ posts)
there is not a single success on isi part. East pakistan we have lost , kashmir still in india hands. Terrorists doing bomb blasts like no where in the world has happened not even in iraq and afghanistan . Only success is harassing pakistani citizens . Recent example is umer chima ,senior reporter in jang group of newspaper.
 

DashingPun

MPA (400+ posts)
yes the purpose of my post was to indicate successes and failures of isi u have given an excellent comment i agree with u:biggthumpup:
there is not a single success on isi part. East pakistan we have lost , kashmir still in india hands. Terrorists doing bomb blasts like no where in the world has happened not even in iraq and afghanistan . Only success is harassing pakistani citizens . Recent example is umer chima ,senior reporter in jang group of newspaper.
 

DashingPun

MPA (400+ posts)
isi ko itni bari agency kahnay wala bewaqoof hain Karachi main target killing tu rook nahi sakti isi is k elava khudkush bomber aik b nahi pakra isi nai what the hell they are doing
 

saint

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
isi ko itni bari agency kahnay wala bewaqoof hain Karachi main target killing tu rook nahi sakti isi is k elava khudkush bomber aik b nahi pakra isi nai what the hell they are doing

really can't understand people when army/ISI operates people cry and blame them for years to come. When they don' and let politicians decide then again people cry and blame that army is not doing anything. Looking at the situation of the region without ISI PK would have been flaten by now

Do we really want army to stop killing in Karachi ... ask these political leeches not to cry then ?
 

DashingPun

MPA (400+ posts)
tell me how many reports of isi are published in media about karachi target killings and suicide bombers ,i never see any good news from last 11years,tell me what isi has done in these years for pakistan,all retired generals of isi are very proud but they are not able to tell achievements of isi(serious)
really can't understand people when army/ISI operates people cry and blame them for years to come. When they don' and let politicians decide then again people cry and blame that army is not doing anything. Looking at the situation of the region without ISI PK would have been flaten by now

Do we really want army to stop killing in Karachi ... ask these political leeches not to cry then ?
 

atensari

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
http://www.thenews.com.pk/latest-news/3880.htm

US spy ring operating in Pak, Afg
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Updated at: 1215 PST, Friday, October 29, 2010WASHINGTON: A senior Pentagon official broke Defense Department rules and “deliberately misled” senior generals when he set up a network of private contractors to spy in Afghanistan and Pakistan beginning last year, according to the results of an internal government investigation.

The Pentagon investigation concluded that the official, Michael D. Furlong, set up an “unauthorized” intelligence network to collect information in both countries — some of which was fed to senior generals and used for strikes against militant groups — while masking the entire operation as a more benign information operations campaign.

The inquiry concluded that “further investigation is warranted of the misleading and incorrect statements the individual made” about the legality of the program, according to Col. David Lapan, a Pentagon spokesman.

Reached by telephone on Thursday, Furlong was angry about the conclusions of the investigation, saying that nobody from the Defense Department ever interviewed him as part of the inquiry.

“This is a lot like kangaroo court justice,” Furlong said.

He said that his work had been approved by a number of senior military officers in Afghanistan, and that he had never misled anyone about what he was doing.

“They only talked to one side, and those are the people running for cover,” he said.

Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates ordered the investigation after a US newspaper reported on the existence of the network in March. The inquiry was carried out by Michael Decker, a top aide to Gates for intelligence issues.

The results of the Pentagon investigation are classified, and Defense Department officials gave few specifics about the accusations.

Furlong, a senior Air Force civilian official, has been barred from his office in San Antonio for several months. The Air Force inspector general is conducting a separate investigation into the matter, to determine whether Furlong broke any laws or committed contract fraud.

Pentagon rules forbid the hiring of contractors as spies. Military officials said that when Gen. David H. Petraeus, then the top commander in the region, signed off on Furlong’s operation in January 2009, there were specific prohibitions against intelligence-gathering, including hiring agents to provide information about enemy positions in Pakistan.

The contractors were supposed to provide only broad information about the political and tribal dynamics in the region — called “atmospherics” — and “force protection” information that might protect American troops from attack, the officials said.

But some Pentagon officials said that over time the operation appeared to transition into traditional spying activities.

Furlong’s network, composed of a group of small companies that used agents deep inside Afghanistan and Pakistan to collect intelligence on militant groups, operated under a $22 million contract run by Lockheed Martin.

One of the companies used a group of American, Afghan and Pakistani agents overseen by Duane Clarridge, a Central Intelligence Agency veteran best known for his role in the Iran-contra scandal Clarridge declined to be interviewed.

Officials said that the contractors delivered their intelligence reports via “Hushmail,” an encrypted e-mail service, to an “information operations fusion cell” at a military base at Kabul International Airport. There, the reports were put into classified military computer networks and used either for future military operations or intelligence reports.

The contractors continued their work for weeks after Gates ordered the investigation, sending dozens of reports to the fusion center. The Pentagon finally let the contract lapse at the end of May.

Colonel Lapan said the investigation concluded that Pentagon rules governing intelligence operations needed to be more clearly defined and that “better coordination and de-confliction of both intelligence and information operations is required by staffs at all levels.”
 

siddique

MPA (400+ posts)
there is not a single success on isi part. East pakistan we have lost , kashmir still in india hands. Terrorists doing bomb blasts like no where in the world has happened not even in iraq and afghanistan . Only success is harassing pakistani citizens . Recent example is umer chima ,senior reporter in jang group of newspaper.
stop doing propag an da against pakistan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

gazoomartian

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
there is not a single success on isi part. East pakistan we have lost , kashmir still in india hands. Terrorists doing bomb blasts like no where in the world has happened not even in iraq and afghanistan . Only success is harassing pakistani citizens . Recent example is umer chima ,senior reporter in jang group of newspaper.

you know what Adnan? PRACTICE MAKES PERFECT
 

Star Gazer

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
All such malicious reports are based on words and statements of dejected, rejected politicians who are trying to revive their carreers, or the reports are based upon the Perceptions of foregin agencies and countries who have very potent obvious interests in Pakistan the nature of which is not hidden from any one. Such reports are rumurous, false, misleading and with malafide intent.

A good report would be one which compares the tactics,targets, reach and resources of the prominent intelligence agencies of the world like Raw, Mossad, CIA, MI6 etc.
The important thing to realize here is that all the world famous agencies are from the western countries and the only worth mentioning are from Pakistan and Iran. Obviously they are the Eye Sores for some.
You can also compare the resources available to all these agencies and use your own analytical abilities to assess how much of the allegations can be true.
Please lets not just jump to conclusions because they serve a smaller purpose in our lives.
 

rana14801

Senator (1k+ posts)
people who oppose ISI must watch JIRGA SPECIAL of MAJ AAMIR. i request to all my brothers to see and listen that jirga special and other related interviews of this officer. he was an asset to ISI and to Pakistan but was a junior officer. there may be many major Amir in our ISI who still r terror for our enemies.
 

BluntMan

MPA (400+ posts)
ISI is the pride of Pakistan and a great institution.
ISI se buhat takleef he saari dunya ko specially India ko. Unfortunately humare apne andar kuch aise log hen jinhen military aur intelligence ki alif be bhi nahi pata aur comments aise karte hen ke saari dunya ki secret agencies ki working ko jante hen.
 

s_as

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
there is not a single success on isi part. East pakistan we have lost , kashmir still in india hands. Terrorists doing bomb blasts like no where in the world has happened not even in iraq and afghanistan . Only success is harassing pakistani citizens . Recent example is umer chima ,senior reporter in jang group of newspaper.

There are some successes on ISI part but the points which you have raised are also very valid.