The road to renewal: After centuries of stagnation science is making a comeback in the Islamic worl

[modern.fakir]

These things don't work anymore when it comes to state craft. And the reason being is that you don't have the muslims anymore to make it work. ;)

Lurker, what we have or dont have is another debate BUT within the context of this conversation what I am saying is that RULES of a STATE are binding on all citizens (bigsmile)...if RULES work for a secular state THEN RULES made with the Basis of Quran and Sunnah in an Islamic State are fully workable.

If we have the Quran and Sunnah from 1400 years ago preserved in the Minds of Millions of Muslims to this date then we can definitely reproduce our glorified legacy !..i doubt if any other nation can do it.

Pakistan can mean Nancy or Suzie for all I care; I only care about what Jinnah said. Sometimes I think Jinnah would have a hard time fitting himself in Pakistan, especially in relation to Article 62 in the constitution of Pakistan. A Nation that backstabbed its founding father's legacy and vision cannot possibly prosper.

I agree with you ...(bigsmile)..An Islamic Republic CANNOT and will not progress under a secular governance system. It is the very reason for the corrupt system we have in Pakistan today. The secular democratic system has given us the likes of Mr 10 percent and altaf husseins and every other clown known to mankind !!

The pakistani so called elite has indeed backstabbed the founder Muhammad Ali JInnah Ra who laid the foundation of this state by setting up the Department of ISlamic Reconstruction, who criticized the western banking system and wanted to setup an Islamic gold and silver based economic model for Pakistan, But the traitors who have been installed by the foreign masters are still up and well but for how long ? (bigsmile)

Muslims not been successfull has many reasons, destiny, our own faults and lastly occupation and a deliberate attempt by foreign powers in keeping us down. These combined were the main factors, but now the situation is changing rapidly.;)

 

[awan4ever]

These things don't work anymore when it comes to state craft. And the reason being is that you don't have the muslims anymore to make it work. ;)


Pakistan can mean Nancy or Suzie for all I care; I only care about what Jinnah said. Sometimes I think Jinnah would have a hard time fitting himself in Pakistan, especially in relation to Article 62 in the constitution of Pakistan. A Nation that backstabbed its founding father's legacy and vision cannot possibly prosper.

[HI]Khair, why don't you tell us why Muslims are sooooo sooooo not successful in Science since the past couple of hundred years?[/HI]

If you have seen The Big Bang Theory you know when someone innocently asks Sheldon to explain something and all his room mates go Noooooo....
Thats me right now...

;)

 

[lurker]

If you have seen The Big Bang Theory you know when someone innocently asks Sheldon to explain something and all his room mates go Noooooo....
Thats me right now...;)

Haha dude. I love the big bang theory. However a Pakistani can NEVER be Sheldon. ;) We Pakistanis are more concerned of God than progressing in this Duniya. Islam was the reason of our rise. Islam was the reason of our fall. The saying that Every revolution sows within itself the seeds of its own destruction aptly applies to islam.

Our education is filtered and limited by our compliance to Islam. So not only does religion need to be stripped away from State, it also needs to be stripped away from Higher Education. Today, the muslims are killing muslims everyday in Pakistan. No muslim has the time or the willingness to move towards prosperity. Those that do, move out of Islamic lands. :)

 

[modern.fakir]

Amazing you blame religion when the reason for Pakistan's or even the Muslim worlds lack of quick progress so far have been "secular" and "western educated rulers" along with their "democracy" [hilar][hilar]

Muslims were alot better with better protected honour when they were under a Khalifa or religious government and the majority has realised this as is evident in the Islamic Overtones of the governments being formed in Turkey, Iran, EGYPT, Palestine, LIBYA, and Now Afghanistan and SOON after Pakistan (bigsmile)

You can remain lost in your confusions ...a new dawn is beginning (bigsmile)

Haha dude. I love the big bang theory. However a Pakistani can NEVER be Sheldon. ;) We Pakistanis are more concerned of God than progressing in this Duniya. Islam was the reason of our rise. Islam was the reason of our fall. The saying that Every revolution sows within itself the seeds of its own destruction aptly applies to islam.

Our education is filtered and limited by our compliance to Islam. So not only does religion need to be stripped away from State, it also needs to be stripped away from Higher Education. Today, the muslims are killing muslims everyday in Pakistan. No muslim has the time or the willingness to move towards prosperity. Those that do, move out of Islamic lands. :)

 

[lurker]

Hey. Be politically correct when you address issues. There has never been a Secular government in Pakistan. Even Zardari today is OFFICIALLY representing "YOUR" Islamic Republic. He is technically "Your" man. Stand by your man. He is *your* current defender of the Sunnah and Islamic governance in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. ;)

And yes I blame religion for all the ills of Muslims everywhere. I expected Islam to be immune to failure, but it looks its just as vulnerable as any other Theocracy. Infact it is not just a political failure, it is also an educational and progressive failure. As evidenced by the progress of Science in Islamic lands. The Only new thing Muslims have discovered since the fall of the Abbasids is Paranoia and a Conspiracy culture. Even the shadows conspire against Muslims these days.

Edit: Perhaps I have been too quick in my judgment of Islam. I think every form of governance has a specific criteria. When Islam rose and prospered, the times were conducive to its progress and it genuinely helped people. However times have changed. And so have the forms of governance. Muslims of Today will NOT accept a Khalifah. ;)

Amazing you blame religion when the reason for Pakistan's or even the Muslim worlds lack of quick progress so far have been "secular" and "western educated rulers" along with their "democracy" [hilar][hilar]

Muslims were alot better with better protected honour when they were under a Khalifa or religious government and the majority has realised this as is evident in the Islamic Overtones of the governments being formed in Turkey, Iran, EGYPT, Palestine, LIBYA, and Now Afghanistan and SOON after Pakistan (bigsmile)

You can remain lost in your confusions ...a new dawn is beginning (bigsmile)

 

[modern.fakir]

[hilar][hilar] ...So now when you have no response to secular and atheistic failures, you have now resorted to abandoning your secular goons and resorted to "political correctness".:lol:

You have so called secular democracy and parliament in Pakistan but the leader is a KHALIFAH ..who cant recite Surah Ikhlas ?? [hilar][hilar]

Lurker, you seem to have a deliberate habit of simply dumping anything you dislike, upon Islam and the Khilafat simply because you harbour immense hatred for it. Like for god sake if you dont want to own your garbage then thats fine, but also please dont DUMP it on others ![hilar][hilar]

And yes I blame religion for all the ills of Muslims everywhere. I expected Islam to be immune to failure, but it looks its just as vulnerable as any other Theocracy. Infact it is not just a political failure, it is also an educational and progressive failure. As evidenced by the progress of Science in Islamic lands. The Only new thing Muslims have discovered since the fall of the Abbasids is Paranoia and a Conspiracy culture. Even the shadows conspire against Muslims these days.

Edit: Perhaps I have been too quick in my judgment of Islam. I think every form of governance has a specific criteria. When Islam rose and prospered, the times were conducive to its progress and it genuinely helped people. However times have changed. And so have the forms of governance. Muslims of Today will NOT accept a Khalifah

Abbasids and other khilafats also led to the Golden Era of Islam which produced great scientific discoveries without which you would not have a modern world today !(bigsmile)

Its plain and simple ...the reason we did well back then was because we were close to the Quran and Sunnah, and now we have people like you who hold hatred for the ways of GOD and blatantly speak against it, which became the main reason for our downfall.

But the good thing NOW is that your ideology is time-ward and outdated, now ISlam is on the rise again, whether you like it or not. You may dislike it but its still happening and its only going to get better.

Muslims have ALWAYS accepted a Khalifah and when the time comes they will accept another one with open arms :lol: ...Its about time now !

Hey. Be politically correct when you address issues. There has never been a Secular government in Pakistan. Even Zardari today is OFFICIALLY representing "YOUR" Islamic Republic. He is technically "Your" man. Stand by your man. He is *your* current defender of the Sunnah and Islamic governance in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. ;)

And yes I blame religion for all the ills of Muslims everywhere. I expected Islam to be immune to failure, but it looks its just as vulnerable as any other Theocracy. Infact it is not just a political failure, it is also an educational and progressive failure. As evidenced by the progress of Science in Islamic lands. The Only new thing Muslims have discovered since the fall of the Abbasids is Paranoia and a Conspiracy culture. Even the shadows conspire against Muslims these days.

Edit: Perhaps I have been too quick in my judgment of Islam. I think every form of governance has a specific criteria. When Islam rose and prospered, the times were conducive to its progress and it genuinely helped people. However times have changed. And so have the forms of governance. Muslims of Today will NOT accept a Khalifah. ;)

 

[lurker]

I don't think you care much for technicalities do you? Anyone elected under the constitution of Pakistan is NOT part of a secular system. Yes, as unbelievable as it sounds, Zardari IS actually part of your Islamic system of governance that is in place in Pakistan. Say, Mashallah. :)

Whats that you say? You won't accept Zardari as your Khalifah?