Sublime to ridiculous, Indian culture and society.
- Thread starter Saladin A
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Bret Hawk
Senator (1k+ posts)
I think for every religion there are some of those concepts and ideologies which are claimed to contain the guiding substance for the humanity need to past these tests before making any claims of its veracity and genuineness;
Does the claimed source of that religion is clear and from those sources, who were the transmitters to promulgate its teachings and ideologies.
Does the fundamental concepts of that religion bear the onslaughts of time and those changes which are normally associated with its (Times) passage
Is the spiritual and scholastic leadership / priesthood / reformers / guides tends to revive its ideologies in testing times and without wavering much of its established claimed principles
Does those set of concepts and dogmas which constitutes the formalised religion is free from the interpolation, fabrication and distortion with the passage of time
How come the religious concepts of a particular faith appeal to the reason and intellect
I think a comprehensive material can be produced here if I want to further elaborate on the above mentioned points but I would scale it down to these few words that apart from Islam no religion, ideology, faith or any other belief system can answer to the above questions in a satisfactory manner and only Islam contains the true spirit and divinity of the Almighty in its true, uncondensed and pristine form since its inception about 1450 years ago approximately. I think those who still have the audacity to counter this fundamental argument is definitely bereft of his / her intelligence, knowledge and wisdom. Therefore theres no way one can argue with such intellectually challenged individuals if they are in the denial mould and only God Almighty can remove the dark veils on their hearts and minds no one else no matter how much one try to convince them with logic and wisdom.
P.S: Saladin bro you have a nice aesthetic taste for good articles which you laboriously search them and then post them here for persons like me. Keep up the good work and one advice brother for you dont try to convince mentally challenged retards as it will only waste your precious time and energy which you can allocate for other constructive purposes. Because its a famous saying of one sage that the person who possess wisdom and intellect can have the tendency towards logical argumentation if expressed in few words whilst for the ignorant (Not necessarily illiterate) a sea of wisdom laden words cant immerse his heart and soul with the Noor (light) of wisdom and knowledge
Does the claimed source of that religion is clear and from those sources, who were the transmitters to promulgate its teachings and ideologies.
Does the fundamental concepts of that religion bear the onslaughts of time and those changes which are normally associated with its (Times) passage
Is the spiritual and scholastic leadership / priesthood / reformers / guides tends to revive its ideologies in testing times and without wavering much of its established claimed principles
Does those set of concepts and dogmas which constitutes the formalised religion is free from the interpolation, fabrication and distortion with the passage of time
How come the religious concepts of a particular faith appeal to the reason and intellect
I think a comprehensive material can be produced here if I want to further elaborate on the above mentioned points but I would scale it down to these few words that apart from Islam no religion, ideology, faith or any other belief system can answer to the above questions in a satisfactory manner and only Islam contains the true spirit and divinity of the Almighty in its true, uncondensed and pristine form since its inception about 1450 years ago approximately. I think those who still have the audacity to counter this fundamental argument is definitely bereft of his / her intelligence, knowledge and wisdom. Therefore theres no way one can argue with such intellectually challenged individuals if they are in the denial mould and only God Almighty can remove the dark veils on their hearts and minds no one else no matter how much one try to convince them with logic and wisdom.
P.S: Saladin bro you have a nice aesthetic taste for good articles which you laboriously search them and then post them here for persons like me. Keep up the good work and one advice brother for you dont try to convince mentally challenged retards as it will only waste your precious time and energy which you can allocate for other constructive purposes. Because its a famous saying of one sage that the person who possess wisdom and intellect can have the tendency towards logical argumentation if expressed in few words whilst for the ignorant (Not necessarily illiterate) a sea of wisdom laden words cant immerse his heart and soul with the Noor (light) of wisdom and knowledge
To all friends and foes:
"Soon we will show them our signs in the (farthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?" [Al-Quran 41:53]
It is beyond human intelligence to comprehend existence of Allah (God) by scientific analysis and physical or chemical experimentation. If that was possible in a laboratory, man would claim to be a god almighty, a Pharaoh, and every scientist eligible for the throne. How then we prove that Allah (God) exits? We have discovered that something must exit other than material objects of physical existence. We know that everything exits in nature with perfect harmony and order and that there must be some sort of force behind the universe, but an intelligent with a purpose and will. Without intelligence, nothing can be created and it is absurd to assume that anything could emerge, jump out or erupt from nothingness.
The Quran says: Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? Or did they themselves create the heavens and the earth? Nay, they have no firm belief. At-Tur 52.35-.36).
Human reason is incapable of knowing the metaphysical world, as it cannot transcend the boundaries of space and time. Space and time are not objective realities and as they are only modes of apprehending phenomenal realities, they are essentially subjective and have no existence apart from the subject. Human reason has the ability to know only the temporal world and metaphysical is an attempt to know the ultimate realities with limitation. But, there is another level," intuition," that is unique in its experience and essentially different from other mode of cognition. It is not perception or thought and transcends to the heights of unknown. It negates logical, physical and scientific.
The further we advance in science, however, small, arguments become more eloquent and pronounced in favour of the existence of the Creator, Allah(SUT). I would like to give an example of this poor old lady who was weaving wool on her cartwheel and a Sufi passing by asked her, "Do you believe in God" "Yes I do", she said. But what is the proof and how you do you know that He exists? She replied that this wheel tells her everything; if I move it, it moves.
Islam is not just a religion; it is a way of life. The Arabic word, deen reflects a whole way of living, rather than simply a collection of rituals. It means following Islam in every aspect of life. Its distinct features are two: (1) harmonious equilibrium between temporal and the spiritual, permitting a full enjoyment of all that Allah has created; belief in one God without images and symbols. (2) All believers becoming brothers and sisters and equals without any distinction of class, race or tongue. The only superiority, which it recognizes, is a personal one, based on greater fear of God and greater piety. Islam seeks to establish a world community where every individual makes a constant effort for spreading the good and prevent evil. In Islam, we object to polytheism because it would entail the difficulty of division between several gods, if not a civil war. In our view, division of Divine power is impracticable and unsustainable and is an absurd man-made- pagan concept that was popular when human mind was least developed and suited only that epoch.
The best way to analyze the concept of God in any Religion is to analyze what the scriptures of that religion speak of Almighty God, and not by examining what its adherents do or believe because many of the followers themselves do not know what their religious scriptures state about Almighty God. The Glorious Quran says in Surah Al Imran, Ch. No. 3, V. No. 64: Say: "O people of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: Which is the first term? that we worship none but Allah (God); that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not from among ourselves Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back say: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's will)."
We are instructed in the Koran not to veer to extremes but adhere to ummatum wassatun (middle path) and refrain from excess of any kind and 99.99% of over 1.50 billon Muslims in the world earnestly strive to attain this middle ground, which is the most fertile ground in which to practice our 'Deen' as Allah intended for us: an Islam of peace, compassion, mercy, tolerance and justice for all. Magnanimity is very much admired by Muslims and it is considered a sin if we ill-treat or harm an enemy at our mercy; it is our religious and moral duty to protect him from all harms. In Islamic civilization and rules, Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians, Hindus and other people of various beliefs enjoyed religious freedom and equal rights. This reflected the teachings of the Quran, which is pluralistic scripture and affirmation of others traditions.
"Soon we will show them our signs in the (farthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?" [Al-Quran 41:53]
It is beyond human intelligence to comprehend existence of Allah (God) by scientific analysis and physical or chemical experimentation. If that was possible in a laboratory, man would claim to be a god almighty, a Pharaoh, and every scientist eligible for the throne. How then we prove that Allah (God) exits? We have discovered that something must exit other than material objects of physical existence. We know that everything exits in nature with perfect harmony and order and that there must be some sort of force behind the universe, but an intelligent with a purpose and will. Without intelligence, nothing can be created and it is absurd to assume that anything could emerge, jump out or erupt from nothingness.
The Quran says: Were they created of nothing, or were they themselves the creators? Or did they themselves create the heavens and the earth? Nay, they have no firm belief. At-Tur 52.35-.36).
Human reason is incapable of knowing the metaphysical world, as it cannot transcend the boundaries of space and time. Space and time are not objective realities and as they are only modes of apprehending phenomenal realities, they are essentially subjective and have no existence apart from the subject. Human reason has the ability to know only the temporal world and metaphysical is an attempt to know the ultimate realities with limitation. But, there is another level," intuition," that is unique in its experience and essentially different from other mode of cognition. It is not perception or thought and transcends to the heights of unknown. It negates logical, physical and scientific.
The further we advance in science, however, small, arguments become more eloquent and pronounced in favour of the existence of the Creator, Allah(SUT). I would like to give an example of this poor old lady who was weaving wool on her cartwheel and a Sufi passing by asked her, "Do you believe in God" "Yes I do", she said. But what is the proof and how you do you know that He exists? She replied that this wheel tells her everything; if I move it, it moves.
Islam is not just a religion; it is a way of life. The Arabic word, deen reflects a whole way of living, rather than simply a collection of rituals. It means following Islam in every aspect of life. Its distinct features are two: (1) harmonious equilibrium between temporal and the spiritual, permitting a full enjoyment of all that Allah has created; belief in one God without images and symbols. (2) All believers becoming brothers and sisters and equals without any distinction of class, race or tongue. The only superiority, which it recognizes, is a personal one, based on greater fear of God and greater piety. Islam seeks to establish a world community where every individual makes a constant effort for spreading the good and prevent evil. In Islam, we object to polytheism because it would entail the difficulty of division between several gods, if not a civil war. In our view, division of Divine power is impracticable and unsustainable and is an absurd man-made- pagan concept that was popular when human mind was least developed and suited only that epoch.
The best way to analyze the concept of God in any Religion is to analyze what the scriptures of that religion speak of Almighty God, and not by examining what its adherents do or believe because many of the followers themselves do not know what their religious scriptures state about Almighty God. The Glorious Quran says in Surah Al Imran, Ch. No. 3, V. No. 64: Say: "O people of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: Which is the first term? that we worship none but Allah (God); that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not from among ourselves Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back say: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's will)."
We are instructed in the Koran not to veer to extremes but adhere to ummatum wassatun (middle path) and refrain from excess of any kind and 99.99% of over 1.50 billon Muslims in the world earnestly strive to attain this middle ground, which is the most fertile ground in which to practice our 'Deen' as Allah intended for us: an Islam of peace, compassion, mercy, tolerance and justice for all. Magnanimity is very much admired by Muslims and it is considered a sin if we ill-treat or harm an enemy at our mercy; it is our religious and moral duty to protect him from all harms. In Islamic civilization and rules, Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians, Hindus and other people of various beliefs enjoyed religious freedom and equal rights. This reflected the teachings of the Quran, which is pluralistic scripture and affirmation of others traditions.
G
Guest
Guest
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.............. [wall] [wall] [wall] good night saladin bhai.Saladin A said:
gazoomartian
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
JIJA_JI said:
YES you are absolutley right. It does sound ridiculous. Glad you recognized it.
by the way brother. I have booked an appointment for you with a shrink on Tue, Feb 30th, 2010 at 2PM. Please be there on time, they are very busy. You need to bring your Indian passport, it would be needed
Please dont forget the appointment
Star Gazer
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Looks like this guy got PHD in Hindu Culture and religion from University of advance fundamentalism, extremism& terrorism, Tora bora, Afghanistan. By the way were you the classmate of Zaid Hamid.
[hilar] [hilar] [hilar] [hilar] [hilar][/quote]
Dear all I am sure that the purpose of this thread is not to make fun of any body or profess their knowledge or PhD in any subject.This is common knowledge about the beliefs and most of the people in Pakistan know about such rituals and teaching s of the hindus because many many have migrated from india in 1947 after having observed these things with their own eyes.
My question for the followers of hindu religion are.
1) What has been described in the thread as beliefs and rituals of the hindu faith are they not true?
2) If the beliefs are true then why can't you defend them with logic instead of getting all worked up about them.?
3) Nepali Pundit wrote that many years ago the society was divided and so and so ,right,but then india was not the only place where society was divided and now all over the world people have accepted the change and live much more differently then why is this not possible in india although you have a more stable history of democratic form of government.?
[hilar] [hilar] [hilar] [hilar] [hilar][/quote]
Dear all I am sure that the purpose of this thread is not to make fun of any body or profess their knowledge or PhD in any subject.This is common knowledge about the beliefs and most of the people in Pakistan know about such rituals and teaching s of the hindus because many many have migrated from india in 1947 after having observed these things with their own eyes.
My question for the followers of hindu religion are.
1) What has been described in the thread as beliefs and rituals of the hindu faith are they not true?
2) If the beliefs are true then why can't you defend them with logic instead of getting all worked up about them.?
3) Nepali Pundit wrote that many years ago the society was divided and so and so ,right,but then india was not the only place where society was divided and now all over the world people have accepted the change and live much more differently then why is this not possible in india although you have a more stable history of democratic form of government.?
sobia403 said:
There is no such religion as "Hindu" The Persians called the land located Sindh and east as "Hind". In Greek alphabet there is no letter "H" to represent the sound "Hi". Alexandra the great called it "Indus" that is the closest sound to "Hind" subsequently British called it "India" from Indus. The word Hindu has the same meaning as Indian regardless of religion.
A better name might be Vedic Religion its a vast religion with four scriptures over 10,000 sects and subsets with different interpretation, beliefs and rituals from absurd to reasonable. Its impossible to treat this as one package and defend what is not defend-able. Word Vidya is derivative from Veda meaning knowledge. Non of the rituals practiced today are prescribed in Vedas. One of the vedas states "akam Sat" there is only one truth.
What matters is the Belief of an individual. As long as one does not throw stones at me they can worship them as much as they want as long as they respect the rule of law I couldn't care less what he/she worship.
I do not belong to any religion.
Star Gazer
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Thankyou kabirfan.
But my questions remain unanswered,since you do not believe in any religion you could be a person with a nonbiased view about the issues. If you do not want to discuss it that too is fine.
But my questions remain unanswered,since you do not believe in any religion you could be a person with a nonbiased view about the issues. If you do not want to discuss it that too is fine.
sobia403 said:
Rituals described in the thread are true and can not be balanced using reason, logic and rationale at least from my perspective those who practice them will just get annoyed upon questioning. Dravidian (south Indians now) were conquered by Aryans they became (shudras) Inferiors. The word "Achuta" is the correct translations for untouchables. A really good place to visit in Pakistan is Mohanjodaro to find out factual knowledge as to how people lived in the period about 3200 years ago.
If some one was to say that part of the rituals in Islam are going to "Chillas" or "rotating " Tasvi" I know that is totally wrong, the only person in position to defend them is the one who practice them..
A wise man had said the unbelievers are the believers who fail to act on their believes. Even though I do not belong to any religion I have read the Holly Koran very carefully and found knowledge and wisdom. I studied Gita and found knowledge and wisdom. I found it from Mirza Galib, without being a Muslim or a Hindu, that is part of my beliefs and shall act on them no matter what, that's all I need to seek nothing more.One day I will share my favorite Verse from Koran that I contemplated for months just one verse
ConcernedPakistani
MPA (400+ posts)
[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AXRlBLXhtHU&feature=player_embedded[/video]
ConcernedPakistani
MPA (400+ posts)
Here is a compilation of Gandhi's quotes about the 'untouchables' collected and compiled by Vivek Nirala,
''HOW DANGEROUS GANDHIS THOUGHTS WAS & IS:
HERE ARE GANDHIS OWN WORDS:
Gandhi Quotes:
If the Shudras (low castes) leave their ancestral profession and take up others, ambition will rouse in them and their peace of mind will be spoiled. Even their family peace will be disturbed. (Hind Swaraj).
I believe in Varnashrama (caste system) which is the law of life.
The law of Varna (color and/or caste) is
nothing but the law of conservation of energy. Why should my son not be scavenger if I am one? (Harijan,3-6-1947).
He (Shudra, low caste) may not be called a Brahmin (uppermost caste), though he (Shudra) may have all
the qualities of a Brahmin in this birth. And it is a good thing for him (Shudra) not to arrogate a Varna (caste) to which he is not born. It is a sign of true humility. (Young India, 11-24-1927).
According to Hindu belief, he who practices a profession which does not belong to him by birth, does violence to himself and becomes a degraded being by not living up to the Varna (caste) of his birth. (Young India, 11-14-1927).
As years go by, the conviction is daily growing upon me that Varna (caste) is the law of mans being, and
therefore, caste is necessary for Christians and Muslims as it has been necessary for Hinduism, and has been its saving grace. (Speech at Trivandrum, (Collection of Speeches), Ramanath Suman (1932)).
I would resist with my life the separation of Untouchables from the caste Hindus. The problems of the Untouchable community are of comparatively little importance. (London Round Table Conference 1931)
I call myself a Snatana man, one who firmly believes in the caste system. (Dharma Manthan, p 4).
I believe in caste division determined by birth and the very root of caste division lies in birth. (Varna
Vyavastha, p 76-77).
The four castes and the four stages of life are things to be attained by birth alone. (Dharma Manthan, p 5).
Caste means the predetermination of a mans profession. Caste implies that a man must practice only the profession of his ancestors for his livelihood. (Varna Vyavstha, p 28, 56, 68).
Shudra only serves the higher castes as a matter of religious duty and who will never own any property. The gods will shower down flowers on him. (Varna Vyavastha, p 15).
I have noticed that the very basis of our thought have been severely shaken by Western civilization which is the creation of the Satan. (Dharma Manthan, p 65).
How is it possible that the Antyaja (outcastes) should have the right to enter all the existing temples? As long as the law of caste and karma has the chief place in the Hindu religion, to say that every Hindu can enter every temple is a thing that is not possible today. (Gandhi Sikshan, Vol. 11, p 132).
There are I am sorry to say, many Hindu temples in our midst in this country, which are no better than
brothels. The caste system cant be said to be bad because it does not allow inter-dining and inter-marriages in different castes. (Gandhi by Shiru, p129).
The caste system, in my opinion, has a scientific basis. Reason does not revolt against it. It has
disadvantages. Caste creates a social and moral restraint - I can find no reason for their abolition.
To abolish caste is to demolish Hinduism. There is nothing to fight against the Varnasharma (caste system). I dont believe the caste system to be an odious and vicious dogma. It has its limitations and defects, but there is nothing sinful about it. (Harijan, 1933).
Nations are tired of the worship of lifeless machines multiplied ad infinitum. We are destroying the matchless living machines viz., our own bodies by leaving them to rust and trying to substitute lifeless machinery for them. It is a law of God that the body must be fully worked and utilised. We dare not ignore it. The spinning wheel is the auspicious symbol of Sharir Yajna body labour. He who eats his food without offering this sacrifice steals it. By giving up this sacrifice we became traitors to the country, and banged the door in the
face of the Goddess of Fortune. (Gandhis presidential address at the Kathiawad Political Conference held on 8th January 1925).
The booklet is a severe condemnation of modern civilisation. It was written in 1908. My conviction is deeper today than ever. I feel that, if India would discard Modern civilisation she can only gain by doing so. (Mr. Gandhis booklet on Hind Swaraj (Indian Home Rule), 1921)
Gandhis quotes from his own mouth.
collected and compiled by Vivek Nirala.
''HOW DANGEROUS GANDHIS THOUGHTS WAS & IS:
HERE ARE GANDHIS OWN WORDS:
Gandhi Quotes:
If the Shudras (low castes) leave their ancestral profession and take up others, ambition will rouse in them and their peace of mind will be spoiled. Even their family peace will be disturbed. (Hind Swaraj).
I believe in Varnashrama (caste system) which is the law of life.
The law of Varna (color and/or caste) is
nothing but the law of conservation of energy. Why should my son not be scavenger if I am one? (Harijan,3-6-1947).
He (Shudra, low caste) may not be called a Brahmin (uppermost caste), though he (Shudra) may have all
the qualities of a Brahmin in this birth. And it is a good thing for him (Shudra) not to arrogate a Varna (caste) to which he is not born. It is a sign of true humility. (Young India, 11-24-1927).
According to Hindu belief, he who practices a profession which does not belong to him by birth, does violence to himself and becomes a degraded being by not living up to the Varna (caste) of his birth. (Young India, 11-14-1927).
As years go by, the conviction is daily growing upon me that Varna (caste) is the law of mans being, and
therefore, caste is necessary for Christians and Muslims as it has been necessary for Hinduism, and has been its saving grace. (Speech at Trivandrum, (Collection of Speeches), Ramanath Suman (1932)).
I would resist with my life the separation of Untouchables from the caste Hindus. The problems of the Untouchable community are of comparatively little importance. (London Round Table Conference 1931)
I call myself a Snatana man, one who firmly believes in the caste system. (Dharma Manthan, p 4).
I believe in caste division determined by birth and the very root of caste division lies in birth. (Varna
Vyavastha, p 76-77).
The four castes and the four stages of life are things to be attained by birth alone. (Dharma Manthan, p 5).
Caste means the predetermination of a mans profession. Caste implies that a man must practice only the profession of his ancestors for his livelihood. (Varna Vyavstha, p 28, 56, 68).
Shudra only serves the higher castes as a matter of religious duty and who will never own any property. The gods will shower down flowers on him. (Varna Vyavastha, p 15).
I have noticed that the very basis of our thought have been severely shaken by Western civilization which is the creation of the Satan. (Dharma Manthan, p 65).
How is it possible that the Antyaja (outcastes) should have the right to enter all the existing temples? As long as the law of caste and karma has the chief place in the Hindu religion, to say that every Hindu can enter every temple is a thing that is not possible today. (Gandhi Sikshan, Vol. 11, p 132).
There are I am sorry to say, many Hindu temples in our midst in this country, which are no better than
brothels. The caste system cant be said to be bad because it does not allow inter-dining and inter-marriages in different castes. (Gandhi by Shiru, p129).
The caste system, in my opinion, has a scientific basis. Reason does not revolt against it. It has
disadvantages. Caste creates a social and moral restraint - I can find no reason for their abolition.
To abolish caste is to demolish Hinduism. There is nothing to fight against the Varnasharma (caste system). I dont believe the caste system to be an odious and vicious dogma. It has its limitations and defects, but there is nothing sinful about it. (Harijan, 1933).
Nations are tired of the worship of lifeless machines multiplied ad infinitum. We are destroying the matchless living machines viz., our own bodies by leaving them to rust and trying to substitute lifeless machinery for them. It is a law of God that the body must be fully worked and utilised. We dare not ignore it. The spinning wheel is the auspicious symbol of Sharir Yajna body labour. He who eats his food without offering this sacrifice steals it. By giving up this sacrifice we became traitors to the country, and banged the door in the
face of the Goddess of Fortune. (Gandhis presidential address at the Kathiawad Political Conference held on 8th January 1925).
The booklet is a severe condemnation of modern civilisation. It was written in 1908. My conviction is deeper today than ever. I feel that, if India would discard Modern civilisation she can only gain by doing so. (Mr. Gandhis booklet on Hind Swaraj (Indian Home Rule), 1921)
Gandhis quotes from his own mouth.
collected and compiled by Vivek Nirala.
Bret Hawk
Senator (1k+ posts)
In retrospect, after reading the responses of some Indians here in defence of their faith known as Santana Dharma (The Eternal Law) aka Hinduism, I have decided to make some points obvious here and to draw a rough sketch on some of the differences of approach as adopted by Islam and Santana Dharma aka Hinduism which are as follows;
Un-anthropomorphic and indivisibility of Gods essence
There was a time when the one faction of Islam (Famously known as Mutazilates) who were the pure rationalists use to ascribe the anthropomorphic nature of Allah SWT and only later there were some other schools of Muslim theologians who categorically refuted that claim of those rationalists and unfortunately Hinduism do follow the same tradition till this day by first claiming the God to be without any form but again in His incarnations they have to devise that human form of divinity to mislead the laymen and its followers. Hinduism seems to also associate itself with the ideology of the divisibility of Gods essence in this universe in the forms of his avatars and therefore fail to explain the concept of corruption and wickedness of this world and whatever contains in it. The same folly was perpetrated by some sections of the Sufi mystics of Islam when they popularised and patronised the lethal concept of Pantheism. Whereas later Sufi and Islamic reformist Shaikh Al Sarhind aka Mujadid Alif Sani refuted and rooted out that grave misconception of the Sufis . Hinduism has still to shake the ill effects of this deviant ideology.
Absorption of many distorted and unfounded myths and concepts
After making a firm stance on its established principles of Monotheism, Belief in Prophethood, the agency of Angels, revelation and the resurrection Islam has never deviated from its principle stand and therefore have resisted against any ideology and concept which goes against its established principles directly or indirectly. One has to become baffled and astonished that Hinduism cant even make its principle stance on any of its established principles. For example if its adherents claim it to be a monotheistic faith then whats the point and logic of having multiple deities and demi-gods and goddesses and having different responsibilities? Boasting to respect the animated organisms of this world and disliking eating their flesh but what about the animated vegetation which modern science also proves to contain life and like any other organisms they (Plants and vegetations) also follow a complete cycle of birth and demise in their life? So why does Hinduism allows selective picking and choosing some living organisms as sacred and prohibits to consume them and why allowing other living objects to get consumed? Therefore one is truly justified to believe that Hinduism basically if not an organised set of believes system then this mean that it can absorb any ideology and myths in its domain to make the life of its adherents more easy and convenient. And surely by having this trait no doubt that their principle stands can also suffer their firm standings because of its assimilating capacity.
Too much emphasis on symbolism and the objects of creation than the creator
I personally believe that the most lethal and nefarious aspect of Hinduism or in this regard any of its polytheistic counterparts the shift and emphasis is more on the symbolic & allegorical representation of the creation of The Almighty rather than itself, which is the quintessential trait of Abrahimic faiths like Islam Judaism and Christianity. To me this characteristic of Hinduism and other polytheistic faiths tends to expel from the orbits of Gods guidance and tends to enter into the orbit of Satan and his conniving and thats why the followers and believers of Monotheistic faith tends to dislike and oppose to these tendencies of polytheistic faiths the most and Hinduism is one of the integral component of those tribe of faiths. Shiva Lingam (Shivas Penis), marks on foreheads, wearing different kinds of amulets, tracking the movement of celestial stars (Occult knowledge Astrology and palmistry), forming idols, believe in unending & senseless life cycles, animistic representations of different myths and associating different historical (unproved & baseless) events with them, commemorating the special intimate occasions of orgasms of their goddesses and revering the deities of multiple organs and incarnations is nothing but the pursuit of senseless and unbridled roaming of speculative minds of the doctors of Hinduism which has nothing to do with the actual and authenticated historical events of their claimed gods and goddesses. A rational mind like of a Muslim would always put his emphasis on his Creator the most and then try to reveal the mysteries and unravel the truths of this universe and all of which it contains including the objects and creations (Animated or unanimated). Just like one need to have the suns light to examine the objects in its surrounding in the same vein by discovering the Noor (Divine light) of the One and Only God Almighty through the agency of Prophethood the rational individual can debunk the mysteries and realities of the life and set his sight straight on to the events as they tends to unfold in the realms of time & space and on those domains which are free from those fetters. Whilst the believer of Hinduism bore the resemblance of that blind individual (Blind from the heart and mind) who first of will always wander in the darkness of his faith and no matter how educated and intelligent he would claimed to be he will always roam in the realms of speculative imagination and by chance if he happens to get expose to the sunlight even then it would be futile for his blind vision and blocked mentality to get the grasp of full reality and to be able to view things in their correct perspectives.
Imposing centrality on Karma (Deeds) instead of the Love of Almighty
When I view Hinduism in its entirety then I tend to believe that theres also too much emphasis has been given on the deeds of its followers instead of the love of God. I know some of the refuters might label the same charge on Islam too by plotting the scanner of Islam on deeds and hence the childish remarks of heaven and 72 virgins along with numerous supply of intoxicating wine. Which is of course not the whole truth in fact what Ive learned from the spiritual dimension of Islam (Sufism) is that only the Love of God and His Prophet PBUH can only lead someone to the eternal bliss and comfort otherwise the deeds alone would most probably be able to nominate him for a blissful abode in the hereafter. If in doubt then I would allow the detractors of Islam to follow the real and authentic accounts of its mystic sages in the past. Hinduism no doubt do put more onus on the self reformation and rectification from the illness of an individual and therefore make some hierarchies as well for those who act according to their just or bad nature and to some extent the liberation from that endless cycle of rebirths for some fortunate ones as well (In the state of Moksha) but rarely I can get the words for the extreme love of God The Almighty to get to the highest ranks of ones spirituality. Of course one should not also become totally neglectful from his good deeds and to trust on the sacrifices of a revered personality or to totally depends on its eternal good dispensation of the nature (Indirect references to Christianity and Buddhism respectively) to get to the point of salvation and indeed its desirable for individuals to show good conduct in this transient world for the smooth running of the life but too much reliance and boasting on them is also not helpful. Its obvious when someone love The Almighty with full devotion and belief then automatically his deeds and conducts also transform just like a thread when it is tweaked to remove its twists from the upper end then automatically the rest of the deformity and twist of the lower end also vanishes quickly. Here I also visualise Hinduism deficient in this regard and it surely can learn much better from the spiritual dimension of Islam as it (Islam) has brought forward some changes in its (Hinduisms) reformation period when Sattis cruel custom was abolished and the urging of restoring the egalitarian society on the common basis of self respect and dignity among the different sections of its community, though it has to be fully implemented till this day by the so called adherents of this refined faith of Santana Dharma.
Un-anthropomorphic and indivisibility of Gods essence
There was a time when the one faction of Islam (Famously known as Mutazilates) who were the pure rationalists use to ascribe the anthropomorphic nature of Allah SWT and only later there were some other schools of Muslim theologians who categorically refuted that claim of those rationalists and unfortunately Hinduism do follow the same tradition till this day by first claiming the God to be without any form but again in His incarnations they have to devise that human form of divinity to mislead the laymen and its followers. Hinduism seems to also associate itself with the ideology of the divisibility of Gods essence in this universe in the forms of his avatars and therefore fail to explain the concept of corruption and wickedness of this world and whatever contains in it. The same folly was perpetrated by some sections of the Sufi mystics of Islam when they popularised and patronised the lethal concept of Pantheism. Whereas later Sufi and Islamic reformist Shaikh Al Sarhind aka Mujadid Alif Sani refuted and rooted out that grave misconception of the Sufis . Hinduism has still to shake the ill effects of this deviant ideology.
Absorption of many distorted and unfounded myths and concepts
After making a firm stance on its established principles of Monotheism, Belief in Prophethood, the agency of Angels, revelation and the resurrection Islam has never deviated from its principle stand and therefore have resisted against any ideology and concept which goes against its established principles directly or indirectly. One has to become baffled and astonished that Hinduism cant even make its principle stance on any of its established principles. For example if its adherents claim it to be a monotheistic faith then whats the point and logic of having multiple deities and demi-gods and goddesses and having different responsibilities? Boasting to respect the animated organisms of this world and disliking eating their flesh but what about the animated vegetation which modern science also proves to contain life and like any other organisms they (Plants and vegetations) also follow a complete cycle of birth and demise in their life? So why does Hinduism allows selective picking and choosing some living organisms as sacred and prohibits to consume them and why allowing other living objects to get consumed? Therefore one is truly justified to believe that Hinduism basically if not an organised set of believes system then this mean that it can absorb any ideology and myths in its domain to make the life of its adherents more easy and convenient. And surely by having this trait no doubt that their principle stands can also suffer their firm standings because of its assimilating capacity.
Too much emphasis on symbolism and the objects of creation than the creator
I personally believe that the most lethal and nefarious aspect of Hinduism or in this regard any of its polytheistic counterparts the shift and emphasis is more on the symbolic & allegorical representation of the creation of The Almighty rather than itself, which is the quintessential trait of Abrahimic faiths like Islam Judaism and Christianity. To me this characteristic of Hinduism and other polytheistic faiths tends to expel from the orbits of Gods guidance and tends to enter into the orbit of Satan and his conniving and thats why the followers and believers of Monotheistic faith tends to dislike and oppose to these tendencies of polytheistic faiths the most and Hinduism is one of the integral component of those tribe of faiths. Shiva Lingam (Shivas Penis), marks on foreheads, wearing different kinds of amulets, tracking the movement of celestial stars (Occult knowledge Astrology and palmistry), forming idols, believe in unending & senseless life cycles, animistic representations of different myths and associating different historical (unproved & baseless) events with them, commemorating the special intimate occasions of orgasms of their goddesses and revering the deities of multiple organs and incarnations is nothing but the pursuit of senseless and unbridled roaming of speculative minds of the doctors of Hinduism which has nothing to do with the actual and authenticated historical events of their claimed gods and goddesses. A rational mind like of a Muslim would always put his emphasis on his Creator the most and then try to reveal the mysteries and unravel the truths of this universe and all of which it contains including the objects and creations (Animated or unanimated). Just like one need to have the suns light to examine the objects in its surrounding in the same vein by discovering the Noor (Divine light) of the One and Only God Almighty through the agency of Prophethood the rational individual can debunk the mysteries and realities of the life and set his sight straight on to the events as they tends to unfold in the realms of time & space and on those domains which are free from those fetters. Whilst the believer of Hinduism bore the resemblance of that blind individual (Blind from the heart and mind) who first of will always wander in the darkness of his faith and no matter how educated and intelligent he would claimed to be he will always roam in the realms of speculative imagination and by chance if he happens to get expose to the sunlight even then it would be futile for his blind vision and blocked mentality to get the grasp of full reality and to be able to view things in their correct perspectives.
Imposing centrality on Karma (Deeds) instead of the Love of Almighty
When I view Hinduism in its entirety then I tend to believe that theres also too much emphasis has been given on the deeds of its followers instead of the love of God. I know some of the refuters might label the same charge on Islam too by plotting the scanner of Islam on deeds and hence the childish remarks of heaven and 72 virgins along with numerous supply of intoxicating wine. Which is of course not the whole truth in fact what Ive learned from the spiritual dimension of Islam (Sufism) is that only the Love of God and His Prophet PBUH can only lead someone to the eternal bliss and comfort otherwise the deeds alone would most probably be able to nominate him for a blissful abode in the hereafter. If in doubt then I would allow the detractors of Islam to follow the real and authentic accounts of its mystic sages in the past. Hinduism no doubt do put more onus on the self reformation and rectification from the illness of an individual and therefore make some hierarchies as well for those who act according to their just or bad nature and to some extent the liberation from that endless cycle of rebirths for some fortunate ones as well (In the state of Moksha) but rarely I can get the words for the extreme love of God The Almighty to get to the highest ranks of ones spirituality. Of course one should not also become totally neglectful from his good deeds and to trust on the sacrifices of a revered personality or to totally depends on its eternal good dispensation of the nature (Indirect references to Christianity and Buddhism respectively) to get to the point of salvation and indeed its desirable for individuals to show good conduct in this transient world for the smooth running of the life but too much reliance and boasting on them is also not helpful. Its obvious when someone love The Almighty with full devotion and belief then automatically his deeds and conducts also transform just like a thread when it is tweaked to remove its twists from the upper end then automatically the rest of the deformity and twist of the lower end also vanishes quickly. Here I also visualise Hinduism deficient in this regard and it surely can learn much better from the spiritual dimension of Islam as it (Islam) has brought forward some changes in its (Hinduisms) reformation period when Sattis cruel custom was abolished and the urging of restoring the egalitarian society on the common basis of self respect and dignity among the different sections of its community, though it has to be fully implemented till this day by the so called adherents of this refined faith of Santana Dharma.
Star Gazer
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
1) Those people who blow themselves up and say they do it for Islam are committing a crime and a sin for they have no right to do so. And we all condemn them,but you seem to miss this point consisitently!
2) As for who will go to heaven or hell ,we are no judges of that and only God Almighty has the prerogative to decide.
I will be more than happy to try to answer any questions that you might ask
2) As for who will go to heaven or hell ,we are no judges of that and only God Almighty has the prerogative to decide.
I will be more than happy to try to answer any questions that you might ask
TO ALL MUSLIMS, an Advice from Quran:
Revile not those unto whom they pray beside Allah lest they wrongfully revile
Allah through ignorance. Thus unto every nation have We made their deed seem fair.
Then unto their Lord is their return, and He will tell them what they used to do
http://www.quraneasyurdu.net/ps07/ch07y.html#108
Revile not those unto whom they pray beside Allah lest they wrongfully revile
Allah through ignorance. Thus unto every nation have We made their deed seem fair.
Then unto their Lord is their return, and He will tell them what they used to do
http://www.quraneasyurdu.net/ps07/ch07y.html#108
Red_Indian
Citizen
RESPECTED SOBIA
I mean no disrespect to you. You have made your point my argument is with Bret Hawk for calling my religion absurd . We should all respect each others faith and try to understand each other better.
I mean no disrespect to you. You have made your point my argument is with Bret Hawk for calling my religion absurd . We should all respect each others faith and try to understand each other better.
Red_Indian
Citizen
THANKS ADMIN
Bret Hawk Calls my religion absurd and he is still there and my response to him deleted even though I used no foul language and relied on facts using his own test formula. May I know why? PLEASE be fair you should at least remove the absurd part form his post or let me respond.
Bret Hawk Calls my religion absurd and he is still there and my response to him deleted even though I used no foul language and relied on facts using his own test formula. May I know why? PLEASE be fair you should at least remove the absurd part form his post or let me respond.
- Status
