What Happened to the Kilos Worth of Proof?

[amir_ali]

عمران نے صرف تین الیکشن میں حصہ لیا اور تم یہ کیسے کہہ سکتے ہو کہ اس نے الیکشن میں دھاندلی کی شکایت نہیں کی۔ انہوں نے تو 1997،2002 اور 2013 تمام میں شکایت کی ہیں لیکن چونکہ اس زمانے ثبوت مہیا کرنا بُہت مشکل کام تھا اور عمران کی پارٹی اور وسائل بھی اتنے نہیں تھے کہ دھاندلی کو ثابت کرنے کے لیے کورٹ کچہریاں بھگتے۔ 2002 الیکشن کے لیے تو عمران کو اپنی گاڑی بھی بھیجنی پڑی اور پارٹی 10 لاکھ روپے کی مقروض بھی ہو گئی۔

دوسرا یہ الزام بڑا مضحکہ خیز ہے اور کسی پست ذہنیت کی علامت ہے کہ عمران صرف وزیر اعظم بنے کے لیے یہ سب کچھ کر رہا ہے۔ اور ایسے بندے کو اپنے دماغ کا علاج کرانا چاہیے۔ اگر عمران چاہتا تو 1987 میں وزیر بن سکتا تھا، 1992 اور 1997 میں نواز شریف خود اسے سیٹوں کی آفرز دیتا رہا، 2002 میں اگر وہ مشرف کے ساتھ رہتا تو یقینی طور پر بڑے آسانی سے وزیر اعظم بن سکتا تھا۔ یہانتک کہ بے نظیر عمران کی بُہت عزت کرتی اور پارٹی میں اسے کوئی سا بھی عہدہ بڑے آسانی سے مل سکتا تھا۔ اور اب بھی وہ چاہے تو نواز شریف اسے ہر چیز اسے دینے کے لیے تیار بیٹھا ۔

ویسے ایک سوال کہ عمران کو وزیراعظم بننے کے بعد کیا مل جائیگا جو اب اسکے پاس نہیں؟

انسان کو فضول باتیں کرنے سے پہلے کچھ سوچنا چاہیے۔

انسان کو فضول باتیں کرنے سے پہلے کچھ سوچنا چاہیے۔

 

[miafridi]

He has repeatedly shown the proof's specially in the said 4 constituencies in different jalsas and press conferences, Plus CJ and Najam Sethi's role and getting rewards after that role, Plus role of ECP members and their reward afterwards. So i wonder how did you miss his speeches and all these things when he had disclosed these things in almost every speech?

 

[Humi]

He has repeatedly shown the proof's specially in the said 4 constituencies in different jalsas and press conferences, Plus CJ and Najam Sethi's role and getting rewards after that role, Plus role of ECP members and their reward afterwards. So i wonder how did you miss his speeches and all these things when he had disclosed these things in almost every speech?

Again u missed my point...international media is focused...why are you not bringing it up instead of showing the word some dance skills!

 

[Nice2MU]

انسان کو فضول باتیں کرنے سے پہلے کچھ سوچنا چاہیے۔

Yee baathay Akal Mandu kay leea hain, Akal say Paidal Potwario ka leea nahi

 

[miafridi]

Again u missed my point...international media is focused...why are you not bringing it up instead of showing the word some dance skills!

You mean International media is interested in getting the minute details of the constituencies rigged? I think International media only gets the headlines as why IK is opposing the government without caring for the rigged constituncies, They won't even know what is meant by NA-125 and PK-4 etc nor they need to go into details... The international media only needs to know why the rally is being held and they only needs to know that IK says, "PML-N rigged elections", "ECP and CJ was their accomplices in this mission", "The courts and tribunals are not hearing their cases despite having to solve cases in 4 months but its now 1 and half yeas etc".

 

[MHAMZA]

1. If rigging was so widespread, why was the outcome of the elections accepted in the first place? PTI is new party revolving around Imran Khan, he was on bed fighting for his life.

2.Why does PTI keep demanding the resignation of Prime Minister, is he the sole culprit behind rigging? He is the biggest beneficiary.
3.Why doesn't PTI have a better partner in this regime-toppling game other than a 'revolutionary' TUQ? All other so called democratic parties have stake in the current rotten system. Imran could have done that in KPK but he is different.

4.Why does Imran Khan think he can accuse anyone, any time, anywhere of rigging, without enough evidence? Do not know what kind of evidence you are looking for. In any other country election would have been voided in the presence of first hand images and videos of rigging that appeared during and after the election. Welcome to pakistan.

Source: Comments by someone in DAWN

 

[amir_ali]

Yee baathay Akal Mandu kay leea hain, Akal say Paidal Potwario ka leea nahi

انسان کو فضول باتیں کرنے سے پہلے کچھ سوچنا چاہیے۔

 

[Nice2MU]

انسان کو فضول باتیں کرنے سے پہلے کچھ سوچنا چاہیے۔

Copy past kartay rahu.... Potwari

 

[mrk123]

Again u missed my point...international media is focused...why are you not bringing it up instead of showing the word some dance skills!

They don't have any proofs that could be called slam dunk.

As you said there is rigging in all Pakistani elections. This time around we had more proofs because of media and ubiquity of cellphone cameras.

The problem is that in Pakistan you can't prove anything 'beyond reasonable' doubt.

You may have seen the video of Punjab law minister demanding money from a person accused of massive financial fraud. Yet he has the gall to come on TV and deny everything and in fact pleaded that what he was doing was all kosher. This is the state we are in.

I agree with you that IK make claims that he can't back up.

I still don't have a problem with the dharna or prtotest as long as its peaceful and nothing extra-constitutional comes out of it.

These pressure tactics are used by political parties the world over but in Pakistan we are being told that you have to let the system run the way it does otherwise
we will have the 'bhow' rule us.

The problem is that Zardari government was the worst in the history of Pakistan yet they were able to complete its term. In parliamentary democracy there is a provision that
you could force a non-functioning or unpopular government to wrap up and go home but Sharifs didn't even bat an eyelash at all the corruption and mismanagemnt just because
they were waiting for their 'turn' as guaranteed by the foreign guarantors. Thats basically what people are claiming that the rigging happens but this rigging had another layer and it was designed to benefit a certain party. But of course no one has solid proof of this accusation/claim - therein lies our dilemma.

 

[Sniper]

I remember IK saying that he had a very very heavy box which contained proof of rigging done in the last election and that he was going to share it once he got to Islamabad. It has been more than a week. Why has he not shown anyone even a single page out of that pandora box? Not just the Pakistani media but the international media is focused on this march as well. What better way is there to get rid of NS than showing proof of the rigging done to the media? Even US then can't say that this government is elected and has every right to stay!

Rigging happens in all Pakistani elections but why are we not seeing proof if IK has any? Its the fastest way to get rid of NS. Another U-Turn? Or he never had any proof to begin with? I see no reasonable justification for lack of proof shown to media. Any thoughts?

Apni aqal (sorry wo tou aap kay pass hai hi nahi) naa use krna.

 

[Sniper]

I remember IK saying that he had a very very heavy box which contained proof of rigging done in the last election and that he was going to share it once he got to Islamabad. It has been more than a week. Why has he not shown anyone even a single page out of that pandora box? Not just the Pakistani media but the international media is focused on this march as well. What better way is there to get rid of NS than showing proof of the rigging done to the media? Even US then can't say that this government is elected and has every right to stay!

Rigging happens in all Pakistani elections but why are we not seeing proof if IK has any? Its the fastest way to get rid of NS. Another U-Turn? Or he never had any proof to begin with? I see no reasonable justification for lack of proof shown to media. Any thoughts?

Counting complete honay or Selection Commission ki final announcement say pehle hi victory speech krna kya rigging nahi hai???

 

[Annie]

Again u missed my point...international media is focused...why are you not bringing it up instead of showing the word some dance skills!

Huma there is the report from EU international organisation who was monitoring this election.. International world is aware of this so called established democracy and rigged election...the problem is the proofs were given by PTI but they were supposed to be verified and investigated by the court to justify the matter which unfortunately never happened... I know you won't be able to go through all of it I will just copy few points from that report.

http://www.eueom.eu/files/pressreleases/english/eu-eom-pakistan-2013-final-report_en.pdf

Here is the just some lines to reflects the credibility of the deceiving election...

Extract from report: (page 3: last 3rd paragraph)

Requirements for transparency were not met. For example the legislation does not provide for
observer access and for results information to be made publicly accessible. Furthermore the ECP did
not always make information of public interest easily available and in a timely manner. For example
notifications of ECP decisions, data on changes to the polling station scheme, and results records.

Besides there are few videos of those experts on youtube and they said they saw rigging themselves. I don't think international world is in dark...

 

[Qarar]

[h=1]What Happened to the Kilos Worth of Proof?[/h]
شاید ان ثبوتوں نے سلیمانی ٹوپی پہنی ہوئی ہے


وائٹ پپیر الزامات ہیں...ان کو ثبوتوں کے ساتھ عدالت میں پیش کیا جانا ضروری ہے ....اگر ایک الزام کو دس بار جلسوں میں دہرایا جائے تو وہ الزام سچ نہیں بن جاتا ...عدالت کو بائی پاس نہیں کیا جا سکتا ....ناصر الملک پر تو عمران کو اعتماد ہے پھر دیر کس بات کی؟

 

[Humi]

point made, I was discussing the same thing with a die hard PTI supporter and we concluded that it should have been put to use in a more effective manner, afterall that's the basis of PM's resignation demand. :)

Thanks again for not being a blind supporter of PTI and recognizing that it could do better! I really really appreciate it. Everytime I see the convert that concert instead of something productive it gives me the creeps :(

 

[Petrolhead]

Dude that is the point, he only wants NS and sharifs to be out of politics, because he knows he can do nothing in interior Sindh and Baluchistan and definitely KPK even unanimously cannot get him to power. The only battle ground is Punjab and sharifs have proved in last 30 years that majority of the province is with them, they have been tried in favorable and unfavorable election conditions every time they have come out with high percentage of votes. After the demise of PPP in Punjab and no other political force, IK has to defeat N-league to come to power. Is it possible to defeat N-league in Punjab if they are contesting, whether its under partial or impartial caretaker government, the answer is plain no he may get extra few seats but this is impossible for him to get a majority from Punjab, so whats the solution get the N-league out of politics, i can bet even if NS resigns, IK will not stop his rants and will move ahead to force them out of politics. HE has no problems with zadari, AH or others, this is a political war nothing for awam, he is not standing on the container roof top for awam or rigging its to break the only wall which stands between him and power.

:lol::lol::lol:[hilar][hilar][hilar]:lol::lol::lol:

 

[Humi]

نام میرا نادان ہے اور نادانوں والی باتیں آپ کر رہی ہیں .
:lol:

maybe i just felt like plagiarising your name today? :P

 

[Humi]

Apni aqal (sorry wo tou aap kay pass hai hi nahi) naa use krna.

Array wah Sniper Bhayya...aap toh insaan ko eik nazar I mean comment mein pehchaan letay hain...:lol:...dont worry...nahin use karoon gi...:P...well baqoul aap kat use kar hi nahin sakti kyunki jo hai nahin woh istimaal kaisay ho ga...[hilar][hilar]

 

[Humi]

They don't have any proofs that could be called slam dunk.

As you said there is rigging in all Pakistani elections. This time around we had more proofs because of media and ubiquity of cellphone cameras.

The problem is that in Pakistan you can't prove anything 'beyond reasonable' doubt.

You may have seen the video of Punjab law minister demanding money from a person accused of massive financial fraud. Yet he has the gall to come on TV and deny everything and in fact pleaded that what he was doing was all kosher. This is the state we are in.

I agree with you that IK make claims that he can't back up.

I still don't have a problem with the dharna or prtotest as long as its peaceful and nothing extra-constitutional comes out of it.

These pressure tactics are used by political parties the world over but in Pakistan we are being told that you have to let the system run the way it does otherwise
we will have the 'bhow' rule us.

The problem is that Zardari government was the worst in the history of Pakistan yet they were able to complete its term. In parliamentary democracy there is a provision that
you could force a non-functioning or unpopular government to wrap up and go home but Sharifs didn't even bat an eyelash at all the corruption and mismanagemnt just because
they were waiting for their 'turn' as guaranteed by the foreign guarantors. Thats basically what people are claiming that the rigging happens but this rigging had another layer and it was designed to benefit a certain party. But of course no one has solid proof of this accusation/claim - therein lies our dilemma.

Agreed...my only problem is that IK shouldn't make tall claims that he knows or ought to knows that he can't keep...it just makes him look like a liar and makes the qoum believe that everything is all right and then their hopes crash and burn again and again...:(

 

[Humi]

Kindly make up your mind that which side you are on? One day you talk in favor of PTI and next day you are putting objections on PTI. Are you trying to deceive online members by telling you are pro PTI? Because you are not.

I don't support either....you probably thought I support PTI as I bash NS waaay more than I have ever IK....I respect IK for what he has done for the people of this country so I generally refrain from doing that but I do not respect his politics...he should not be making claims and saying things that he does not do...

 

[Humi]

Anyone knows any election in Pakistan where there was no rigging? Imran was part of a few of them but never complained. NS has done nothing for the common people - 100% agreed, NS has all his relatives in government - 100% agreed, BUT is this dharna for common people of Pakistan or for Imran to become a PM?

It seems to me like it is for both reasons....but the second reason seems to be over-powering...you are so focused on becoming PM that you are not even talking about the proof of rigging...(cry)