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Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?
Dear shamsheer, we daily use same words in various ways to get different meanings acorss. When some one does something wrong we ask, are you a human? When in battle field we ask, are you a man? When we send someone to some one as a messenger, we say yeh mera aadami hai. When we compare genders we say, are you a man? Each time by using word man or human we are trying to emphasis a different aspect regarding the human. Likewise a context of use decides when a particular word should give what sort of meaning. Take word wall, it means different things when it is used to serve different purposes. DIWAAT KHADI KAR DI, DIWAAR GIRAA DI, DIWAAR DAAL DI, DIWAAR NIKAAL DI, DIWAAR MURAMMAT KAR DI, DIWAAR MARFAAL KAR DI, NAEE DIWAAR KHADI KAR DI waghaira waghaira.
It is time people started to think before they speak rather than speak and then think after some one points out the lack of thinking on their part.
regards and all the best
Dear shamsheer, we daily use same words in various ways to get different meanings acorss. When some one does something wrong we ask, are you a human? When in battle field we ask, are you a man? When we send someone to some one as a messenger, we say yeh mera aadami hai. When we compare genders we say, are you a man? Each time by using word man or human we are trying to emphasis a different aspect regarding the human. Likewise a context of use decides when a particular word should give what sort of meaning. Take word wall, it means different things when it is used to serve different purposes. DIWAAT KHADI KAR DI, DIWAAR GIRAA DI, DIWAAR DAAL DI, DIWAAR NIKAAL DI, DIWAAR MURAMMAT KAR DI, DIWAAR MARFAAL KAR DI, NAEE DIWAAR KHADI KAR DI waghaira waghaira.
It is time people started to think before they speak rather than speak and then think after some one points out the lack of thinking on their part.
regards and all the best
Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?
Read what you have written back to yourself dear wadaich, may be several times and see what you make of it yourself.
rgards and all the best.
Read what you have written back to yourself dear wadaich, may be several times and see what you make of it yourself.
rgards and all the best.
Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?
Dear Raaz, put on your thinking cap, I mean hud? One should not attribute lies to Alah and his messenger ot even others? Please use evidence and arguments to put your point across as you some times do.
regards and all the best
Dear Raaz, put on your thinking cap, I mean hud? One should not attribute lies to Alah and his messenger ot even others? Please use evidence and arguments to put your point across as you some times do.
regards and all the best
Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?
Well it is good if you do not support things without evidence and that is a credit to yourself. Talking sense is the way forward and that means following evidence wherever it leads.
regards and all the best
No , I am not personal, That was just example.
I got you.
Your thoughts are likeWho keeps on running ,but could not go beyond the block.
And your block is Sufi.
Try to come out of this lesson and find out more crap , obviously careful of sufi. I do not support any ism , may be sufiism , Qadyanisim , Sulfism or Hanafi-ism, Shia-ism or Ahle Sunat -Waljamat.
Allah told us to hold Quran and obey Rasool. Allah. Thats all.
Every thing is Crystal clear.
Well it is good if you do not support things without evidence and that is a credit to yourself. Talking sense is the way forward and that means following evidence wherever it leads.
regards and all the best
Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?
Why do not you take a breather and have time to stay away from GAP. With your sincere heart, perform two rakat nafil (as from the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad PBUH, and not the way GAP must have prescribed) and ask Allah to guide you, it will be better to do that in a Masjid. Then with open mind think and try to ponder on the following point. GAP is trying to prove that Prophet Muhammad PBUH was not able to explain to his companions what your GAP is able to decipher after 1400 years. Even imagining this far fetched and frivulous idealogy is quite blasphemous to me and it shakes the very foundation of our deen. No body till the day of judgement can understand the Quran and its message better than the Prophet PBUH and then the Sahaba (whose native language was Arabic). You are following a person who thinks has better wisdom than Sahab-e-Karam who are praised in Quran it self, who believes that Arabic that is not his native language is easier for him to understand than the whole arab world. Who inspite of being openly proclaimed in quran that "verily we have made it easy to understand", claims that Quran is something like a riddle or a hieroglaphic text or coded message that does not mean what it says? Why it was so difficult for Muhammad PBUH to let his companions know that Hudhud is a man, so is shaitan and so are angles? Wasn't it easier to communicate than talking about unseen, un heard, untouched, undeciphered creations? When I see people like you I recall somebody told me in my child hood that "Sab say ziada falsafi jahanum main jain gay".
This is the reason why Quran talks about Eman and momins are referred to as people who have eman. Because eman is the essence of deen that drives a person. In your case you are trying to drive the deen by your acceptable axioms. Do you beleive in Heaven or Hell? Do you believe in the day of judgement? Or you will believe in them when you will see them or you will have complete eman only on the day of judgement? I sincerely request you to think and ask Allah for forgiveness and guidance. May be try to perform an Umrah or Hajj and in the har-rumm ask Allah for the guidance.
Why do not you take a breather and have time to stay away from GAP. With your sincere heart, perform two rakat nafil (as from the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad PBUH, and not the way GAP must have prescribed) and ask Allah to guide you, it will be better to do that in a Masjid. Then with open mind think and try to ponder on the following point. GAP is trying to prove that Prophet Muhammad PBUH was not able to explain to his companions what your GAP is able to decipher after 1400 years. Even imagining this far fetched and frivulous idealogy is quite blasphemous to me and it shakes the very foundation of our deen. No body till the day of judgement can understand the Quran and its message better than the Prophet PBUH and then the Sahaba (whose native language was Arabic). You are following a person who thinks has better wisdom than Sahab-e-Karam who are praised in Quran it self, who believes that Arabic that is not his native language is easier for him to understand than the whole arab world. Who inspite of being openly proclaimed in quran that "verily we have made it easy to understand", claims that Quran is something like a riddle or a hieroglaphic text or coded message that does not mean what it says? Why it was so difficult for Muhammad PBUH to let his companions know that Hudhud is a man, so is shaitan and so are angles? Wasn't it easier to communicate than talking about unseen, un heard, untouched, undeciphered creations? When I see people like you I recall somebody told me in my child hood that "Sab say ziada falsafi jahanum main jain gay".
This is the reason why Quran talks about Eman and momins are referred to as people who have eman. Because eman is the essence of deen that drives a person. In your case you are trying to drive the deen by your acceptable axioms. Do you beleive in Heaven or Hell? Do you believe in the day of judgement? Or you will believe in them when you will see them or you will have complete eman only on the day of judgement? I sincerely request you to think and ask Allah for forgiveness and guidance. May be try to perform an Umrah or Hajj and in the har-rumm ask Allah for the guidance.
Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?
Dear niazi, I explained what a miracle is and what is not a miracle, please familiarize yourself before you get on to fatwa train and crash into something really dangerous. Why not define it yourself as you know it?
As for jews and christians, many of them do not believe in so called miracles, they believe they are childish stories made up by people.
regards and all the best.
Dear niazi, I explained what a miracle is and what is not a miracle, please familiarize yourself before you get on to fatwa train and crash into something really dangerous. Why not define it yourself as you know it?
As for jews and christians, many of them do not believe in so called miracles, they believe they are childish stories made up by people.
regards and all the best.
Last edited:
biomat
Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?
REFERENCE#1)
And when Abraham said (unto his Lord): My lord! Show me how Thou givest life to the dead, He said: Dost thou not believe? Abraham said: Yea, but (I ask) in order that my heart may be at ease. (His Lord) said: Take four of the birds and cause them to incline unto thee, then place a part of them on each hill, then call them, they will come to thee in haste. And know that Allah is Mighty, Wise.
==============
Surah Baqarah verse 260
==================================================
REFERENCE#2)
Do they not see the birds above them with wings outspread and [sometimes] folded in? None holds them [aloft] except the Most Merciful. Indeed He is, of all things, Seeing.
Surah Mulk verse 19
====================================================
REFERENCE#3)
Do you not see that Allah is exalted by whomever is within the heavens and the earth and [by] the birds with wings spread [in flight]? Each [of them] has known his [means of] prayer and exalting [Him], and Allah is Knowing of what they do.
Surah Noor verse 41
================================
REFERENCE#4)
And [make him] a messenger to the Children of Israel, [who will say], 'Indeed I have come to you with a sign from your Lord in that I design for you from clay [that which is] like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah . And I cure the blind and the leper, and I give life to the dead - by permission of Allah . And I inform you of what you eat and what you store in your houses. Indeed in that is a sign for you, if you are believers.
Surah Al-Imran verse 49
=================================
REFERENCE#5)
[The Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, remember My favor upon you and upon your mother when I supported you with the Pure Spirit and you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity; and [remember] when I taught you writing and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and when you designed from clay [what was] like the form of a bird with My permission, then you breathed into it, and it became a bird with My permission; and you healed the blind and the leper with My permission; and when you brought forth the dead with My permission; and when I restrained the Children of Israel from [killing] you when you came to them with clear proofs and those who disbelieved among them said, "This is not but obvious magic."
Surah Al-Maida verse 110
==========================
REFERENCE#6)
And there is no creature on [or within] the earth or bird that flies with its wings except [that they are] communities like you. We have not neglected in the Register a thing. Then unto their Lord they will be gathered.
surah Al-Anaam verse 38
======================================
REFERENCE#7)
And there entered the prison with him two young men. One of them said, "Indeed, I have seen myself [in a dream] pressing wine." The other said, "Indeed, I have seen myself carrying upon my head [some] bread, from which the birds were eating. Inform us of its interpretation; indeed, we see you to be of those who do good."
Surah Yousuf verse 36
=============================
REFERENCE#1)
And when Abraham said (unto his Lord): My lord! Show me how Thou givest life to the dead, He said: Dost thou not believe? Abraham said: Yea, but (I ask) in order that my heart may be at ease. (His Lord) said: Take four of the birds and cause them to incline unto thee, then place a part of them on each hill, then call them, they will come to thee in haste. And know that Allah is Mighty, Wise.
==============
Surah Baqarah verse 260
==================================================
REFERENCE#2)
Do they not see the birds above them with wings outspread and [sometimes] folded in? None holds them [aloft] except the Most Merciful. Indeed He is, of all things, Seeing.
Surah Mulk verse 19
====================================================
REFERENCE#3)
Do you not see that Allah is exalted by whomever is within the heavens and the earth and [by] the birds with wings spread [in flight]? Each [of them] has known his [means of] prayer and exalting [Him], and Allah is Knowing of what they do.
Surah Noor verse 41
================================
REFERENCE#4)
And [make him] a messenger to the Children of Israel, [who will say], 'Indeed I have come to you with a sign from your Lord in that I design for you from clay [that which is] like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah . And I cure the blind and the leper, and I give life to the dead - by permission of Allah . And I inform you of what you eat and what you store in your houses. Indeed in that is a sign for you, if you are believers.
Surah Al-Imran verse 49
=================================
REFERENCE#5)
[The Day] when Allah will say, "O Jesus, Son of Mary, remember My favor upon you and upon your mother when I supported you with the Pure Spirit and you spoke to the people in the cradle and in maturity; and [remember] when I taught you writing and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and when you designed from clay [what was] like the form of a bird with My permission, then you breathed into it, and it became a bird with My permission; and you healed the blind and the leper with My permission; and when you brought forth the dead with My permission; and when I restrained the Children of Israel from [killing] you when you came to them with clear proofs and those who disbelieved among them said, "This is not but obvious magic."
Surah Al-Maida verse 110
==========================
REFERENCE#6)
And there is no creature on [or within] the earth or bird that flies with its wings except [that they are] communities like you. We have not neglected in the Register a thing. Then unto their Lord they will be gathered.
surah Al-Anaam verse 38
======================================
REFERENCE#7)
And there entered the prison with him two young men. One of them said, "Indeed, I have seen myself [in a dream] pressing wine." The other said, "Indeed, I have seen myself carrying upon my head [some] bread, from which the birds were eating. Inform us of its interpretation; indeed, we see you to be of those who do good."
Surah Yousuf verse 36
=============================
Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?
Hope you are not bundling me with them as well, dear Abdul Allah?
Hope you are not bundling me with them as well, dear Abdul Allah?
biomat
Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?
REFERENCE#8)
REFERENCE#8)
O two companions of prison, as for one of you, he will give drink to his master of wine; but as for the other, he will be crucified, and the birds will eat from his head. The matter has been decreed about which you both inquire."
Surah Yousuf verse 41
=============================
REFERENCE#9)
Do they not see the birds controlled in the atmosphere of the sky? None holds them up except Allah . Indeed in that are signs for a people who believe.
Surah Al-Namal verse 79
======================================
REFERENCE#10)
And We gave understanding of the case to Solomon, and to each [of them] We gave judgement and knowledge. And We subjected the mountains to exalt [Us], along with David and [also] the birds. And We were doing [that].
Surah Al-Umbiya verse 79
=========================================
Do they not see the birds controlled in the atmosphere of the sky? None holds them up except Allah . Indeed in that are signs for a people who believe.
Surah Al-Namal verse 79
======================================
REFERENCE#11)
Inclining [only] to Allah , not associating [anything] with Him. And he who associates with Allah - it is as though he had fallen from the sky and was snatched by the birds or the wind carried him down into a remote place.
Surah Al-Hajj verse 31
Surah Yousuf verse 41
=============================
REFERENCE#9)
Do they not see the birds controlled in the atmosphere of the sky? None holds them up except Allah . Indeed in that are signs for a people who believe.
Surah Al-Namal verse 79
======================================
REFERENCE#10)
And We gave understanding of the case to Solomon, and to each [of them] We gave judgement and knowledge. And We subjected the mountains to exalt [Us], along with David and [also] the birds. And We were doing [that].
Surah Al-Umbiya verse 79
=========================================
Do they not see the birds controlled in the atmosphere of the sky? None holds them up except Allah . Indeed in that are signs for a people who believe.
Surah Al-Namal verse 79
======================================
REFERENCE#11)
Inclining [only] to Allah , not associating [anything] with Him. And he who associates with Allah - it is as though he had fallen from the sky and was snatched by the birds or the wind carried him down into a remote place.
Surah Al-Hajj verse 31
biomat
Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?
REFERENCE#12)
And We certainly gave David from Us bounty. [We said], "O mountains, repeat [Our] praises with him, and the birds [as well]." And We made pliable for him iron,
Surah Saba verse 10
==========================================
REFERENCE#13)
Indeed, We subjected the mountains [to praise] with him, exalting [ Allah ] in the [late] afternoon and [after] sunrise.
And the birds were assembled, all with him repeating [praises]
And We strengthened his kingdom and gave him wisdom and discernment in speech.
Surah Saad verse 18,19,20
==============================
And We certainly gave David from Us bounty. [We said], "O mountains, repeat [Our] praises with him, and the birds [as well]." And We made pliable for him iron,
Surah Saba verse 10
==========================================
REFERENCE#14)
And He sent against them birds in flocks
Surah Feel verse 3
=====================================
REFERENCE#12)
And We certainly gave David from Us bounty. [We said], "O mountains, repeat [Our] praises with him, and the birds [as well]." And We made pliable for him iron,
Surah Saba verse 10
==========================================
REFERENCE#13)
Indeed, We subjected the mountains [to praise] with him, exalting [ Allah ] in the [late] afternoon and [after] sunrise.
And the birds were assembled, all with him repeating [praises]
And We strengthened his kingdom and gave him wisdom and discernment in speech.
Surah Saad verse 18,19,20
==============================
And We certainly gave David from Us bounty. [We said], "O mountains, repeat [Our] praises with him, and the birds [as well]." And We made pliable for him iron,
Surah Saba verse 10
==========================================
REFERENCE#14)
And He sent against them birds in flocks
Surah Feel verse 3
=====================================
biomat
Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?
Dear Mughal1
I have placed 14 references discussing about AL-TAAIR & BIRDS.. Do read them carefully & dont waste your energies on replying to others for now please. Will u stick to my references please for some time & stick to TOPIC HUD HUD IS HUMAN...
Also please do read carefully reference#14.. ABABEEL were birds or some HUMANS (workers, engineers, teachers etc which class as per your understanding).. But please do reply about ABABEEL issue in last when you have established TRUE ARABIC GRAMMER RULE for identifying AL-TAIR to be HUMAN or BIRD.. WHERE WE SHOULD USE HUMAN & WHERE BIRD..
Jaza-k-ALLAH.
Dear Mughal1
I have placed 14 references discussing about AL-TAAIR & BIRDS.. Do read them carefully & dont waste your energies on replying to others for now please. Will u stick to my references please for some time & stick to TOPIC HUD HUD IS HUMAN...
Also please do read carefully reference#14.. ABABEEL were birds or some HUMANS (workers, engineers, teachers etc which class as per your understanding).. But please do reply about ABABEEL issue in last when you have established TRUE ARABIC GRAMMER RULE for identifying AL-TAIR to be HUMAN or BIRD.. WHERE WE SHOULD USE HUMAN & WHERE BIRD..
Jaza-k-ALLAH.
Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?
Dear biomat, I was not born yesterday and of course I have not spent my life sleeping. If you read my posts you will find that I come from brelvi-sunni background. I have been with deobandies, tableeghies, shias, wahabies, sufies, peers fakeers, scientists etc. This actually should be very obvious from my posts. There is huge difference between my replies to any of you and your posts. It should be enough to prove some point.
I am not here to be pedantic but seeing situation of our people we need to learn a lot if we are going to mean anything or if we are going to have any future. I am therefore trying to share whatever I know in order to help people here educate themselves.
It is property of knowledge that it convinces people all by itself. Spreading knowledge is helping mankind to be good human beings and thereby helps world to be a better place. Make beliefs is our problem that is very deep rooted and and very wide spread. Besides ruling elite is another kind of problem that needs to be taken care of but that is not going to happen so long as our make beliefs keep us sleeping like drug addicts.
So it is important that our people start coming out of the box and see beyond themselves. That will most definitely help people understand the quran and islam better.
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?50607-Pakistan-religion-secularism-amp-tribalism/page2
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...en-plz!-Nice-Column-by-Orya-Maqbool-Jan/page5
regards and all the best.
Dear biomat, I was not born yesterday and of course I have not spent my life sleeping. If you read my posts you will find that I come from brelvi-sunni background. I have been with deobandies, tableeghies, shias, wahabies, sufies, peers fakeers, scientists etc. This actually should be very obvious from my posts. There is huge difference between my replies to any of you and your posts. It should be enough to prove some point.
I am not here to be pedantic but seeing situation of our people we need to learn a lot if we are going to mean anything or if we are going to have any future. I am therefore trying to share whatever I know in order to help people here educate themselves.
It is property of knowledge that it convinces people all by itself. Spreading knowledge is helping mankind to be good human beings and thereby helps world to be a better place. Make beliefs is our problem that is very deep rooted and and very wide spread. Besides ruling elite is another kind of problem that needs to be taken care of but that is not going to happen so long as our make beliefs keep us sleeping like drug addicts.
So it is important that our people start coming out of the box and see beyond themselves. That will most definitely help people understand the quran and islam better.
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?50607-Pakistan-religion-secularism-amp-tribalism/page2
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...en-plz!-Nice-Column-by-Orya-Maqbool-Jan/page5
regards and all the best.
Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?
I would support your sentiments dear Raaz but I have not come across better scholars than g a parwez. A giant of man in my time. All due to people like sir seyyid, iqbal and jinnah. Actually we all judge based upon our current state of our own knowledge but good thing is to keep learning and never think anything is concrete till you really have something that is really concrete.
I suggest that people learn arabic and use basic dictionaries from one language to another but also use same language dictionaries that emphasis uses of words in various ways. This is where I find the problem is because people are not aware of various meanings of words and their uses. All languages use same word for different meanings as well as different words to give same meanings. This is very very important point. Word to word translations are useless because they make no sense see translation by shah abdul qaadir sb and shah rafi uddeen sb and various others.
The rendering of words for words does not emphasis the aspects in words that are meant in the verses in their prper contexts. This is the reason we are having this very discussion because people are not familiar about other uses of words so they feel compelled to keep using the same even though they give rise to wrong sense.
Even word for word translation would need proper use of words and that would again depend on proper understanding of the quranic text before one could put the right word in place of word. So there is no such thing as proper translation rather the translation is also interpretation. In fact even arabs will have to interpret the quranic text when it comes to making sense of it.
regards and all the best.
I would support your sentiments dear Raaz but I have not come across better scholars than g a parwez. A giant of man in my time. All due to people like sir seyyid, iqbal and jinnah. Actually we all judge based upon our current state of our own knowledge but good thing is to keep learning and never think anything is concrete till you really have something that is really concrete.
I suggest that people learn arabic and use basic dictionaries from one language to another but also use same language dictionaries that emphasis uses of words in various ways. This is where I find the problem is because people are not aware of various meanings of words and their uses. All languages use same word for different meanings as well as different words to give same meanings. This is very very important point. Word to word translations are useless because they make no sense see translation by shah abdul qaadir sb and shah rafi uddeen sb and various others.
The rendering of words for words does not emphasis the aspects in words that are meant in the verses in their prper contexts. This is the reason we are having this very discussion because people are not familiar about other uses of words so they feel compelled to keep using the same even though they give rise to wrong sense.
Even word for word translation would need proper use of words and that would again depend on proper understanding of the quranic text before one could put the right word in place of word. So there is no such thing as proper translation rather the translation is also interpretation. In fact even arabs will have to interpret the quranic text when it comes to making sense of it.
regards and all the best.
Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?
Dear biomat, please refer to my replies already given to others explaining uses of same words for diffeent meanings and different words for the very same meanings.
Dear biomat, please refer to my replies already given to others explaining uses of same words for diffeent meanings and different words for the very same meanings.
Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?
Thank goodness Quran is in Arabic otherwise you would have made it a Latino-Anglosaxon bible. I am waiting to see your proof and my proof is the verse which is in Arabic itself and all Arab speaking people agree with the translation as its just not a translation but also a transliteration of the verse. I am looking forward for you to provide evidence to support your claim which really can be believed. Is there any difference between Naseem Hijazi novels and your bed time stories, I don't think so.
Thank goodness Quran is in Arabic otherwise you would have made it a Latino-Anglosaxon bible. I am waiting to see your proof and my proof is the verse which is in Arabic itself and all Arab speaking people agree with the translation as its just not a translation but also a transliteration of the verse. I am looking forward for you to provide evidence to support your claim which really can be believed. Is there any difference between Naseem Hijazi novels and your bed time stories, I don't think so.
Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?
Dear biomat you do not need to give references because I usually know them. The problem is not with references and grammar but proper use and sense of understanding. It is rules of wisdom and logic that people lack because they cannot put two and two together.
I do not like challenging moods or modes because that shows arrogance and our purpose here is not to alienate each other but to try and see the point of each other in a helpful way. If we fail there is nothing wrong with that so long as we disagree respectfully.
As for word taair is concerned, it is used in the quran in sense of bad luck, ill omen or flight as well. If your point is that word tair cannot mean anything other than bird with feather then I can give you verses of the quran to think about. However, if you agree that taair does mean other things as well then disagreement can be narrowed down to context.
I also give you links to show you what other people make of the quran from our wrong translations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinn
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/chrono.htm
This is why if we want to help sensible people to join us we will have to become sensible ourselves. So far atheism is on the increase and is beginning to enter our own houses. Our duty is not only to give people copies of the quran with silly translations but to explain to people things in a way that is sensible or our ignorance will end up ruining us in not too far future. Logic and rationality is ruling the world and if we do not organise and face the challenges then soon our coming generation will be part of atheist world. Our make beliefs will not be able to save us from God or humanity.
It is therefore a good idea to help ourselves and familiarize ourselves with the divine scripture in light of real world, logic and rationality.
Finally, would you please translate for me words TAIRAN ABAABEEL? Thanks. O just in case you need ref 105/3, surah al feel. Make sure that word tair means bird and nothing else.
regards and all the best
Dear biomat you do not need to give references because I usually know them. The problem is not with references and grammar but proper use and sense of understanding. It is rules of wisdom and logic that people lack because they cannot put two and two together.
I do not like challenging moods or modes because that shows arrogance and our purpose here is not to alienate each other but to try and see the point of each other in a helpful way. If we fail there is nothing wrong with that so long as we disagree respectfully.
As for word taair is concerned, it is used in the quran in sense of bad luck, ill omen or flight as well. If your point is that word tair cannot mean anything other than bird with feather then I can give you verses of the quran to think about. However, if you agree that taair does mean other things as well then disagreement can be narrowed down to context.
I also give you links to show you what other people make of the quran from our wrong translations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jinn
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/chrono.htm
This is why if we want to help sensible people to join us we will have to become sensible ourselves. So far atheism is on the increase and is beginning to enter our own houses. Our duty is not only to give people copies of the quran with silly translations but to explain to people things in a way that is sensible or our ignorance will end up ruining us in not too far future. Logic and rationality is ruling the world and if we do not organise and face the challenges then soon our coming generation will be part of atheist world. Our make beliefs will not be able to save us from God or humanity.
It is therefore a good idea to help ourselves and familiarize ourselves with the divine scripture in light of real world, logic and rationality.
Finally, would you please translate for me words TAIRAN ABAABEEL? Thanks. O just in case you need ref 105/3, surah al feel. Make sure that word tair means bird and nothing else.
regards and all the best
Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?
وَتَفَقَّدَ الطَّيْرَ فَقَالَ مَا لِيَ لَا أَرَى الْهُدْهُدَ أَمْ كَانَ مِنَ الْغَائِبِينَ ⇨ Transliteration Watafaqqada alttayra faqala ma liya la ara alhudhuda am kana mina algha-ibeena ⇨
Generally Accepted Translations of the Meaning
Muhammad Asad And [one day] he looked in vain for [a particular one of] the birds; and so he said: How is it that I do not see the hoopoe? Or could he be among the absent? ⇨ M. M. Pickthall And he sought among the birds and said: How is it that I see not the hoopoe, or is he among the absent? ⇨ Shakir And he reviewed the birds, then said: How is it I see not the hoopoe or is it that he is of the absentees? ⇨ Yusuf Ali And he took a muster of the Birds; and he said: "Why is it I see not the Hoopoe? Or is he among the absentees? ⇨ Wahiduddin Khan Then Solomon inspected the birds, and said, How is it that I do not see the hoopoe? Is he absent then? ⇨ [Al-Muntakhab] And he inspected the birds and took a muster of them, only to find one missing, he said: "Why do I not see the hoopoe or has he been among the absentees!" (A bird of the family upupidae especially the typical upupa epops, conspicuous by its variegated plumage and large erectile crest). ⇨ [Progressive Muslims] And he inspected the birds, then said: "Why do I not see the hoopoe, or is he among those absent" ⇨ Abdel Haleem Solomon inspected the birds and said, ‘Why do I not see the hoopoe? Is he absent? ⇨ Abdul Majid Daryabadi And he sought after the birds and said: what aileth me that I see not the hoopoe; is he among the absentees? ⇨ Ahmed Ali And he seeked/searched the bird/birds , so he said: "Why (it is) not for me, I do not see the hoopoe bird/clucking bird , or he was from the absent? I will torture him strong (severe) torture." ⇨ Aisha Bewley He inspected the birds and said, ‘How is it that I do not see the hoopoe? Or is it absent without leave? ⇨ Ali nal (On another occasion) he inspected the birds and said: "How is it that I cannot see the hoopoe? Or is he among the absentees? ⇨ Ali Quli Qara'i [One day] he reviewed the birds, and said, ‘Why do I not see the hoopoe? Or is he absent?’ ⇨ Amatul Rahman Omar And (once) he reviewed the birds and the (cavalry of) swift running horses and said, `How is it that I do not see (my officer named) Hudhud? Is he deliberately absent? ⇨ Hamid S. Aziz And he reviewed the birds, and said, "How is it that I see not the hoopoe (perhaps used as a spy, messenger or observer or symbolizing one)? Is he then amongst the absent? ⇨ Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali And he reviewed the birds; then he said, "what is it with me that I do not see the hoopoe? Or is he among the absent? ⇨ Muhammad Sarwar (Solomon) inspected the birds and said, "How is it that I cannot see the hoopoe. Is he absent? ⇨ Muhammad Taqi Usmani And (once) he (Sulaiman) checked the birds and said, .How is it with me that I do not see the hudhud (hoopoe)? Rather he has disappeared. ⇨ Shabbir Ahmed (Leaving the peaceful tribe of An-Naml alone, Solomon marched forward.) As he examined the cavalry, he said, "How is it that I do not see the commander ⇨ Syed Vickar Ahamed And he took a troop of the birds, and he said: "Why is it I see not the Hoopoe? (A bird with feathers like a crown on its head ) or is he from those absent? ⇨ Umm Muhammad (Sahih International) And he took attendance of the birds and said, "Why do I not see the hoopoe - or is he among the absent? ⇨ Farook Malik He took a roll call of the birds and said: "I do not see the hoopoe, where is he? How could he be absent? ⇨ Dr. Munir Munshey (At another time) while inspecting a flock of birds, he said, "What is wrong? I do not see the swan here! Is he absent?" ⇨ Tahir-ul-Qadri Mohammad And he sought among the birds and said: How is it that I do not see the crown-bird, or is he among the absent? ⇨
Controversial, deprecated, or status undetermined works
Bijan Moeinian Once he summoned all birds in his army. When he took the attendance, he realized that the Hoopoe was absent. ⇨ Faridul Haque And he surveyed the birds – he therefore said, “What is to me that I do not see the Hudhud (hoopoe), or is he really absent?” ⇨ Hasan Al-Fatih Qaribullah He reviewed the birds and said: 'Why is it that I do not see the hoopoe here? Or is he among the absent? ⇨ Maulana Muhammad Ali And he reviewed the birds, then said: How is it I see not Hudhud, or is it that he is one of the absentees? ⇨ Muhammad Ahmed - Samira When he reviewed the Tair, he said: "How is it I do not see Hud-hud? Is he absent? ⇨ Sher Ali And he reviewed the birds and said, `How is it that I do not see Hudhud? Is he deliberately absent? ⇨ Yusuf Ali (org.) And he took a muster of the Birds; and he said: "Why is it I see not the Hoopoe? Or is he among the absentees? ⇨ Rashad Khalifa He inspected the birds, and noted: "Why do I not see the hoopoe? Why is he missing? ⇨ Hilali & Khan He inspected the birds, and said: "What is the matter that I see not the hoopoe? Or is he among the absentees? ⇨
Non-Muslim and/or Orientalist works
Arthur John Arberry And he reviewed the birds; then he said, 'How is it with me, that I do not see the hoopoe? Or is he among the absent? ⇨ Edward Henry Palmer And he reviewed the birds, and said, 'How is it I see not the hoopoe? is he then amongst the absent? ⇨ George Sale And he viewed the birds, and said, what is the reason that I see not the lapwing? Is she absent? ⇨ John Medows Rodwell And he reviewed the birds, and said, "How is it that I see not the lapwing? Is it one of the absent?
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وَتَفَقَّدَ الطَّيْرَ فَقَالَ مَا لِيَ لَا أَرَى الْهُدْهُدَ أَمْ كَانَ مِنَ الْغَائِبِينَ ⇨ Transliteration Watafaqqada alttayra faqala ma liya la ara alhudhuda am kana mina algha-ibeena ⇨
Generally Accepted Translations of the Meaning
Muhammad Asad And [one day] he looked in vain for [a particular one of] the birds; and so he said: How is it that I do not see the hoopoe? Or could he be among the absent? ⇨ M. M. Pickthall And he sought among the birds and said: How is it that I see not the hoopoe, or is he among the absent? ⇨ Shakir And he reviewed the birds, then said: How is it I see not the hoopoe or is it that he is of the absentees? ⇨ Yusuf Ali And he took a muster of the Birds; and he said: "Why is it I see not the Hoopoe? Or is he among the absentees? ⇨ Wahiduddin Khan Then Solomon inspected the birds, and said, How is it that I do not see the hoopoe? Is he absent then? ⇨ [Al-Muntakhab] And he inspected the birds and took a muster of them, only to find one missing, he said: "Why do I not see the hoopoe or has he been among the absentees!" (A bird of the family upupidae especially the typical upupa epops, conspicuous by its variegated plumage and large erectile crest). ⇨ [Progressive Muslims] And he inspected the birds, then said: "Why do I not see the hoopoe, or is he among those absent" ⇨ Abdel Haleem Solomon inspected the birds and said, ‘Why do I not see the hoopoe? Is he absent? ⇨ Abdul Majid Daryabadi And he sought after the birds and said: what aileth me that I see not the hoopoe; is he among the absentees? ⇨ Ahmed Ali And he seeked/searched the bird/birds , so he said: "Why (it is) not for me, I do not see the hoopoe bird/clucking bird , or he was from the absent? I will torture him strong (severe) torture." ⇨ Aisha Bewley He inspected the birds and said, ‘How is it that I do not see the hoopoe? Or is it absent without leave? ⇨ Ali nal (On another occasion) he inspected the birds and said: "How is it that I cannot see the hoopoe? Or is he among the absentees? ⇨ Ali Quli Qara'i [One day] he reviewed the birds, and said, ‘Why do I not see the hoopoe? Or is he absent?’ ⇨ Amatul Rahman Omar And (once) he reviewed the birds and the (cavalry of) swift running horses and said, `How is it that I do not see (my officer named) Hudhud? Is he deliberately absent? ⇨ Hamid S. Aziz And he reviewed the birds, and said, "How is it that I see not the hoopoe (perhaps used as a spy, messenger or observer or symbolizing one)? Is he then amongst the absent? ⇨ Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali And he reviewed the birds; then he said, "what is it with me that I do not see the hoopoe? Or is he among the absent? ⇨ Muhammad Sarwar (Solomon) inspected the birds and said, "How is it that I cannot see the hoopoe. Is he absent? ⇨ Muhammad Taqi Usmani And (once) he (Sulaiman) checked the birds and said, .How is it with me that I do not see the hudhud (hoopoe)? Rather he has disappeared. ⇨ Shabbir Ahmed (Leaving the peaceful tribe of An-Naml alone, Solomon marched forward.) As he examined the cavalry, he said, "How is it that I do not see the commander ⇨ Syed Vickar Ahamed And he took a troop of the birds, and he said: "Why is it I see not the Hoopoe? (A bird with feathers like a crown on its head ) or is he from those absent? ⇨ Umm Muhammad (Sahih International) And he took attendance of the birds and said, "Why do I not see the hoopoe - or is he among the absent? ⇨ Farook Malik He took a roll call of the birds and said: "I do not see the hoopoe, where is he? How could he be absent? ⇨ Dr. Munir Munshey (At another time) while inspecting a flock of birds, he said, "What is wrong? I do not see the swan here! Is he absent?" ⇨ Tahir-ul-Qadri Mohammad And he sought among the birds and said: How is it that I do not see the crown-bird, or is he among the absent? ⇨
Controversial, deprecated, or status undetermined works
Bijan Moeinian Once he summoned all birds in his army. When he took the attendance, he realized that the Hoopoe was absent. ⇨ Faridul Haque And he surveyed the birds – he therefore said, “What is to me that I do not see the Hudhud (hoopoe), or is he really absent?” ⇨ Hasan Al-Fatih Qaribullah He reviewed the birds and said: 'Why is it that I do not see the hoopoe here? Or is he among the absent? ⇨ Maulana Muhammad Ali And he reviewed the birds, then said: How is it I see not Hudhud, or is it that he is one of the absentees? ⇨ Muhammad Ahmed - Samira When he reviewed the Tair, he said: "How is it I do not see Hud-hud? Is he absent? ⇨ Sher Ali And he reviewed the birds and said, `How is it that I do not see Hudhud? Is he deliberately absent? ⇨ Yusuf Ali (org.) And he took a muster of the Birds; and he said: "Why is it I see not the Hoopoe? Or is he among the absentees? ⇨ Rashad Khalifa He inspected the birds, and noted: "Why do I not see the hoopoe? Why is he missing? ⇨ Hilali & Khan He inspected the birds, and said: "What is the matter that I see not the hoopoe? Or is he among the absentees? ⇨
Non-Muslim and/or Orientalist works
Arthur John Arberry And he reviewed the birds; then he said, 'How is it with me, that I do not see the hoopoe? Or is he among the absent? ⇨ Edward Henry Palmer And he reviewed the birds, and said, 'How is it I see not the hoopoe? is he then amongst the absent? ⇨ George Sale And he viewed the birds, and said, what is the reason that I see not the lapwing? Is she absent? ⇨ John Medows Rodwell And he reviewed the birds, and said, "How is it that I see not the lapwing? Is it one of the absent?
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