Pakistan and India in the eye of William Dalrymple

rahat

Senator (1k+ posts)
Pakistan is a gift from ALLAH to all the Muslim. ALLAH created Pakistan to give chance to the Muslims to stay away from Hindus Disbelievers.

India is a picture of criminals, terror, and exploitation by the top Hindus sect to the rest. Take example of 200 million Diliat and 170 millions of Muslims, in which miserable conditions they are there. Hundreds of thousands of Muslims were killed in Gujarat by these Hindus, thousands of Sikhs killed in 1984 and now they are burning Christens there. What a shameful place in the world India.
They are still killings and have killed hundreds of thousands Kashmir Muslims, who are demanding their right in accordance with the UN resolution.

There is no comparison between the morality, peace and harmony in Pakistan with India.
 

Whats Up Doc

Councller (250+ posts)
rahat said:
Pakistan is a gift from ALLAH to all the Muslim. ALLAH created Pakistan to give chance to the Muslims to stay away from Hindus Disbelievers.

India is a picture of criminals, terror, and exploitation by the top Hindus sect to the rest. Take example of 200 million Diliat and 170 millions of Muslims, in which miserable conditions they are there. Hundreds of thousands of Muslims were killed in Gujarat by these Hindus, thousands of Sikhs killed in 1984 and now they are burning Christens there. What a shameful place in the world India.
They are still killings and have killed hundreds of thousands Kashmir Muslims, who are demanding their right in accordance with the UN resolution.

There is no comparison between the morality, peace and harmony in Pakistan with India.

If Pakistan is a gift from almighty you sure haven't treated it as such.
 

rahat

Senator (1k+ posts)
May be the peoples on helm of affairs didn't treated like what it should be. But still it is a better place then conservative, extremist India. We are thankful to ALLAH for his mercy and Inshaalah; it will be leader in the world soon.
 

Whats Up Doc

Councller (250+ posts)
rahat said:
May be the peoples on helm of affairs didn't treated like what it should be. But still it is a better place then conservative, extremist India. We are thankful to ALLAH for his mercy and Inshaalah; it will be leader in the world soon.

In this case O Almighty I have never asked you for anything before please take me out of your gift list if I am in it. Thank you.
 

nabeel117

Councller (250+ posts)
dil-se-desi said:
INDIA:
SIZE OF ECONOMY.......no comparison(INDIA is world's 12th largest in size,4th in Purchasing Power Parity)

INDIAN MULTINATIONAL corporations....TATA,reliance,infosys,mahindra.......countless

indian space program...world's top 5

Indian rail network,high speed trains,metro trains and (bullet trains coming up)

world class engineering and management schools

world class heath care facilities and hospitals.(people from USA/EUROPE come for treatment)

domestic car /2 wheeler manufacturer.... have global presence.

GLOBAL leader in software and services.

pharmaceutical industry (global)

world's second biggest telecom market (consumer and companies)

world's largest entertainment industry.

indian private banks (global)

world's top favorite tourist destination.

HUGE public sector companies operating at global level.

big domestic private airlines operating international,

more than 500 civilian airports

emerging market for expensive cars (above 1 crore)

world's largest pool of skilled and educated manpower(unskilled labor too)

Billionaires(50 in world's top 1000 are indian as per FORBES) and billion$$ companies growing fast......

Although India occupies only 2.4% of the world's land area, it supports over 15% of the world's population. Only China has a larger population. India's median age is 25, one of the youngest among large economies. About 70% live in more than 550,000 villages, and the remainder (30%) in more than 200 towns and cities.

source: http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3454.htm

Meaning less to mention that most of the above mentioned + are mainly a product of being one of the biggest pool of potential customer/consumers, and I can add 1000 ...... ;)

30% of India's population is mainly enjoying these + ...... and you can calculate 70% of your population (a really big no, still unaware of what you projected here, so 1st inform the 70%)



Health: Infant mortality rate--30.15/1,000. Life expectancy--70 years (2009 est.).
Work force (est.): 450 million. Agriculture--60%; industry and commerce--12%; services and government--28%.

source:http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/3454.htm

Industry and commerce 12%

Any +ve from your 60% (Agriculture sector)
Before starting ur counting (agricultural exports) 1st do check the report on mal-nourishment report about India.....
 

rahat

Senator (1k+ posts)
You can leave Pakistan, why asking ALLAH. The earth of ALLAH is so big you can go anywhere to hide yourself from ALLAH's gift Pakistan.

Pakistan is the reflection of order of ALLAH given in QURAN Surey Al-Nisa, Ayut 97-98:

Verily! As for those whom the Angels have taken (in death) while they are wronging themselves (as they stayed among the disbelievers even though emigration was obligatory to them), they (angels) asked them, "In what condition were you?". They replied, "We were weak and oppressed on earth". The Angels asked, "Was not the earth of Allah spacious enough for you to migrate therein?" Such men will find their abode in Hell - what an evil destination! Except the weak ones among men, women and children who were unable to devise a plan, nor are they able to direct their way
 

butshikan

Councller (250+ posts)
dil-se-desi said:
indian space program...world's top 5

world class engineering and management schools

No need to mention these atleast as every one salute the advancements in these fields [clap]

[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb0ANbNN9HM[/video]

[hilar]
 

rahat

Senator (1k+ posts)
The so-called story of development of India and human living conditions can be visulized in the following official report:

Subject: plight of muslims in india (sachar committee report)
chupooey 11/30/2006 12:57:38 PM
Data collected by Prime Minister?s High Level Committee, headed by Justice (retd) Rajinder Sachar on their social, economic and education:

In rural areas: 94.9% of Muslims living below poverty line fail to receive free food grain.

Only 3.2% of Muslims get subsidized loans,

Only 2.1% of Muslim farmers have tractors, while just 1% own hand pumps.

54.6% of Muslims in villages and 60% in urban areas have never been to schools. In rural areas, only 0.8% of Muslims are graduates, while in urban areas despite 40% of the Muslims receiving modern education only 3.1% are graduates. Only 1.2% of Muslims are post-graduates in urban areas.

While West Bengal has 25% Muslim population, only 4.2% are employed in state services. In Assam , with a 40% Muslim population, only 11.2% are in government employment. Kerala has 20% Muslims, but only 10.4% of government employees are Muslim.

A better picture is projected by data collected in Karnataka, where against Muslim population of 12.2%, 8.5% are employed in government services. While in Gujarat, of the 9.1% Muslim population, 5.4% are in state jobs , in Tamil Nadu, against a 5.6% Muslim population, 3.2% are employed in government.

Though West Bengal is known as a political bastion of the left bloc, the ones who have always spoken strongly against parties entertaining communal bias, the state has zero% Muslims in state PSUs. While Kerala has 9.5% in state PSUs, Maharashtra has only 1.9%.

Though the Sachar committee was not able to secure data regarding the presence of Muslims in the armed forces, it is fairly well-known that their percentage here is not more than three.
Muslims form only 10.6% of the population in Maharashtra , but 32.4% of the prison inmates here are Muslims. In New Delhi , 27.9 % of inmates are Muslims, though they form only 11.7% of the population here. While in Gujarat , Muslims form 25.1% of the ones imprisoned, they form 9.1% of the population. In Karnataka,
Muslims form 12.23% of populace and 17.5% of those imprisoned.

Interestingly, the majority of the Muslim inmates have not been imprisoned for ?terrorism.? This raises the question whether most of them are behind bars only for petty crimes or because of the bias displayed against them by Indian police forces. Of the total inmates serving sentences up to one year, in Maharashtra , Muslims constitute 40.6% of their population. The high percentage of Muslims presence in jails is also said to be an indicator of their being victims of discrimination and suspicion, particularly as their prevails a tendency in India to blame largely Muslim groups for terror attacks taking place here. The report also holds poverty among Muslims as being responsible for turning them towards crime. Poverty and prejudice entertained against them is said to have further contributed to their presence in jails.

Against the backdrop of dismal facts having surfaced regarding social, economic and educational status of Indian Muslims, the Sachar panel has made some recommendations in their favor.
Stating that the future of Muslims does not rest in madrasa education, the Sachar panel recommends more English and Urdu medium government schools in Muslim-dominated areas.

The Sachar panel also recommends allocation of 15% of all government funds to Muslims under all central schemes. It favors greater representation for Muslims in sectors such as health and teaching and also sensitization of government employments towards Muslims? requirements.
The Sachar panel has made a strong argument for all Indian Muslims, except the creamy layer.

ith the Sachar report having already served as an eye-opener to the harsh reality about the status of Muslims in Indian society, the question is whether in fact this will propel the government to take some constructive steps towards improving their conditions or would its relevance be confined to noise made in media circles and a little bit of political rhetoric.
 

nabeel117

Councller (250+ posts)
Here we lag behind my friend ...atleast their leadership is aware of the issue and showing some interest in it .......and our leadership (actually we have no real leader currently)

This report is presented by a team assigned by Indian gov.


rahat said:
The so-called story of development of India and human living conditions can be visulized in the following official report:

Subject: plight of muslims in india (sachar committee report)
chupooey 11/30/2006 12:57:38 PM
Data collected by Prime Minister?s High Level Committee, headed by Justice (retd) Rajinder Sachar on their social, economic and education:
 

rahat

Senator (1k+ posts)
Whatever the Hindues in power shows to the world is eyewash things. The are so extremists in nature that can't tolerate anyone even their own reliogn lower cast peoples. It is based on their vision of promoting an upper hindues classes and to make slaves the all others. It is totally against the orders of ALLAH given in Quran. As far our corrupt leadership is concerns, it is our own duty to get rid os it and to establish a just and fair system as ordered by ALLAH.
If, we all do not comply to ALLAH's orders and struggle with all means to fulfill our duty then ALLAH termed these peoples as "MUNAFIQEEN" in Surey Al-Baqar.
So, we all should look into the direction given by Quran and comply our duty instead of labelling responsibility to corrupt leadersonly.
 

Whats Up Doc

Councller (250+ posts)
rahat said:
Whatever the Hindues in power shows to the world is eyewash things. The are so extremists in nature that can't tolerate anyone even their own reliogn lower cast peoples. It is based on their vision of promoting an upper hindues classes and to make slaves the all others. It is totally against the orders of ALLAH given in Quran. As far our corrupt leadership is concerns, it is our own duty to get rid os it and to establish a just and fair system as ordered by ALLAH.
If, we all do not comply to ALLAH's orders and struggle with all means to fulfill our duty then ALLAH termed these peoples as "MUNAFIQEEN" in Surey Al-Baqar.
So, we all should look into the direction given by Quran and comply our duty instead of labelling responsibility to corrupt leadersonly.

They are not in the list of the countries who,s citizens must be patted down at the airports.Just because you are blind does not mean the whole world is blind and Hindus can outsmart the whole world except for you.
 

Whats Up Doc

Councller (250+ posts)
rahat said:
The so-called story of development of India and human living conditions can be visulized in the following official report:

Subject: plight of muslims in india (sachar committee report)
chupooey 11/30/2006 12:57:38 PM
Data collected by Prime Minister?s High Level Committee, headed by Justice (retd) Rajinder Sachar on their social, economic and education:

In rural areas: 94.9% of Muslims living below poverty line fail to receive free food grain.

Only 3.2% of Muslims get subsidized loans,

Only 2.1% of Muslim farmers have tractors, while just 1% own hand pumps.

54.6% of Muslims in villages and 60% in urban areas have never been to schools. In rural areas, only 0.8% of Muslims are graduates, while in urban areas despite 40% of the Muslims receiving modern education only 3.1% are graduates. Only 1.2% of Muslims are post-graduates in urban areas.

While West Bengal has 25% Muslim population, only 4.2% are employed in state services. In Assam , with a 40% Muslim population, only 11.2% are in government employment. Kerala has 20% Muslims, but only 10.4% of government employees are Muslim.

A better picture is projected by data collected in Karnataka, where against Muslim population of 12.2%, 8.5% are employed in government services. While in Gujarat, of the 9.1% Muslim population, 5.4% are in state jobs , in Tamil Nadu, against a 5.6% Muslim population, 3.2% are employed in government.

Though West Bengal is known as a political bastion of the left bloc, the ones who have always spoken strongly against parties entertaining communal bias, the state has zero% Muslims in state PSUs. While Kerala has 9.5% in state PSUs, Maharashtra has only 1.9%.

Though the Sachar committee was not able to secure data regarding the presence of Muslims in the armed forces, it is fairly well-known that their percentage here is not more than three.
Muslims form only 10.6% of the population in Maharashtra , but 32.4% of the prison inmates here are Muslims. In New Delhi , 27.9 % of inmates are Muslims, though they form only 11.7% of the population here. While in Gujarat , Muslims form 25.1% of the ones imprisoned, they form 9.1% of the population. In Karnataka,
Muslims form 12.23% of populace and 17.5% of those imprisoned.
Check out stats from other countries who keep stats based on religion/nationality start off with UK http://www.statistics.gov.uk/hub/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Then France, Netherlands and perhaps Germany. Hindus are not in power there then come back you will find similar type of stats.
 

Whats Up Doc

Councller (250+ posts)
gazoomartian said:
butshikan said:
Whats Up Doc said:
Rear view mirror is a must for those with a narrow vision only thats why we don't have one
and "those" here means the human race ;)

Oh I think I saw a "WABIT" here........ so long ears and eyes on each side no wonder a rear view not required [hilar]

Finally an Indian admitted that he doesnt have a vision [clap]

I am shocked Gazoo you responded to me I almost had a heart attack. I think you are still effected by Dr. Farruk Saleem article. Thats why you are confusing DEENO with Fred.I guess you could not resist the carrot.
 

rahat

Senator (1k+ posts)
Don't compare the extremist hindes attitude toward humanity with the immigrant to other countries and their conditions.

The peoples now cast hindues and muslims are the sons o soils and deserve the same equal rights and living conditions. The peoples who migrated to UK or other countires by legal / illegal migration is by choice and they have to struggle to keep them up to that level. Most of the immigrates still enjoy the same legal and state rights. It is only India where the sons of soils I.E. Diliates and Muslims are treated unhumanily as animels. On the other hand the top Hindues sect enjoy the state resources and most richest persons of the world also belongs to that country.
What a contridictions in the mentality of Indian ruling elite.
 

Whats Up Doc

Councller (250+ posts)
rahat said:
Don't compare the extremist hindes attitude toward humanity with the immigrant to other countries and their conditions.

The peoples now cast hindues and muslims are the sons o soils and deserve the same equal rights and living conditions. The peoples who migrated to UK or other countires by legal / illegal migration is by choice and they have to struggle to keep them up to that level. Most of the immigrates still enjoy the same legal and state rights. It is only India where the sons of soils I.E. Diliates and Muslims are treated unhumanily as animels. On the other hand the top Hindues sect enjoy the state resources and most richest persons of the world also belongs to that country.
What a contridictions in the mentality of Indian ruling elite.

Yes they are children of the same soil, even if they are not, they still should be treated with equality as human beings. The constitution of India treats all with equality. There are many Individuals, some in position of power, who ignore constitution. India's judiciary is very fair. Muslims have a fair representation in some aspects of public sectors but it needs improvement no doubt.

Muslims and non Muslims migrated to other countries in the same time frame. Hindus have nothing to do with Somalia, Pakistan, China and several other countries. How do you explain the plight and disparity of Muslims in those countries.
 

rahat

Senator (1k+ posts)
Pakistan is still better place not only for muslims but the maniorities such as Hindues, Christian etc, despite the rough treatment with Muslims in India and other parts.
Remember, the role of pakistan has been established as a "leader" in the world future and no one else can defeat it.
 

dil-se-desi

MPA (400+ posts)
rahat said:
Pakistan is still better place not only for muslims but the maniorities such as Hindues, Christian etc, despite the rough treatment with Muslims in India and other parts.
Remember, the role of pakistan has been established as a "leader" in the world future and no one else can defeat it.





Pakistan constitution does discrimination with minorities, blasphemy laws just fill
rest of the gaps.

indian muslims are playing their role in parliament,govt and every where.

from last 5 few years thousands of hindus,sikhs and other minorities of pakistan have
fled to india and ask for refuge.
let me how many indian muslims fled to pakistan?????
 

butshikan

Councller (250+ posts)
dil-se-desi said:
Pakistan constitution does discrimination with minorities, blasphemy laws just fill
rest of the gaps.

indian muslims are playing their role in parliament,govt and every where.

from last 5 few years thousands of hindus,sikhs and other minorities of pakistan have
fled to india and ask for refuge.
let me how many indian muslims fled to pakistan?????

In some States like Orissa, MP, Chhatisgarh etc. there is a Right to Religion Act which specifically deal with the conversion in another religion. According to those, a permission from District Magistrate is required before you change your religion

As far as no. of Indian Muslims concerned we stop counting them as it is not possible now to keep a record of a large no of Muslims coming from India, Bangladesh and Afghanistan to Pakistan in search of a better life... ;)


Official figures show that during the last two years, the NARA has registered about 79,000 out of the 1.8 million illegal immigrants living only in Karachi. This figure is far less than that of immigrants who entered the country illegally during the two years since the NARA started registration,

source:http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_2-12-2004_pg7_29
 

rahat

Senator (1k+ posts)
Pakistan constitution does discrimination with minorities, blasphemy laws just fill
rest of the gaps.

indian muslims are playing their role in parliament,govt and every where.

from last 5 few years thousands of hindus,sikhs and other minorities of pakistan have
fled to india and ask for refuge.
let me how many indian muslims fled to pakistan?????

What a Joke joke, about peoples led from Pakistan to INdia.
Actually it is from the creation of Pakistan, all the times millions peoples fled illegally from India to Pakistan.

The best example is the dramatic rise in the population of Karachi at different intervels of the peoples belonging different Indians parts having mother Tongue Urdu and Gujarti.
 

Whats Up Doc

Councller (250+ posts)
butshikan said:
dil-se-desi said:
Pakistan constitution does discrimination with minorities, blasphemy laws just fill
rest of the gaps.

indian muslims are playing their role in parliament,govt and every where.

from last 5 few years thousands of hindus,sikhs and other minorities of pakistan have
fled to india and ask for refuge.
let me how many indian muslims fled to pakistan?????

In some States like Orissa, MP, Chhatisgarh etc. there is a Right to Religion Act which specifically deal with the conversion in another religion. According to those, a permission from District Magistrate is required before you change your religion

As far as no. of Indian Muslims concerned we stop counting them as it is not possible now to keep a record of a large no of Muslims coming from India, Bangladesh and Afghanistan to Pakistan in search of a better life... ;)

Official figures show that during the last two years, the NARA has registered about 79,000 out of the 1.8 million illegal immigrants living only in Karachi. This figure is far less than that of immigrants who entered the country illegally during the two years since the NARA started registration,

You are right butshikan some states have this policy. In case of Orrisa Christians were accused of converting people by giving them financial incentives and using coerce methods. Therefore the Govt. decided once you change your religion you sign an affidavit witnessed by a Magistrate that you are changing religion without any financial rewards or coercion. Personally I don't have any problem with anyone accepting money for accepting a religion. your Embassy in New Delhi can disclose as to how many Indian Muslims have applied to reside in Pakistan permanently.