Mansoor Ijaz( Qadyani) who is playing a very big role in destroying Pakistan. He is a Mosad Agent.

[Abdul Allah]

Telling lies is worst than using abusive language. If you intentionally do not tell the truth when talking to the other participants - as indeed you should not because your molvi tell you so - then it is telling lies and wasting time. I replied to your baseless allegations few times, but it's not my fault if your mind is not receptive. It seems to me that you are not willing to understand simple things while trying to tell me unbelievable things like Isa(as) is still alive on heaven and will come back to lead the Ummah of Muhammad(saw) because his Jahil Ummah (god forbid) isn't able to produce any wise man or prophet. What a nonsense! Quran it self says that he came to BANI ISRAEL AS A PROPHET. Wake up buddy!!! My challange still stand there... PROVE it from Quran that Isa(as) is not dead. ONE AYAT.

Among the many false allegations which Mullas put against the Promised Messiah (A.S.) there is one allegation that he has used abusive language against the opponents. In order to prove their false allegations the opponents twist the facts and even wrongly translate some of the writings of Promised Messiah (A.S). One of such Anti-Ahmadiyya campaigner Dr. Rashid is used to extensively present following wrongly translated and wrongly interpreted quote from the writings of Promised Messiah :

• "Except for the CHILDREN OF PROSTITUTE, whose hearts have been sealed by God, everyone else believes in me and has accepted me." (Aina-e-Kamalat-e-Islam, Roohani Khazain vol.5 p.547)

The correct translation of above quote is :
"Every Muslim will accept me and will confirm my claim except the zurrayatul baghaya whose hearts will have been sealed up by God Almighty." (Aina-e-Kamalat-e-Islam, Roohani Khazain vol.5 p.547)
Just imagine the honesty of these Mullahs!! Now lets further examine what could be meant by the words "zurrayatul baghaya" here. These are the words which Mr. Rashid has translated as "CHILDREN OF PROSTITUTE".
Remember that in all languages of the world the words are used in two ways. Either they are taken as literal or they are treated as metaphorical. It is the context which explains that in what sense the author has used them.
To further explain it lets take examples of following verses of Holy Quran where Allah says that :

1. "The worst of beasts in Allah's sight are the deaf, the dumb, who have no sense." (Holy Quran 8:22)
2. At another place Allah says that "Those who were blind in this world will be blind in the Hereafter and most astray from the Path" (Holy Quran 17:72)

(Note: Translation of above verses taken from Non-Ahmadi source)
Can those who overemphasize on literal meanings of "zurrayatul baghaya" also take the words "Blind, Dumb and Deaf" expressed in the verses of Holy Quran quoted above as LITERAL?????
Certainly not !!! Then why they overemphasize on Literal Meaning of the words "zurrayatul baghaya"??? Actually they are the people with double standards. And they use their double standards in most evil manners in order to misguide the Servants of Allah (God).
Keeping above background in view lets examine the under discussion quote of Promised Messiah (A.S). Promised Messiah had written :
"Every Muslim will accept me and will confirm my claim except the zurrayatul baghaya whose hearts will have been sealed up by God Almighty." (Aina-e-Kamalat-e-Islam, Roohani Khazain vol.5 p.547)
According to Promised Messiah (A.S) those whose hearts are sealed by God will not accept him. Here one must note that :

1. Sealing of heart by God is always used in metaphorical and spiritual sense. (Examples are available in Holy Quran as well). Thus the Promised Messiah (A.S) had made the meaning of "zurrayatul baghaya" very clear by explaining the spiritual state of nonbelievers rather than speaking about their materialistic /physical background.
2. By simple logic whose hearts are sealed by God could only be those whose spiritual birth and up-bringing is filthy i.e. those who are evil by nature. In spiritual matters it does not make difference that from whose progeny one belong to. Holy Quran clearly explains this phenomenon by giving the example of the Son of Prophet Noah (A.S). God tells us that despite being the progeny of Prophet, his heart was sealed by God, due to his evil nature, and so he did not follow the right path.

In addition to above according to one of the most well known lexicon, Tajul Urus, the term "zurrayatul baghaya" is also used for a person who is deprived of guidance. The "Tajul Urus" clearly states that to call a person "zurrayatul baghaya" means that he is deprived of guidance.
The example of the opponents of Promised Messiah (A.S), who are day and night busy in uttering filth and falsehood against him, is best described in Holy Quran as : "His similitude is that of a dog: if you attack him he lolls out his tongue or if you leave him alone he (still) lolls out his tongue. That is the similitude of those who reject our signs; so relate the story; perchance they may reflect." (Holy Quran 7:176).
Ref:http://www.real-islam.org/reply/zur.htm
Challenge to all of you
[video]http://youtu.be/56AxMWh1BCk[/video]
Watch this clip and learn to understand Islam

For GOD SAKE.
Do not blindly follow your Murabis Please.
Did i show you Aina Kamalat??? NO NO NO NO
Then why you are using this book to prove that Zuratul Baghaya did not mean Kharaba Urtoon ke Ulaad

I have shown you Nur-HAq book and that book have Arabic and Urdu as well both by your source . PLEASE GO AND OPEN THAT BOOK WHICH I REFER.
I am not talking about Aina Kamalat book as you can hide the truth on that book by using the logic oh they wrongly translate it.

BUT BUT WHAT ABOUT NUR-ul-HAQ it is translated by yourself(your sources)

ANSWER us about Nur-ul-HAQ.

That is FUNNY Ehraz

It is just like a murderer said in court sir when on 16MAy that person was killed I was in dubai on 14th of May. Oh Come one open your eyes we are talking about 16May.

So open your EYES answer MY Reference Not what i never present

THINK THINK BEFORE IT IS TO LATE.

 

[Abdul Allah]

ANOTHER LIES... please read this to end before making such ill statements. Ripping the text out of context is the same thing what your forefathers did so why not you... right?
http://www.alislam.org/urdu/au/AU6-5.pdf
read it from page 110 (pdf 29) onward and find the facts what he is saying...
btw. thank you for making it possible for others find the truth.

Oh come on
When i have shown the book name i have shown the page number and I have informed and exact page number using both book page number and pdf page number and i have told other that where this book is available
What it means ?

It means I want others to read it . and I have no intentions to hide any think just like you
that I have shown Nur-ul-Haq and you start defending Aina Kamalat
Oh that is funny tactic

 

[Abdul Allah]

Ehraz for you
once again
open that link
http://www.alislam.org/urdu/rk/Ruhani-Khazain-Vol-08.pdf
Download the book
open page number 185(of pdf) and 163 of the book you will find this page

and here Zuraytul Baghayia is translated as Kharaba urtoon ke ulaad by yourself. So that page not only prove that he call others who do not believe his words as Kharab urtoon ke ulaad and also it answer your claim that he did not use this word in bad meaning

 

[Abdul Allah]

Ehraz
As per my past experience with Ahamdis
i know now what your next answer will be on my reference of Nur-ul-Haq

 

[xiaahmad]

Originally Posted by M Ali Khan

only because of Deobandi/Barelvi propaganda thanks to that opportunistic badmash Maududi!

I consider Ahmedis/Qadiyanis as MUSLIMS. They dont believe in some other 'prophet' but have their own khalifa. the believe in same quran, same hadith, same sunnah (and its various versions)

so that is enough to be called a Muslim

kar lo jo karna hai!

SORRY BUT U GOT IT WRONG LIKE ALTAF HUSSAIN THIS IS WHAT THERE LEADER SAID FEW DAYS AGO:

Mirza Masroor Ahmad LEADER OF AHMADIYYA SAID in his Friday sermon of 13th May, 2011 informed his fellow Ahmadis to consider Mirza Hulam Ahmad Sahib as a ‘Prophet of God’.
He was responding to some Ahmadis not considering MGA Sahib as a prophet of God. He made it very clear that;


“If we did not accept the Promised Messiah (on whom be peace) as a Prophet then our claim that Islam will be triumphant through its second phase would be erroneous, because God has promised triumph with a Prophet; not a Mujaddad (reformer)


M ALI KHAN GOT IT????
NEXT TIME READ, LEARN AND THEN COMMENT so that u dont end up making a joke out of ur self

Abdullah you are right...
Just coz some where Metaphorical stuff is used you dont assume that every place where u dont like its metaphorical

 

[Abdul Allah]

It seems to me that you are not willing to understand simple things while trying to tell me unbelievable things like Isa(as) is still alive on heaven and will come back to lead the Ummah of Muhammad(saw) because his Jahil Ummah (god forbid) isn't able to produce any wise man or prophet. What a nonsense! Quran it self says that he came to BANI ISRAEL AS A PROPHET. Wake up buddy!!! My challange still stand there... PROVE it from Quran that Isa(as) is not dead. ONE AYAT.

And Ehraz
I have shown you an Ayat and you was not able to defend it
I have shown you an Ayat and also shown from your books that this Ayat is even used by your MGA in His Ilhami book as a Solid proof and NISHANI of coming of Isa As in body

So when you are not willing to accept words of MGA that he wrote in his ILHAMI book then what else you want?
and i can show you many Ayat

But as i have said that with you there is a problem that you accept translation and tafasir written a 100 years ago and deny and neglect translation and tafsir of past 1400 years.

you have closed your eyes you only listen and read translation and tafsir of Quran that is from your murabis not from past 1400 years

Tell me what is the rule of a mujadid? To RENEW Islam to its old state right? and a Mujadid came in each century
and before your MGA there were 13-14 mujadid
Name any one mujadid that support your claim that Isa AS is dead nauzbillah?
If believe Isa AS as Alive is wrong and not in Islam then
WHY not any Mujadid did not remove this wrong concept from Muslims.

You neglect tafsir of Mujadids but you talke tafsir of your Murabis
for you
Tafsir by a Mujadid
And mention, when God said, O Jesus, I am gathering you, seizing you, and raising you to Me, away from the world without death, and I am cleansing you of, removing you far away from, those who disbelieved, and I am setting those who follow you, those Christians and Muslims who believed in your prophethood, above those who disbelieved, in you, namely, the Jews, becoming above them through [definitive] argument and the sword, until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me shall be your return, and I will decide between you, as to what you were at variance about, as regards religion.

and
your murabi translated Quran in a way that a miracle of a Rasool become ordinary thing.
and example for you. See how your source play with the tafsir of Quran

 

[xiaahmad]

Ehraz
Why ahmadies cant think beyong ESA(AS) dont u know ppl like ghamdi , Khalid Zaheer believe that already and Sir Syed claimed that way before Mirza Ghulam :)

so even if some one believe ESA(AS) to be dead still you cant prove Mirza Ghulam to be Truthful got it?

 

[Ehraz]

Oh come on
When i have shown the book name i have shown the page number and I have informed and exact page number using both book page number and pdf page number and i have told other that where this book is available
What it means ?

It means I want others to read it . and I have no intentions to hide any think just like you
that I have shown Nur-ul-Haq and you start defending Aina Kamalat
Oh that is funny tactic

At least you don't cry and curse like your fellow participants if they are confronted with the truth. I don't get rid of the impression that you are not willing to understand simple things. First thing you came up with was that Ahmadi do not consider other Muslims as Muslim because they do not believe in Hazrat Mirza Sahib(as). Ref given by you I proved your point as wrong one. It is clear mentioned in Surah Baqarah:
"... all of them believe in Allah, and in His angels, and in His Books, and in His Messengers, saying, We make no distinction between any of His Messengers; and they say, We hear, and we obey. We implore Thy forgiveness, O our Lord, and to Thee is the returning." (2:286).
And one who do not believe in this ayat and reject the messenger of Allah, how would you call him? Simple thing and you failed to understand at whole. I am not here to teach you the Quran, and if you don't consider Hazrat Mirza Sahib (as) as a messenger of Allah, then this is the matter between you and Allah. But according to Quran everyone who make distinction or reject the messenger of Allah is Kafir. It's not me or any Ahmadi saying this, the Quran says so. And this is what Hazrat Mirza Bashir-ud-Din Mahmud Ahmad said. Please read few pages ahead and you find what he was talking instead ripping text out of context to prove him wrong. Cheap tactic! *head shake*

It's amazing how much you hate and curse is in your heart against the Ahmadiyya Jamaat, but you still can't stay away from them. AMAZING! Pray for your self and for the others... may Allah guide us all on his right path. Ameen.
I hope this particular matter is done and we can move forward in our discussion.

 

[Ehraz]

And Ehraz
I have shown you an Ayat and you was not able to defend it
I have shown you an Ayat and also shown from your books that this Ayat is even used by your MGA in His Ilhami book as a Solid proof and NISHANI of coming of Isa As in body

So when you are not willing to accept words of MGA that he wrote in his ILHAMI book then what else you want?
and i can show you many Ayat

But as i have said that with you there is a problem that you accept translation and tafasir written a 100 years ago and deny and neglect translation and tafsir of past 1400 years.

you have closed your eyes you only listen and read translation and tafsir of Quran that is from your murabis not from past 1400 years

Tell me what is the rule of a mujadid? To RENEW Islam to its old state right? and a Mujadid came in each century
and before your MGA there were 13-14 mujadid
Name any one mujadid that support your claim that Isa AS is dead nauzbillah?
If believe Isa AS as Alive is wrong and not in Islam then
WHY not any Mujadid did not remove this wrong concept from Muslims.

You neglect tafsir of Mujadids but you talke tafsir of your Murabis
for you
Tafsir by a Mujadid
And mention, when God said, ‘O Jesus, I am gathering you, seizing you, and raising you to Me, away from the world without death, and I am cleansing you of, removing you far away from, those who disbelieved, and I am setting those who follow you, those Christians and Muslims who believed in your prophethood, above those who disbelieved, in you, namely, the Jews, becoming above them through [definitive] argument and the sword, until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me shall be your return, and I will decide between you, as to what you were at variance about, as regards religion.

and
your murabi translated Quran in a way that a miracle of a Rasool become ordinary thing.
and example for you. See how your source play with the tafsir of Quran

You seems to be a very confused person...! no offence meant. You are talking weird! Is it so hard to bring up SINGLE AYAT from Quran that proves the contrary? SINGEL AYAT PLEASE.

 

[Abdul Allah]

At least you don't cry and curse like your fellow participants if they are confronted with the truth.

And also not like your MGA

I don't get rid of the impression that you are not willing to understand simple things. First thing you came up with was that Ahmadi do not consider other Muslims as Muslim because they do not believe in Hazrat Mirza Sahib(as). Ref given by you I proved your point as wrong one. It is clear mentioned in Surah Baqarah:
"

... all of them believe in Allah, and in His angels, and in His Books, and in His Messengers, saying, ‘We make no distinction between any of His Messengers;’ and they say, ‘We hear, and we obey. We implore Thy forgiveness, O our Lord, and to Thee is the returning." (2:286).
And one who do not believe in this ayat and reject the messenger of Allah, how would you call him? Simple thing and you failed to understand at whole.

THAT IS WHAT I HAVE SAID Ehraz
Point under discussion is not that On what basis you believe us Kafir or non muslim. point is you believe us KAFIR but did not admit in public after attack in lahore on your places your spokes person openly lie on tv that We did not consider non Ahmadi as non muslim. And you know all non Ahmadi did not believe on your MGA as prophet infact they blieve hik Kazaab. So why lie on TV? for deception if not then what it is?
Again i said the point under discussion is not that Why you call us Kafir. point is you call us kafir or not.

I am not here to teach you the Quran, and if you don't consider Hazrat Mirza Sahib (as) as a messenger of Allah, then this is the matter between you and Allah. But according to Quran everyone who make distinction or reject the messenger of Allah is Kafir. It's not me or any Ahmadi saying this, the Quran says so. And this is what Hazrat Mirza Bashir-ud-Din Mahmud Ahmad

said. Please read few pages ahead and you find what he was talking instead ripping text out of context to prove him wrong. Cheap tactic! *head shake*

It's amazing how much you hate and curse is in your heart against the Ahmadiyya Jamaat, but you still can't stay away from them. AMAZING! Pray for your self and for the others... may Allah guide us all on his right path. Ameen.
I hope this particular matter is done and we can move forward in our discussion.

I have no hate against you or your jamat. and also no curse for you .

But wait i remember 1000 time ***** written by your MGA. A funny behaviour by so called prophet. he use 3,4 pages to just write ***** 1, ***** 2, etc... to 1000 Very funny isnt it?

 

[xiaahmad]

At least you don't cry and curse like your fellow participants if they are confronted with the truth. I don't get rid of the impression that you are not willing to understand simple things. First thing you came up with was that Ahmadi do not consider other Muslims as Muslim because they do not believe in Hazrat Mirza Sahib(as). Ref given by you I proved your point as wrong one. It is clear mentioned in Surah Baqarah:
"... all of them believe in Allah, and in His angels, and in His Books, and in His Messengers, saying, ‘We make no distinction between any of His Messengers;’ and they say, ‘We hear, and we obey. We implore Thy forgiveness, O our Lord, and to Thee is the returning." (2:286).
And one who do not believe in this ayat and reject the messenger of Allah, how would you call him? Simple thing and you failed to understand at whole. I am not here to teach you the Quran, and if you don't consider Hazrat Mirza Sahib (as) as a messenger of Allah, then this is the matter between you and Allah. But according to Quran everyone who make distinction or reject the messenger of Allah is Kafir. It's not me or any Ahmadi saying this, the Quran says so. And this is what Hazrat Mirza Bashir-ud-Din Mahmud Ahmad said. Please read few pages ahead and you find what he was talking instead ripping text out of context to prove him wrong. Cheap tactic! *head shake*

It's amazing how much you hate and curse is in your heart against the Ahmadiyya Jamaat, but you still can't stay away from them. AMAZING! Pray for your self and for the others... may Allah guide us all on his right path. Ameen.
I hope this particular matter is done and we can move forward in our discussion.

You got it totally wrong I think ur Ahmadiyya Jammat have kept you in dark about their beliefs read this carefully Your Jammat Consider NON AHMADIES TO BE NON MUSLIM AND KAFIR:

So Why double standards?

http://thecult.info/blog

 

[Ehraz]

Mirza Masroor Ahmad LEADER OF AHMADIYYA SAID in his Friday sermon of 13th May, 2011 informed his fellow Ahmadis to consider Mirza Hulam Ahmad Sahib as a Prophet of God. He was responding to some Ahmadis not considering MGA Sahib as a prophet of God. He made it very clear that;

What would you call Isa(as) when he will send to the earth? Will he not be a PROPHET OF ALLAH? *laugh*
In a Sahi Muslim Hadith he mentioned 4 Times AS A PROPHET OF ALLAH. SO WHAT?

 

[Abdul Allah]

You seems to be a very confused person...! no offence meant. You are talking weird! Is it so hard to bring up SINGLE AYAT from Quran that proves the contrary? SINGEL AYAT PLEASE.

You are funny
Ehraz

I have shown you one Ayath already that you cant deny as your MGA have used the same Ayath in his Ilahmi book
or you must admit that his Ilham was wrong
and a person with wrong Ilham will be...... your guess

and if you have read this in my above post you might not have said that.
It is a tafsir of Quranic Ayath by an Mujadid.
And mention, when God said, ‘O Jesus, I am gathering you, seizing you, and raising you to Me, away from the world without death, and I am cleansing you of, removing you far away from, those who disbelieved, and I am setting those who follow you, those Christians and Muslims who believed in your prophethood, above those who disbelieved, in you, namely, the Jews, becoming above them through [definitive] argument and the sword, until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me shall be your return, and I will decide between you, as to what you were at variance about, as regards religion.

So if you are not going to admit the tafsir of Mujadid then what else you want.

Twisted translation and tafsir of your Murabis Sorry then i have expose your twist on Quranic tafsir.

And you did not answer my question regarding Mujadid
that if in past 1400 years no mujadid have said that Isa AS is dead Nauzbillah what it shows?

I have shown you Ayath but you are not willing to accept it.

 

[xiaahmad]

What would you call Isa(as) when he will send to the earth? Will he not be a PROPHET OF ALLAH? *laugh*
In a Sahi Muslim Hadith he mentioned 4 Times AS A PROPHET OF ALLAH. SO WHAT?

That reply was for the guy who claimed that ahmadies does not believe in OTHER PROPHET :D got it?

who is mentioned in Hadith??? Mirza Ibn Chargbibi??? or ESA IBN MARYAM???

Its funny that ur whole ahmadiyya religion is based upon assumptions

 

[Ehraz]

[B]http://thecult.info/blog[/B]

LOOK AT YOUR SOURCE :-)
When you want to know what a person thinks, or a sect thinks, go to an unbiased observer or ask the person or read what that person wrote. I would advise you to read what the Ahmadis say istead of reading what their enemies say about them because you are judging them.

 

[Abdul Allah]

What would you call Isa(as) when he will send to the earth? Will he not be a PROPHET OF ALLAH? *laugh*
In a Sahi Muslim Hadith he mentioned 4 Times AS A PROPHET OF ALLAH. SO WHAT?

Isa AS is Nabi ul Allah but not Ghulam Ahmad
Not even one place Rasool Allah said that He will be like Isa AS (even then MGA was never like him in any case) Rasool Allah pbuh alwasy said Isa AS will come.

 

[xiaahmad]

LOOK AT YOUR SOURCE :-)
When you want to know what a person thinks, or a sect thinks, go to an unbiased observer or ask the person or read what that person wrote. I would advise you to read what the Ahmadis say istead of reading what their enemies say about them because you are judging them.

I dont read there I contribute there I have given the link for your reference and u come and read stuff there
and instead of talking about the quotation of Mirza Mahmud i gave you are point out issues with the link that I gave.... LOL

 

[Abdul Allah]

LOOK AT YOUR SOURCE :-)
When you want to know what a person thinks, or a sect thinks, go to an unbiased observer or ask the person or read what that person wrote. I would advise you to read what the Ahmadis say istead of reading what their enemies say about them because you are judging them.

Then come to me
I read what your MGA write from direct source your official website

 

[Ehraz]

That reply was for the guy who claimed that ahmadies does not believe in OTHER PROPHET :D got it?

who is mentioned in Hadith??? Mirza Ibn Chargbibi??? or ESA IBN MARYAM???

Its funny that ur whole ahmadiyya religion is based upon assumptions

This is your problem - you stop think when other start
When Quran and Muhammad(saw) said Isa is dead who the hell are you trying make one dead person alive? :-) You will fail to make him alive because Allah gave him death and high rutbah. OOOOH MY GOODNESSSS

 

[xiaahmad]

You got it totally wrong I think ur Ahmadiyya Jammat have kept you in dark about their beliefs read this carefully Your Jammat Consider NON AHMADIES TO BE NON MUSLIM AND KAFIR:

So Why double standards?

http://thecult.info/blog

Any thing on this ??? Why double standards???