religious extremism must be tackled

[zaheerbabur]

I am doing this thread because earlier today on a separate thread a member called @MuslimPak mentioned to me that the Mazaar of Hazarat Quaid E Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah R.A. would be blown up to make the grave of the Quaid level with the ground. I am in a complete state of shock for people that hold such extremist views for the founder of the nation.

I feel Siasat.pk has a role to play not to facilitate such extremist views which are detrimental to our national interests and have a sectarian side and only seek to cause disharmony amongst us.

Moreover, there was a complete lack of sympathy and tolerance towards other sects. I really feel we must tackle such people that are using this forum to voice their barbaric views.

this is an unfortunate part of our society, it is full of this kind of filthy and non-sense people trained by jahil extremists Mullahs. its time to give a big shut up call to these ******** sons of Gen Zia.

 

[alimohsan52]

this is an unfortunate part of our society, it is full of this kind of filthy and non-sense people trained by jahil extremists Mullahs. its time to give a big shut up call to these ******** sons of Gen Zia.

I spent the whole night yesterday reasoning with Molana Sahab, in the end he said Pakistan Zindabad, however, I am not happy that someone would ever want to blow up the grave of the founder of the nation.

I still believe we need to reason with these people.

 

[BoneBasher]

I spent the whole night yesterday reasoning with Molana Sahab, in the end he said Pakistan Zindabad, however, I am not happy that someone would ever want to blow up the grave of the founder of the nation.

I still believe we need to reason with these people.

don't spend your precious time with these mullahs, there was a MQM jalsa today, so it is a suitable day for you to start threads against them;);)

 

[alimohsan52]

don't spend your precious time with these mullahs, there was a MQM jalsa today, so it is a suitable day for you to start threads against them;);)

What a Brilliant Idea Uncle!:):):):):)

 

[MuslimPak]

get over with this blowing up thing, no one said it , as you may see, I presented our view with hadeeth and proofs, and there are conditions who can carry out this act and it has to be from the governing body.

Now the day, a true islamic government comes in Pakistan, these things may be carried out with their approval. I am sorry you may not like that.

Stop trying continuously to present your opponents in this discussion as terrorists and get the unjust help from innocent readers of this thread.

I hope people see who is really extreme in his view.

I spent the whole night yesterday reasoning with Molana Sahab, in the end he said Pakistan Zindabad, however, I am not happy that someone would ever want to blow up the grave of the founder of the nation.

I still believe we need to reason with these people.

 

[alimohsan52]

get over with this blowing up thing, no one said it , as you may see, I presented our view with hadeeth and proofs, and there are conditions who can carry out this act and it has to be from the governing body.

Now the day, a true islamic government comes in Pakistan, these things may be carried out with their approval. I am sorry you may not like that.

Stop trying continuously to present your opponents in this discussion as terrorists and get the unjust help from innocent readers of this thread.

I hope people see who is really extreme in his view.

Hang on here not so fast,

If you want this done through the government, then the video which you posted yesterday was not done by the government!

Secondly, the very idea of the grave of the founder coming down is a non starter government or any other group.

 

[MuslimPak]

The video posted was of Ansar al shareeah demolishing a shrine, and for your information, they have their government in their area and full sharia in in application.

You never told us about your view on hadith presented ?

Hang on here not so fast,

If you want this done through the government, then the video which you posted yesterday was not done by the government!

Secondly, the very idea of the grave of the founder coming down is a non starter government or any other group.

 

[MuslimPak]

Hang on here not so fast,

If you want this done through the government, then the video which you posted yesterday was not done by the government!

Secondly, the very idea of the grave of the founder coming down is a non starter government or any other group.

 

[alimohsan52]

Molana Sahab

I will discuss this with you tomorrow I need to wake up at 6 am in the morning

 

[warraich001]

Firstly none of the Islamists like Saudi Monarchs. The first paragraph that you said about Saudi kings is correct but no one gets funding from Saudi Monarchs. Saudi public is religious and they are the ones funding Islamic activity in Pakistan but their government is trying its level best to stop that funding.

Secondly, Ghulam Ahmed Pervaiz is a khabees and he is out of the folds of Islam. I only said Jinnah never gave us Pakistan as Allah did and I never disgraced Jinnah. Jinnah played his part to get independence but the only mistake that he did was he left north India and Eastern India as they also had muslim majority prior to Independence. The real leaders of Muslim League were maulvis and they were the ones who spent their lives in Jails and faught against british. Jinnah joined Muslim League in the end but yes he did play his role for independence. Guess what, Jinnah's namaz e Janzah was lead by a Deobandi Aalim known as Maulana Shabbir Ahmed Usmani Rahmatullah.

Pakistan was made for Islam and if you hear Jinnah's speeches you will see that he never said Pakistan should be secular, he always said that Pakistani laws and society should be based on Quran and Sunnah (Which is Shariah). Jinnah spent his life as a secular but all he wanted for Pakistan is to become a true Islamic Falahi Riasat!

Those who speak against Islam and Shariah to be implemented in Pakistan are basically going against the vision and foundations of Pakistan and are going against Jinnah's vision as well. With so many diverse languages and cultures, Islam is the only thing that holds us together and if we loose Islam then with will witness more Bangladesh's. The separation of Bangladesh was on ethnic basis and if we had implemented Islam from the beginning, we would have East Pakistan with us till now and who know we might have a confederation with Afghanistan and we might have taken some more parts of India.

So for these reasons I request Secuarlists to leave Pakistan as they are the real enemies of Pakistan because they deny the foundations of Pakistan on which Pakistan was made. May Allah give us Hidayah before we die and may ALlah unite Pakistanis and Muslims all over the globe!

First of all no one is against Islamic Shariah........ but the thing is who will lead the country these so called leaders zardaris,sharifs or so called Islamic leaders fazlurehman or munawar hassan.......... do not we our selves say that these are thieves and looters....... if you say that there will be Khilafat system that who will lead...... from which sect there will be khalifa...... then who will choose Khalifa...... and plz do not say that these so called Talibans who have badly distorted the loving face of islam

 

[UKPakistani]

get over with this blowing up thing, no one said it , as you may see, I presented our view with hadeeth and proofs, and there are conditions who can carry out this act and it has to be from the governing body.

Now the day, a true islamic government comes in Pakistan, these things may be carried out with their approval. I am sorry you may not like that.

Stop trying continuously to present your opponents in this discussion as terrorists and get the unjust help from innocent readers of this thread.

I hope people see who is really extreme in his view.

Forget all the discussion here and answer me some simple questions

Who will bring such a Government in Pakistan

Will it be enforced and forced on 180 Million (and growing) people by few

Will they take on the Army and State Machinery of Pakistan to bring this about ?

What gives them this right ? THEIR interpretation of Islam ?

When was the last time such a Government as the one you wish for, existed in a Country as diverse as Pakistan,
in terms of Language culture history tradition and faith ?

who led it, how long did it last, and when did it fail and fall an why ?


What you descibe is nothing more than utopia and likely ONLY after Imam Mehdi has brought Peace to the World and that will be for ALL humanity, not Pakistan

so sorry but stop deluding yourself and others, about what is possible in Pakistan, and do something about what is, not what YOU wish for.

There is NOT a single human being alive who can change Pakistan to what YOU think it shoud be, not you, or anyone who thinks like you.

 

[awan4ever]

Towards the end of the report the major problem of actually feeding the people comes under discussion and it is ironic that the mullahs running the show have to take aid from ICRC to feed their 'riaayaa'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Committee_of_the_Red_Cross#Funding_and_financial_matters

The ICRC is majorly funded by...yes thats right..the US of A.

Why isnt this food "harraaaaammm" for the momin warriors I wonder. ;)


Tags: [MENTION=25067]BuTurabi[/MENTION] , [MENTION=14890]mrk123[/MENTION] , [MENTION=9623]moazzamniaz[/MENTION]

 

[A.G.Uddin]

Firstly none of the Islamists like Saudi Monarchs. The first paragraph that you said about Saudi kings is correct but no one gets funding from Saudi Monarchs. Saudi public is religious and they are the ones funding Islamic activity in Pakistan but their government is trying its level best to stop that funding.

Secondly, Ghulam Ahmed Pervaiz is a khabees and he is out of the folds of Islam. I only said Jinnah never gave us Pakistan as Allah did and I never disgraced Jinnah. Jinnah played his part to get independence but the only mistake that he did was he left north India and Eastern India as they also had muslim majority prior to Independence. The real leaders of Muslim League were maulvis and they were the ones who spent their lives in Jails and faught against british. Jinnah joined Muslim League in the end but yes he did play his role for independence. Guess what, Jinnah's namaz e Janzah was lead by a Deobandi Aalim known as Maulana Shabbir Ahmed Usmani Rahmatullah.

Pakistan was made for Islam and if you hear Jinnah's speeches you will see that he never said Pakistan should be secular, he always said that Pakistani laws and society should be based on Quran and Sunnah (Which is Shariah). Jinnah spent his life as a secular but all he wanted for Pakistan is to become a true Islamic Falahi Riasat!

Those who speak against Islam and Shariah to be implemented in Pakistan are basically going against the vision and foundations of Pakistan and are going against Jinnah's vision as well. With so many diverse languages and cultures, Islam is the only thing that holds us together and if we loose Islam then with will witness more Bangladesh's. The separation of Bangladesh was on ethnic basis and if we had implemented Islam from the beginning, we would have East Pakistan with us till now and who know we might have a confederation with Afghanistan and we might have taken some more parts of India.

So for these reasons I request Secuarlists to leave Pakistan as they are the real enemies of Pakistan because they deny the foundations of Pakistan on which Pakistan was made. May Allah give us Hidayah before we die and may ALlah unite Pakistanis and Muslims all over the globe!

I have emboldened few sentences from your post in order to clarify.

You say Saudis have nothing to do with funding.Well,didn't petrodollars arrive at the time of so-called Jihad against Soviet Union.Aren't groups like Sipah-e-Sahaba getting money from Saudi Arabia?What about Wikileaks cables where this Saudi diplomat said in an embassy that Pakistan is our own yard?Didn't Saudi kings spend any money or contribution in killing Shia brothers in Iraq and Bahrain?

Regarding Pervaiz sahab whom you call a Khabees and throwing out of Islam,he played an active role during Pakistan Movement infront of all those religious clerics that issued fatwas against our country.Pervaiz sahab did all his works via writing journals. Unfortunately, Mullahs of Pakistan would later censor/hide his legacy afterwards esp. after his death. And if you consider him someone who favoured Indian or Western pattern of Democracy and Secularism,here's something for your own knowledge.

Tolu-e-Islam's literature is essentially directed towards individuals who are in
search of truth so that they can overcome the forces of secularism and be able
to establish a pure Quranic society, wherever they may be.

Unfortunately, "Khilafat Ala Minhaj-e-Risalat" did not continue because of the
introduction of monarchy. Thus the system of Deen disappeared which, in turn,
led to the disintegration of the Ummah. During the period of "Khilafat Ala
Minhaj-e-Risalat", all matters (secular and temporal) were under the system of
Deen. After the disintegration of the Ummah, a dualism was created which
separated religion and politics. That trend continues till today.

http://www.tolueislam.org/

Moreover,if you haven't read any work of Pervaiz sahab and issuing titles against him then it's your own myopic view.Mullahs declared him Murtid but couldn't compete with his capabilities for decades. These guys believe is saying Takfir more than Takbir.

And regarding combining entire North India,Bangladesh and Afghanistan as a confederation sorry ISLAMIC CONFEDERATION,didn't Ghauri,Ghaznavi, and Mughals did the same i.e. conquering these parts? And I am sorry if you believe that there was an Islamic rule in Indo-Pak Subcontinent for 1000 years.Kindly listen to Hassan Nisar and get enlightened,hope he's still a Muslim in your view.Didn't Khilafat based in Turkey control so many countries,was there no bloodshed at that time? For centuries Muslim armies were killing each other. Why did Muslim rulers cut each other throats in the Subcontinent itself? Did they ALL live like a big happy family for even a decade?
And it's not about quantity/population or area you control. Norway is not an Islamic country and is even smaller than Pakistan in terms of population and size.Plus, they aren't even a Nuclear power yet.But What makes them positioned at the top of the list when it comes to quality of life worldwide.It's their ideals,principles,and respect and dignity of law and a common man living there.

 

[BuTurabi]

or jo mazarat ko dhamako se ura rahe hein? kya ye dhamake karne ke bajae behtar nahi ke [HI]hakumat ko qail kiya jae[/HI]?

دھماکوں سے قائل کر تو رہے ہیں ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ لیکن یہ نالائق حکومت قائل ہونے کا نام ہی نہیں لیتی۔

بھیا! یہاں قبریں بنانے والے بھی ہیں قبر پرستی سے منع کرنے والے بھی۔ اجمیر شریف سے لے کر افغانستان کے پہاڑوں تک ہزاروں مزار ہیں اور کروڑوں پکی قبریں ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ اِن کی تشریحات کے پیچھے لگے تو حکومت کو باقاعدہ ایک وزارت برائے مسماری مقابر بنانا پڑے گی جِس کے اہلکار شب و روز قبروں پر ہل چلاتے پھِریں گے تب کہیں جا کر اگلے دس سالوں میں قبرستان زمین کے برابر ہونگے اور اِس خواہش کی تکمیل کی راہ میں سخی شہباز قلندر، عبدلطیف بھٹائی، شاہ شمش تبریز، بہاولدین ذکریا، جلالدین سُرخ پوش، بابا فرید، داتا گنج بخش، بابا بُلہے شاہ سرکار، مادھو لعل حُسین، سخی سرور سمیت ان گنت بزرگان کے پہاڑ جیسے مزارات ہیں جِن سے کروڑوں لوگوں کو عقیدتیں ہیں۔ ذرا تصور کریں کیا فساد اور خون کی ندیاں بہیں گی اگر مقبروں اور مزاروں کو ڈھانے کا کام شروع ہو جائے۔ اَنہوں نے یہاں بس نہیں کرنی، کل کلاں مخالفین کی عبادتگاہیں گرائیں گے اور پرسوں گھر ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ اِن کا اِسلام ڈھانے، گِرانے، اُڑانے، مٹانے، دھمکانے، ڈرانے، تازیانے، نشانے وغیرہ کے گِرد ہی گھومتا ہے۔ تہذیبِ نفس گئی بھاڑ میں بس سارا وقت اصلاح کے نام پر دوسروں کے عقائد اور زندگی میں دوربینیں لگا کر بیٹھے رہو۔ ساتھ والے کی نماز غلط ہے یا صحیح اِس پر دھیان رہے اِس عدم توجہی کی وجہ سے اپنی چاہے باطل ہو جائے۔​

 

[BuTurabi]

Kahlo kay bail , jis masklak kay log mazaron par jatay hain wo isay drust samjhatay hain to jatay hain ,

Tumhain kis nay haq dia kay ja kay dosron ke kabron ko toro yar kabron ko girany kay amal ko support karo ?

درست کہا آپ نے۔ اِن جیسوں کے بارے میں عمومی خیال یہ تھا کہ یہ زندہ لوگوں کی زندگیوں میں گھُستے ہیں، دخل اندازیاں کرتے ہیں، شریعت کے نام پر تانکا جھانکی کرتے ہیں، اُن پر اپنا مذہب، مسلک، عقیدہ ٹھونستے پھِرتے ہیں لیکن اب تو مُردے بھی اِن کے شر سے محفوظ نہیں۔ لگتا ہے یہ اپنی ایسی خواہشات کے گنبد میں ہی گھُٹ گھُٹ کر جئیں گے۔ ​

 

[muslim01]

Everybody knows that you are an Indian. I kindly advice you to worry about your own naxalite and khalistan problem rather then becoming a kabaab mein haddi amongts Pakistanis!

تاج برطانیہ نے تم کو پاکستان دیا۔ ہٹلر سے پنگا لینے کے بعد ۔کاکے۔ ذرا سوچو اگر ایسٹ انڈیا کمپنی نے قبضہ نا کیا ہوتا تو پنجاب پر مہاراجہ رنجیت سنگھ کا کوئی پڑپوتا حکمران ہوتا ۔ دہلی پر مراٹھوں کا دور سلطانی کب کا شروع ہو جاتا۔ تو پھر کونسا پاکستان میری جان جوانی۔ جناح کوئی سلطان ایوبی نہیں تھا کہ اپنی فوجوں سے بنگال، پنجاب ،سندھ، بلوچستان وغیرہ پر قبضہ کر کے پاکستان بنا لیا تھا۔

 

[muslim01]

See brother these current leaders are all corrupt and they can not even lead a city. People will bring about a revolution just like what happened in North African countries and the time of emerging of Imam Al Mahdi is near. There are only two major sects i.e. Sunnis and Shias. Sunnis all over the globe might have few fiqhi differences but overall they are united and they are like brothers.

I believe that before Imam Al Mahdi, Khilafa is quite impossible as muslims have gone far away from Islam. Just wait and pray that Allah makes us amongst the army of Imam Al Mahdi and what ever teachings he follows, just follow that and no matter what media trying to say about him dont believe as I am quite sure media will start calling him an extremist or terrorist as well (Naozobillah)

First of all no one is against Islamic Shariah........ but the thing is who will lead the country these so called leaders zardaris,sharifs or so called Islamic leaders fazlurehman or munawar hassan.......... do not we our selves say that these are thieves and looters....... if you say that there will be Khilafat system that who will lead...... from which sect there will be khalifa...... then who will choose Khalifa...... and plz do not say that these so called Talibans who have badly distorted the loving face of islam

 

[صف شکن]

دھماکوں سے قائل کر تو رہے ہیں ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ لیکن یہ نالائق حکومت قائل ہونے کا نام ہی نہیں لیتی۔
​
بھیا! یہاں قبریں بنانے والے بھی ہیں قبر پرستی سے منع کرنے والے بھی۔ اجمیر شریف سے لے کر افغانستان کے پہاڑوں تک ہزاروں مزار ہیں اور کروڑوں پکی قبریں ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ اِن کی تشریحات کے پیچھے لگے تو حکومت کو باقاعدہ ایک وزارت برائے مسماری مقابر بنانا پڑے گی جِس کے اہلکار شب و روز قبروں پر ہل چلاتے پھِریں گے تب کہیں جا کر اگلے دس سالوں میں قبرستان زمین کے برابر ہونگے اور اِس خواہش کی تکمیل کی راہ میں سخی شہباز قلندر، عبدلطیف بھٹائی، شاہ شمش تبریز، بہاولدین ذکریا، جلالدین سُرخ پوش، بابا فرید، داتا گنج بخش، بابا بُلہے شاہ سرکار، مادھو لعل حُسین، سخی سرور سمیت ان گنت بزرگان کے پہاڑ جیسے مزارات ہیں جِن سے کروڑوں لوگوں کو عقیدتیں ہیں۔ ذرا تصور کریں کیا فساد اور خون کی ندیاں بہیں گی اگر مقبروں اور مزاروں کو ڈھانے کا کام شروع ہو جائے۔ اَنہوں نے یہاں بس نہیں کرنی، کل کلاں مخالفین کی عبادتگاہیں گرائیں گے اور پرسوں گھر ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ ۔ اِن کا اِسلام ڈھانے، گِرانے، اُڑاننے، مٹانے، دھمکانے، ڈرانے، تازیانے، نشانے وغیرہ کے گِرد ہی گھومتا ہے۔ تہذیبِ نفس گئی بھاڑ میں بس سارا وقت اصلاح کے نام پر دوسروں کے عقائد اور زندگی میں دوربینیں لگا کر بیٹھے رہو۔ ساتھ والے کی نماز غلط ہے یا صحیح اِس پر دھیان رہے اِس عدم توجہی کی وجہ سے اپنی چاہے باطل ہو جائے۔
​

برتابی صاحب! ہمیں اگر خود کو عقل ُکل سمجھتے ہوئے محظ لفاظی سے دین کے مسائل ہی سمجھنے ہیں تو قرآن و حدیث کی ضرورت ہی کیا ہے۔ دھماکے، خود کش حملے، مارنے، اُڑانے وغیرہ کے الفاظ استعمال کرکے شاید آپ خود کو تو تسلی دیں لیں لیکن حدیث رسول صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم کا جواب تو نہ ہوا۔ میں پوچھتا ہوں یہ فساد اُس وقت کیوں نہ ہوا جب ہمارے نبی اکرم صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم نے حضرت علی رضی اللہ تعالی عنہ کو اونچی قبریں برابر کرنے کا حکم دیا، فساد اُس وقت کیوں نہ ہوا جب حضرت علی نے بھی ایک تابعی کو یہی کام کرنے کا حکم دیا؟ امام شافعی رحمتہ اللہ علیہ کے زمانے میں بھی مزارات ڈھائے گئے ،کچھ فساد نہ ہوا۔

اسلامی مسائل میں اختلاف کا ہوا دکھا کر لوگوں کو اپنی من مانی پر ابھارا جاتا ہے حالانکہ جہاں اذہان مختلف ہوں اختلاف کا پیدا ہونا ایک فطری امر ہے، ضرورت اس امر کی ہوتی ہے کہ اختلاف کو تعصب اور فرقہ پسندی سے بالاتر ہو کر قرآن و حدیث کی روشنی میں حل کیا جائے ، اور پھر قبور پر مزارات کی تعمیر تو ایسا مسئلہ ہے کہ قرآن و حدیث کے علاوہ مذاہب اربعہ میں بھی اس کے جواز کی کوئی دلیل موجود نہیں۔

بجائے اس کے اس معاملے میں لوگوں کو آگہی اور شعور فراہم کیا جائے، ہمیں صریح احادیث رسول پیش کرنے کی پاداش میں تہذیب نفس کو بالائے طاق رکھنے کا طعنہ دیا جا رہا ہے۔ اور اگر ہم اس خود ساختہ "تہذیب نفس" کی دلیل مانگیں تو شدت پسندی کا لیبل ہمارے حصے میں آتا ہے۔ بہرحال اللہ دیکھ رہا ہے انشا اللہ وہی فیصلہ بھی کرے گا، دنیا میں بھی اور آخرت میں بھی۔

 

[صف شکن]

Lakin Moderator mohib-e-watan ka khilaaf hai:)

وطن سے محبت اہل وطن کا فرض ہے، لیکن اگر آپ مسلمان ہیں تو یہ محبت اسلام کی بتائی گئی حدود و قیود سے تجاوز نہیں ہو سکتی۔
لیکن افسوس، یہاں نبی اکرم صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم کے حکم پر اپنی خود ساختہ "حب الوطنی" کو مقدم رکھا جا رہا ہے۔
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[BuTurabi]

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