What kind of Islam is this?

[Pakistani1947]

After watching the posted video, in which the so called "Aalim" of Minhaj-ul-Qur'aan encouraging Muslims to engage in non-Islamic activities such as Music and dancing, I would not prefer to seek any knowledge from this group of people.

Do you really consider the action and belief of any present day Aalim or organisation on earth to be correct according to your criteria of judgement for other Muslim Groups? Please mention some names.

My dear brother Knowledge Seeker,

Please do not drag me into the stupid debate of "which faith is correct within Muslim groups" as the division into sects and groups and the division of the Religion is contrary to the command of Allah. Allah has given us very simple principle, Qur'aan and Sunnah (??? ???? ???? ???? ????).

Allaah says: "And hold fast, all of you together, to the Rope of Allaah (i.e., this Qur'an), and be not divided among yourselves." Surah Aali-`Imraan [3:103]

"And most of them believe not in Allaah, except that they attribute partners to him." [Soorah Yoosuf 12:106]
The present state of the Ummah therefore, is as the Messenger of Allaah (??? ???? ???? ???? ????) spoke about it - even before we had seen what we had seen. In fact, even our forefathers saw what they saw - the division into sects and groups and the division of the Religion - contrary to the command of the Lord of the Worlds.
"And do not be from among the polytheists, those who have split up their Religion and become groups and sects, each group only being pleased with that which is with it." [Sooratur-Room 30:31-32]
And in contradiction to Allaahs command in another statement:
"And verily, this is My Straight Path, so follow it and do not follow other paths, for they would separate you away from His Path." [Sooratul-Anaam 6:153]
In addition, the Messenger of Allaah (??? ???? ???? ???? ????) has made it clear what is meant by these 'other paths in an authentic hadeeth which depicts the division of the Muslims and the straying of a large number of them from the straight path.
Abdullaah Ibn Masood (radiyallaahu anhu) said: "One day the Messenger of Allaah (??? ???? ???? ???? ????) drew for us a straight line on the ground and said: 'This is the path of Allaah.' Then he drew a number of other lines on the right and the left of the straight line, and said: 'These are pathways, on the head of each path is a shaytaan calling people to it (himself).' Then he recited: "And verily this is My Path so follow it." [Ahmad (1/435, 465), an-Nisaaee (no. 184), ad-Daarimee (1/67-68). It was authenticated by Shaykh al-Albaanee in Sharhul-Aqeedatit-Tahaawiyyah (no. 810).]

 

[babadeena]

And He also says: "But no, by your Lord, they can have no Eemaan (Faith), until they make you (O Muhammad) a judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission." Surat-un-Nisaa' [4:65].

Brother who are "THEY"?

Music and dance with Music had been and is part of culture of any society, hardly there will any which does not do that!!!! I would appreciate if both parties (one who they say that it is as per Quran and Hadith, and the other who say that it is not, may paste their relevant verses from Quran, first, then we shall go towards Hadith also? thanks.

????? ????????? ??? ??????????? ??????? ???????????? ?????? ?????? ?????????? ????? ??? ???????? ??? ??????????? ??????? ??????? ???????? ????????????? ?????????? [Quraa'n: An-Nisa, 4:65]


Translation by Yusuf Ali :But no, by the Lord, they can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against Thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction.


?? ???? ?? ?? ??? ?? ?? ???? ???? ???? ??? ?? ?? ?? ?? ???? ???????? ??? ???? ???? ?? ??? ??? ??? ???? ????? ?? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ????? ??? ???? ?? ???? ????

Brother, I once again dare to ask from you, what does it mean "They" in the verse, Who are the people to whom the verse is referring. The verse is starting from "FA" so definitely it is not the start of thing. From which dictionary of the Earth, the English word "They" has been translated in Urdu (yay).
Your way of quoting from Quran is proving that you are just getting what other people have written but not understanding it on your own. To justify a quoted "Hadith" you are resorting to this out of context verse, with no explanatory notes or textual continuation.

 

[Pakistani1947]

And He also says: "But no, by your Lord, they can have no Eemaan (Faith), until they make you (O Muhammad) a judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission." Surat-un-Nisaa' [4:65].

Brother who are "THEY"?

Music and dance with Music had been and is part of culture of any society, hardly there will any which does not do that!!!! I would appreciate if both parties (one who they say that it is as per Quran and Hadith, and the other who say that it is not, may paste their relevant verses from Quran, first, then we shall go towards Hadith also? thanks.

????? ????????? ??? ??????????? ??????? ???????????? ?????? ?????? ?????????? ????? ??? ???????? ??? ??????????? ??????? ??????? ???????? ????????????? ?????????? [Quraa'n: An-Nisa, 4:65]


Translation by Yusuf Ali :But no, by the Lord, they can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against Thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction.


?? ???? ?? ?? ??? ?? ?? ???? ???? ???? ??? ?? ?? ?? ?? ???? ???????? ??? ???? ???? ?? ??? ??? ??? ???? ????? ?? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ????? ??? ???? ?? ???? ????

Brother, I once again dare to ask from you, what does it mean "They" in the verse, Who are the people to whom the verse is referring. The verse is starting from "FA" so definitely it is not the start of thing. From which dictionary of the Earth, the English word "They" has been translated in Urdu (yay).
Your way of quoting from Quran is proving that you are just getting what other people have written but not understanding it on your own. To justify a quoted "Hadith" you are resorting to this out of context verse, with no explanatory notes or textual continuation.

Dear babadeena,

Following is the Tafseer of above verse by Taseer Ibn-e-Kaseer (to keep the content short I have omitted a story which, as per translater, had no support from Hadeeth:

 

[babadeena]

Dear Brother,

This is how the half-learned Ulema has murdered Quran's meanings while writing Tafsirs. You have quoted Tafsir of Ibne Kathir, I give you link here of the relevant Tafsir of Ibne Kathir:
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=4&tid=11591
Now where it is written that:
a) A momin must accept all Hadiths and take them as "visible Truth";
b) should understand the Hadiths as "Aslay Principle". (The root and base of Principle);
c) Total obedience should strick with ALL HADITHS.
d) Neither they should stop themselves to accept the Hadiths; nor they should find the ways to render them(Hadiths) as ineffective; NOR THEY SHOULD TAKE ANY THING EQUAL TO THEIR(Hadith) status; Nor they should make their correction(tardeed), nor they should compete them, nor they should fight in their obedience; etc etc etc.

Oh my dear brother. This is neither Tafsir of Ibne kathir nor of any one else but of those whose agenda is specific. The verse in its preceeding and succeeding verses and also in words , does not convey what you are projecting. IF YOU HAVE QURANIC KNOWLEDGE OR ARABIC KNOWLEDGE, be my guest to discuss each and every word of the verses. Therefore what you have been proving has no value at all for the subject or topic.

 

[Pakistani1947]

Dear Brother,

This is how the half-learned Ulema has murdered Quran's meanings while writing Tafsirs. You have quoted Tafsir of Ibne Kathir, I give you link here of the relevant Tafsir of Ibne Kathir:
http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=4&tid=11591" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Now where it is written that:
a) A momin must accept all Hadiths and take them as "visible Truth";
b) should understand the Hadiths as "Aslay Principle". (The root and base of Principle);
c) Total obedience should strick with ALL HADITHS.
d) Neither they should stop themselves to accept the Hadiths; nor they should find the ways to render them(Hadiths) as ineffective; NOR THEY SHOULD TAKE ANY THING EQUAL TO THEIR(Hadith) status; Nor they should make their correction(tardeed), nor they should compete them, nor they should fight in their obedience; etc etc etc.

Oh my dear brother. This is neither Tafsir of Ibne kathir nor of any one else but of those whose agenda is specific. The verse in its preceeding and succeeding verses and also in words , does not convey what you are projecting. IF YOU HAVE QURANIC KNOWLEDGE OR ARABIC KNOWLEDGE, be my guest to discuss each and every word of the verses. Therefore what you have been proving has no value at all for the subject or topic.

Dear Babadeena,

You have now diverted the whole discussion to a different topic. I quoted the vesre of Qur'aan to support my argument that whenever there is conflict (In this thread it was "music and Raqs in a religious gathering") on any Islamic issues we should consult Qur'ann and Sunnah and quoted following verse:

????? ????????? ??? ??????????? ??????? ???????????? ?????? ?????? ?????????? ????? ??? ???????? ??? ??????????? ??????? ??????? ???????? ????????????? ?????????? [Quraa'n: An-Nisa, 4:65]

Translation by Yusuf Ali :But no, by the Lord, they can have no (real) Faith, until they make thee judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against Thy decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction.

To change the topic you had stuck with the word "they" although the Qur'aanic verse is self explanatory even without the consultation of Tafseer. Anyway when I quoted the Tafseer you have come with a set of totally irrelevant Questions. If you want, you can discuss those question by creating a new thread; but at the moment could you please justify, music and Raqs (dance) in the presence of a so called "Aalim" in a religious gathering, giving references from Quraan and Hadeeth?

FYI, I would like to quote my earlier post within this thread:

"I am not a Aalim. I am just an ordinary GunahGar (???????) but have strong faith in Tauheed (?????). I believe that Qur'aan an Sunnah (??? ???? ???? ???? ????) is the only path towards the unity of Muslims. I am not follower of any peer , faqeer, and wali but follower of Qur'aan an Sunnah (??? ???? ???? ???? ????). I noticed that my Muslim brother who are blindly following peer , faqeer, and wali, they miss the opportunity of seeking the truth because they do not bother to investigate Islamic issue through Qur'aan and Sunnah (??? ???? ???? ???? ????). They are usually satisfied with whatever their peer, faqeer, and wali's interpretation of Islam."

 

[babadeena]

@Pakistan 1947,

I am not defending what the so-called Alim is doing. I am questioning the wrong quotation of Quranic verses by you. Their totally wrong Tafsir, that is my point. The quoted verses have different addressees and a different subject which is for "those people who pretend or show that they believe in Quran, but do not accept its verdict", whereas you are wrongly applying it or your Ulemas are wrongly applying them.

 

[Pakistani1947]

Dear babadeena,

Lets come back to the topic.

I believe you have watch the video posted at the beginning of this thread. In the light of Islamic sprite, would you approve that type of music being played and the dance in the religious gathering in the presence of "so-called" Aalim?

If yes, please quote references from Qur'aan and Sahah-Satta.

 

[babadeena]

Brother Please show little bit of patience. This time I have seen the total video. I do NOT APPROVE THIS. NOT AT ALL. But first let the people should decide which component of "Music" are halal and Haraam and why then? Have you read last post in Urdu, what it is conveying now?

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=19940&start=20
Now Please enlighten me why you are pasting out of context verses, depending upon the tafsir which is contrary to what verses convey. I have given you ibne Kathir reference. The tafsir in Urdu which you are following and quoting is misleading and is not correct at all. First of all there is hardly any need of tafsir and specially of this biased minded one. If you read quran in sequence slowly and with understanding every thing becomes clear.
Now you please tell me what part of Music is Haraam according to you, and give me relevant verse from Quran, the one you have quoted, I have already conveyed that it is out of context. The second thing is please go through the topic Music and Islam on Siasi discussion.

 

[Pakistani1947]

Brother Please show little bit of patience. This time I have seen the total video. I do NOT APPROVE THIS. NOT AT ALL. But first let the people should decide which component of "Music" are halal and Haraam and why then? Have you read last post in Urdu, what it is conveying now?

Dear Babadeena,

Thanks for clarifying that you do not approve the Music and dance in a religious gathering in the presence of a so-called Aalim. So there is no conflict between you and me regarding the topic of this discussion. Hence, I think, we may discontinue the debate between us otherwise we will be confusing the readers of this topic by discussing the issues which are not relevant to the topic.

I agree with your point that if you read Quran in sequence slowly and with understanding every thing becomes clear. Regarding Hadeeth, we must be very careful and quote only the authentic Hadeeth.

Our Iman is not not complete if we do not believe in authentic Ahadeeth. The ilm-ur-Rijal (??? ?? ????)is near perfect science. Scholars have spend whole of their life to do research on Ahadeeth and compiled ilm-ur-Rijal (??? ?? ????). The scholars have investigated the links of each and every Hadeeth till it links to Prophet Muhammad (??? ???? ???? ???? ????) and then they investigated the character of each and every person in that link. Now, by the grace of Allah one can easily identify the authentic Ahadeeth from the Zakheera-e-Ahadeeth (????? ??????).

I quoted the vesre of Qur'aan [Quraa'n: An-Nisa, 4:65] to support my argument that whenever there is conflict on any Islamic issues we should consult Qur'ann and Sunnah.
If you a different point of view regarding my above mentioned argument than it would become a totally different debate. The verses of Qur'aan in An-Nisa, 4:65 were self explanatory even without the consultation of Tafseer. But when when you insisted to know what is "they" in the translation. Then I had to reluctantly post a content from Tafsee-Ibn-Kaseer. Before posting I read it carefully, the content of Tafseer was not going against the translation. Regarding narrations mentioned in the Tafseer, the author/translator was honest to mentioned whether the Hadeeth is weak. I even omitted one story which as per translator, was not supported by Hadeeth (I even mentioned this omission under my comments).

Again, I am not an Aalim. When I started this thread, I wrote my first paragraph as follows:
" I was just browsing the internet and found this video. This is surely something new to me. Could somebody help me to understand what kind of Islam is this? "
It is very clear from the above statement that I need forum help to understand what kind of Islam being shown in that video. I further requested in the next paragraph:
"Could somebody find any Hadeeth from Sahah-e-Satta (???? ???), where it is mentioned that any of Sahabah such as Abu Bakr Siddique (RA), Omer Farooq (R.A.), Usman Ghani (R.A.) or Ali (R.A.) ever performed such kind of acts or even thought of doing such acts (Na'auzobilla)."
Nobody has yet come with a single authentic Hadeeth from Sahah-e-Satta (???? ???) to justify that video. Later in most of my posts under this thread all I am conveying is that please consult Qur'ann and Sunnah to resolve any Islamic issues and for the same reason I quoted the verse An-Nisa, 4:65. Since you have already mentioned "I do NOT APPROVE THIS. NOT AT ALL" then there no point to debate with you any further.

I really appreciate your participation.

 

[Knowledge Seeker]

My Dear brother Knowledge Seeker,

I am not a Aalim. I am just an ordinary GunahGar (???????) but have strong faith in Tauheed (?????). I believe that Qur'aan an Sunnah (??? ???? ???? ???? ????) is the only path towards the unity of Muslims. I am not follower of any peer , faqeer, and wali but follower of Qur'aan an Sunnah (??? ???? ???? ???? ????). I noticed that my Muslim brother who are blindly following peer , faqeer, and wali, they miss the opportunity of seeking the truth because they do not bother to investigate Islamic issue through Qur'aan and Sunnah (??? ???? ???? ???? ????). They are usually satisfied with whatever their peer, faqeer, and wali's interpretation of Islam.

The person who is not an Alim will remain a layman. He will, however, have to refer to and consult the rulings of a Mujtahid.

To leave aside the research of the experts of Shariah and for a layman to seek for every ruling by contemplating on the Quran and Hadith is like the resemblance of a person who has a very complicating illness and he deems it to be below his dignity to refer to the experts in the medical field. So in order to alleviate and solve his problem he purchases the bests and most authentic books on the subject of medicine and he relies on his own understanding and research of these books and seeks a cure for his illness. We should realize that no intelligent person will resort to such foolishness. If any person is silly enough to carry out his treatment in this fashion, in that he does his own research and leaves aside the medical experts, then it is almost certain that he will never gain good health or a cure. In fact, he should first make arrangements for his burial before attempting to cure himself.

Off course, there are differences of Opinion among Muslim groups but it is your moral duty to try to educate yourself from other groups before accusing them of blind following, rejecting the Quran and Sunnah & so on....

Try to learn the Fiqh of following Hadith and act accordingly regarding difference of opinions in interpretation.

Narrated Hadhrat Abdullah Ibn Umar (Radhi Allah Anhu): On the day of Al-Ahzab (i.e. Clans) the Prophet (Salaalahu Alaihi Wasallam) said, "None of you Muslims should offer the 'Asr prayer but at Banu Quraiza's place." The 'Asr prayer became due for some of them on the way. Some of those said, "We will not offer it till we reach it, the place of Banu Quraiza," while some others said, "No, we will pray at this spot, for the Prophet did not mean that for us." Later on It was mentioned to the Prophet (Salallahu Alaihi Wasallam) and he did not berate any of the two groups. (Sahih Bukhari:Book #59, Hadith #445)

 

[Knowledge Seeker]

My dear brother Knowledge Seeker,

1. Music: No Qur'aanic verse or authentic Hadeeth in favor of music in Sahah-e-Satta ???? ???

Narrated Hadhrat Aisha (R.A.): That once Abu Bakr(R.A.) came to her on the day of 'Id-ul-Fitr or 'Id ul Adha while the Prophet (Salallahu Alaihi Wasallam) was with her and there were two girl singers with her, singing songs of the Ansar about the day of Buath. Abu Bakr(R.A.) said twice. "musical instrument of Satan!" But the Prophet (Salallahu Alaihi Wasallam) said, "Leave them Abu Bakr, for every nation has an Eid and this day is our Eid" (Sahih Bukhari: Book #58, Hadith #268)

.
Take, for instance, the following words of praise penned by Al-Busiri:
"O Most Noble of Creation! I seek refuge with none other than you when general calamity befalls us."

This is serious. Where is mention of the Lord of the heavens and the Earth? Where is mention of the Beneficent, the Merciful? How can we seek refuge with no one besides the Prophet (??? ???? ???? ???? ????) in our distress when we should be seeking it with no one other than Allah?

In another place, he writes about the Prophet (??? ???? ???? ???? ????):
"From your magnanimity is the milk of the Earth and from your knowledge is the tablet and the pen of decree."

We must have no doubt that these attributes are the exclusive domain of Allah. Applying them to the Prophet (??? ???? ???? ???? ????) is blatant polytheism, a sin that Allah tells us He will not forgive.

If you want to discuss about the Qasida of Al-Busiri (Rehmat Ullah Alaihi), then you are most welcome to create new thread for discussion.

. Raqs: No Qur'aanic verse or authentic Hadeeth in favor of Raqs in Sahah-e-Satta (???? ???)

How come you have not yet provided even single evidence in refutation of Raqs??

Anyway, here you go:

It is narrated by Anas (Radi Allah Anhu) that the Habashis were presenting their art in front of the Prophet (Salallahu Alaihi Wasallam) and they were doing Raqs while saying Muhammadun Abdun Salih. The Prophet (??? ???? ???? ????) asked: What are they saying? They said: Muhammadun Abdun Salih [Musnad Ahmed bin Hanbal, Volume No.3, Page no. 152]

 

[taul]

Narrated Hadhrat Aisha (R.A.): That once Abu Bakr(R.A.) came to her on the day of 'Id-ul-Fitr or 'Id ul Adha while the Prophet (Salallahu Alaihi Wasallam) was with her and there were two girl singers with her, singing songs of the Ansar about the day of Buath. Abu Bakr(R.A.) said twice. "musical instrument of Satan!" But the Prophet (Salallahu Alaihi Wasallam) said, "Leave them Abu Bakr, for every nation has an Eid and this day is our Eid" (Sahih Bukhari: Book #58, Hadith #268)

----Brother,this hadith refers only to the permissibility of using the duff on the day of eid. Therefore, this hadith holds no weight in trying to proof the validity of all musical instruments at all times.This hadeeth shows that it was not the habit of the Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and his companions to gather to listen to singing, hence Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq called it the musical instruments of the Shaytaan.


--Infact, if you study this hadith more carefully you will realize that in reality it proves the impermissibility of music. Abu Bakr (Radhiallahu Anhu) regarded music as impermissible; therefore he attempted to stop the two slaves. Nabi (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) then informed him of the permissibility of beating the duff on the day of eid. (Ruh al maani 15/413, Umdah al Qari 10/259, Fath al Bari 2/513).



--Also consider that Nabi (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) did not disapprove Abu Bakr (Radhi Allah Anhu) calling those musical instruments the instruments of Shaytaan.


--The great commentator of Sahih-al-Bukhari, Hafidh Ibn Hajar (Rahimahullah) also emphasized that this hadith cannot be used to prove the permissibility of music in any circumstance.


--Ibn Rajab (Rahimahullah) stressed that this hadith is specific to the day of Eid. The permissibility cannot be taken as general.




--It is certainly Permissible, in fact, desirable to express happiness on happy occasions like Eid, etc. However, the expressions must be within the limits of Shari'ah.




--A great Sufi, Imaam Abu Abdillah ibn al-Toobi al-Saqaly has said,"Sufism is not wearing patched clothing and not by crying when singers sing and not by screaming and not by dancing. In fact, Sufism is that you follow the Haqq and Qura'an. You must have fear for Allah,be full of remorse of your sins at all times".

 

[Pakistani1947]

Narrated Hadhrat Aisha (R.A.): That once Abu Bakr(R.A.) came to her on the day of 'Id-ul-Fitr or 'Id ul Adha while the Prophet (Salallahu Alaihi Wasallam) was with her and there were two girl singers with her, singing songs of the Ansar about the day of Buath. Abu Bakr(R.A.) said twice. "musical instrument of Satan!" But the Prophet (Salallahu Alaihi Wasallam) said, "Leave them Abu Bakr, for every nation has an Eid and this day is our Eid" (Sahih Bukhari: Book #58, Hadith #268)

----Brother,this hadith refers only to the permissibility of using the duff on the day of eid. Therefore, this hadith holds no weight in trying to proof the validity of all musical instruments at all times.This hadeeth shows that it was not the habit of the Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and his companions to gather to listen to singing, hence Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq called it the musical instruments of the Shaytaan.

--Infact, if you study this hadith more carefully you will realize that in reality it proves the impermissibility of music. Abu Bakr (Radhiallahu Anhu) regarded music as impermissible; therefore he attempted to stop the two slaves. Nabi (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) then informed him of the permissibility of beating the duff on the day of eid. (Ruh al maani 15/413, Umdah al Qari 10/259, Fath al Bari 2/513).

--Also consider that Nabi (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) did not disapprove Abu Bakr (Radhi Allah Anhu) calling those musical instruments the instruments of Shaytaan.

--The great commentator of Sahih-al-Bukhari, Hafidh Ibn Hajar (Rahimahullah) also emphasized that this hadith cannot be used to prove the permissibility of music in any circumstance.

--Ibn Rajab (Rahimahullah) stressed that this hadith is specific to the day of Eid. The permissibility cannot be taken as general.

--It is certainly Permissible, in fact, desirable to express happiness on happy occasions like Eid, etc. However, the expressions must be within the limits of Shari'ah.

--A great Sufi, Imaam Abu Abdillah ibn al-Toobi al-Saqaly has said,"Sufism is not wearing patched clothing and not by crying when singers sing and not by screaming and not by dancing. In fact, Sufism is that you follow the Haqq and Qura'an. You must have fear for Allah, full of remorse for you sins at all times".

--In view of this, the real and true Sufi is the one who abstains from doubtful matters and copying / resembling the enemies of Islam.

Jizakallah my brother taul,

You have responded so nicely to these people who managed to bring only one hadith (even that one Hadeeth proves the impermissibility of music) after 3 days NOT IN EFFORT TO GLORIFY QUR'AAN AND SUNNAH but to justify the saying of their peer, faqeer, wali who claims to be in contact with Prophet Muhammad (??? ???? ???? ???? ????) via dreams. They are so addicted to their peers that they can even dare to reject very clear Qur'aanic verses by manipulating the translation (??????????).

When you tell something which is against Qur'aan and Sunnah, instead of searching truch in Quraan and hadeeth they would start bashing you by giving you names like "layman","CIA agent", "deobandi", "Wahabi", "Qadyani", "Pervaizi","paid agent", "expert hired by the almi majlis", "fasadis"," Takfiries", "tahaffuz maulvis" and "copy & paste" etc. etc.

They don't have courage to look truth in Quraan and Hadith directly, instead they would go to their peers (they call them "Mujtahid") and would seek for their ruling. Then they would start looking for material in Zakheera-e-Ahadeeth which can justify ruling of their so-called "Mujtahid" ; they would try to quote unauthentic Hadeeth or even irrelevant Hadeeth to justify their peers point of view. Then they feel very proud to justify their "peer's" ruling without realizing that they have turned down the ruling of Prophet Mohammad (??? ???? ???? ???? ????).

I am really very sorry if I am hurting anybody's feeling but religion Islam is not a joke. You have to keep on telling the truth, regardless what people think of you.

On the day of judgment, in front of Allah, if you were found guilty of blindly following a peer, thinking because that peer is in direct contact with Prophet Mohammad (??? ???? ???? ???? ????) in their dreams so what ever he is saying is correct then would you have any way out in front of Allah, except His Mercy?
???? ???? ???????? ?? ??? ??? - ??? ???? ????? ????? ?? ???? ?? ????? ?? - ????

 

[Knowledge Seeker]

@ Taul
I would repeat my earlier response for you in this post.


taul wrote:
The turkish song with the music that got them in the groove,i hope you also do not believe any kalaam be it even Naat being supplemented with the modern day's musical instruments to be correct.

The most important approach we should take is not to make fun or criticise other Muslim groups actions or beliefs merely depending on our School of thought, mindset and faith.

Just to let you know, there are two well known Schools of thought in Muslims all over the world regarding the issue of Music based on research of Islamic ruling as mentioned below:

1. Music is haram regardless of good kalam. However, they permit the use of Duff.
2. Music is permissible except with vulgar kalam.

So even if we are agree with the research of first group, it will be dishonesty to pick video of second school of thought in order to create Fitna on this forum. It would have been far better if brother Pakistani1947 sincerely tried to understand this matter on Minhaj ul Quran forum.

Due the difference that exists regarding the issue, one should not go about condemning those who permit Music on the basis of Islamic rulings. The least offense that one commits in labelling other schools of thought is the refusal to give Muslims the benefit of good opinion.

 

[Knowledge Seeker]

Brother,this hadith refers only to the permissibility of using the duff on the day of eid. Therefore, this hadith holds no weight in trying to proof the validity of all musical instruments at all times.This hadeeth shows that it was not the habit of the Prophet (Peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and his companions to gather to listen to singing, hence Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq called it the musical instruments of the Shaytaan.

Please enlighten me with the response of underlying questions about Hadith:

1. What Hadhrat Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq(R.A.) referred to the musical instruments of the Shaytaan??
2. If you take Hadhrat Abu Bakr (R.A.) comments about impermissibility, then can we imagine/believe about our beloved Prophet Mohammad (Salallahu Alaihi Wassallam) to listen the musical instruments of the Shaytaan even for some specific time??

--Infact, if you study this hadith more carefully you will realize that in reality it proves the impermissibility of music. Abu Bakr (Radhiallahu Anhu) regarded music as impermissible; therefore he attempted to stop the two slaves. Nabi (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) then informed him of the permissibility of beating the duff on the day of eid. (Ruh al maani 15/413, Umdah al Qari 10/259, Fath al Bari 2/513).



--Also consider that Nabi (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) did not disapprove Abu Bakr (Radhi Allah Anhu) calling those musical instruments the instruments of Shaytaan.


--The great commentator of Sahih-al-Bukhari, Hafidh Ibn Hajar (Rahimahullah) also emphasized that this hadith cannot be used to prove the permissibility of music in any circumstance.


--Ibn Rajab (Rahimahullah) stressed that this hadith is specific to the day of Eid. The permissibility cannot be taken as general.




--It is certainly Permissible, in fact, desirable to express happiness on happy occasions like Eid, etc. However, the expressions must be within the limits of Shari'ah.




--A great Sufi, Imaam Abu Abdillah ibn al-Toobi al-Saqaly has said,"Sufism is not wearing patched clothing and not by crying when singers sing and not by screaming and not by dancing. In fact, Sufism is that you follow the Haqq and Qura'an. You must have fear for Allah,be full of remorse of your sins at all times".

Whatever you have provided about the interpretation of Hadith is the view of first group of Scholars. How about the second group of Muhaditheen and jurists?

In fact, Many Islamic scholars since the early centuries till present days have been presenting this Hadith regarding the permissibility of Music and singing. Following are some references for you:

1) Imam Ghazali(450-505 AH) brings up this hadith to demonstrate 'nass' or what the Sunna says:

Narrated Aisha:

Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) came to my house while two girls were singing beside me the songs of Buath. The Prophet (p.b.u.h) lay down and turned his face to the other side. Then Abu Bakr came and spoke to me harshly saying, "Musical instruments of Satan near the Prophet (p.b.u.h) ?" Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) turned his face towards him and said, "Leave them......"

The gist of the argument is that because the Prophet, peace be upon him, didn't explicitly prevent singing in these situations, but allowed it to continue, means that it is permitted.[ The Revival of Religious Sciences (Ihya'ul Ulumuddin):Volume 2:Chapter on Music]

2) Sheikh Ibn al-Arabi(560-638 AH) [ Ahkam al-Quran, 3/527]

3) Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi [Fatwa on Music in Islam]

If you are willing to learn the detail evidences of Muhadditheen and Jurists of early centuries, the study the following valuable books about the topic will be beneficial:
1) Sheikh Abdul Haq Muhadith Dehlvi(958-1052) in Assaat ul Lamat Volume 4:Page
69 and Madarij un Nabawat:Vol 1:Page 245
2) Imam Muhammad ash-Shawkani (1173-1250) : Ibtal Da'wa Al-Ijma' 'ala Tahrim
Mutlaq al-Sama'
3) Imam Ghazali (450-505 AH):Ihya'ul Ulumuddin:Volume 2:Chapter on Music
4) Imam Jalaluddin Suyuti(849-911): al-Hawi li al-fatawi. 2:234
5) Qadi Thanaullah Panipat(D. 1225 AH): Maktubat:Page 8 & Risala Sama Wa Wehdat ul Wajood

One common misconception of layman about this issue is that only Scholars associated to Tasawwaf have the opinion of permissibility of Music in Islam.

Actually, the Muhadditheen from early centuries believe that there is no Sahih Hadith regarding the impermissibility of Music in Islam. Whoever wants to confirm, please do research and let me know if It is contrary to my statement. I would provide the one reference in this regard:

Sheikh Ibn Hazm (384-456 AH) response to individuals who argue against playing musical instruments using the hadith which is attributed to Abu Malik al-Ashari and included in Bukharis collection of hadith, in which the Prophet (S) says: From among my followers, there will be some people who consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful (Al-Bukhari, Comment 5590) ibn hazm said this hadith contains a broken chain of narrator: which is a gap between al-Bukhari and the second narrator, Sadqa ibn Khalid.

in accordance with to Ibn Hazm, nothing in this chapter [on music] is correct; rather everything here is invented. [He continues to say] I swear to God if all these hadiths, or even one, were transmitted by a trustworthy source, [and thus this ruling could be traced] back to the time of the Prophet (upon him be peace), I would not hesitate to follow it.(Ibn Hazm, al-Mahali, 7/565)

 

[taul]

1. What Hadhrat Abu Bakr al-Siddeeq(R.A.) referred to the musical instruments of the Shaytaan??

--Brother,as clearly mentioned in the hadith itself,Hazrat Abu Bakr Saddeeq ( Radi-Allahu-Anhu) referred and reflected upon seeing "duff " which was available at that time and being played as the "musical instruments of Shaytaan".

2. If you take Hadhrat Abu Bakr (R.A.) comments about impermissibility, then can we imagine/believe about our beloved Prophet Mohammad (Salallahu Alaihi Wassallam) to listen the musical instruments of the Shaytaan even for some specific time??

--That's the moral of the hadith which you seem to neglect and overlook!!The hadith in itself speaks volumes.By taking both the statements as they appear in the hadith and keeping the context intact,you get to see and find what Hazrat Abu Bakr Saddeeq ( Radi-Allahu-Anhu ) reflected upon as playing of " duff " the "musical instruments of Shaytaan",Our Holy Prophet ( Peace be upon him) negated his views regarding " duff " and let the girls play "duff " on that particular occasion by saying the last portion of the hadeeth " Leave them Abu Bakr, for every nation has an Eid and this day is our Eid" thus completing the hadeeth itself and hence rendering permissible and teaching what is to be played on special occasions like Eid etc, if anyone wishes to project their happiness.