ISI - a brilliant, most efficient intelligence agency --- the pride of pakistan and pakistan's first

[Lucky4u]

I know a fair bit about Bal Thackeray and he truly is a bigot. He exhibits racism not only against muslims but all non-maharashtrians. And same is the case with Narendra Modi. It is India's loss that they haven't tightened the legal noose around such people. But it must be said that they are not part of a infrastructure that exports terrorism, as is the case with likes of Hafiz Saeed & Sallahudin. Besides does pakistanis really need to wait for others to do the right thing before they do so?
Please don't think that I am trying to put India above pakistan or anything like that. I just want all nations in the subcontinent to start getting along with each other and play productive roles. In that context, I see india having a better vision than pakistan. This is India's vision as described by Foreign Secretary Nirupama Rao, "We want to see a peaceful, stable, energy-secure and prosperous Pakistan that acts as a bulwark against terrorism for its own sake and for the good of the region."

My Dear Pali! You can't compare Hafiz Saeed and Bal Takuray or Nareender Modi..... Hafiz Saeed is running an organization and he is not sitting in our Parliament. While Nareender Modi and Bal Takuray enjoyed political power and used Government machinery to achieve their goals. AND before pointing fingers at others, please clean your own floor first.

With all due respect, whenever someone mention India's vision for the sub continent, it brings a smile on my face... I don't want to enter into such a long debate where we both will have different arguments and I bet you won't agree with me (Vice Versa).
India's vision about Sub continent???? Can you please mention a single country in sub continent where India is not juggling things??? (I won't talk about Kashmir, like how your army entered it??? ) India's best vision for the region demanded her to be a nuclear power as early as 1971 and of course the same vision forced them to help their neighbors in dividing their country. This is India's best vision which is creating water problem in Pakistan today and She is asking for good relations. This is India's best vision that they have more than 100 consulates and information centers in Afghanistan, More than 18 just on our boarder....
My friend!!! Once I quoted Malcolm X on this forum and he said “You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it.”

We also want peace but we will never bow down to someone for that.... Peace and friendship with everyone but with dignity.
Have a nice time, Dude
-Peace

 

[Tilloo]

ISI is one of the best Agency in the world.....
and we all r proud of it.....
ISI Zindabad........Pakistan Paindabad:pakistan-flag-wavin:pakistan-flag-wavin

 

[abuyavar]

Afwaj-e-Pakistan Zindabad
Pakistan Paindabad
Propaganda kunandegan murdabad

What a foolish reply

 

[KleanSiasat]

pakistan zindabad.
pak army zindabad.
pak awam zindabad.

 

[gazoomartian]

What a foolish reply

Afwaj-e-Pakistan Zindabad
Pakistan Paindabad
Propaganda kunandegan murdabad

 

[pali1981]

My Dear Pali! You can't compare Hafiz Saeed and Bal Takuray or Nareender Modi..... Hafiz Saeed is running an organization and he is not sitting in our Parliament. While Nareender Modi and Bal Takuray enjoyed political power and used Government machinery to achieve their goals. AND before pointing fingers at others, please clean your own floor first.

With all due respect, whenever someone mention India's vision for the sub continent, it brings a smile on my face... I don't want to enter into such a long debate where we both will have different arguments and I bet you won't agree with me (Vice Versa).
India's vision about Sub continent???? Can you please mention a single country in sub continent where India is not juggling things??? (I won't talk about Kashmir, like how your army entered it??? ) India's best vision for the region demanded her to be a nuclear power as early as 1971 and of course the same vision forced them to help their neighbors in dividing their country. This is India's best vision which is creating water problem in Pakistan today and She is asking for good relations. This is India's best vision that they have more than 100 consulates and information centers in Afghanistan, More than 18 just on our boarder....
My friend!!! Once I quoted Malcolm X on this forum and he said “You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it.”

We also want peace but we will never bow down to someone for that.... Peace and friendship with everyone but with dignity.
Have a nice time, Dude
-Peace

100 consulates !!!....... thats news to me. Can you list them all? As for Hafiz Saeed, you are right, he's is running an organization which happens to be not only listed as terrorist organization by most countries but also UN.

Most of other things you say are deflective rather than being constructive. India's relations with other neighbours are far better than say they are between india & pakistan or between pakistan & afghanistan. As for water issue, Indus water treaty was never violated by India even when the two nations were at war. And if it is being violated now then there is a method of addressing that. I think pakistan had in the past even had 3rd party arbitration on this issue.

And Malcolm X was right "wrong is wrong". ISI's nurturing of jihadi elements is wrong for the region and more importantly wrong for pakistan itself. This has made the path to peace more difficult.

 

[hassam]

ISI may be the worst organization on the face of earth but I can not get away with my love for it and the reason is, all the powers that are enemies of Islam see ISI as a sheet of thorns in their path to eradicate muslims power. They consider ISI as a islamic fundamentalist organization that is behind failing the agenda of the all the world powers together. Hats off for that. I do not know how much dirty politics they might have played becuase no body has ever provided a proof of their claim but I know Shaheed General Akhtar Abdul Rahman and the way he mobilized ISI to defeat the Russians.

It gives me a sense of pleasure and pride when every exploding ballon in beighbours is blamed on ISI. Not becuase I love mayhem (hate it to be honest), just becuase it tells me that this organization has its fear instilled in the hearts and minds of enemies. The nightmare of ISI haunts in the dreams and the thoughts of enemies of Pakistan and those with Imperialistics agendas. If ISI would have been a bikao organization then there would not be any blame game against them. That blame game it self tells scores about their achievements and agenda.

Apart from all that, I strongly feel a need to going back to roots in every aspect of our life. We need to reorganize ISI on Islamic principles to get more success with the blessings of Allah. Mayhem should not be the goal but to get precise calculated targets with advance psyops and perception management.

 

[Lucky4u]

100 consulates !!!....... thats news to me. Can you list them all? As for Hafiz Saeed, you are right, he's is running an organization which happens to be not only listed as terrorist organization by most countries but also UN.

Most of other things you say are deflective rather than being constructive. India's relations with other neighbours are far better than say they are between india & pakistan or between pakistan & afghanistan. As for water issue, Indus water treaty was never violated by India even when the two nations were at war. And if it is being violated now then there is a method of addressing that. I think pakistan had in the past even had 3rd party arbitration on this issue.

And Malcolm X was right "wrong is wrong". ISI's nurturing of jihadi elements is wrong for the region and more importantly wrong for pakistan itself. This has made the path to peace more difficult.

Well, The picture is getting more clear now. In simple words neither of us (at least I am sure about you :) ) is ready to agree.... You have your points and I have mine and we are repeating it again and again so I think there is no need to argue on that anymore.
Lets hope there will be peace some day and both countries will talk to each other on level terms. It was a nice argument with you. Have a nice time :)
-Peace

 

[Star Gazer]

Most of other things you say are deflective rather than being constructive. India's relations with other neighbours are far better than say they are between india & pakistan or between pakistan & afghanistan. As for water issue, Indus water treaty was never violated by India even when the two nations were at war. And if it is being violated now then there is a method of addressing that. I think pakistan had in the past even had 3rd party arbitration on this issue.

And Malcolm X was right "wrong is wrong". ISI's nurturing of jihadi elements is wrong for the region and more importantly wrong for pakistan itself. This has made the path to peace more difficult.

For all your rhetoric and seminal lectures would you like to provide a shred of evidence as to the involvement of the ISI? rather then just repeating yourself! As far as the RAW involvement is concerned in the terrorist attacks in Pakistan ample proof has been provided to indians but as usual they are in denial by choice. Indus water treaty is being violated now by india in you own words thankyou! and the method for addressing it is what ? keep mentioning it to your royal highness so you might consider it? Like I have stated in the past indians have never ruled the land now called india untill 1947 so it will take them perhaps many years to learn the ways of the rulers!

 

[YAHYA87]

To be very honest here I would say that ISI has its own flaws but if we analyze ISI's success and failures we get is that in Afghanistan affairs ISI has always proved itself like when Dawood Khan was the president of Afghanistan then he started to promote Pashtunistan ideology and ISI counter it by using Islamic card like Gulbaddin Hikmatyar, Abdullah Shah Masood and another person whom I dont know the name of....That strategy was successful and it even forced Dawood Khan to start relations with Pakistan and after that Afghan Jihad was another success and then Khalistan was also one of their finest performance as well(Even though Khalistan strategy failed but this gave a big blow to India)...Now lets check out their failures...

Their first failure would be Karachi as they try to take MQM by creating a group called MQM Haqiqi but this strategy failed because MQM Haqiqi couldnt able to gain support and MQM-A was able to resist the whole thing all together and their next failure was Kashmir as when Kashmiri came out at the streets in 1987 against India they created many groups to help those Kashmiris who were on the streets against India and after that whole struggle of Kashmir started weak day by day and now this struggle has gone so weak that it has almost came to its ending point....Now lets analyze some factors behind their failures...

In my First para I mentioned Afghanistan and Khalistan and if we analyze both of them then we get that both are very conservative like as we know about Afghanistan is a very conservative society like our tribal areas and most people of upcountry so their success indicate their strategic excellence on those issues...while in failure we have Karachi and Kashmir and if we analyze both are Liberal societies as in those areas which are mentioned in their failure people from different backgrounds and different point of views live together as in Karachi their are people from all over country living in this city and also in Kashmir Hindus(In Jammu), Muslims(in Kashmir) and Buddhist(In Ladhakh) are living side by side(Although Muslims are in majority in each places I mentioned) so they are very much liberal societies and ISI strategies for those places were truly let it to failure so based on that I would say that although ISI has its own good track record which speaks for itself but..ISI is successful in conservative areas and unsuccessful in liberal areas indicate their CONSERVATIVE MINDSET in making strategies which lead to failure in few cases where people's mindset is more towards liberal....So this is the BIGGEST FLAWS in ISI that THEY DONT HAVE GOOD LIBERAL THINK TANKS for making strategies....

 

[gazoomartian]

ISI may be the worst organization on the face of earth but I can not get away with my love for it and the reason is, all the powers that are enemies of Islam see ISI as a sheet of thorns in their path to eradicate muslims power. They consider ISI as a islamic fundamentalist organization that is behind failing the agenda of the all the world powers together. Hats off for that. I do not know how much dirty politics they might have played becuase no body has ever provided a proof of their claim but I know Shaheed General Akhtar Abdul Rahman and the way he mobilized ISI to defeat the Russians.

It gives me a sense of pleasure and pride when every exploding ballon in beighbours is blamed on ISI. Not becuase I love mayhem (hate it to be honest), just becuase it tells me that this organization has its fear instilled in the hearts and minds of enemies. The nightmare of ISI haunts in the dreams and the thoughts of enemies of Pakistan and those with Imperialistics agendas. If ISI would have been a bikao organization then there would not be any blame game against them. That blame game it self tells scores about their achievements and agenda.

Apart from all that, I strongly feel a need to going back to roots in every aspect of our life. We need to reorganize ISI on Islamic principles to get more success with the blessings of Allah. Mayhem should not be the goal but to get precise calculated targets with advance psyops and perception management.

(clap)(clap) Well said and my hats off to you.

Just want to add my own saying: If I have something that enemy hates, I must be in a possession of a good thing. Alhamdulillah

 

[pali1981]

For all your rhetoric and seminal lectures would you like to provide a shred of evidence as to the involvement of the ISI? rather then just repeating yourself! As far as the RAW involvement is concerned in the terrorist attacks in Pakistan ample proof has been provided to indians but as usual they are in denial by choice. Indus water treaty is being violated now by india in you own words thankyou! and the method for addressing it is what ? keep mentioning it to your royal highness so you might consider it? Like I have stated in the past indians have never ruled the land now called india untill 1947 so it will take them perhaps many years to learn the ways of the rulers!

The evidence given is enough for the world community... but if you prefer to hear it from a pakistani then read Ahmed Rashid's book 'Taliban' & 'Descent into Chaos'. To mention the most recent one would be the indian kabul embassy bombing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Indian_embassy_bombing_in_Kabul) & 2008 mumbai attacks. In the later, along with GPS & phone records, you have testimony from Kasab & David Headley. A pakistani-canadian Tahawwur Hussain Rana has also been charged in US for the mumbai attacks.

Please kindly share the evidence of RAW's involvement.

"Indus water treaty is being violated now by india in you own words thankyou! and the method for addressing it is what"
Stargazer, do you know what the word 'if' means?? Anyways, please acquaint yourself with the treaty instead of asking others. A little research on your part will save you from ignorance and help us keep the intellectual level of discussion from dropping down.

As for your last comment about rulers, I don't think indians want to 'learn the ways of the rulers'. They rather learn how to fight a good election & serve their term. But since you raised this comment, I must ask how well has pakistan done by knowing 'the ways of the rulers'??

 

[pali1981]

@ hassam "It gives me a sense of pleasure and pride when every exploding ballon in beighbours is blamed on ISI. Not becuase I love mayhem (hate it to be honest), just becuase it tells me that this organization has its fear instilled in the hearts and minds of enemies."

Is that truly the kind of relationship you want to have with your neighbours? You sound like a sick man who gets off by "instilling fear in hearts and minds". If 'enemies of islam' as you call them, which i am certain includes the West, really wanted pakistan to fail then they wouldn't be writing off your debts, loaning you new money, giving millions in aid & weaponry.

 

[pali1981]

(clap)(clap) Well said and my hats off to you.

Just want to add my own saying: If I have something that enemy hates, I must be in a possession of a good thing. Alhamdulillah

You have canada as your country flag. Do you live in canada?

 

[Star Gazer]

The evidence given is enough for the world community... but if you prefer to hear it from a pakistani then read Ahmed Rashid's book 'Taliban' & 'Descent into Chaos'. To mention the most recent one would be the indian kabul embassy bombing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Indian_embassy_bombing_in_Kabul) & 2008 mumbai attacks. In the later, along with GPS & phone records, you have testimony from Kasab & David Headley. A pakistani-canadian Tahawwur Hussain Rana has also been charged in US for the mumbai attacks.

Please kindly share the evidence of RAW's involvement.

"Indus water treaty is being violated now by india in you own words thankyou! and the method for addressing it is what"
Stargazer, do you know what the word 'if' means?? Anyways, please acquaint yourself with the treaty instead of asking others. A little research on your part will save you from ignorance and help us keep the intellectual level of discussion from dropping down.

As for your last comment about rulers, I don't think indians want to 'learn the ways of the rulers'. They rather learn how to fight a good election & serve their term. But since you raised this comment, I must ask how well has pakistan done by knowing 'the ways of the rulers'??

For your kind information if some one is charged it still has to be proven or maybe in india they say "charge a Pakistani and that means conviction."
As for ONE book by ONE Pakistani national (which you happen to know the name of!), in that case read the book by Jaswant Singh about how indians treat muslims in india and then listen to Noam Chomsky and Alxis Jones ,Talat Hussain and Hamid Gul to name a few.
Don't waste time, take care of the 450 million untouchables adorning the shining india.
Take care of the worlds largest population of prostitutes and child labour in the world.
Spend more on your people to prevent AIDS population from exploding.
As for neighbors of india who do you have good relations with? Pakistan? China? Bangladesh?
By the way what was the role of india when Soviet union invaded Afghanistan?? Opportunistic!!

 

[pali1981]

For your kind information if some one is charged it still has to be proven or maybe in india they say "charge a Pakistani and that means conviction."
As for ONE book by ONE Pakistani national (which you happen to know the name of!), in that case read the book by Jaswant Singh about how indians treat muslims in india and then listen to Noam Chomsky and Alxis Jones ,Talat Hussain and Hamid Gul to name a few.
Don't waste time, take care of the 450 million untouchables adorning the shining india.
Take care of the worlds largest population of prostitutes and child labour in the world.
Spend more on your people to prevent AIDS population from exploding.
As for neighbors of india who do you have good relations with? Pakistan? China? Bangladesh?
By the way what was the role of india when Soviet union invaded Afghanistan?? Opportunistic!!

Kasab has been convicted of his charges and David Headley (aka Daood Sayed Gilani) has pleaded guilty.

You are right india does have the problems of population, poverty, prostitution, aids and untouchability and pakistan can help in that regard by not facilitating men who bomb our poor civilians. As for china & bangladesh, there is no war like situation and dialogues are on going as is trade and travel. I am hopeful relations between pakistan & india will also improve under Gilani & Manmohan's leadership. What worries me is another attack like the one on mumbai in 2008 that was traced back to pakistan and what that would do to our relations that are just starting to crawl back towards normalcy. There is no doubt that the men who planned the mumbai attack do not want peace between the two nations but they must be defeated and that can only be done by pakistanis themselves. So my question to you is DO YOU WANT SUCH MEN TO SUCCEED OR FAIL?

 

[desicad]

Kasab has been convicted of his charges and David Headley (aka Daood Sayed Gilani) has pleaded guilty.

You are right india does have the problems of population, poverty, prostitution, aids and untouchability and pakistan can help in that regard by not facilitating men who bomb our poor civilians. As for china & bangladesh, there is no war like situation and dialogues are on going as is trade and travel. I am hopeful relations between pakistan & india will also improve under Gilani & Manmohan's leadership. What worries me is another attack like the one on mumbai in 2008 that was traced back to pakistan and what that would do to our relations that are just starting to crawl back towards normalcy. There is no doubt that the men who planned the mumbai attack do not want peace between the two nations but they must be defeated and that can only be done by pakistanis themselves. So my question to you is DO YOU WANT SUCH MEN TO SUCCEED OR FAIL?

Hey! only 14 posts old and you are going great guns. Straight out of pavilion and hitting the ball all over the ground. (bigsmile)
Good stuff.

 

[Lucky4u]

Kasab has been convicted of his charges and David Headley (aka Daood Sayed Gilani) has pleaded guilty.

So my question to you is DO YOU WANT SUCH MEN TO SUCCEED OR FAIL?

Dear Pali,
I thought I am done with the topic but your innocent questions are forcing me to reply again :). Just forget about India's relations with her neighbors and what India did and still doing with Pakistan because you are looking at the other side of the picture....
For the sake of argument, lets admit that Mumbai attacks were planned in Pakistan by Pakistani citizens (I said ''for the sake of argument'' because I don't take what you have provided as evidence)...... Do you really think that you can stop terrorism without killing the root cause???? Have you ever thought that why these people love to mess with India???? You are putting bushes on fire and asking us to stop the smoke..... If India needs peace, then they have to kill the root cause and you know the root cause better than me.
-Peace

 

[desicad]

Dear Pali,
I thought I am done with the topic but your innocent questions are forcing me to reply again :). Just forget about India's relations with her neighbors and what India did and still doing with Pakistan because you are looking at the other side of the picture....
For the sake of argument, lets admit that Mumbai attacks were planned in Pakistan by Pakistani citizens (I said ''for the sake of argument'' because I don't take what you have provided as evidence)......

Whether you take or not doesn't matter, your govt. has already accepted most of it.

Do you really think that you can stop terrorism without killing the root cause???? Have you ever thought that why these people love to mess with India???? You are putting bushes on fire and asking us to stop the smoke..... If India needs peace, then they have to kill the root cause and you know the root cause better than me.
-Peace

You mean if root cause is not addressed, terrorism is the way to go? If not then pakistani govt is responsible for controlling pakistani citizens involved in terrorist activities in India.

 

[hassam]

@ hassam "It gives me a sense of pleasure and pride when every exploding ballon in beighbours is blamed on ISI. Not becuase I love mayhem (hate it to be honest), just becuase it tells me that this organization has its fear instilled in the hearts and minds of enemies."

Is that truly the kind of relationship you want to have with your neighbours? You sound like a sick man who gets off by "instilling fear in hearts and minds". If 'enemies of islam' as you call them, which i am certain includes the West, really wanted pakistan to fail then they wouldn't be writing off your debts, loaning you new money, giving millions in aid & weaponry.

Dear Pali! do not act like your media or rather I think the way your media react to everything is a reflection of the mental state of majority of indians. Try to understand the message and understand the audience. My audience were the people from Pakistan who think that ISI do not work for Pakistan but for their own gains and that was my answer to them. If it was not the case then our enemies would not be scared of them becuase they would know that they can buy them like the politicians/establishment of our country.

what kind of relationship I want to have with the neighbours is reflect in the last sentence that I wrote where I emphasized on the fact that we should go back to Islamic roots and if you had any bit of know how based on our teaching we should treat our neighbours well and be more humane then more insane. As long as they do not mess with our brothers.

To your third point. I do not include Indians among the enemies of Islam mostly. They might be enemies of Pakistan but that is all they want. There is a vast majority of muslims live there anyway.

Finally, let be real. Taking the historical evidence of the real shrewd nature of human being do you think that the rhetoric of being peaceful can work? In order for the peace to prevail your fear has to be in the heart of your enemy otherwise there will be no peace. This is a bloody truth. Unfortunately it is.

Even with all the injustice, hypocracy and double standards of USA can any body talk tough to them!! it is becuase their fear is in the minds and hearts of people so they always look for a peaceful way of saving some grace after being punished by them and their allies. Can not you see that? So my friend, I am not sick. I am realistic. I do not watch movies, rather spend my time understanding the dire realities of the world and try to understand why we are where we are.

If you think you are shining star of Asia, start acting like it. And please next time before replying back to my posts ask me to explain you what I meant. It will save me some time, and you some grace.