The road to renewal: After centuries of stagnation science is making a comeback in the Islamic worl

[Mullah Omar]

How do you know he wasnt 'hostile' towards religion? Because he had a beard and wore an Arabic dress?

No, because he was a muslim....(serious)

 

[awan4ever]

No, because he was a muslim....(serious)

Have you heard him proclaim his faith as a muslim despite his strong secular beliefs and his strong belief in Aristotelian philosophy?

Have you heard Hoodbhoy proclaim atheism as his belief?

 

[Mullah Omar]

Have you heard him proclaim his faith as a muslim despite his strong secular beliefs and his strong belief in Aristotelian philosophy?

Have you heard Hoodbhoy proclaim atheism as his belief?

No I have not heard Ibn Rushd proclaim his faith but it's a known fact he was a muslim and who said he had secular beliefs? In fact what are secular beliefs? As for Hoodbhoy again its obvious he's an atheist however if you wish to believe he is muslim then please do so.

 

[modern.fakir]

Totally agreed ....guys like hoodboy who belong to the "liberal extremist" mindset must first be re-habilitated with a proper understanding of Islam before being allowed to poison young minds with their useless rubbish !

There is a dire need of scientific advancement in islamic world but we should be wary of atheists like Hoodbhoy who use science as tools to discredit religion.

 

[modern.fakir]

This is contradictory ...you yourself has posted an article which clearly shows how religion of Islam actually fosters creative thinking. And most of the personalities mentioned were Muslims and great scientists...which is the right path to development.

The changes coming in Islamic world with regards to science are within the MUSLIM and ISLAMIC SPHERE of people.

Guys like hoodboy need to first straighten their atheistic faith out before coming up and explaining how science relates to Islam. When one does not know or understand islam how can you reconcile it ??(bigsmile)(bigsmile)

This is exactly why we have no advancement in science because we have to be 'vary' of every other person who has something to say which we dont agree with.
The reason Muslims led the world in science in the middle ages is because people had greater respect for controversial views like that of Ibne Rushd and everyone was given a space in society despite their beliefs.

 

[awan4ever]

This is contradictory ...you yourself has posted an article which clearly shows how religion of Islam actually fosters creative thinking. And most of the personalities mentioned were Muslims and great scientists...which is the right path to development.

The changes coming in Islamic world with regards to science are within the MUSLIM and ISLAMIC SPHERE of people.

Guys like hoodboy need to first straighten their atheistic faith out before coming up and explaining how science relates to Islam. When one does not know or understand islam how can you reconcile it ??(bigsmile)(bigsmile)

Unlike in ancient times todays scientists are not polymaths with a deep knowledge of several different branches of knowledge. Therefore you cannot ask for all phds in physics,chemistry,math to also be well versed in islamic theology.
Therefore take what every individual has to offer and use it for the advancement of knowledge. I havent heard Israeli scientist being asked to "reform" his views according to judaism if he or she wishes to serve in the jewish state so why do we have to question our individuals.

Ibne rushd was mobbed out of Andalus after philosophy was regarded as a useless waste of time by the state. He died in morroco but his body was later returned to cordoba for burial.

 

[modern.fakir]

Contemporary liberal extremists and atheist lovers have very little in the name of ACTUAL "heroes" who they can look up to (bigsmile) Hence they have to settle for contemporary thinkers of the Islamic world who may have written a book on some artistotlian philosophy as a way of narrating their atheistic values to those personalities.

First they should define how do you proclaim "atheism" ...or are they talking about again using the Islamic Model of "proclamation" to ratify their religion :lol::lol:

In either of the cases one can see which "ism" is an INNOVATION :lol:

Have you heard him proclaim his faith as a muslim despite his strong secular beliefs and his strong belief in Aristotelian philosophy?

Have you heard Hoodbhoy proclaim atheism as his belief?

 

[awan4ever]

Contemporary liberal extremists and atheist lovers have very little in the name of ACTUAL "heroes" who they can look up to (bigsmile) Hence they have to settle for contemporary thinkers of the Islamic world who may have written a book on some artistotlian philosophy as a way of narrating their atheistic values to those personalities.

First they should define how do you proclaim "atheism" ...or are they talking about again using the Islamic Model of "proclamation" to ratify their religion :lol::lol:

In either of the cases one can see which "ism" is an INNOVATION :lol:

If anyone here understands what this guy is going on about please do let me know.

Many thanks.


oh...here are a few pointless smilies to keep you entertained (bigsmile):lol:(clap)

 

[modern.fakir]

Maybe not so far BUT thats not say that we cannot produce or rehabilitate scientists of the future to be well versed in both scientific and Islamic theology.:)

We in a way already do that. When we teach our kids Islamic studies along with other subjects in High School, then why cant we continue that concept to PHD levels. Already in university students are bombarded with a "Broad" 2 semester based 4 year degree with seemingly secular subjects ...then why cant we add a religious component as opposed to some of the utter useless courses we teach our kids.

Look up any accounting designation and it has an ETHICS course and then ethics components embedded in ALL its courses. Now seemingly accounting and ethics are two different disciplines BUT they are brought together for a complete reformation of knowledge as in accounting and internal reformation as in ethics.

Modern education needs to be modelled the same way. Religion plus science and any other subject and then we will have true geniouses.

Jews have not asked for reconciliation between science and religion then why did the secular jews of europe form a RELIGIOUS STATE called ISRAEL ?? (bigsmile)

Maybe you didnt hear something !

Unlike in ancient times todays scientists are not polymaths with a deep knowledge of several different branches of knowledge. Therefore you cannot ask for all phds in physics,chemistry,math to also be well versed in islamic theology.
Therefore take what every individual has to offer and use it for the advancement of knowledge. I havent heard Israeli scientist being asked to "reform" his views according to judaism if he or she wishes to serve in the jewish state so why do we have to question our individuals.

Ibne rushd was mobbed out of Andalus after philosophy was regarded as a useless waste of time by the state. He died in morroco but his body was later returned to cordoba for burial.

 

[awan4ever]

Maybe not so far BUT thats not say that we cannot produce or rehabilitate scientists of the future to be well versed in both scientific and Islamic theology.:)

We in a way already do that. When we teach our kids Islamic studies along with other subjects in High School, then why cant we continue that concept to PHD levels. Already in university students are bombarded with a "Broad" 2 semester based 4 year degree with seemingly secular subjects ...then why cant we add a religious component as opposed to some of the utter useless courses we teach our kids.

Look up any accounting designation and it has an ETHICS course and then ethics components embedded in ALL its courses. Now seemingly accounting and ethics are two different disciplines BUT they are brought together for a complete reformation of knowledge as in accounting and internal reformation as in ethics.

Modern education needs to be modelled the same way. Religion plus science and any other subject and then we will have true geniouses.

Jews have not asked for reconciliation between science and religion then why did the secular jews of europe form a RELIGIOUS STATE called ISRAEL ?? (bigsmile)

Maybe you didnt hear something !

Jews have not asked for reconciliation between science and religion then why did the secular jews of europe form a RELIGIOUS STATE called ISRAEL ??

Many of them reconcile with their historical identity because they have been persecuted fr being born jews and not necessarily for being practicing jews.

 

[lurker]

You can credit The mongols for 'breaking the back of Islam'. When they sacked Baghdad, they not only destroyed the Abbasid Khilafat, they dealt Islam a blow unlike anyone has ever dealt a blow. They made all muslims from there on useless in Science and Education. The anecdotes say that the river in Baghdad turned black by the ink of the books that were thrown into it. After that incident, the Muslims didn't bother with education and sciences.. all they cared about was.. "Gotta re-establish a Khilafat.. gotta get me a Khilafah... Gotta finish by 5 time prayer. Gotta do Hajj.. Gotta sacrifice a Goat... Gotta finish the Quran as many times as I can.. Gotta produce offsprings, as many as I can.. Don't worry about anything else, "Allah Maalik hai." While there were universities being erected all over Europe, the Muslims were still trying to erect Mosques. The result is what you have today. And the rest of the world is completely OK with that. (clap)

 

[modern.fakir]

Right ..but the point is that in any state formation the ideology of the state plays the role of the Philosophy, and when talking about PHD's then philosophy or philosophical science is being reconciled with religion if the resulting entity is a RELIGIOUS STATE !:)

Many of them reconcile with their historical identity because they have been persecuted fr being born jews and not necessarily for being practicing jews.

 

[awan4ever]

Right ..but the point is that in any state formation the ideology of the state plays the role of the Philosophy, and when talking about PHD's then philosophy or philosophical science is being reconciled with religion if the resulting entity is a RELIGIOUS STATE !:)

If you think a hundred percent of the residents of this mythical perfect religious state will be perfect muslims then what can i say. There will always be some people who will see things a different way and as long as they do not actively pursue fitna causing activity they have every right to live there. Final arbitration is with God alone.

 

[warraich001]

Ok I'm convinced hoodbhoy is an atheist but if you know for a fact that he's a muslim then good for you.

(yapping)"fatwohon wali machinon"

 

[modern.fakir]

I agree with you ...i think you are stating the same thing with a different approach. I would just add that having a different opinion is not reason for any reprimand as long as it is not a deliberate attempt to mock the ideology of that state. Even in secular states no one tolerates that !

If you think a hundred percent of the residents of this mythical perfect religious state will be perfect muslims then what can i say. There will always be some people who will see things a different way and as long as they do not actively pursue fitna causing activity they have every right to live there. Final arbitration is with God alone.

 

[awan4ever]

I agree with you ...i think you are stating the same thing with a different approach. I would just add that having a different opinion is not reason for any reprimand as long as it is not a deliberate attempt to mock the ideology of that state. Even in secular states no one tolerates that !

The word "mock the state ideology" can be used very loosely to subjugate dissent.
Anyway to each his own.

 

[modern.fakir]

Thats life right ...in an Islamic state fairness rules in light of the laws of the Quran and Sunnah and in a secular one everything else (bigsmile)

The word "mock the state ideology" can be used very loosely to subjugate dissent.
Anyway to each his own.

 

[lurker]

Thats life right ...in an Islamic state fairness rules in light of the laws of the Quran and Sunnah and in a secular one everything else (bigsmile)

Why would a non-muslim residing in an islamic state consider the Quran and Sunnah fair? Khair thats another discussion.

Coming back to this particular one, to highlight the predicament of the Muslim - just ask any Pakistani - Are you Pakistani first and Muslim later or Muslim first and Pakistani later? And when you ask them, What do you follow first, Science or your Faith?

 

[modern.fakir]

It doesnt make a difference in this case ..be it whatever state a non-muslim lives in they have to respect the law of the state. Does a secular state tolerate its laws being broken ??..(bigsmile)

Hence in an Islamic State ..the Quran and Sunnah pbuh rule !

Lurker, I think you need a crash course in Pakistan studies [hilar][hilar]...

Pak in Pakistan means "Tayyab" ..which is the first kalima of Islam "La illaha Ill Allah Muhammadur RasoolAllah". "Stan" in Persian means land. So in other words it is the "Land of the Pure" or people of the kalima!(bigsmile)

You cannot be a Pakistani if you dont believe in the above mentioned tenet. Pakistan was made for Islam, Pakistani and Muslim are two traits of the Ideology of Islam.

And the everyone be it Muslim or Non-Muslim is protected under this Pakistan under the Rules of Islam ;)...Think about it :lol:

The ideology whether your this first or that first is satanic and confusion !...Can you go within people to see what they are first ??

Why would a non-muslim residing in an islamic state consider the Quran and Sunnah fair? Khair thats another discussion.

Coming back to this particular one, to highlight the predicament of the Muslim - just ask any Pakistani - Are you Pakistani first and Muslim later or Muslim first and Pakistani later? And when you ask them, What do you follow first, Science or your Faith?

 

[lurker]

Hence in an Islamic State ..the Quran and Sunnah pbuh rule !

These things don't work anymore when it comes to state craft. And the reason being is that you don't have the muslims anymore to make it work. ;)

Pak in Pakistan means "Tayyab" ..which is the first kalima of Islam "La illaha Ill Allah Muhammadur RasoolAllah". "Stan" in Persian means land. So in other words it is the "Land of the Pure" or people of the kalima!(bigsmile)
You cannot be a Pakistani if you dont believe in the above mentioned tenet. Pakistan was made for Islam, Pakistani and Muslim are two traits of the Ideology of Islam.
And the everyone be it Muslim or Non-Muslim is protected under this Pakistan under the Rules of Islam ;)...Think about it :lol:
The ideology whether your this first or that first is satanic and confusion !...Can you go within people to see what they are first ??

Pakistan can mean Nancy or Suzie for all I care; I only care about what Jinnah said. Sometimes I think Jinnah would have a hard time fitting himself in Pakistan, especially in relation to Article 62 in the constitution of Pakistan. A Nation that backstabbed its founding father's legacy and vision cannot possibly prosper.

Khair, why don't you tell us why Muslims are sooooo sooooo not successful in Science since the past couple of hundred years?