Why is Rape not mentioned in Quran ?

[arifkarim]

کیا اللّه کو نہیں معلوم تھا کے شیطان سجدہ نہیں کرے گا

اگر اللہ کو معلوم ہوتا کہ ایک دن سڑک چھاپ، گندی غلیظ گالیاں بکتا، بچوں کا ریپسٹ مولوی اسکی ترجمانی کرے گا تو وہ انسانوں کی رہنمائی کیلئے اپنا دین و مذہب کبھی بھیجتا؟
M_Shameer taban Wake up Pak atensari Meme

 

[Meme]

مذہب کی ہر کہانی میں آپ کو ایسے تضادات ملیں گے۔ یہاں ایک پیراڈاکس بھی سامنے آتا ہے کہ جب اس بچے کو پہلے ہی قتل کردیا گیا تو اس سے جرم تو سرزد ہوا ہی نہیں، نہ وہ بڑا ہوا، نہ اس نے جرم کیا تو پھر اس کو سزا کس بات کی دی گئی۔۔۔​

کوئی
paradox
نہیں ہے۔ کل تم کہو گے کہ جب عزازیل کو ٹھڈے مار کے نکالا جانا تھا تو اس کو فرش سے عرش بلایا کیوں گیا تھا۔
بھئی جب خدا کے حضور پیش ہونا تو پوچھ لینا کہ وہ اپنی "فطرت" کے مطابق عمل کر رہا تھا تو اس کو سزا کیوں سنائی گئی۔

جب موسیٰ علیہ السلام جیسے جلیل القدر پیمبر جن کا سب سے زیادہ نام کے ساتھ قرآن میں ذکر ہے، تکوینی امور سے متعلق علم محدود تھا تو اللہ کے بندے تمھیں کیا فرشتے ان امور کے متعلق آ کر آگاہ کریں گے؟

جب کسی شئے سے متعلق کوئی
dataset available
ہی نہیں ہوگا تو ظاہر بات ہے ہر شئے میں
paradox
نظر آئے گا۔ جبھی فلاسفر کو خدا سے متعلق ہر شے میں
paradox
نظر آتا ہے۔ کبھی وہ کہتا ہے کہ کیا خدا
powerful, omnipotent
ہے یا نہیں، اگر ہے تو وہ
evil
کا قلع قمع کیوں نہیں کرتا اس کا مطلب ہے کہ وہ
benevolent
نہیں ہے بلکہ اس میں
narcissist tendencies
ہیں حالانکہ قرآن میں واضح لکھا ہے کہ خدا ایک ظالم و جارح کو دوسرے ظالم و جارح کے ذریعے کچلتا ہے تو
evil
ختم کرنے کی خدا کی یہ سنت یوں چل رہی ہے۔

دوسرا طریق جو ہمیں ملتا ہے وہ تکوینی علوم کے مطابق صاحب امر
preempt
کر کے خدا کے حکم سے ختم کر دیتے ہیں۔

اب تم کہو گے کہ اس بچے کو ختم کر دیا تو اسٹالن کو کیوں ختم نہیں کیا گیا یہ بھی ایک
paradox
ہے بھئی اللّٰہ کے بندے جس چیز کے متعلق
فلاسفر کے پاس
complete dataset
ہی نہیں ہے اس کو ظاہر ہے اس میں تضاد اور اصولوں میں تفاوت نظر آئے گا۔

اسی چیز کو مد نظر رکھتے ہوئے کہا جاتا ہے کہ عقل کے گھوڑے بے لگام دوڑانے سے مسئلہ پیدا ہوگا۔ انسان کے پاس ذخیرہ علم محدود ہے تو فلاسفر کہتا ہے کہ ملا جاہل ہے علم اور سوال پہ قدغنیں لگاتا ہے۔ ​

 

[knowledge88]

کوئی
paradox
نہیں ہے۔ کل تم کہو گے کہ جب عزازیل کو ٹھڈے مار کے نکالا جانا تھا تو اس کو فرش سے عرش بلایا کیوں گیا تھا۔
بھئی جب خدا کے حضور پیش ہونا تو پوچھ لینا کہ وہ اپنی "فطرت" کے مطابق عمل کر رہا تھا تو اس کو سزا کیوں سنائی گئی۔

جب موسیٰ علیہ السلام جیسے جلیل القدر پیمبر جن کا سب سے زیادہ نام کے ساتھ قرآن میں ذکر ہے، تکوینی امور سے متعلق علم محدود تھا تو اللہ کے بندے تمھیں کیا فرشتے ان امور کے متعلق آ کر آگاہ کریں گے؟

جب کسی شئے سے متعلق کوئی
dataset available
ہی نہیں ہوگا تو ظاہر بات ہے ہر شئے میں
paradox
نظر آئے گا۔ جبھی فلاسفر کو خدا سے متعلق ہر شے میں
paradox
نظر آتا ہے۔ کبھی وہ کہتا ہے کہ کیا خدا
powerful, omnipotent
ہے یا نہیں، اگر ہے تو وہ
evil
کا قلع قمع کیوں نہیں کرتا اس کا مطلب ہے کہ وہ
benevolent
نہیں ہے بلکہ اس میں
narcissist tendencies
ہیں حالانکہ قرآن میں واضح لکھا ہے کہ خدا ایک ظالم و جارح کو دوسرے ظالم و جارح کے ذریعے کچلتا ہے تو
evil
ختم کرنے کی خدا کی یہ سنت یوں چل رہی ہے۔

دوسرا طریق جو ہمیں ملتا ہے وہ تکوینی علوم کے مطابق صاحب امر
preempt
کر کے خدا کے حکم سے ختم کر دیتے ہیں۔

اب تم کہو گے کہ اس بچے کو ختم کر دیا تو اسٹالن کو کیوں ختم نہیں کیا گیا یہ بھی ایک
paradox
ہے بھئی اللّٰہ کے بندے جس چیز کے متعلق
فلاسفر کے پاس
complete dataset
ہی نہیں ہے اس کو ظاہر ہے اس میں تضاد اور اصولوں میں تفاوت نظر آئے گا۔

اسی چیز کو مد نظر رکھتے ہوئے کہا جاتا ہے کہ عقل کے گھوڑے بے لگام دوڑانے سے مسئلہ پیدا ہوگا۔ انسان کے پاس ذخیرہ علم محدود ہے تو فلاسفر کہتا ہے کہ ملا جاہل ہے علم اور سوال پہ قدغنیں لگاتا ہے۔ ​

Your argument is, since humans are dumb and they are not smart enough so we should accept everything in the divine scripture without a question. Am I right ? But we proudly ask questions about other religions and make fun. Such as, why do you Hindu worship a statue, can't they think statue can't give anything. Hindus are stupid they worship a cow. Look at Christians , how can God be a father of a human? Look at Ahmadi, these dumb think there is a prophet after our last beloved prophet Muhammad . Why don't Ahmadi think? It is written clearly in Quran that prophet Muhammad is the last prophet.

And then someone asks why Hazrat Khizar killed someone before the sin took place , because he knew the future ? but Allah also knows the future but he never punished before the sin committed. Then someone says, Abay Tera Ilm Allah say ziyada hay? Jaysa likha hay tasleem ker or sawal na ker.
Asking questions allowed about other religions only.

 

[Meme]

Your argument is, since humans are dumb and they are not smart enough so we should accept everything in the divine scripture without a question. Am I right ? But we proudly ask questions about other religions and make fun. Such as, why do you Hindu worship a statue, can't they think statue can't give anything. Hindus are stupid they worship a cow. Look at Christians , how can God be a father of a human? Look at Ahmadi, these dumb think there is a prophet after our last beloved prophet Muhammad . Why don't Ahmadi think? It is written clearly in Quran that prophet Muhammad is the last prophet.

And then someone asks why Hazrat Khizar killed someone before the sin took place , because he knew the future ? but Allah also knows the future but he never punished before the sin committed. Then someone says, Abay Tera Ilm Allah say ziyada hay? Jaysa likha hay tasleem ker or sawal na ker.
Asking questions allowed about other religions only.

بھائی تم دوسرے مذاہب کا مذاق اڑاتے ہو یا نہیں میرا اس سے کیا لینا دینا، تم جانو تمھارا کام جانے۔۔

چلو فرض کرو کہ میں ملحد ہوں۔۔

میں نے پڑھا ہے تمھارے
scripture
میں موسی و خضر کے واقع میں خضر ایک بے گناہ بچے کا قتل عمد کرتے ہیں ۔ یہ کیسا دین ہے جہاں خدا کے چنے ہوئے بندے بے گناہ، معصوم بچوں کا بے رحم خون کرتے ہیں۔ اس کو
defend
کرو اب۔۔۔​

 

[M_Shameer]

بھائی
intellect
کی بحث رہنے دیں۔ مرنے کے بعد آنکھ کھلنے یا نا کھلنے سے
intellect
کے فیصلے ہو جائیں گے۔

​

میرا خیال ہے سنجیدہ مباحث میں اَن فالسیفائی ایبل کلیمز کی جگہ نہیں ہونی چاہئے۔​

Lastly
جہاں تک میری یادداشت کے صفحات میں موجود ہے آخری دفعہ آپ نے کہا تھا کہ میں ایگنوسٹک ہوں اب جس نئے
highly intelligent being
یا فورس کی
advocacy
کر رہے ہیں اس کا سائنسی ثبوت کہاں ہے؟
​

جنابِ عالی میں ابھی بھی اگناسٹک ہی ہوں، مگر تخلیقِ کائنات کے پیچھے کسی فورس / انٹیلی جنٹ بیئنگ کے امکان کو رد نہیں کرتا۔ ​

 

[M_Shameer]

Looks like you were reading
schopenhauer. That was exactly his opinion.

Or may be he was reading Emil Cioran...

 

[knowledge88]

بھائی تم دوسرے مذاہب کا مذاق اڑاتے ہو یا نہیں میرا اس سے کیا لینا دینا، تم جانو تمھارا کام جانے۔۔

چلو فرض کرو کہ میں ملحد ہوں۔۔

میں نے پڑھا ہے تمھارے
scripture
میں موسی و خضر کے واقع میں خضر ایک بے گناہ بچے کا قتل عمد کرتے ہیں ۔ یہ کیسا دین ہے جہاں خدا کے چنے ہوئے بندے بے گناہ، معصوم بچوں کا بے رحم خون کرتے ہیں۔ اس کو
defend
کرو اب۔۔۔​

I am not saying I ridicule other religions. I said we believe it is our right to ask questions about other religions. We not ask questions but ridicule them as well
But when we have a question about our own divine scripture then we are told , no no, you cant ask questions

my question was

Allah set the rule. He knows the future. He always punished and will punish after the sin takes place.
He could have punished Iblees before he asked him to bow to Adam. He knew Iblees was not going to bow.
Then how Hazrat Khizar was allowed to start going on a killing spree to those who were going to be the future murders. Is it not a valid question? Would that make me an atheist? You respons was not relevant to the question. You said,
Toh is ka Matlab hay unhon nay or criminals ko kaon nahi mara? Phir aap nay kaha, oh Bhai Allah ka ilm aap say ziyada hay . Of course it is but he also wants us to figure out and understand his divine book.

You are not the only one, many came on this thread and abused and said , why are you asking questions? It is pure Islamic to ask questions.
In Quran Hazrat Ibrahim asked ALLAH, "Kiya hum mer ker zinda hon gay" Allah asked , Don't you have faith ? He responded I do. Lakin mujhay dil ka itminan chahiyay. Then Allah asked him to kill some birds and Allah gave those birds life. It is in Quran. Now you tell me Hazrat ibrahim Kay dil ko mot kay baad zindahi per itminan Jab howa jab khud dekha. Us kay liyay unhon nay allah say sawal kiya.
There is nothing wrong in asking questions. This is my point. So calm Down. Have a glass of water.

 

[M_Shameer]

کوئی
paradox
نہیں ہے۔ کل تم کہو گے کہ جب عزازیل کو ٹھڈے مار کے نکالا جانا تھا تو اس کو فرش سے عرش بلایا کیوں گیا تھا۔
بھئی جب خدا کے حضور پیش ہونا تو پوچھ لینا کہ وہ اپنی "فطرت" کے مطابق عمل کر رہا تھا تو اس کو سزا کیوں سنائی گئی۔

جب موسیٰ علیہ السلام جیسے جلیل القدر پیمبر جن کا سب سے زیادہ نام کے ساتھ قرآن میں ذکر ہے، تکوینی امور سے متعلق علم محدود تھا تو اللہ کے بندے تمھیں کیا فرشتے ان امور کے متعلق آ کر آگاہ کریں گے؟

جب کسی شئے سے متعلق کوئی
dataset available
ہی نہیں ہوگا تو ظاہر بات ہے ہر شئے میں
paradox
نظر آئے گا۔ جبھی فلاسفر کو خدا سے متعلق ہر شے میں
paradox
نظر آتا ہے۔ کبھی وہ کہتا ہے کہ کیا خدا
powerful, omnipotent
ہے یا نہیں، اگر ہے تو وہ
evil
کا قلع قمع کیوں نہیں کرتا اس کا مطلب ہے کہ وہ
benevolent
نہیں ہے بلکہ اس میں
narcissist tendencies
ہیں حالانکہ قرآن میں واضح لکھا ہے کہ خدا ایک ظالم و جارح کو دوسرے ظالم و جارح کے ذریعے کچلتا ہے تو
evil
ختم کرنے کی خدا کی یہ سنت یوں چل رہی ہے۔

دوسرا طریق جو ہمیں ملتا ہے وہ تکوینی علوم کے مطابق صاحب امر
preempt
کر کے خدا کے حکم سے ختم کر دیتے ہیں۔

اب تم کہو گے کہ اس بچے کو ختم کر دیا تو اسٹالن کو کیوں ختم نہیں کیا گیا یہ بھی ایک
paradox
ہے بھئی اللّٰہ کے بندے جس چیز کے متعلق
فلاسفر کے پاس
complete dataset
ہی نہیں ہے اس کو ظاہر ہے اس میں تضاد اور اصولوں میں تفاوت نظر آئے گا۔

اسی چیز کو مد نظر رکھتے ہوئے کہا جاتا ہے کہ عقل کے گھوڑے بے لگام دوڑانے سے مسئلہ پیدا ہوگا۔ انسان کے پاس ذخیرہ علم محدود ہے تو فلاسفر کہتا ہے کہ ملا جاہل ہے علم اور سوال پہ قدغنیں لگاتا ہے۔ ​

حضورِ والا! انسان کے تراشے ہوئے تصورِ خدا میں اتنے جھول ہیں کہ ہم گنتے گنتے تھک جائیں گے۔ آج کے جدید سائنسی دور میں خدا، شیطان، آدم و حوا، جنت سے دیس نکالا پھردنیا میں امتحان وغیرہ یہ سب بچوں کی کہانیاں لگتی ہیں۔ اگر انسانوں کو بچپن میں زبردستی یہ کہانیاں نہ پڑھائی جائیں اور ان کے بالغ اور باشعور ہونے تک انتظار کیا جائے اس کے بعد انہیں مذہب کی تعلیم دی جائے تو شاید ہر کوئی ان کہانیوں کو مسترد کردے۔۔۔

اور جہاں تک آپ نے کمپلیٹ ڈیٹا سیٹ نہ ہونے کو ایکسیوز بنایا ہے تو اس لاجک کے تحت تو آپ کسی بھی کہانی پر آنکھ بند کر ایمان لے آئیں کہ چونکہ فلاں چیز بارے ہمارے پاس کمپلیٹ ڈیٹا سیٹ نہیں لہذا یہ کہانی یوں ہی ہوئی ہوگی۔۔ ​

 

[M_Shameer]

Your argument is, since humans are dumb and they are not smart enough so we should accept everything in the divine scripture without a question. Am I right ? But we proudly ask questions about other religions and make fun. Such as, why do you Hindu worship a statue, can't they think statue can't give anything. Hindus are stupid they worship a cow. Look at Christians , how can God be a father of a human? Look at Ahmadi, these dumb think there is a prophet after our last beloved prophet Muhammad . Why don't Ahmadi think? It is written clearly in Quran that prophet Muhammad is the last prophet.

And then someone asks why Hazrat Khizar killed someone before the sin took place , because he knew the future ? but Allah also knows the future but he never punished before the sin committed. Then someone says, Abay Tera Ilm Allah say ziyada hay? Jaysa likha hay tasleem ker or sawal na ker.
Asking questions allowed about other religions only.

جاوید اختر نے ایک بار کہا کہ ہر مذہب کا ماننے والا بھی 90 فیصد نان بیلیور ہوتا ہے، کیونکہ اس کو باقی تمام مذاہب کی خامیاں صاف نظر آتی ہیں، اس کو صرف اپنے مذہب کی خامیاں نظر نہیں آتیں ۔۔۔

ویسے مذہب پر جاوید اختر کی یہ تقریر سننے لائق ہے۔۔
​

 

[Citizen X]

I am not saying I ridicule other religions. I said we believe it is our right to ask questions about other religions. We not ask questions but ridicule them as well
But when we have a question about our own divine scripture then we are told , no no, you cant ask questions

my question was

Allah set the rule. He knows the future. He always punished and will punish after the sin takes place.
He could have punish Iblees before he asked him to bow to Adam. He k ew Iblees was not going to bow.
Then how Hazrat Khizar was allowed to start going on a killing spree to those who were going to be the future murders. Is it not a valid question? Would that make me an atheist? You respons was not relevant to the question. You said,
Toh is ka Matlab hay unhon nay or criminals ko kaon nahi mara? Phir aap nay kaha, oh Bhai Allah ka ilm aap say ziyada hay . Of course it is but he also wants us to figure out and understand his divine book.

You are not the only one, many came on thus thread and abused and said , why are you asking questions? It is pure Islamic to ask questions.
In Quran Hazrat Ibrahim asked ALLAH, "Kiya hum mer ker zinda hon gay" Allah asked , Don't you have faith ? He responded I do. Lakin mukhay dil ka itminan chahiyay. Then Allah asked him to kill some birds and Allah gave those birds life. It is in Quran. Now you tell me Hazrat ibrahim Kay dil ko mot kay baad zindahi per itminan Jan howa jab khud dekha. Us kay liyay unhon nay allah say sawal kiya.
There is nothing wrong in asking questions. This is my point. So calm Down. Have a glass of water.

Look who ran away declaring a unilateral victory (as expected and predicted) Typical! lol

 

[knowledge88]

جاوید اختر نے ایک بار کہا کہ ہر مذہب کا ماننے والا بھی 90 فیصد نان بیلیور ہوتا ہے، کیونکہ اس کو باقی تمام مذاہب کی خامیاں صاف نظر آتی ہیں، اس کو صرف اپنے مذہب کی خامیاں نظر نہیں آتیں ۔۔۔

ویسے مذہب پر جاوید اختر کی یہ تقریر سننے لائق ہے۔۔
​

But according to Quran Hazrat Abrahim asked questions to Allah.,like if we get life after death.
But if I doubt life after death then I am an atheist.

 

[Wake up Pak]

You wrote

rape', a sexual assault violating the dignity of another soul would clearly fall under the Quranic concept of 'fasaad fil ard' (corruption in the land).

How did you figure this out.
Allah didn't even mention one word about rape in Quran and you are equating with fasaad ul arz .

Allah did mention
1) not to backbite
2) not to assume too much
3) how to punish the adulterer
4) how to punish a thief
Etc
But not a word against the most common and most heinous crime.
While I am writing this someone somewhere might be getting raped. May be s child like Zanab. And you are OK for God leaving rape out from the book which teaches us how to live our lives.
When it comes to rape you have to assume it could be related to Fisadularz. This relation of rape withfisad is frequently done by people who believe on hadees. You don't believe on hadees. If Allah found backbiting more sinister than rape and discussed backbiting but left rape out then who are you to tell us that rape is a grave crime?

That was my understanding as God did not directly mention anything regarding the Rape punishment. What is your take on it from the Quran or your beloved Ahadith?

 

[knowledge88]

That was my understanding as God did not directly mention anything regarding the Rape punishment. What is your take on it from the Quran or your beloved Ahadith?

Rape is a crime which is heinous and quite frequent. As I wrote before, As I am typing this someone somewhere is getting raped. Every 68 seconds at least one American is sexually assaulted. Now when you talk about the world, the figure is very high.

since Quran does not mention rape and its punishment, all the Islamic scholars who are in power (not the youtube one) claim the victim has to provide 4 witnesses otherwise she has to be punished.

You asked my opinion: My opinion is that the current trial restrictions of 4 witnesses are extremely cruel and otherwise putting the victim of the rape behind bars is more cruel.

I would request you to first watch the 2 minute video to see what most Islamic scholars believe of rape trial and punishment according to Quran .

Then I would like you to watch this video of Mufti Taqi Usmani who was an actual judge, see the whole video , in th beginning he says asking 4 witnesses is cruel but at the end of the video he comes back in support of 4 witnesses.

Rape punishment is a serious problem whenever there is a strict Islam implemented. It is usual for a rape victim to ignore the complaint and stay quiet as explained by Munawar Hassan in the above video.

(it is an imaginary scenario, so don't be offended ) Imagine you have a loved one, three men enter the house and rape her. You and she go to the police that she was raped in your presence in the house. According to Islamic law since there are not 4 witnesses, the rapists will not get the death penalty, and the victim of the rape may get arrested, even though she was raped.

You tell me what is the solution - - -
please watch the above videos - - -


Lastly, you asked and talked on this topic with respect, thank you, it hasn't been the case above.







.

 

[Wake up Pak]

Rape is a crime which is heinous and quite frequent. As I wrote before, As I am typing this someone somewhere is getting raped. Every 68 seconds at least one American is sexually assaulted. Now when you talk about the world, the figure is very high.

since Quran does not mention rape and its punishment, all the Islamic scholars who are in power (not the youtube one) claim the victim has to provide 4 witnesses otherwise she has to be punished.

You asked my opinion: My opinion is that the current trial restrictions of 4 witnesses are extremely cruel and otherwise putting the victim of the rape behind bars is more cruel.

I would request you to first watch the 2 minute video to see what most Islamic scholars believe of rape trial and punishment according to Quran .

Then I would like you to watch this video of Mufti Taqi Usmani who was an actual judge, see the whole video , in th beginning he says asking 4 witnesses is cruel but at the end of the video he comes back in support of 4 witnesses.

Rape punishment is a serious problem whenever there is a strict Islam implemented. It is usual for a rape victim to ignore the complaint and stay quiet as explained by Munawar Hassan in the above video.

(it is an imaginary scenario, so don't be offended ) Imagine you have a loved one, three men enter the house and rape her. You and she go to the police that she was raped in your presence in the house. According to Islamic law since there are not 4 witnesses, the rapists will not get the death penalty, and the victim of the rape may get arrested, even though she was raped.

You tell me what is the solution - - -
please watch the above videos - - -


Lastly, you asked and talked on this topic with respect, thank you, it hasn't been the case above.







.

These ignorant mullahs have nothing to do with Islam. How is it possible for a rape victim to produce 4 witnesses or keep quiet? This is absurd and illogical, and there is no such thing in the Quran.
Once again, you did not give any of your thoughts about the subject matter from the Quran or the ahadith either.

 

[knowledge88]

These ignorant mullahs have nothing to do with Islam. How is it possible for a rape victim to produce 4 witnesses or keep quiet? This is absurd and illogical, and there is no such thing in the Quran.
Once again, you did not give any of your thoughts about the subject matter from the Quran or the ahadith either.

4 witnesses issue comes from Quran nor from hadeez.
Don't be belligerent to me for the solution. I never says I have a solution. I have a question. . You sat every where No, No Islam is not a mazhab it is a way of life. Tell me what Quran mean by 4 witnesses. Even if 4 witnesses mentioned I'm Quran are only for sex with consent. How can you punish a person who has consensual sex with someone because nobody has sex in front of 4 people. Teach me what Quran mean by 4 witnesses and what is your solution for a trial of rape and the punishment of rape. And don't copy and paste from the websites which believe on hadees. I need your opinion.

 

[Wake up Pak]

4 witnesses issue comes from Quran nor from hadeez.
Don't be belligerent to me for the solution. I never says I have a solution. I have a question. . You sat every where No, No Islam is not a mazhab it is a way of life. Tell me what Quran mean by 4 witnesses. Even if 4 witnesses mentioned I'm Quran are only for sex with consent. How can you punish a person who has consensual sex with someone because nobody has sex in front of 4 people. Teach me what Quran mean by 4 witnesses and what is your solution for a trial of rape and the punishment of rape. And don't copy and paste from the websites which believe on hadees. I need your opinion.

Once again you are dodging the question, what is your take on rape from ahadith?
The 4 witnesses from the Quran are not in the context of a rape victim but adultery.

 

[knowledge88]

These ignorant mullahs have nothing to do with Islam. How is it possible for a rape victim to produce 4 witnesses or keep quiet? This is absurd and illogical, and there is no such thing in the Quran.
Once again, you did not give any of your thoughts about the subject matter from the Quran or the ahadith either.

4 witnesses issue comes from Quran not from hadees.
Don't be belligerent to me for the solution. I never said I have a solution. I have a question. . You sat every where No, No Islam is not a mazhab it is a way of life. Tell me what Quran mean by 4 witnesses. Even if 4 witnesses mentioned in Quran are only for sex with consent. How can you punish a person who has consensual sex with someone because nobody has sex in front of 4 people. Teach me what Quran mean by 4 witnesses and what is your solution for a trial of rape and the punishment of rape. And don't copy and paste from the websites which believe on hadees. I need your opinion. Lastly do you know any alim anywhere in the world, who could give guidelines about the rape issue according to Islam.
Since you hate every alim. You must have who would agree with you besides citizen X.
Problem for you is that you only believe in Quran and Quran didn't even mention rape. So you don't have any second book to get guidance on this issue.And you say Quran is a way of life so find me the solution for rape.

 

[Wake up Pak]

4 witnesses issue comes from Quran nor from hadeez.
Don't be belligerent to me for the solution. I never says I have a solution. I have a question. . You sat every where No, No Islam is not a mazhab it is a way of life. Tell me what Quran mean by 4 witnesses. Even if 4 witnesses mentioned I'm Quran are only for sex with consent. How can you punish a person who has consensual sex with someone because nobody has sex in front of 4 people. Teach me what Quran mean by 4 witnesses and what is your solution for a trial of rape and the punishment of rape. And don't copy and paste from the websites which believe on hadees. I need your opinion. Lastly do you know any alim anywhere in the world, who could give guidelines about the rape issue according to Islam
Problem for you us that you only believe in Quran and Quran didn't even mention rape. So you don't have any second book to get guidance on this issue.

Why copy-pasting the same stuff again?

 

[knowledge88]

Why copy-pasting the same stuff again?

The website issue. I didn't copy and paste it again.

 

[Citizen X]

Why copy-pasting the same stuff again?

You expect to get a straight answer? LOL When he eventually realizes he has painted himself into a corner, he will declare some kind of victory and run away like they always do.

His whole set up is flawed, trying to club up rape with adultery. Rape has very little to do with sex, more than sexual, rape is a crime of violence, more about having power and control over the victim and inducing fear, even modern criminal sciences now recognizes this, so all this 4 witnesses and flogging thing is trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

And that is why till today these idiotic sectarian hadithyouns have not be able to resolve this issue, hence they come up with stupid shit of a rape victim having to bring 4 witnesses or get punished herself.

So any punishment for rape would be the same for any violent crime and in my view and this is strictly my own understanding. Allah did not specifically mention a punishment and left it open ended because of depending on the severity of the crime.

Sometimes there is a lot of physical violence, sometimes the rapist even ends up murdering their victims, so you cannot have one size fits all here.

But these hadith idiots are so used to being spoon fed everything they have a lost of critical thinking abilities, use of aqal is 0

EDIT : On a side note, why is it Pakistanis all Islam related issues start and end with sex only?