The Kind of Music/Raqs Allowed in Islam - A clarifying discussion by the Ahle Sunnah Wal Jamaah

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modern fakir

MPA (400+ posts)
Re: Clarification and Refutation of Raqs - Ahle Sunnah Wal Jamaah

Brother serving islam ..you truly are a servant like me of Rasullullah Swt and I am most probably nothing infront of the Great Scholar and deny any claim to any knowledge and just want to live under the love of Allah swt and His Rasoolullah pbuh.. But you are doing a great job Alhumdulillah !:)
 

simple_and_peacefull

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Clarification and Refutation of Raqs - Ahle Sunnah Wal Jamaah

Dear modern fiker

What is point of repeat same topic again and again. Why you can't countinue In same thread one.

My request to you & and mods .. Please merge it with earlier one or close it.
 

modern fakir

MPA (400+ posts)
Re: Clarification and Refutation of Raqs - Ahle Sunnah Wal Jamaah

Brother, the mod closed the thread and their was some absolute rubbish posted by Pakistan1947 which had to be refuted ..I totally agree it should be merged !

Dear modern fiker

What is point of repeat same topic again and again. Why you can't countinue In same thread one.

My request to you & and mods .. Please merge it with earlier one or close it.
 

Internet

Banned
Re: Clarification and Refutation of Raqs - Ahle Sunnah Wal Jamaah

Wahabis will do anything to depress humans. They are enemies of humanity. My favourite number is

 

lotaa

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: Clarification and Refutation of Raqs - Ahle Sunnah Wal Jamaah

:jazak:, Nice post
quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by modern fakir

This indicates that these two girls were not so young as claimed by some scholars. If they were, Abu Bakr would not have been angry with them in such manner. In addition, in this hadith, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) wanted to teach the Jews that Islam has room for merriment and that he himself was sent with a moderate and flexible legislation. There is also another important lesson to learn here. It draws our attention to the fact that one needs to introduce Islam to others in a good fashion, along with displaying its moderateness and magnanimity.





This is perfect example of blind following. Why don't you clearly say that you would not accept even authentic Hadeeths if it is against the believe of your Peer. Have some fear of Allah and do not twist the Hadeeth by adding your own assumptions! -

No Pakistan1947...The problem is You have PEER-O-PHOBIA ...where every legit scholar appears as a Peer to you(bigsmile)...Everytime a proper scholar comments on something you get a severe bowel movement when you yourself are worth nothing in terms of knowledge and get ridiculed and severely exposed on this forum for following beliefs created by YOU YOURSELF and your like minded Hicks !

Any scholarly work is unacceptable to you...EVEN when the Proper Hadith are presented to you ..your thick head is so indoctrinated with NAJDI ideology that you fail to accept even the slightest of alternate opinions. That my friend is the problem with you !(bigsmile)


And Alhamdullilah we have no problem following Peers because we rather follow learned men in Islam then self concocted and self made versions of


Let me see how you would twist the meaning of another Hadeeth, regarding the same issue, where clearly the word "two small Ansari girls" is used:


Narrated Aisha: Abu Bakr came to my house while two small Ansari girls were singing beside me the stories of the Ansar concerning the Day of Buath. And they were not singers. Abu Bakr said protestingly, "musical instruments of Satan in the house of Allah's Apostle !" It happened on the 'Id day and Allah's Apostle said, "O Abu Bakr! There is an 'Id for every nation and this is our 'Id." (Sahih Bukhari, Book #15, Eids, Hadith #72)

-
Now, i have clearly Refuted that the TWO SMALL girls are reciting to Bibi Aisha ra because she is a lady ..Would it have made sense for Young Boys to have recited to her Nauzubillah...ONLY A CORRUPT MIND CAN even think of this ..YOU ARE INDEED SICK !! ??...You my friend are so far burning in rage that common sense has no effect on you ...And by the way this is the Hadith of Raqs where Hazrat Jafar Bin abi Talib ra >====== He is a MAN

Ali ibn Abi Talib(ra) states:

حَدَّثَنَا ‏ ‏أَسْوَدُ يَعْنِي ابْنَ عَامِرٍ ‏ ‏أَنْبَأَنَا ‏ ‏إِسْرَائِيلُ ‏ ‏عَنْ ‏ ‏أَبِي إِسْحَاقَ ‏ ‏عَنْ ‏ ‏هَانِئِ بْنِ هَانِئٍ ‏ ‏عَنْ ‏ ‏عَلِيٍّ ‏ ‏رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ ‏ ‏قَالَ ‏أَتَيْتُ النَّبِيَّ ‏ ‏صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ ‏ ‏وَجَعْفَرٌ ‏ ‏وَزَيْدٌ ‏ ‏قَالَ ‏ ‏فَقَالَ ‏ ‏لِزَيْدٍ ‏ ‏أَنْتَ ‏ ‏ مَوْلَايَ ‏ ‏ فَحَجَلَ ‏ ‏قَالَ وَقَالَ ‏ ‏لِجَعْفَرٍ ‏ ‏أَنْتَ أَشْبَهْتَ خَلْقِي وَخُلُقِي قَالَ ‏ ‏ فَحَجَلَ ‏ ‏وَرَاءَ ‏ ‏زَيْدٍ ‏ ‏قَالَ وَقَالَ لِي أَنْتَ مِنِّي وَأَنَا مِنْكَ قَالَ ‏ ‏ فَحَجَلْتُ ‏ ‏وَرَاءَ ‏ ‏جَعْفَرٍ

Aswad narrated to us that Isra’il informed us from Abi Is-haaq from Haani ibn Haani’ from ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib that he said, “I visited the Prophet (Sallallahu ‘alayhi wa Sallam) with
Ja’far [ibn Abī Tālib] and Zayd [ibn Harithah] <======= They are Both MEN because Our Beloved Prophet pbuh is Mashallah Present. The Prophet (Sallallāhu ‘alayhi wa Sallam) said to Zayd, “You are my freedman (mawlā’i), whereupon Zayd ( THE MAN (bigsmile)) began to Hajala (hop on one leg- a type of dancing) around the Prophet (Sallallāhu ‘alayhi wa Sallam). The Prophet (Sallallāhu ‘alayhi wa Sallam) then said to Ja’far: “You resemble me in my physical form and character” (Khalqī wa Khuluqī), whereupon Ja’far began to do the same behind Zayd (<==== The Man). The Nabi (Sallallāhu ‘alayhi wa Sallam) then said to me, “You are a part of me and I am a part of you” (anta minnī wa anā mink) whereupon I began to do the same behind Ja’far.”

Now Two girls (Women) singing infront of Bibi Aisha ra (Woman) ummul momineen and and SAHABI MEN Dancing infront of the Prophet Pbuh.....I will write this one more time M-E-N ...(bigsmile)(bigsmile)

So now Pakistan1947 ..here is logic ...Woman sing for Woman = Islam
Man sings for Man = Islam
Women sings for Man = We all know what that is (bigsmile)

You know what, even after this I can assure you, you wont understand ..because najdi ideology is very hard to get rid off ![hilar][hilar]

 

lotaa

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: Clarification and Refutation of Raqs - Ahle Sunnah Wal Jamaah

:jazak: Nice post again,
Proofs of Sufi Dancing [raqs]

Hadith # 1

حدّثنا عبد الله حدثني أبي، ثنا عبد الصمد قال: ثنا حماد ، عن ثابت ، عن أنس قال: كانت الحبشة يزفنون بين يدي رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلّم ويرقصون ويقولون: محمد عبد صالح ، فقال رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلّم: ما يقولون؟ قالوا: يقولون: محمد عبد صالح

It is narrated by Anas (R.A) that the Habashis were present in front of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) and “THEY WERE DANCING (Yarqasun)
and saying: Muhammadun Abdun Salih (i.e. Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم the righteous slave). The Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) asked: What are they saying? They said: Muhammadun Abdun Salih
,
[Musnad Ahmed bin Hanbal, Volume No.3, Page no. 152]
,
Note : All narrators of this hadith are those of Sahih bukhari and muslim
,
Shu’yb al Aran’ut said after this hadith:
,
إسناده صحيح على شرط مسلم
,
The Chain is “SAHIH” on the criteria of “MUSLIM” [ibid]

Imam Nawawi (rah) on Above hadithsaid

with commentary by Muhammad Shirbini Khatib It is not prohibited to dance ((Shirbini ) which is not unlawful because it is only motions made while standing or bowing. Furani and others have expressly stated that neither is it offensive, but rather, is permissible, as is attested to by the hadith related in the Sahihs of Bukhari and Muslim that the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) stood before ‘A’isha (Allah be well pleased with her) to screen her from view so that she could observe the Abyssinians sporting and dancing) – unless it is languid, like the movements of the effeminate (Mughni al-muhtaj ila ma’rifa ma’ani alfaz al-Minhaj (y73), 4.430)

Imam Ibn Hajar Al-Haytami (Rah) on above Hadith said about above hadith

Beating the kuba is prohibited… but dancing isn’t, being neither prohibited nor offensive, because it is only motions made while standing or bowing, and further because he (sallallahu alayhi wa sallam) consented to the Abyssinians doing so in his mosque on the day of Eid, as related by Bukhari and Muslim.

The bold text is from the Minhaj of Imam Nawawi while the rest is Ibn Hajar’s commentary [Tuhfa al-Muhtaj fi Sharh al-Minhaj]


,
Now how many other imams [rah] of Hadith used the word Raqs "Dance" although a Salaf is enough proof in this case but still

1": Imam Tabarani [rah] used the word Raqs [dancing] Reference: Hadith #3 on page 121, Volume 9

2: Imam Nisai [rah] in Sunan Al Kubra using the word Dance "RAQS"] in page # 309, Vol 5 with same Sahih chain and says

that the Abysinians were standing in front of the door of the Holy Prophet e’s house and were ‘ecstatically dancing’ or performing raqs on anticipation of seeing the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw)

3: Imam Zamakshari also explained the same haditth with a Sahih chain calling it Raqs , And said Qala al zafaru Al Raqs The word in the hadith means Raqs

4: Imam Suyuti [rah] in[ Sharh Sahih Bukhari pg 123, Al hajl Al tawseeh] said " Al hajalo al raqs biha til maqstatin "

5: Imam Juhri [in kitab ul lugat pg 46] Says Al zafl wa Raqs
,
6: Imam murtaza Zubaide [rah] in Taj us uloom kitbah ul lugat ] says " Zafana zasfun zafana ie. It Stands for Raqs [dance]

7: Imam Ibn Manzoor [in lisan ul arab, most authnetic book of lugat pg 135 ] says Al Zafl Al Raqs (i.e it means Raqs )

8:
Imam Nabawi [rah] writes in sharh sahih muslim pg 347 says Mana hu yarqusoon (i.e they did Raqs)


9: Qadi Iyad [rah] said in [sarh sahih muslim pg 429 ] Al zabl hu wal raqs

So ijma of imams [rah] agreed its Raqs [dancing] what came from Sahih hadith including Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal [rah] who was a salaf himself


Hadith # 2


‘Ali ibn Abi Talib(ra) states:

حَدَّثَنَا ‏ ‏أَسْوَدُ يَعْنِي ابْنَ عَامِرٍ ‏ ‏أَنْبَأَنَا ‏ ‏إِسْرَائِيلُ ‏ ‏عَنْ ‏ ‏أَبِي إِسْحَاقَ ‏ ‏عَنْ ‏ ‏هَانِئِ بْنِ هَانِئٍ ‏ ‏عَنْ ‏ ‏عَلِيٍّ ‏ ‏رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ ‏ ‏قَالَ ‏أَتَيْتُ النَّبِيَّ ‏ ‏صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ ‏ ‏وَجَعْفَرٌ ‏ ‏وَزَيْدٌ ‏ ‏قَالَ ‏ ‏فَقَالَ ‏ ‏لِزَيْدٍ ‏ ‏أَنْتَ ‏ ‏ مَوْلَايَ ‏ ‏ فَحَجَلَ ‏ ‏قَالَ وَقَالَ ‏ ‏لِجَعْفَرٍ ‏ ‏أَنْتَ أَشْبَهْتَ خَلْقِي وَخُلُقِي قَالَ ‏ ‏ فَحَجَلَ ‏ ‏وَرَاءَ ‏ ‏زَيْدٍ ‏ ‏قَالَ وَقَالَ لِي أَنْتَ مِنِّي وَأَنَا مِنْكَ قَالَ ‏ ‏ فَحَجَلْتُ ‏ ‏وَرَاءَ ‏ ‏جَعْفَرٍ

Aswad narrated to us that Isra’il informed us from Abi Is-haaq from Haani ibn Haani’ from ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib that he said, “I visited the Prophet (Sallallahu ‘alayhi wa Sallam) with Ja’far [ibn Abī Tālib] and Zayd [ibn Harithah]. The Prophet (Sallallāhu ‘alayhi wa Sallam) said to Zayd, “You are my freedman (mawlā’i), whereupon Zayd began to Hajala (hop on one leg- a type of dancing) around the Prophet (Sallallāhu ‘alayhi wa Sallam). The Prophet (Sallallāhu ‘alayhi wa Sallam) then said to Ja’far: “You resemble me in my physical form and character” (Khalqī wa Khuluqī), whereupon Ja’far began to do the same behind Zayd. The Nabi (Sallallāhu ‘alayhi wa Sallam) then said to me, “You are a part of me and I am a part of you” (anta minnī wa anā mink) whereupon I began to do the same behind Ja’far.”

References

►This is reported by Imām Ahmad in his Musnad (1:537 #857)2.

► Ash-Shākir declared it authentic in his review of the Musnad.

► Al-Bazzār in his Musnad with a sound chain according to Imām Al-Haythamī in his Majma’ Az-Zawā’id (5:157).

►Also reported by Imām Al-Bayhaqī in his Sunan Al-Kubrā (8:6 #15548, 20816)

►as well as Ibn Abī Shaybah in his Musannaf.

►Ibn Sa’ad reported this in Mursal form in his Tabaqāt, 4:22.

Authenticity of Above Hadith

Regarding one narrator Hani bin Hani who some ignorants use to prove above hadith weak

Imam Dhahabi (rah) said in full in his Meezan,

هانئ بن هانئ عن على رضى الله عنه. قال ابن المدينى: مجهول. وقال النسائي: ليس به بأس. وذكره ابن حبان في الثقات

Translation: Hani bin Hani narrated from Ali (Radhi Allaho Anho). Ibn Mudayni said he is Majhool. Imam Nasai (rah) said:THERE IS NO HARM IN HIM” and Ibn Hibban mentioned him in his “THIQAAT (Reliable narrators)” [Mizan ul Aitidal (7/71)]


Imam Tirimdhi declared many ahadith from Hani bin Hani as “HASAN SAHIH” [SunnanTirimdhi Volume No.5, Hadith #3798]

Imam Ibn Majah (rah) narrated from him and did Sukoot [Sunnan Ibn Majah, Muqadma, Hadith # 143]

Imam Ibn Hibban mentioned him in his Kitab ul Thiqaat (5/508)

Muhadith Shaykh Ahmad Shaakir in his Tahqiq of Musnad Ahmad where he said: “Its chain is sound (إسناده صحيح)“ [Musnad Ahmad Volume 001, Page No. 537, Hadith Number 857, FN: 2]

Imam Ibn Hajr al Haythami (rah) said about ahadith having Hani bin Hani

ورجال أحمد والبزار رجال الصحيح غير هانىء بن هانىء وهو ثقة

Translation: The Rijaal of Ahmed and Bazaar are those of Sahih except Hani bin Hani who is “THIQA” [Majma az Zawaid (8/102)]

Imam Hakim declared ahadith from Hani bin Hani as “SAHIH” [Mustadrak al Hakim (3/179)]

Imam al Ajli (rah) said:

1885 ـ هانىء ابن هانىء، كوفي، تابعي ثقة.

Translation: Hani bin Hani, Kufi “TABI AND THIQA” [Thiqat al Ajli Volume No.1, Page No. 454]

Even famous and controversial Wahabi[salafi ] sheikh Nasir ud-din Albani declared ahadith from Hani bin Hani as “SAHIH” [Sahih Sunnan Ibn Majah by Albani, (1/119)

Scanned page of above hadith from Musnad of Imam Ahmed bin Hanbal [rah]
masnad-e-ahmad-hadess.jpg


Also
 

adnan_younus

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Clarification and Refutation of Raqs - Ahle Sunnah Wal Jamaah

again i didnt read teh post aas it was too long.. but just by looking into teh title...

raqqasa fillam dekhi hia aapne??

quote_icon.png
Originally Posted by modern fakir

This indicates that these two girls were not so young as claimed by some scholars. If they were, Abu Bakr would not have been angry with them in such manner. In addition, in this hadith, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) wanted to teach the Jews that Islam has room for merriment and that he himself was sent with a moderate and flexible legislation. There is also another important lesson to learn here. It draws our attention to the fact that one needs to introduce Islam to others in a good fashion, along with displaying its moderateness and magnanimity.





This is perfect example of blind following. Why don't you clearly say that you would not accept even authentic Hadeeths if it is against the believe of your Peer. Have some fear of Allah and do not twist the Hadeeth by adding your own assumptions! -

No Pakistan1947...The problem is You have PEER-O-PHOBIA ...where every legit scholar appears as a Peer to you(bigsmile)...Everytime a proper scholar comments on something you get a severe bowel movement when you yourself are worth nothing in terms of knowledge and get ridiculed and severely exposed on this forum for following beliefs created by YOU YOURSELF and your like minded Hicks !

Any scholarly work is unacceptable to you...EVEN when the Proper Hadith are presented to you ..your thick head is so indoctrinated with NAJDI ideology that you fail to accept even the slightest of alternate opinions. That my friend is the problem with you !(bigsmile)


And Alhamdullilah we have no problem following Peers because we rather follow learned men in Islam then self concocted and self made versions of


Let me see how you would twist the meaning of another Hadeeth, regarding the same issue, where clearly the word "two small Ansari girls" is used:


Narrated Aisha: Abu Bakr came to my house while two small Ansari girls were singing beside me the stories of the Ansar concerning the Day of Buath. And they were not singers. Abu Bakr said protestingly, "musical instruments of Satan in the house of Allah's Apostle !" It happened on the 'Id day and Allah's Apostle said, "O Abu Bakr! There is an 'Id for every nation and this is our 'Id." (Sahih Bukhari, Book #15, Eids, Hadith #72)

-
Now, i have clearly Refuted that the TWO SMALL girls are reciting to Bibi Aisha ra because she is a lady ..Would it have made sense for Young Boys to have recited to her Nauzubillah...ONLY A CORRUPT MIND CAN even think of this ..YOU ARE INDEED SICK !! ??...You my friend are so far burning in rage that common sense has no effect on you ...And by the way this is the Hadith of Raqs where Hazrat Jafar Bin abi Talib ra >====== He is a MAN

Ali ibn Abi Talib(ra) states:

حَدَّثَنَا ‏ ‏أَسْوَدُ يَعْنِي ابْنَ عَامِرٍ ‏ ‏أَنْبَأَنَا ‏ ‏إِسْرَائِيلُ ‏ ‏عَنْ ‏ ‏أَبِي إِسْحَاقَ ‏ ‏عَنْ ‏ ‏هَانِئِ بْنِ هَانِئٍ ‏ ‏عَنْ ‏ ‏عَلِيٍّ ‏ ‏رَضِيَ اللَّهُ عَنْهُ ‏ ‏قَالَ ‏أَتَيْتُ النَّبِيَّ ‏ ‏صَلَّى اللَّهُ عَلَيْهِ وَسَلَّمَ ‏ ‏وَجَعْفَرٌ ‏ ‏وَزَيْدٌ ‏ ‏قَالَ ‏ ‏فَقَالَ ‏ ‏لِزَيْدٍ ‏ ‏أَنْتَ ‏ ‏ مَوْلَايَ ‏ ‏ فَحَجَلَ ‏ ‏قَالَ وَقَالَ ‏ ‏لِجَعْفَرٍ ‏ ‏أَنْتَ أَشْبَهْتَ خَلْقِي وَخُلُقِي قَالَ ‏ ‏ فَحَجَلَ ‏ ‏وَرَاءَ ‏ ‏زَيْدٍ ‏ ‏قَالَ وَقَالَ لِي أَنْتَ مِنِّي وَأَنَا مِنْكَ قَالَ ‏ ‏ فَحَجَلْتُ ‏ ‏وَرَاءَ ‏ ‏جَعْفَرٍ

Aswad narrated to us that Isra’il informed us from Abi Is-haaq from Haani ibn Haani’ from ‘Ali ibn Abi Taalib that he said, “I visited the Prophet (Sallallahu ‘alayhi wa Sallam) with
Ja’far [ibn Abī Tālib] and Zayd [ibn Harithah] <======= They are Both MEN because Our Beloved Prophet pbuh is Mashallah Present. The Prophet (Sallallāhu ‘alayhi wa Sallam) said to Zayd, “You are my freedman (mawlā’i), whereupon Zayd ( THE MAN (bigsmile)) began to Hajala (hop on one leg- a type of dancing) around the Prophet (Sallallāhu ‘alayhi wa Sallam). The Prophet (Sallallāhu ‘alayhi wa Sallam) then said to Ja’far: “You resemble me in my physical form and character” (Khalqī wa Khuluqī), whereupon Ja’far began to do the same behind Zayd (<==== The Man). The Nabi (Sallallāhu ‘alayhi wa Sallam) then said to me, “You are a part of me and I am a part of you” (anta minnī wa anā mink) whereupon I began to do the same behind Ja’far.”

Now Two girls (Women) singing infront of Bibi Aisha ra (Woman) ummul momineen and and SAHABI MEN Dancing infront of the Prophet Pbuh.....I will write this one more time M-E-N ...(bigsmile)(bigsmile)

So now Pakistan1947 ..here is logic ...Woman sing for Woman = Islam
Man sings for Man = Islam
Women sings for Man = We all know what that is (bigsmile)

You know what, even after this I can assure you, you wont understand ..because najdi ideology is very hard to get rid off ![hilar][hilar]

 

modern fakir

MPA (400+ posts)
Re: Clarification and Refutation of Raqs - Ahle Sunnah Wal Jamaah

Choudhary ..Please stop prooving yourself as a lunatic ...and trying to attribute some faulty men to an actual and Factual Aqeedah.

If you claim that these videos are the right aqeedah then you must also claim these wahabis scholars dancing as deviations as well..All in all i can present many other such vidoes but i dont think i need to stoop to your level !
:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6CSumUAprw&feature=player_embedded
 

shaheedchoudry

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: Clarification and Refutation of Raqs - Ahle Sunnah Wal Jamaah

Choudhary ..Please stop prooving yourself as a lunatic ...and trying to attribute some faulty men to an actual and Factual Aqeedah.

If you claim that these videos are the right aqeedah then you must also claim these wahabis scholars dancing as deviations as well..All in all i can present many other such vidoes but i dont think i need to stoop to your level !
:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b6CSumUAprw&feature=player_embedded
Aina oun ko dikhaya tou bura maan gaye.
 

modern fakir

MPA (400+ posts)
Re: Clarification and Refutation of Raqs - Ahle Sunnah Wal Jamaah

Bhai video hum nahi post ker rahay app post ker rahay hain ...Hum to apko sirf ferk dikha rahay hain :)
 
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