Agreed,
pass on some powers from federal to Provincial and Provincial to Administrative units. This would not provoke so called "Provincial nationalists".
Punjab division is essential for future of pakistan
- Thread starter Mehran Khan Mazari
- Start date
Agreed,
pass on some powers from federal to Provincial and Provincial to Administrative units. This would not provoke so called "Provincial nationalists".
There would be advantages as well as disadvantages. But definitely, the smaller the province or city will de, easier will it be to handle and manage. I read somewhere that our religion also discusses that "k agar shehr aik had se zyada baday honay lagain to nay shehr abaad kiya kero". (I would be thankful if someone has knowledge of this Hadith and can share the reference.)
But, the problem of heavy expenses of ministries and feudal dominancies is also not ignorable. And these Lagharies, Pagars, Lagharis, Khars, Qureshis, Ghellanis are not the only Feudal as another form of Feudal is these business Tycoons and industrialists like Mansha group, Saigol group, suger mill owners, private power plant owners and many many more who fund most of the politicians in elections and then get huge benefits in form of contracts. If we can have some solution to them, then we can think of province divisions at some later stage.
But, the problem of heavy expenses of ministries and feudal dominancies is also not ignorable. And these Lagharies, Pagars, Lagharis, Khars, Qureshis, Ghellanis are not the only Feudal as another form of Feudal is these business Tycoons and industrialists like Mansha group, Saigol group, suger mill owners, private power plant owners and many many more who fund most of the politicians in elections and then get huge benefits in form of contracts. If we can have some solution to them, then we can think of province divisions at some later stage.
This is not the solution of make further division of provinces. The problem of better governance requires "sincerity" in all and at all levels. That is the product which is in dearth in everywhere. Then of course there will be heavy expenditure of Ministeries/Divisions plus and plus bureaucracy. Altaf hussain should be content with his British citizenship and leave Pakistan to Pakistanis. Since his fellas are now facing stiff competition in getting jobs from other provinces, therefore he is suggesting the division of province to absorb his fellas. Nothing else. As long as in whole of punjab specially and in whole of Pakistan generally, there are feudals, Choudaries, Sardars, Veedaras, Saheens etc etc and continue the same culture, even 100 fragmentation will not give the desired result, except that Altaf Bhai may absorb some of his "cheelas" into new provinces.
Gorgh
Citizen
Internal Re-demarcation Of Pakistan into smaller federating units. In today,s tangible world every ethenic entity needs recognition and indentification sometimes seperation of its own race, which is a natural phenomina either on the basis of language, culture, tradition, and religion. example of Bosnia & Albania curved out of Yogoslavia, East timor from Indonesia and Palestine still under process are in front of us. However, difference of religion, culture and seperation are not the case in Pakistan, it is the recognition, identification and opportunties at national lvl to different ethenic faction /entity is concerned in Pakistan. We are the amalgamation of different ethenic factions /entity joint together under the ldrship of our great ldr Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah to form /establish a seperate country to be recognized and identified as Pakistani Muslims & live independently with honour & pride therefore knitting in the fabric of Pakistani citizenship. Each entity/faction gave sacrifice for Pakistan and are still paying sacrifice for the defence of our motherland.
I am afraid there are so many Pakistani who don't even know how many entity/faction are there in Pakistan, who are they and in which province they live in except for themselves. It is highly unfortunate that we dont know our own fellow countrymen. Therefore, it is of paramount importance for better and properous Pakistan to be re-demarcated into smaller federating units for the following reasons:
1. Better administration & developement.
2. Recognition & identification of different entities/factions to afford opportunities to them to play their parts at national & intl lvl for better Pakistan.
3. Speedy progress & developement of Pakistan.
4. reduce & minimize the hold of perminant influencials / chaudries, wadaras, maliks, sardars,.
5. Justifiable distribution of budget to different federating units.
6. Prevailence of justice as high courts will be setup to provide speedy justice.
7. Equal & better educational opportunties to all.
8. Health care will be easy & reachable to every one.
9. Bwtter management and performance of responsibilities by the authorities as they will be within reach of the ppl & ppl know them.
10. Solidarity, integrity of Pakistan will be invincable & strong.
11. Maintaince & prevailence of equality, equity, brotherhood and Justice.
If today we are suffering, perhaps it is nothing but recognition & identifaction and opportunites to different entity /faction to play their parts as patiotic & loyal Pakistani's which is some way or the other certainly over sighted by selfish & self interested ppl in our society.
I am afraid there are so many Pakistani who don't even know how many entity/faction are there in Pakistan, who are they and in which province they live in except for themselves. It is highly unfortunate that we dont know our own fellow countrymen. Therefore, it is of paramount importance for better and properous Pakistan to be re-demarcated into smaller federating units for the following reasons:
1. Better administration & developement.
2. Recognition & identification of different entities/factions to afford opportunities to them to play their parts at national & intl lvl for better Pakistan.
3. Speedy progress & developement of Pakistan.
4. reduce & minimize the hold of perminant influencials / chaudries, wadaras, maliks, sardars,.
5. Justifiable distribution of budget to different federating units.
6. Prevailence of justice as high courts will be setup to provide speedy justice.
7. Equal & better educational opportunties to all.
8. Health care will be easy & reachable to every one.
9. Bwtter management and performance of responsibilities by the authorities as they will be within reach of the ppl & ppl know them.
10. Solidarity, integrity of Pakistan will be invincable & strong.
11. Maintaince & prevailence of equality, equity, brotherhood and Justice.
If today we are suffering, perhaps it is nothing but recognition & identifaction and opportunites to different entity /faction to play their parts as patiotic & loyal Pakistani's which is some way or the other certainly over sighted by selfish & self interested ppl in our society.
UKspec786
Councller (250+ posts)
This best of our society is unable to come forward, due to this political system (only criminals and gangsters succeed). This system has to change. And i can not see it changing through the ballot box.
2 examples:
Tahir Ul Qadri, got to national assembly, but nothing got debated in the assembly. His views where not heard. Decisions where made outside the assembly. He got frustrated and resigned.
Imran Khan, again a similar case. On their own they cannot be affective in this assembly.
We need a system similar to Iran, where a president is elected and he sets up his own team to run the country. Or of course there is allways the KHILAFAH.
Although it is need , it takes year and years of planning and negociations ..how to divide the boundaries , how to divide the units , how to divide the water , how to divide the resouces.... I think if we go that route we will most like kill each other because our leaderships lacks maturity and people are misled into hatred easily by our so called leaders in the names of ethinicity. I believe it should be done and punjab should set an example for others to follow but i think the time is definately not right.
Religion MUST and etthinicity MUST NOT have anything to do with politics.
By the way the current ethnic nationalist parties are actually lingo-based parties as almost no linguistic group in Pakistan is significantly of one ethnicity and more than one linguistic group may overlap within the folds of the same ethnicity with another.For example approximately 40% Sindhis are Baloch ethnic-wise but Sindhi mother tongue-wise.However,Sindhi nationalists target the linguistic group not ethnic group as targeting what they may call the 'pure' Sindhi ethnic group shall forever weaken their political base.Similarly,the recent Hazara movement is a lingo-based movement not ethnic as is largely incorrectly stated a they are largely Pukhtun and the Seraiki nationalist movement targets Seraiki speakers...who are an amalgamation of SEVERAL ethnicities.It irritates me when people with little knowledge of contemporary terminology use incorrect words when they mean,or are supposed to mean, something else.
We know them...we know them as fellow Pakistanis...ethinicity is not really supposed to be such a big issue in a religious-based state and I do not wish for Pakistan to go the way of Belgium.My ethinicity is NOT my nation.Even Pakistan is not my nation.ISLAM IS.
I agree with most of your 11 points but they are the foundation of a welfare state and a true Islamic state and have little to do with your ethnic-issue centric argument.
Having said that,I would like to add that the present mind-set prevalent in our society (generalization on majority basis) and government that is allergic to the indigenous languages spoken within Pakistan is terrible.I do NOT support Urdu having been forced upon us like it was.It was useless...it did not unite Pakistanis like it was supposed to(provided a political basis to ethnic nationalist opportunists) and never became the de facto language of authority in Pakistan and has always been over-shadowed by English...which is the language that dominates the courts and other institutions of government TO THIS DAY...actually there exist better,albeit ignored,alternatives here...
I really don't believe in provincial autonomy or a federal system.Pakistanis have been successfully brainwashed by the media and all this political jargon being floated around to have a one track mind...I do not care about the 18th amendment or which institution has more power...what I DO care about is what kind of people are running the country and I am the kind of person who will support a benevolent dictator over a 'democratically elected' theif...
However,what I do want is the creation of a true Islamic state with an egalitarian society and mind-set...an Islamic state in the REAL sense and without the beard and Burka state of mind that is found in other "Islamic" states like Saudi Arabia...the state shoul have an Islamic socio-economic system (which I see is found in NO country "Islamic" or otherwise) and should be inhabited by a knowledgeable and humanitarian society...this may seem highly improbable but if God ordained this system for us it is indeed achievable...
But such a system has no place for ethno centric politics and parties and such like entities promoting ethno-centric policies and ideals must be stamped out of the country....
This is NOT a natural phenomenon...or example the destruction of Yugoslavia was engineered using propaganda and the Yugoslav government did not do enough to prevent its spread...
This is a long discussion...
By the way the current ethnic nationalist parties are actually lingo-based parties as almost no linguistic group in Pakistan is significantly of one ethnicity and more than one linguistic group may overlap within the folds of the same ethnicity with another.For example approximately 40% Sindhis are Baloch ethnic-wise but Sindhi mother tongue-wise.However,Sindhi nationalists target the linguistic group not ethnic group as targeting what they may call the 'pure' Sindhi ethnic group shall forever weaken their political base.Similarly,the recent Hazara movement is a lingo-based movement not ethnic as is largely incorrectly stated a they are largely Pukhtun and the Seraiki nationalist movement targets Seraiki speakers...who are an amalgamation of SEVERAL ethnicities.It irritates me when people with little knowledge of contemporary terminology use incorrect words when they mean,or are supposed to mean, something else.
We know them...we know them as fellow Pakistanis...ethinicity is not really supposed to be such a big issue in a religious-based state and I do not wish for Pakistan to go the way of Belgium.My ethinicity is NOT my nation.Even Pakistan is not my nation.ISLAM IS.
I agree with most of your 11 points but they are the foundation of a welfare state and a true Islamic state and have little to do with your ethnic-issue centric argument.
Having said that,I would like to add that the present mind-set prevalent in our society (generalization on majority basis) and government that is allergic to the indigenous languages spoken within Pakistan is terrible.I do NOT support Urdu having been forced upon us like it was.It was useless...it did not unite Pakistanis like it was supposed to(provided a political basis to ethnic nationalist opportunists) and never became the de facto language of authority in Pakistan and has always been over-shadowed by English...which is the language that dominates the courts and other institutions of government TO THIS DAY...actually there exist better,albeit ignored,alternatives here...
I really don't believe in provincial autonomy or a federal system.Pakistanis have been successfully brainwashed by the media and all this political jargon being floated around to have a one track mind...I do not care about the 18th amendment or which institution has more power...what I DO care about is what kind of people are running the country and I am the kind of person who will support a benevolent dictator over a 'democratically elected' theif...
However,what I do want is the creation of a true Islamic state with an egalitarian society and mind-set...an Islamic state in the REAL sense and without the beard and Burka state of mind that is found in other "Islamic" states like Saudi Arabia...the state shoul have an Islamic socio-economic system (which I see is found in NO country "Islamic" or otherwise) and should be inhabited by a knowledgeable and humanitarian society...this may seem highly improbable but if God ordained this system for us it is indeed achievable...
But such a system has no place for ethno centric politics and parties and such like entities promoting ethno-centric policies and ideals must be stamped out of the country....
This is NOT a natural phenomenon...or example the destruction of Yugoslavia was engineered using propaganda and the Yugoslav government did not do enough to prevent its spread...
This is a long discussion...
YAHYA87
Senator (1k+ posts)
After reading suggestion I came across with one suggestion as well....
We do have a mechanism of distribution of resources(NFC AWARDS) to the provinces in Pakistan but the problem is that One province outnumbered other and vice versa so to solve that problem why dont we break down all the provinces and CREATE 10 PROVINCES by breaking down all four provinces and FATA area as well and CREATE 10 PROVINCES EQUALLY BASED ON NFC AWARD CRITERIA so that distribution of resources could BE SAME THROUGH OUT Pakistan....
We do have a mechanism of distribution of resources(NFC AWARDS) to the provinces in Pakistan but the problem is that One province outnumbered other and vice versa so to solve that problem why dont we break down all the provinces and CREATE 10 PROVINCES by breaking down all four provinces and FATA area as well and CREATE 10 PROVINCES EQUALLY BASED ON NFC AWARD CRITERIA so that distribution of resources could BE SAME THROUGH OUT Pakistan....
But the NFC Award is always supposed to be changing as internal scenarios of provinces ,and the country at large,change.Factors that affect how much a province should get from the NFC may change over time (such as poverty,population etc.).Do you mean we change boundaries every decade or so(perhaps sooner due to internal migration)?
Night_Hawk
Siasat.pk - Blogger
Dividing provinces in to smaller units is not the solution. The feudal lords will be king makers.
The burden of MINISTERS WILL BE tremendous.
Provincial territorial management will be a huge financial nightmare.
The burden of MINISTERS WILL BE tremendous.
Provincial territorial management will be a huge financial nightmare.
Rana Tahir Mahmood
Senator (1k+ posts)
MQM type approach. Is it possible to make a province comprising of two distant apart like regions? we have not learnt the lesson from our mistakes what we experienced in the shape of East and West Pakistan and we could not keep them together.
