Hudhuda insaan ya parinda?

[Abdul Allah]

Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?

“And will make him a Messenger to the children of Israel (to say): ‘I come to you with a Sign from your Lord, which is, that I will fashion out for you a creation out of clay after the manner of a bird, then I will breathe into it a new spirit and it will become a soaring being by the command of Allah; and I will heal the night-blind and the leprous, and I will quicken the dead, by the command of Allah; and I will announce to you what you will eat and what you will store up in your houses. Surely, therein is a Sign for you, if you be believers."(3:50)

Can you please show me the BIRD fashioned by Jesus(as) and the BIRD fashioned Allah Almighty? Or kitnay Murdoon ko Hazrat Isa(as) ne Zinda kia? Kia jab Hazrat Isa(as) aasaman se wapiss aingay to murdoon ko zinda karaingay? Please explain how you do interpret this.

I remember that someone asked a Maulana Sahib about this matter. He asked Maulana Sahib: can you please show us the difference between bird made by Isa(as) and the bird made by Allah? Maulana Sahib replied in hurry - wo sarre mill mull gai ne... Lol!

Logic: like Mughal1 said: "whatever cannot be explained or reproduced in any respect does not come under laws of nature."

Does this Question of your have any thing to do with the discussion?

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?

Btw. Still waiting information about your African friend. ;-)

by the way
I am still waiting for you answer about

That how you can follow a person who can not understand the wahi of Allah. who ask GAIR NABI HINDU Boy to translate wahi of Allah for him. And remain in doubt about the translation done by that boy and again ask another GAIR Nabi to translate the wahi for him . He even do not know that what is the language of Wahi.
OMG

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?

Bring solid argument from Quran to counter ours. Otherwise it would "he say, she say" stuff.

I have answered it using QURAN.
but you are not willing to answer it directly and with logic.
READ AGAIN.
The Ayath that says Parindoon ke zubaan sikhai gai clearly shows that The part of Sura actually talk about PARINDA .

also your logic in 2160 foot note that Hazrat Suleman can not be angry with a bird.

Well you failed to see that it said Zibah karoon ga.
Now think (i have less hope that you will) that Zibah karoon ga? is about a MAN or a BIRD.

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?

[MENTION=9105]Ehraz[/MENTION]

for you

Tafsir of Ibn Kathir
(I will surely punish him with a severe torment) Al-A`mash said, narrating from Al-Minhal bin `Amr from Sa`id that Ibn `Abbas said: "He meant, by plucking his feathers.'' `Abdullah bin Shaddad said: "By plucking his feathers and exposing him to the sun.'' This was also the view of more than one of the Salaf, that it means plucking his feathers and leaving him exposed to be eaten by ants.
You might say oh i do not believe on ibn kathir

Well you can not deny tafsir of A MUJADID for the list of Mujadid on your website.
Imam Jilaludin
Tafsir al-Jalalayn
{ وَتَفَقَّدَ ٱلطَّيْرَ فَقَالَ مَالِيَ لاَ أَرَى ٱلْهُدْهُدَ أَمْ كَانَ مِنَ ٱلْغَآئِبِينَ **

And he reviewed the birds, to see the hoopoe — which would locate water beneath the ground and indicate its location by pecking at it, whereupon the devils would extract it, for Solomon required it for when he prayed; but he could not see him — then he said, ‘Why is it that I do not see the hoopoe?, in other words, is there something preventing me from seeing him? Or is he among the absent?, and so I cannot see him because he is absent?’ And when he became certain [of the hoopoe’s absence],


Also please search about MIGRATION habits of hoopoe and woodpecker also. that is clearly against what is in 2160 footnote

 

[Raaz]

Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?

=====================
Jaza-k-ALLAH bhai Raaz & Assalam-o-alaikum
First REJECT HADEETHS as man made, then DISCUSS new topic, WRONG

TAFASEERS, then discuss WRONG TRANSLATION, in last discuss THIS QURAN

IS IN THIS FORM BY HAZRAT USMAN (RA) so all ISLAM IS FAKE..

Trust me there are tons of websites & blogs spreading these so called SELF

TAUGHT SCHOLARS OF ISLAM. Creating misconceptions in YOUNG MIND & thus make them AETHIEST..

:jazak:

Yes brother , u r right.

Read the post by Abdul Allah also, and you will notice how they twisted the translation of Quran. as they wnt.

Because they could not change the Quran , they changed the meanings.

Qadyanies and Pervezies, all doing this.

Allah Tala made Quran so somple that a Arabic Badoo coud understand it. There is no complication in iit.

And the language is saved too . It is the biggest miracle.

They changed the word نمل to woman, u could check it means Ants. and Surah name is Surah Naml.

May Allah bless us the right path. Aameen.

 

[Mughal1]

Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?

I think problem we have here is two fold. One that we do not have proper translations and interpretations of the quran and the other that we are not even bothered to have one.

Another problem is that we are not bothered to think things through thoroughly.

Looking at stories of the prophets Dawud and Sulemaan we need to think logically and be prepared to contextualize them.

The context is straight forward. The quran is talking about handling of state affairs as heads of state and government. Allah has given both the father and the son all the knowledge they needed to run the divine kingdom under their jurisdictions properly.

The divine servant has to ensure that he manages people and resources and the land properly. This needs the maximum possible skills and expertise in the field. The chief needs to ensure that chiefs under him also are doing their job properly as well as the masses in the land. If we read story of prophet joseph it becomes very clear.

The most important thing in a kingdom is its armed force not birds of feathers. How much of our daily life depends on knowing what birds are up to as nations?

The words used in the quran need to be understood in their proper contexts because they have various meanings.

Let us take some words just for exmple. Word MANTAQ is from root NOON, TWAA and QAAF. It means language or ability of communication, logic or impression, expression or philosophy etc.

In urdu we say tumhen kis zubaan main samjhaon. In english, which language do you understand. LAATUN KI ZUBAAN SE SAMJHAON YAA HAATUN KI ZUBAAN SE.

Likewise there is formal language and informal language. General language and a language used in a particular field of language. HUKOOMAT KI ZUBAAN, FAUJ KI ZUBAAN, HATHYAARUN KI ZUBAAN, KACHEHRI KI ZUBAAN, KAMZOR KI ZUBAAN, TAAQATWAR KI ZUBAAN. AFSAROON KI ZUBAAN, PADE LIKHE LOGOON KI ZUBAAN, AAM LOGOON KI ZUBAAN waghaira waghaira.

This proves beyond a shadow of doubt that language does not mean just speech by tongue from a human mouth. It also means terminology of a particular field eg scientific language. Biology terms or chemistry terms. ARMY language means terminology used in the army.


Word TAAIR is from root TWAA, YAA and RAA. It means omen, destination, ultimate height, soaring bird, something that acts like a bird, steed/s, cavalry, something that achieves its objective with utmost perfection that cannot be surpassed etc etc.

Allah tells us that the prophets were given of everything. We know that they were not given of everything in its meanings but in sense of context in which the quran is talking ie purpose wise. They were given the wisdom for serving their people within that jurisdiction. They knew how to use people, land and resources properly.

This means they needed clever people ie experts or well trained people for all things a kingdom needs eg farmers, engineers, administrators, teachers, judges, armed forces and officers etc etc.

This also explains what jinn and shiyateen mean when read in context.

Jinn also means clever person who can cover a particular field of knowledge. Word SHAITAAN is also used in this sense ie sharaarti or tricky. Dare devil.

This makes it clear for anyone the context so all words with multiple meanings can now be seen to make sense only in a particular way that fits the context.

Prophet solomon used to run shipping so he ought to have diving experts and shipping engineers and other ship workers.

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?

I think problem we have here is two fold. One that we do not have proper translations and interpretations of the quran and the other that we are not even bothered to have one.

Another problem is that we are not bothered to think things through thoroughly.

Looking at stories of the prophets Dawud and Sulemaan we need to think logically and be prepared to contextualize them.

The context is straight forward. The quran is talking about handling of state affairs as heads of state and government. Allah has given both the father and the son all the knowledge they needed to run the divine kingdom under their jurisdictions properly.

The divine servant has to ensure that he manages people and resources and the land properly. This needs the maximum possible skills and expertise in the field. The chief needs to ensure that chiefs under him also are doing their job properly as well as the masses in the land. If we read story of prophet joseph it becomes very clear.

The most important thing in a kingdom is its armed force not birds of feathers. How much of our daily life depends on knowing what birds are up to as nations?

The words used in the quran need to be understood in their proper contexts because they have various meanings.

Let us take some words just for exmple. Word MANTAQ is from root NOON, TWAA and QAAF. It means language or ability of communication, logic or impression, expression or philosophy etc.

In urdu we say tumhen kis zubaan main samjhaon. In english, which language do you understand. LAATUN KI ZUBAAN SE SAMJHAON YAA HAATUN KI ZUBAAN SE.

Likewise there is formal language and informal language. General language and a language used in a particular field of language. HUKOOMAT KI ZUBAAN, FAUJ KI ZUBAAN, HATHYAARUN KI ZUBAAN, KACHEHRI KI ZUBAAN, KAMZOR KI ZUBAAN, TAAQATWAR KI ZUBAAN. AFSAROON KI ZUBAAN, PADE LIKHE LOGOON KI ZUBAAN, AAM LOGOON KI ZUBAAN waghaira waghaira.

This proves beyond a shadow of doubt that language does not mean just speech by tongue from a human mouth. It also means terminology of a particular field eg scientific language. Biology terms or chemistry terms. ARMY language means terminology used in the army.


Word TAAIR is from root TWAA, YAA and RAA. It means omen, destination, ultimate height, soaring bird, something that acts like a bird, steed/s, cavalry, something that achieves its objective with utmost perfection that cannot be surpassed etc etc.

Allah tells us that the prophets were given of everything. We know that they were not given of everything in its meanings but in sense of context in which the quran is talking ie purpose wise. They were given the wisdom for serving their people within that jurisdiction. They knew how to use people, land and resources properly.

This means they needed clever people ie experts or well trained people for all things a kingdom needs eg farmers, engineers, administrators, teachers, judges, armed forces and officers etc etc.

This also explains what jinn and shiyateen mean when read in context.

Jinn also means clever person who can cover a particular field of knowledge. Word SHAITAAN is also used in this sense ie sharaarti or tricky. Dare devil.

This makes it clear for anyone the context so all words with multiple meanings can now be seen to make sense only in a particular way that fits the context.

Prophet solomon used to run shipping so he ought to have diving experts and shipping engineers and other ship workers.

I believe on Quran
Not on imagination of some story writer

 

[Ehraz]

Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?

[MENTION=9105]Ehraz[/MENTION]

for you

Tafsir of Ibn Kathir
(I will surely punish him with a severe torment) Al-A`mash said, narrating from Al-Minhal bin `Amr from Sa`id that Ibn `Abbas said: "He meant, by plucking his feathers.'' `Abdullah bin Shaddad said: "By plucking his feathers and exposing him to the sun.'' This was also the view of more than one of the Salaf, that it means plucking his feathers and leaving him exposed to be eaten by ants.
You might say oh i do not believe on ibn kathir

Well you can not deny tafsir of A MUJADID for the list of Mujadid on your website.
Imam Jilaludin
Tafsir al-Jalalayn
{ وَتَفَقَّدَ ٱلطَّيْرَ فَقَالَ مَالِيَ لاَ أَرَى ٱلْهُدْهُدَ أَمْ كَانَ مِنَ ٱلْغَآئِبِينَ **

And he reviewed the birds, to see the hoopoe — which would locate water beneath the ground and indicate its location by pecking at it, whereupon the devils would extract it, for Solomon required it for when he prayed; but he could not see him — then he said, ‘Why is it that I do not see the hoopoe?, in other words, is there something preventing me from seeing him? Or is he among the absent?, and so I cannot see him because he is absent?’ And when he became certain [of the hoopoe’s absence],

Also please search about MIGRATION habits of hoopoe and woodpecker also. that is clearly against what is in 2160 footnote

This is your understand, and not mine. For me it doesn't make any sense. Read 2161 and 2162. Why should Solomon punish a bird? Only because it was absent? Your assumption of a bird is irrational. Ibn Kathir tafseer is well known to me. I read his tafseer about Isa making dead people alive.

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?

This is your understand, and not mine. For me it doesn't make any sense. Read 2161 and 2162. Why should Solomon punish a bird? Only because it was absent? Your assumption of a bird is irrational. Ibn Kathir tafseer is well known to me. I read his tafseer about Isa making dead people alive.

Why you not comment on Tafsir of a MUJADID
A Mujadid that is on a list of Mujadids on your website
?????

 

[Ehraz]

Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?

i believe on quran
not on imagination of some story writer

we all should do it.

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?

This is your understand, and not mine. For me it doesn't make any sense. Read 2161 and 2162. Why should Solomon punish a bird? Only because it was absent? Your assumption of a bird is irrational. Ibn Kathir tafseer is well known to me. I read his tafseer about Isa making dead people alive.

and by the way what you have against
Isa AS making people alive by saying QUM bay Izn Allah

 

[Abdul Allah]

Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?

we all should do it.

Than stop believing your Murabis

 

[Ehraz]

Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?

Why you not comment on Tafsir of a MUJADID
A Mujadid that is on a list of Mujadids on your website
?????

Why should I? You are debating with me and not with my whole Jamaat. It is possible that other people in my Jamaat even disagree with me perspective. We are debating as an individual and not Ahmadi vs Sunni. You take single ayah literally and I disagree.

 

[Ehraz]

Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?

Than stop believing your Murabis

Loool! Oh my goodness. Why do you try to impose your version of Islam on me? Did ever imposed my belief on you? Please don't make fool of your self.

edit: your next call could be: stop telling Christians Jesus is not son of God! :-) Or I should avoid Christian people... :-)

 

[Ehraz]

Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?

No one could answer your Mirza , he was a prophet of Shetan

How someone could answer his follower.

The Shetan family will be answered at the day of judgement.

We remember how Shetan argued with Allah and then betrayed Adam.

Even Allah Tala did not answered Shetan.

:-) Keep cursing my dear. You are damn right - at judgement day Allah will decide who was right or who wrong. You and Your Ullemas did their best - all in all failed and Islam-Ahmadiyya spread all over the world. Alhamdulillah the Jamaat is busy at any cause and at any stage to defend Islam. I don't think I should tell you how the world see you...! ;-)

 

[Ehraz]

Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?

I have answered it using QURAN.
but you are not willing to answer it directly and with logic.
READ AGAIN.
The Ayath that says Parindoon ke zubaan sikhai gai clearly shows that The part of Sura actually talk about PARINDA .

also your logic in 2160 foot note that Hazrat Suleman can not be angry with a bird.

Well you failed to see that it said Zibah karoon ga.
Now think (i have less hope that you will) that Zibah karoon ga? is about a MAN or a BIRD.

Sir, please get mature! It is very well explained there, but you are not willing to understand. It's OK.
You must be a very special person who is able to understand "prindoon ki zuban".
Your logic for the simple thing makes me laugh. Hope you don't mind it... ;-)

 

[Ehraz]

Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?

Before the superMod delete all my posts, let be clear: I am not imposing my Jamaat on any one. Islam does not permit us such behaviour... every one should feel free to have his say, but please do it in proper manner. Cursing at me doesn't make out of you a wise and better Muslim or something else. And if post my comment then don't take for grant to curse at me. :-)

 

[Raaz]

Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?

“And will make him a Messenger to the children of Israel (to say): ‘I come to you with a Sign from your Lord, which is, that I will fashion out for you a creation out of clay after the manner of a bird, then I will breathe into it a new spirit and it will become a soaring being by the command of Allah; and I will heal the night-blind and the leprous, and I will quicken the dead, by the command of Allah; and I will announce to you what you will eat and what you will store up in your houses. Surely, therein is a Sign for you, if you be believers."(3:50)

Can you please show me the BIRD fashioned by Jesus(as) and the BIRD fashioned Allah Almighty? Or kitnay Murdoon ko Hazrat Isa(as) ne Zinda kia? Kia jab Hazrat Isa(as) aasaman se wapiss aingay to murdoon ko zinda karaingay? Please explain how you do interpret this.

I remember that someone asked a Maulana Sahib about this matter. He asked Maulana Sahib: can you please show us the difference between bird made by Isa(as) and the bird made by Allah? Maulana Sahib replied in hurry - wo sarre mill mull gai ne... Lol!

Logic: like Mughal1 said: "whatever cannot be explained or reproduced in any respect does not come under laws of nature."

No one could answer your Mirza , he was a prophet of Shetan

How someone could answer his follower.

The Shetan family will be answered at the day of judgement.

We remember how Shetan argued with Allah and then betrayed Adam.

Even Allah Tala did not answered Shetan.

 

[Mughal1]

Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?

I believe on Quran
Not on imagination of some story writer

Dear Abdul Allah, one cannot be a muslim if he does not accept the quranic text in its entirety. No muslim has problem with the text of the quran it is the interpretation that we differ about.

The reason I am more interested in realistic interpretation is because that is what the quran seems to be revealed for ie guidance of mankind about living in this world and organizing as a good human society on basis of divine revelation. Managing people, land and resources properly so that we do not end up fighting each other and so peace prevails in the land.

Almost all wars are fought on this basis alone according to the quran. The main miraculous task is to have divine rule in place amongst mankind. So many prophets were send just for this mission alone to show people how to live like a single family on this earth, caring for each other and sharing lives with each other. Not fighting over silly little things.

Establishing the divine kingdom here on this earth was the best miracle and gift from Allah for mankind. It is fulfillment of his message and the prophetic mission.

Make belief interpretations only take people further away from the objectives of the mission and that was exactly what muslim ruler wanted and employed mullas for to achieve and they did.

All mullas find security outside reason and reality and take as their basis invented reports and silly opinions as their interpretations of the quranic text.

Nonetheless everyone is free to express one's opinion no matter how illogical or unreal.

regards and all the best.

 

[Raaz]

Re: Hudhuda insaan ys parinda?

Lets finish our discussion , because of different believes.

[HI]Lets us conclude that HUD HUD was a man and Mirza and Pervez were a bird.[/HI]

Same Manal was woman and Mirza and Pervez's family women were Ant.