Stealth Helos Used In Osama Raid

biomat

Minister (2k+ posts)


Posted by Bill Sweetman at 5/3/2011 11:14 AM CDT
Well, now we know why all of us had trouble ID'ing the helicopter that crashed, or was brought down, in the Osama raid.


It was a secretly developed stealth helicopter, probably a highly modified version of an H-60 Blackhawk. Photos published in the Daily Mail and on the Secret Projects board show that the helicopter's tail features stealth-configured shapes on the boom and tip fairings, swept stabilizers and a "dishpan" cover over a non-standard five-or-six-blade tail rotor. It has a silver-loaded infra-red suppression finish similar to that seen on some V-22s.

No wonder the team tried to destroy it. The photos show that they did a thorough job - except for the end of the tailboom, which ended up outside the compound wall. (It almost looks as if the helo's tail hit the wall on landing.)

Stealth helicopter technology in itself is not new and was applied extensively to the RAH-66 Comanche. Priorities are usually different versus fixed-wing aircraft. Reducing noise and making it less conspicuous is the first job (more main and tail blades reduce the classic whop-whop signature). Listen here.

Noise can also be reduced by aerodynamic modifications and flight control changes that make it possible to slow the rotor down, particularly in forward flight below maximum speed. Infra-red reduction measures are crucial -- the Comanche had an elaborate system of exhaust ducts and fresh-air mixers in its tailboom.


Radar cross-section reduction is also possible - you can't make a helo as radar-stealthy as a fixed-wing airplane, because of all its moving parts, but on the other hand it is generally operating at low altitude in ground clutter, and is not an easy target. Reducing RCS also makes jamming more effective, whether from the aircraft itself or from a standoff jammer.

The willingness to compromise this technology shows the importance of the mission in the eyes of US commanders -- and what we're seeing here also explains why Pakistani defenses didn't see the first wave (at least) coming in.
 

EniGma90

Minister (2k+ posts)
bro i got, it wasn't commache at all, bcoz its production was halted in 2004 and they are not in service. Its MH-60 BlackHawk..

black-hawk-bin-ladenraid.jpg


A variety of factors could have led to the crash or hard landing of one of the helicopters that helped carry out the raid that killed Osama Bin Laden yesterday. First off, weve heard reports that the choppers used in the raid, which apparently involved a total of about 40 operators, were a mix of MH-60 Black Hawks and MH-47 Chinooks. Both of which are flown by the Armys 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment. The AFP picture above shows what appears to be the tail section of an MH-60 draped over a wall at Bin Ladens compound. There are still no reports of U.S. casualties during the raid, which is impressive given the image above.

Read more: http://defensetech.org/2011/05/02/the-mh-60-crash-at-bin-ladens-house/#ixzz1LShd2z4v
Defense.org


From page of Blackhawk in wiki,

MH-60? Black Hawk Stealth: The 1 May 2011 raid on Osama bin Laden in Pakistan by two MH-60s [73][74] of the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment,[75] resulting in the loss of one, damaged after a hard landing when it reportedly struck the compound wall, is destroyed by the special operations force, with the team members departing on two CH-47 Chinooks [76] with bin Laden's remains. [77] Subsequent reports state that the Blackhawk destroyed was a previously unconfirmed, but rumored, stealth modification of the design.
 
Last edited:

rana14801

Senator (1k+ posts)
US is far ahead in war technalogy and i think it is very difficult for us to counter it. so when rape is inevtable than it is better to relaxe and enjoy or show such unity which could deter them and they dare not try it.here our leadership and public opinion is diffrent.
 

aqeel813

Minister (2k+ posts)
US is far ahead in war technalogy and i think it is very difficult for us to counter it. so when rape is inevtable than it is better to relaxe and enjoy or show such unity which could deter them and they dare not try it.here our leadership and public opinion is diffrent.



Aap kabi nakaam nai hotay aaj kal k daur mein rana sahab!!! kya nafa nuqsaan wali soch paai hai janab!!!
 

behzadji

Minister (2k+ posts)
US is far ahead in war technalogy and i think it is very difficult for us to counter it. so when rape is inevtable than it is better to relaxe and enjoy or show such unity which could deter them and they dare not try it.here our leadership and public opinion is diffrent.

kia iss se achi example nahi thi aap ki pitaari main..........ddishhhhh
 

alpha

MPA (400+ posts)
US Forces may have used "Suter" in Abbotabad Operation

I am suspecting that they have used the following
"israel used "Suiter" against syria on 6 sept 2007. The MQ1 predator equiped with same suiter pod is loitering across our radar systems and C31 infrastructure.
U.S. aerospace industry and retired military officials indicated today that a technology like the U.S.-developed Suter airborne network attack system developed by BAE Systems and integrated into U.S. unmanned aircraft by L-3 Communications was used by the Israelis. The system has been used or at least tested operationally in Iraq and Afghanistan over the last year.
The technology allows users to invade communications networks, see what enemy sensors see and even take over as systems administrator so sensors can be manipulated into positions so that approaching aircraft cant be seen, they say. The process involves locating enemy emitters with great precision and then directing data streams into them that can include false targets and misleading messages algorithms that allow a number of activities including control "

You may google it and will find out what happened on 6 Sep 2007 in syria.
 

alpha

MPA (400+ posts)
Re: US Forces may have used "Suter" in Abbotabad Operation

I would like to have some comments, no stupid comments please, its serious .....
 

alpha

MPA (400+ posts)
Re: US Forces may have used "Suter" in Abbotabad Operation

EXPLOIT IT WITH SUTER

Once NCCT localises and identifies the target, Senior Suter goes to work. The Suter technology enables USAF operators to invade enemy communications and computer networks, particularly those associated with integrated air defence systems, while preventing enemy operators from understanding or counteracting the exact nature of the invasion.

First, the Suter technology pinpoints the actual antennas that are creating the emissions. The actual precision of the location is not known, but a reasonable guess is that Suter reduces the target zone initially calculated by NCCT by at least an order of magnitude, which implies tens of feet if not single digits.

After pinpointing the target antennas, Suter then performs its real magic – beaming electronic pulses into the antennas that effectively corrupt, if not hijack, the processing systems that present the enemy operators with their physical picture of the battlefield.

Unlike classic jamming or EMP attacks, these data streams do not flood enemy electronics with excess 'noise' or power, but instead insert customised signals, including specialised algorithms and malware, into the vulnerable processing nodes.

Continuing the viral analogy, network invaders can then extend their 'e-tack' from network to network until they reach the target's communications loop. "Whether the network is wireless or wired doesn't matter anymore," says one expert.

"Suter beams electronic pulses into the antennas that effectively corrupt, if not hijack, the enemy processing systems."
Corruption of an ADS network does not involve actual control over the system or its components, but rather the insertion of misleading data. In conceptual terms, such false positives, including the fabrication of phantom targets and fake messages, are the most traditional form of corruption.

In contrast with WWII-style aluminium chaff or Cold War-style radar echo replication, Suter technology entirely bypasses the enemy's radar wave machinery per se, instead inserting garbage information into the late-stage signal processing and communications functions.

Hijacking an ADS network goes a step beyond corruption in that Suter operators can then act as replacement managers to control enemy radars, just as a co-pilot can take over from a captain and fly a plane. By steering the enemy sensors away from friendly aircraft, Suter operators can figuratively put blinders on the enemy operators. Consequently, friendly aircraft don't even have to be stealthy because enemy sensors can't scan to find them, like eyes that can focus but can't rotate.

Whether Suter technicians can actually accomplish the hijacking task without alerting the enemy operators is, not surprisingly, a question that has no definitive answer, and moreover often seems to be suppressed. However, even if the operators know they're being hijacked, regaining control of the system is not necessarily easy. The enemy's problem is akin to playing a video game like Grand Theft Auto on a glitchy computer, except that the glitches are deliberate and occur so as to cause maximum disruption.

SUTER TASKS AND PLATFORMS

As with any cybernetic system, Suter has two generic parts: one for inserting input and one for monitoring output. Working with BAE Systems, the USAF used two programmatic blocks to develop these components, which basically operate through two specialised platforms.

Block one encompasses the output collection task. Technology from this block allows friendly operators to monitor what enemy radars see. By itself, this technology enables the USAF to measure the baseline capability of adversarial units in general and assess the specific impact of USAF countermeasures, from passive techniques such as terrain-masking flight profiles to active techniques such as Suter input.

"Suter technology entirely bypasses the enemy's radar wave machinery."
The main platform for this collection task is the RC-135 Rivet Joint electronic surveillance aircraft. Rivet Joint is based on the venerable KC-135 strategic tanker airframe, designed for high altitudes, fast subsonic speeds, and long ranges or loiter times.

The highly modified R (for reconnaissance) platform can therefore carry aloft for extended periods the large quantities of gear necessary to perform passive monitoring.

Block two encompasses the input insertion task. Technology from this block allows friendly operators to seize control of enemy networks via complex algorithms, become de facto system managers, and thus physically manipulate enemy sensors. Such manipulation most likely involves control over the electromagnetic vectoring of radar beam produced by the non-rotating SAR (synthetic aperture radar), but it might also involve mechanical shifts of the array panels away from bearings that would point toward friendly aircraft.

The main platform for this insertion task is the EC-130 Compass Call electronic attack aircraft. Compass Call is based on the equally venerable C-130 Hercules tactical cargo transport. Relative to Rivet Joint, Compass Call flies lower, slower, and shorter, but this profile maximises the aiming precision of the Compass Call's signal beams, which have to flood a critical area measured in meters from a distance of several kilometres – analogous to shooting someone exactly between the eyes from 80ft away.

Israel replicated the system architecture of blocks 1 and 2 when it deployed its two new Gulfstream G550 special mission aircraft models. The intelligence version monitors hostile signals traffic, while the surveillance version pumps out invasive data streams from onboard phased-array radars.

More recently, the Suter programme added a block 3, which focuses specifically on penetrating networks controlling time-critical and tactically elusive targets, such mobile missile launchers. Block 3 does not add new tasks, but rather refines Suter technology to meet more stringent mission requirements.

DELIVERING THE PACKAGE: IF YOU CAN'T UNLOCK IT, SOCK IT

Although not part of the NCCT or Suter programmes as such, the USAF network attack package also includes the F-16CJ, which focuses on suppressing enemy air defences using traditional weapons, i.e. kinetic impactors and explosive munitions.

"Even if the operators know they're being hijacked, regaining control of the system is not easy."
Should the Suter electronic attack fail, which could mean many things depending on mission parameters, the F-16CJ can electronically jam or destroy enemy radar and communications assets the old-fashioned way, using anti-radiation missiles or other PGMs.

Of course, Compass Call could jam enemy radar too, but that would be equivalent to killing someone with a machine gun by using it as a club.

Also, to the extent that electronically foiling enemy air defences is just a way of creating unimpeded access to hostile airspace, the F-16CJ can fulfil the underlying mission by attacking the ultimate target with traditional weapons. For that matter, all F-16s retain the underlying dogfighting capabilities of the original Falcon version, in case hostile air defences actually include fighter aircraft.

In most cases, however, F-15 aircraft would undertake the primary air superiority task. Later Eagle models, most notably the F-15E, also have sophisticated ground attack capabilities, so either the Falcons or Eagles can execute attacks on the terminal ground target.

PUTTING IT ALL TOGETHER

In executing the 6 September raid, the IAF apparently used many of the offensive options mentioned above. According to US observers, the strike force used some traditional jamming, which is still an important means of defeating air defence systems.

The penetration of the Syrian ADS network involved both corrupting attacks, probably as part of the initial penetration at Tall Abyad and to clear the flight path from there to Dayr az-Zawr, and hijacking of the broader system through viral propagation across the computer network. The strike force used traditional kinetic attacks against some of the Syrian assets at Tall Abyad, and obviously destroyed the ultimate target at Dayr az-Zawr with explosive munitions.

Given that this raid was, at least officially, the first of its kind against a sovereign nation with comprehensive air defences, Israel prudently provided some indirect support for the raid in real time.

According to one intelligence source, Israel used network attack techniques to perform 'higher-level, non-tactical penetrations, either directly or as diversions and spoofs, of the [wider] Syrian command-and-control capability'. Whether Israel conducted these penetrations using the NCCT / Suter package, other military means, Mossad-style clandestine operations, or even pure civilian 'geek-style' hacking is unknown.

"Syria's ADS network is centralised, which is an invitation to disaster without a network firewall."
Israel's pre-strike preparation should not be ignored. In particular, Israel launched the IAI-built Ofek-7 reconnaissance satellite, which gives Israeli intelligence specialists site and system mapping capability of unprecedented accuracy, during summer 2007 – a month or two before the raid.

Moreover, as long ago as the Bekaa Valley engagements in 1982, Israel has used unmanned drones to provoke Syrian surface-to-air missile (SAM) systems into 'lighting up' and thus revealing their emissions signatures to lurking sensor platforms, such as Rivet Joint.

Regarding the direct strike, though, the NCCT / Suter package was remarkably pure. Israel apparently did not attack Syria's electrical grid, like the US attacks on Belgrade during the Balkan conflict. Nor, evidently, was the raid supported by spec-ops ground actions or UAV deployments.

In fact, a key factor in the success of the raid was probably the architecture of the Syrian ADS itself. Although the Syrian ADS is extensive in all respects, the quality of the systems deployed is uneven.

More importantly, Syria's ADS network is centralised, which is an invitation to disaster without a network firewall. Also, Syria's ADS communicates on dedicated frequencies, which implies that IAF operators knew exactly where, when and how to find it on the radio dial – even before the raid started

http://www.airforce-technology.com/features/feature1669/
 

Raaz

(50k+ posts) بابائے فورم
Re: US Forces may have used "Suter" in Abbotabad Operation

I would like to have some comments, no stupid comments please, its serious .....

Sorry , I never used this kind of toilet paper...
 

Resonant

MPA (400+ posts)
Re: US Forces may have used "Suter" in Abbotabad Operation

Last year china did a successful experiment of destroying a satellite by mesile....I think, Pakistan should develop this technology and destry all foreigner satellites hovoring in its space.
 

alpha

MPA (400+ posts)
Re: US Forces may have used "Suter" in Abbotabad Operation

Bro, the satellite is totally a different stuff, but we need to understand this phenomenon, as per my information the cellular network was also out of service at that particular time...

This kind of stuff is used when you want to gain time from your enemy, and thats what they did, though our forces reacted but by that time the damage was already done ...

Last year china did a successful experiment of destroying a satellite by mesile....I think, Pakistan should develop this technology and destry all foreigner satellites hovoring in its space.
 

Ali Sidhu

New Member
Re: US Forces may have used "Suter" in Abbotabad Operation

Gentle men this whole Abbotsford drama is a Hoex.CIA & Mosad are famous pulling these kind of stunts.Look at the 911 stunt.And these wont be last ones.Pakistanis must get their head out of sand.How stupid can one be when one is helping its enemy and destroying ones owen country.
 

biomat

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: US Forces may have used "Suter" in Abbotabad Operation

Bro alpha
Assalam-o-alaikum
Can that SUTER shutdown electricity.. As electric was down..
So if we accept all this, then lets say ISRAEL WILL ATTACK KAHOTA using this technology & escape with in 1.25hrs using US TAIL & TAGS.. There will be radiation leaks & SHOCK & AWE that either US, ISRAEL or INDIA did it.
If our armed forces are sitting duck in front of technology. Then whats the use of all those videos of HATAF MISSILES.
Please share some serious facts. How to counter it or our armed forces can..
If we rely on US technology then they will jamm it for sure. As one senator asked why we give F-16 to Pakistan. They can use it on us & Israel. They replied that we have made sure that it will not work on us or our freinds..
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...
 

Wadaich

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Re: US Forces may have used "Suter" in Abbotabad Operation

Bro alpha
Assalam-o-alaikum
Can that SUTER shutdown electricity.. As electric was down..
So if we accept all this, then lets say ISRAEL WILL ATTACK KAHOTA using this technology & escape with in 1.25hrs using US TAIL & TAGS.. There will be radiation leaks & SHOCK & AWE that either US, ISRAEL or INDIA did it.
If our armed forces are sitting duck in front of technology. Then whats the use of all those videos of HATAF MISSILES.
Please share some serious facts. How to counter it or our armed forces can..
If we rely on US technology then they will jamm it for sure. As one senator asked why we give F-16 to Pakistan. They can use it on us & Israel. They replied that we have made sure that it will not work on us or our freinds..
SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...

100% agreed Bro.
 

digitalzygot

Senator (1k+ posts)
Re: US Forces may have used "Suter" in Abbotabad Operation

This is the reason I am not in favour of F-16, j-10b and j-11 are better options and in next 5-8 years get j-20.
 

crankthskunk

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: US Forces may have used "Suter" in Abbotabad Operation

Last year china did a successful experiment of destroying a satellite by mesile....I think, Pakistan should develop this technology and destry all foreigner satellites hovoring in its space.

Ahhhhh now you talking, and who says Pakistan already not have the technology? Pakistan was ready to conduct a re-entry vehicle, which would allow them to test the technology used by China. I don't know what happened to it, but it is possible that the parameters could be tested in the simulation or jointly with China. I am sure Pakistan is already there or there about.

But that technology can only be used for big wars, when the big war happens, God forbid, you will see many satellites going off in the space.

Satellite go around earth orbit, some of them are stationary, but I don't think Americans have Pakistan specific satellites, Indian may do now, they have sent few new satellites in the orbit.

As per my knowledge Pakistan may have develop one or two other technologies with China, but I am not at liberty to discuss it at the movement, unless Pakistan makes it public.
 

crankthskunk

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: US Forces may have used "Suter" in Abbotabad Operation

By the way, I do not think, suter was used, they didn't need to, Pakistanis were on board, on ground and helped in the operation 100%.
 

digitalzygot

Senator (1k+ posts)
Re: US Forces may have used "Suter" in Abbotabad Operation

If you look at it in this way-US exposed their most potent weapon and it won't be long when Pakistanis figure out how it was done(technology wise) also steath variant of Balck hawks(am pretty sure it will be in military research factories), they violated our air space but we have learned a lesson or two about latest lethal technology.

THIS WILL APPLY IF PAKISTANIS DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT, IF THEY DID WHOLE DIFFERENT SITUATION.
 

pakistan_pak

MPA (400+ posts)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-13297846

'Stealth helicopters' used in Bin Laden raid
By Tom Geoghegan and Sarah Shenker
BBC News
The US forces who raided the safehouse of Osama Bin Laden appear to have caught him completely by surprise - and to have avoided detection by Pakistani radar. How did they do it?

One answer, experts believe, is that the special operations team used previously unseen stealth helicopters.


Continue reading the main story
1. Silver finish makes it harder to detect on radar and by infrared sensors

2. Shape of tailboom has been altered and possibly enlarged to evade radar

3. Pan-like cover or hubcap over the rear rotor head conceals exposed machinery which is more easily picked up on radar

4. Extra blades on tail rotor reduce noise and lessen typical chopper sound

Rest of aircraft: There is speculation that the main rotor could also have had extra blades, retractable landing gear and a cover over the main rotor head

Source: Aviation Week

The evidence for this comes from images of the wreckage of one of the helicopters, which departing Seals destroyed after it crash landed in the compound.

The tail of the top secret aircraft survived, providing a treasure chest of clues for aviation experts.

After some detective work, these experts have concluded it was a UH-60 Blackhawk, heavily modified to make it quieter and less visible to radar.

They are confident the raid marks the first time that a stealth helicopter has been used operationally.

It wouldn't be the first of its kind in existence, however. Sikorsky Aircraft built a number of prototype stealth helicopters, known as the RAH-66 Comanche, for the US Army. The programme was cancelled in 2004, due to escalating costs, before the helicopter become operational.


The RAH-66 Comanche had some stealth technologies
"What's new here is this was operational use," says Bill Sweetman, editor of Aviation Week. "We really haven't seen stealth helicopters used in this way before.

"The bottom line is about increasing the element of surprise. The less warning that the target has the better."

In this kind of situation an escape route for the aircraft might be needed, he adds, in which case time is of the essence.

To make a helicopter stealthy, you have to get rid of certain shapes and areas that are easily picked up on radar, says Tony Osborne, deputy editor of Rotorhub, a UK-based helicopter magazine.


Children collected parts of the wreckage
"You have to cover key parts so that the radar waves bounce in different directions or get absorbed...

"The tail rotor gearbox is covered. I've never seen that before in a helicopter. We know things are being played with all the time, but it is impressive to see it put into action."

The tail fin is completely smooth and appears coated in a pearlescent material that looks silver in some lights, and black in others, says Mr Osborne.

"I've only ever seen that on stealth aeroplanes, and it would probably absorb radar waves. Even the rivets are covered - radars are very sensitive and small rivets could give it away.

"The tail boom remains suggest the landing gear was retractable - again, usually it could be detected by radar, so retracting it would help avoid radar detection.

Continue reading the main story
And don't forget the dogs...

Several reports say an unidentified canine was strapped to a human member of the Seals team as he was lowered into the compound
It was most likely needed to check for hidden explosives
New York Times says it was most likely a German Shepherd or Belgian Malinois, according to military sources
"It looks like the tail rotor has five or six blades. This would mean the rotor could have a slower rotation, which would mean less noise. Noise is caused by the blade tips spinning at high speed, hitting the air."

Slipping under the radar can also be possible without stealth technology. Most of Pakistan's radars are on the ground, and therefore angled in such a way that makes low-flying aircraft difficult to detect, Mr Osborne says.

A Pakistani intelligence official who wished to remain anonymous told the BBC's Syed Shoaib Hasan that the helicopters were not picked up on radar and were only detected when seen entering the country from Afghanistan.

He said there were four helicopters, coming in very low.

There has been speculation that there was one more stealth helicopter, identical to the one that crashed, and that these were used as pathfinders, backed up by two larger Chinooks.