My opinion what our Army needs in light of Mehran Attack: Please share your views

crankthskunk

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I am not going to ridicule Pakistani Army, the participants know my views about Kiyani, I think he is not only useless but he is not up to the job and should resign immediately.

But problems would not be solved from his resignation. The problems are deep very deep indeed. And I am not talking about the problems caused by some high ranking officers but problems in SOPs.

What this and many more incidents have revealed is shocking evidence of how and why our forces are inept and these errors occurs.

We do not have proper training for our forces; it simply boiled down to this fact. I can not doubt the bravery of our soldiers; they are among the bravest in the world. Which is obvious during this attack as well, when middle high and middle ranks both lost their lives. Loss of life which could have been avoided and should be avoided and still get better results.

I am only basing my comments what I saw on the television, I have no way of knowing what happened inside, so please take my comments in this light.

We have seen so many vehicles full of different security personals going in to the base as reinforcement to secure the area when the incident was on going. Most of them including the Rangers were without body vests. Why is this, even though they were entering a dangerous situation? They didnt have night vision goggles as well. There should have been a well coordinated effort to seal off the entire area but the way things were happening inside and outside of the gates were typical of an emergency we face in our lives. Every one running around without any plan and duties assigned to them. Like this even if you have thousands of people against few, you wouldnt not know what to do, and will become sitting ducks if you are not even fully protected.

If the enemy en-trenched themselves like the attackers did in the bunkers inside the base. Then they can pick their targets and kill them one by one. This is what happened our brave soldiers and rangers died because of the chaos and not knowing what they are suppose to do, because there were no plans for the emergencies, and what every force which was called for help suppose to do.

I am sure, the attackers escaped taking advantage of this chaos, while we having hundreds of personnel from different forces, were not organised and did not sealed the base properly, so the attackers could not escape.

We need to organise ourselves, create especial units in every relevant force, with assigned tasks and responsibilities in such situations, a command and control mechanism and full training to these personnel just to deal with situation like this.

Unless and until we do this, we would be soft targets. Please share your comments.

I use an analogy with my family and friends for our Cricketing heroes, when I compare them with other teams even with Indians.

Our team members rely on the same principle we have in our daily lives, i.e. chaotic approach. I say, they have grown up with these kinds of scenarios and are still working on same principle even though the world is moved on. One scenario, which every body would be very familiar with if they have played cricket. On the match day, your friend has just ring the bell of your house to pick you for the match, you got out of the bed, half a sleep, rubbing your eyes, because you were up very late last night, probably until the small hours of the morning. From first floor balcony, you responded to your friends, asking him to come in and have Parathas breakfast.

Our team is still in the same mode of operation, chaotic as ever, because of the mind set which is irrelevant in todays world. They rely heavily on their talent, which no doubt they posses in abundance but they still fail at every examination and lose vital matches. Same happened to our hockey team and to squash in Pakistan. We are just not learning, and changing ourselves.

We are disorganised and chaotic, without any learning or presence of mind, respect for each other and lives of our citizens. This is the sad reality of the situation in Pakistan.

Our army Jawans are the best and most brave no doubt about it, but they need proper training according to the world standards. Look at the yanks when they go for an operation or even for patrol they are well prepared, they cover each other, have discipline and presence of mind, thats why they do not loose many of their soldiers. Compare to this we loose our soldiers because of chaos which always ensues in these kind of situation like in Mehran.

This is my opinion, please give your inputs.
 

c4cheema

MPA (400+ posts)
With respect:
If we are not aware of the facts then we should not write analytical columns.
@Star Gazer (and @wadaich ) g I think it is more appropriate thread to ask you few question to check what credibility army has .... If you have any guts and level of respect for country please answer this not (xakl;fdjasfkfs) language that was used by Muslims of Baghdad after getting defeat ..... here are my few questions for you ...


Do you think we don't care our ARMY youngsters or FC officials???
Don't you know why they are being killed??
Who... is providing weapons and explosive materials to so called Talibans??
From where they are getting money??? Why the Pakistani Generals are the most rich Gens in the whole world??
Why every Gen has LPG Quota and plots worth billions??
Why the Gen, retried Mahmood Ali Durani (Ex-US Ambassador) is not punished although he had provided the complete details of Parliament in Camera meeting to US consulate against the
interest of country??? Who is bearing the expense of their kids studies abroad??
Did Talibans attack on any Gen family and kids so far?? Why the DG ISI was not terminated
Despite of GHQ/Mehran Attack, More than 35,000 innocent killings in bomb blasts, Raymond Davis case and on OBL drama??
Who is responsible for the innocent killings whether they are civilians or belong to Armed Forces??
Who have provided Air bases and permission to CIA to form intelligence net work in Pakistan??
Why always ISI interferer whenever Police catch any CIA Agent with hand grenades and and other forbidden bore weapons???
Why Raymond Davis was connected with Pakistan Tahrek-e-Talibans leaders as per his cell phone calling records??
Why he was not investigated despite of this fact?? Why a terrorist Dr. Usman who was caught in Sri Lanka Team attack case was again
caught red handed during GHQ attack?? Who set him free??
Why our intelligence agencies don't share any investigation result with the people of Pakistan or Parliament or even
they are not willing to name the forces who are supporting so called Talibans in tribal areas?? God forbid, if any one
of us looses entire family in Drone Attack and Govt declare our family members as terrorists then what would be our next
line of action being a part of tribal area where revenge tradition is most common??? How 5000 to 10000 militants have
touched the figure of more than 100,000 in last few years??? Please open your eyes, both (civilians and armed forces)
were our brothers and sisters whether they have been being killed in Drone Attacks in tribal areas or in Bomb Blasts in big cities.
They have paid the price of their rulers polices and greed and soon we will also have to pay the same since we are a shameless Nation.
If you are still unable to understand such common things then it is height of stupidity nothing else
 
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EniGma90

Minister (2k+ posts)
Bro Cranck I would say that Pak's biggest problem is that its own proxy is fighting against It. Like if we say that Hizbullah and Hamas fighitng against Iran or Israel fighting against USA.
We are having low poles in our over all security system for a long time but now there ain't much time left to revisit the whole security policy because war is upon our head now..
 

DilDilPak

Citizen
May be so called patriot could answer my questions ... star gazer you are here just to make people fool .... just tell your army now this war is inside our houses and Now we will fight not for ALLAH's Deen we will fight to save ourself and our families. I do not want to go into detail as this is difficult time on country ... which is created by army and those who are still thinking that army will fight for them they are @Star Gazer paid workers or fool
 
In my openion army should consentrate on internal & extrenal threats not indulge in making or throwing civil government. Army should look into his organsation and kick out black sheep. Army cheif said that they had broken back of terrorist but at once incident of mehran base came into being, it means army cheif has not been given true informations.
THERE R HUNDREDS OF STRETEGIC ASSETS IN THE COUNTRY WHCH R ON STAKE. FOR EXAMPLE NATIONAL REFINERY KARACHI WHICH IS NOW SURROPUNDED BY KACHI ABADIES AND TANKERS.
NO PAPOLATION SHOULD BE ALLOWED WITHIN 1000 METERS FROM THE BOUNDRY WALL OF THESE ASSTS.
I HOPE GOVT AND ARMY WILL TAKE A SERIOUS NOTE OF THESE LOPOLES.
 
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littlemaster

Minister (2k+ posts)
in my openion army should consentrate on internal & extrenal threats not indulge in making or throwing civil government. Army should look into his organsation and kick out black sheep. Army cheif said that they had broken back of terrorist but at once incident of mehran base came into being, it means army cheif has not been given true informations.

they need to break bone of real terrorist which is usa.
 

crankthskunk

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Bro Cranck I would say that Pak's biggest problem is that its own proxy is fighting against It. Like if we say that Hizbullah and Hamas fighitng against Iran or Israel fighting against USA.
We are having low poles in our over all security system for a long time but now there ain't much time left to revisit the whole security policy because war is upon our head now..

I agree, and this is because, the higher ups, military or civilians, are scared from Americans, and do not say anything in public or declare any clear policies. Even Imran is taking wrongly by people, mainly by his political opponents , blame like he is supporting Taliban or terrorists. No Pakistani can support people who kill Pakistanis. But if we organise ourselves, formulate clear policies, be straight with our people and with the Americans. We can solve many problems. They are just scared from war with America, but can they avoid it despite all their cowardice? No, if Americans decided it, it would be, you have to be ready as best as you could and then fight with bravery. it is coming to that fast.

Imran is right, I said same thing, declare policies, break your links with USA, sealed the borders with Afghanistan. Work to get those people on your side who started the attacks because their family members died in operations or drone attacks. And then go with full force against the terrorists who are trained, financed and supported by the enemies of Pakistan with full backing of Pakistani people. If you have clear and stated policies, majority of Pakistani people will support.
 

sakayani

Senator (1k+ posts)
Solution is not that difficult. Instead of being reactive, we should take initiative in our hands. Mohammed (peace be upon him) advised to hold time from its horns and thats all about taking initiative and thinking before hand. Keep the faith and have no doubt that HE is the great planner.
 
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Star Gazer

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
@Star Gazer (and @wadaich ) g I think it is more appropriate thread to ask you few question to check what credibility army has .... If you have any guts and level of respect for country please answer this not (xakl;fdjasfkfs) language that was used by Muslims of Baghdad after getting defeat ..... here are my few questions for you ...


Do you think we don't care our ARMY youngsters or FC officials???
Don't you know why they are being killed??
Who... is providing weapons and explosive materials to so called Talibans??
From where they are getting money??? Why the Pakistani Generals are the most rich Gens in the whole world??
Why every Gen has LPG Quota and plots worth billions??
Why the Gen, retried Mahmood Ali Durani (Ex-US Ambassador) is not punished although he had provided the complete details of Parliament in Camera meeting to US consulate against the
interest of country??? Who is bearing the expense of their kids studies abroad??
Did Talibans attack on any Gen family and kids so far?? Why the DG ISI was not terminated
Despite of GHQ/Mehran Attack, More than 35,000 innocent killings in bomb blasts, Raymond Davis case and on OBL drama??
Who is responsible for the innocent killings whether they are civilians or belong to Armed Forces??
Who have provided Air bases and permission to CIA to form intelligence net work in Pakistan??
Why always ISI interferer whenever Police catch any CIA Agent with hand grenades and and other forbidden bore weapons???
Why Raymond Davis was connected with Pakistan Tahrek-e-Talibans leaders as per his cell phone calling records??
Why he was not investigated despite of this fact?? Why a terrorist Dr. Usman who was caught in Sri Lanka Team attack case was again
caught red handed during GHQ attack?? Who set him free??
Why our intelligence agencies don't share any investigation result with the people of Pakistan or Parliament or even
they are not willing to name the forces who are supporting so called Talibans in tribal areas?? God forbid, if any one
of us looses entire family in Drone Attack and Govt declare our family members as terrorists then what would be our next
line of action being a part of tribal area where revenge tradition is most common??? How 5000 to 10000 militants have
touched the figure of more than 100,000 in last few years??? Please open your eyes, both (civilians and armed forces)
were our brothers and sisters whether they have been being killed in Drone Attacks in tribal areas or in Bomb Blasts in big cities.
They have paid the price of their rulers polices and greed and soon we will also have to pay the same since we are a shameless Nation.
If you are still unable to understand such common things then it is height of stupidity nothing else

First of all, my last post to you was meant to represent unintelligible answer, not what you have portrayed it to be.

I would like to answer the questions but i am not the right person.
You will only get the right answers if you ask the right person.
In my humble opinion all these questions should be directed to the government of the country for they have the constitutional control and responsibility of the country and it's people.
It would be stupid to let the PM and president off the hook and punish every one else for then you leave the chance for the same mistake because then whom ever they chosse to bring forward will only be corrupt like themselves.
 

Star Gazer

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
May be so called patriot could answer my questions ... star gazer you are here just to make people fool .... just tell your army now this war is inside our houses and Now we will fight not for ALLAH's Deen we will fight to save ourself and our families. I do not want to go into detail as this is difficult time on country ... which is created by army and those who are still thinking that army will fight for them they are @Star Gazer paid workers or fool


With this post I know that you are not the one to reason with.
Wassalam.
 

gazoomartian

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
i m surprised why they not used gassess to capture them alive and interogate?

A million dollar question.

If I were the in charge of the rescue team, I would surround the building, negotiate the release of the hostages, wait them out instead of killing them. They would provide immense amount of details as to who what where and when about the attacks. How long would have housed themselves in? Then I would have shut off electricity, then water, then send food laced with valium so they fall asleep and we grab them.

But we are talking about dummies and terrorist like Rehman Malik. By the way I was appalled to see Malik there where the target was a defense entity. If I were the PM, I would send the defense minister because forces are under defense ministry NOT the interior.

Magar kya kahoon, andhi nagri chaupat raja wali misaal hai, awa ka awa hi nirala hai

Update: By the way I dont believe for a min that any of them ' bhag gayey'. They have been apprehended and being questioned by the ISI but for some stupid reasons they are hiding the facts because it may well have been someone inside who provided help.
 

United4Pak

Minister (2k+ posts)
I find it difficult to say that I agree 100% with crankshunk. Cheema sahib has raised some good points too. Unfortunately, whenever someone talks about army or agencies role then you are branded traitor, indian agent, Taliban supporter etc. when the fact is that I love my Pakistan and Army and honest politicians as much as any patriot would do but I believe its time army ( I really mean the top generals) mend their ways before it's too late.

I know it's difficult times but it shouldn't be used as an excuse to silence the questions raised by many politians and all parties (ppp, PML-n, ANP, Mqm and probably PTI).
 

gazoomartian

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
May be so called patriot could answer my questions ... star gazer you are here just to make people fool .... just tell your army now this war is inside our houses and Now we will fight not for ALLAH's Deen we will fight to save ourself and our families. I do not want to go into detail as this is difficult time on country ... which is created by army and those who are still thinking that army will fight for them they are @Star Gazer paid workers or fool

Star is a paid worker?? :lol:

Star ji, can you get ME hired there too? [hilar]
 

gazoomartian

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
I am not going to ridicule Pakistani Army, the participants know my views about Kiyani, I think he is not only useless but he is not up to the job and should resign immediately.

But problems would not be solved from his resignation. The problems are deep very deep indeed. And I am not talking about the problems caused by some high ranking officers but problems in SOPs.



This is my opinion, please give your inputs.

There is no lack of training anywhere or any lack of know how. Its the corruption that has hit the top. When hukmraan are corrupt the subjects will be corrupt too. I am sure the gate keeper who let the terrorists mingled amongst baraatis let him in on some elses order. some must have authorised the gate keepers to let them in.

So to add my input, problem is not in the desire of protecting the country or in the training, ist in the military elites who have gone stray from Islamic values, indulged in sharab-o-shabaab and la-parwahi only because the commander in chief Zaradri, PM, defense minister doesnt care.

based on what I have seen in East Pakistan, all ranks above and including Captain are corrupt to the core. I have seen a bottle of alcohol on the desk of a major when I opened his office door to inform him of something. His captain was sitting there too sharing the glass. I had something very important to get his order about passing a set of bullets for usage and they told me come back later.

When I came back disappointed, I informed the soldiers that they can not take the bullets as they were not approved by the major, while mukti bahini were closing in on us. I heard later that those braves received shahadat later. this is our elites in army. astaghfirullah o azeem.

Cure? Only ONE cure, a mard-e-ahan takes over and shoots the corrupt politicians, the generals will smarten up quick but shooting must be done in public.
 

gazoomartian

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Stop this nonsense of Paid workers.

you think this site is so important that People will get paid to write here.

Sick Mind people!!!!

[hilar] was taht for me or for dildilpak?

I guess you dont know how to read posts. Did ya notice the question marks?? :lol:

But I am so 'gladiator' you read my post (bigsmile)
 

gazoomartian

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Stop this nonsense of Paid workers.

you think this site is so important that People will get paid to write here.

Sick Mind people!!!!

Actually I do. Ask Indians, they are being paid by the RAW to be here 24/7. But they get less than the minimum wage