Gen. Kiyani demands extradition of CIA - Chief Spy Pasha flies to USA. What is your take?

[usm100]

So do you believe another politician being played in the hands of army will make any change???

One thing is certain. You cannot doubt Imran's honesty until now. However, the real colors come out when someone is put in the real test. As he is the only clean person in the current lot of politicians, Imran may be on the driving seat of the technocrat set up in the offing. (serius)

 

[Wadaich]

I am happy with anything which can put Pakistan on track....

There is a mind making going on.... and if we can get a sincere technocrat govt which can put the country on an upward path... I wont mind..

ان سیاستدانوں نے ویسے بھی ملك كو كیا دیا ہے۔۔۔

Agreed!
Our party should be Pakistan "The Madina-e-Sani". Whosoever, has bad intentions about it must be condemned. If someone cast a bad eye on it, his eyes should be gouged out.

 

[United4Pak]

I am happy with anything which can put Pakistan on track....

There is a mind making going on.... and if we can get a sincere technocrat govt which can put the country on an upward path... I wont mind..

ان سیاستدانوں نے ویسے بھی ملك كو كیا دیا ہے۔۔۔

I believe getting rid of a "democratic" government would be a worst decision. The best way is to let this government and PML-N rule and then a better Pakistan will emerge. We are at a state where we have got nothing to lose. Getting rid of a government would give a lot of sympathies for PPP as it has happened in the past.

Let me the devil's advocate and if I may ask has any politician been given the freedom to do whatever he/she wanted to do and the answer would be no.

 

[United4Pak]

Gen. Kiyani demands extradition of CIA agents from Pakistan, Chief Spy Pasha flies to USA after having successfully begged extension. Is it another false flag effort to cool down enraged public as army pimped out Davis. However, the drones attacks in Pakistan seem to be at halt after Kiyani's statement last month.What is your take?

I don't know how the above translation is done without mentioning the following passages.

Two senior American officials said afterward that General Pasha did not make any specific requests for reductions of C.I.A. officers, contractors or American military personnel in Pakistan at the meetings.

“There were no ultimatums, no demands to withdraw tens or hundreds of Americans from Pakistan,” said one of the officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the tensions between the two spy services.

A C.I.A. spokesman, George Little, called the meetings “productive” and said the relationship between the two services “remains on solid footing.”

Link to news article http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/12/world/asia/12pakistan.html

 

[Wadaich]

I believe getting rid of a "democratic" government would be a worst decision. The best way is to let this government and PML-N rule and then a better Pakistan will emerge. We are at a state where we have got nothing to lose. Getting rid of a government would give a lot of sympathies for PPP as it has happened in the past.

Let me the devil's advocate and if I may ask has any politician been given the freedom to do whatever he/she wanted to do and the answer would be no.

Do you think Western form of Democracy isn't a "DEMOCRAZY". The prerequisite of which is division of any nation into two parts, if not in more than it?

 

[Wadaich]

I don't know how the above translation is done without mentioning the following passages.

Two senior American officials said afterward that General Pasha did not make any specific requests for reductions of C.I.A. officers, contractors or American military personnel in Pakistan at the meetings.

“There were no ultimatums, no demands to withdraw tens or hundreds of Americans from Pakistan,” said one of the officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because of the tensions between the two spy services.

A C.I.A. spokesman, George Little, called the meetings “productive” and said the relationship between the two services “remains on solid footing.”

Link to news article http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/12/world/asia/12pakistan.html

Neither Urdu translation nor words of G. Little or Nytimes are word of God. Both the parties may be extracting there own meaning. The only difference is there media is integrated with their national interests and ours bought out by them. You must have come across what happened to Sheireen Mazari with respect to her articles in "Express Tribune".

http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...ucceed-In-Buying-Out-Parts-Of-Pakistani-Media

 

[United4Pak]

Do you think Western form of Democracy isn't a "DEMOCRAZY". The prerequisite of which is division of any nation into two parts, if not in more than it?

No, this is exactly the same procedure of choosing Hazrat Usman (RA) when Hazrat Umar died and the council of elders chose between Hazrat Ali (RA) and Hazrat Usman (RA) so democracy is not a new concept in Islam. Hazrat Umar (RA) wanted elders to choose 1 among themselves and kill other who didn't accept the majority verdict and he had given a time frame which shows the importance of government/ leader.

 

[adnan_swati]

There is a lot of talk about Technocrat govt..... I believe something is cooking...

system should run . we dont need agencies

 

[Wadaich]

system should run . we dont need agencies

Should we put an end to Pak Army and ISI for the better future of Pakistan?

 

[Wadaich]

No, this is exactly the same procedure of choosing Hazrat Usman (RA) when Hazrat Umar died and the council of elders chose between Hazrat Ali (RA) and Hazrat Usman (RA) so democracy is not a new concept in Islam. Hazrat Umar (RA) wanted elders to choose 1 among themselves and kill other who didn't accept the majority verdict and he had given a time frame which shows the importance of government/ leader.

And made his son Abdullah-Ibn-Umar (Faqih-e-Ummat) part of the council not as a candidate (strictly prohibited to be so) but only if the voting gets fifty fifty his vote could be decisive. Can we find such a example in the known history of mankind before him? While we have dirty political worms like Monis, Bilawal, Hamza shareef etc etc.

 

[rana14801]

without knowing the facts in side just do not involve in useless discussions about army and ISI. ISI is such an organization who will not obay the orders of its chief or chief of army if those orders r against the intrest of Pakistan. just trust ur people in this organization. the whole world's agencies r affraid of ISI and has not yet been able to panitrate or harm this orgnization because they r the most sincere group of people to Pakistan and because of their true loyalties Allah is helping them.

 

[karachiwala]

Deteriorating relations between Pakistan and USA

 

[karachiwala]

Re: Deteriorating relations between Pakistan and USA

 

[Wadaich]

without knowing the facts in side just do not involve in useless discussions about army and ISI. ISI is such an organization who will not obay the orders of its chief or chief of army if those orders r against the intrest of Pakistan. just trust ur people in this organization. the whole world's agencies r affraid of ISI and has not yet been able to panitrate or harm this orgnization because they r the most sincere group of people to Pakistan and because of their true loyalties Allah is helping them.

You are requested to please let us abuse army and ISI as much as our masters and role models in India and west get happy. It is fashion and trend of time to call names on both of the aforesaid organizations. It is getting very difficult for us to face our benefactors unless we scold both of these. See who on the face of the earth is not abusing Pakistan Army and ISI, Should we take position contrary to popular beliefs. Pakistan does not matter, it is our pseudo intellectualism which should be satisfied, even if it is achieved by offering our mothers, daughters, and sisters to the enemy. We just want to live a "happy go lucky" life. This is the only success factor in life. As a case in point see how India sitting pantyless in the lap of uncle SAM abuses Pak army and ISI, and is being cherished and loved, see how lovingly uncles pats it, please let me enjoy the same, as regards the panty I can put on later:

 

[Wadaich]

http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?62185-Deteriorating-relations-between-Pakistan-and-USA

 

[Nice2MU]

Nice way to justify one by blaming other
If you ask politician they have similar arguments i.e. Nawaz is blaming Zardari etc etc.
We as nation all are responsible for this

But those who has responsibilities and power r more involved

You can call Nation as idiots but not Traitor bz this words suits Pak Army and Hypocrite belongs to Politician

It is getting a nice discussion....


Okay if I would agree you for a moment of time, I would like to raise few points here.

1) Had we the same Character as Nation in 50s, 60 or even 70s?

2) I think we had been make corrupt by our politicians....

3) There had been always more corruption in Civilian Govts than in Army Govt. and this corruption starts mostly from 1988 onward.

4) Due to Lack of accountability at any level (from Peon to Prime Ministership),( because how can a corrupt person like Zardari, Nawaz or Gilani can do accountability ) our whole nation follow our Politicians and become corrupt which you are cursing now.

 

[Nice2MU]

Maybe your Imran khan the so called politician should have the courage to speak against the army. OOh but wait he is the closest and most chaheeta politician for army these days. And he recently meet ISI chief. SO before you keep puting fingers on others . get your own house in order man.

I think you forgot that you beloved Leader become "Leader" in the time of Zia (if you are the follower of Nawaz

If you are the follower of MQM again, this is the party which has been expended and raised in the time of Zia and being in govt. with Musharaf for 5 years.

Who would you blaming now? ..... You are talking on rumors and assumption but I have mentioned the FACTS with Logic..... So don't follow the assumption, present Logic if you have.

 

[Nice2MU]

system should run . we dont need agencies

Should we put an end to Pak Army and ISI for the better future of Pakistan?

Very Very idiotic suggestion by Adnan.... No govt. can run without agencies..... U can say that Agencies shouldn't interfere in govt. function but again it would only happened if there is a Credible and Honest Govt. not like Zardari or Nawaz....

 

[ilovepak]

Originally Posted by adnan_swati
in ideal conditions this sounds very good. but you know ho wea is our govt. and how strong is our military .
politicians cant take stand infront of army for the same reason businessman cant take stand infront of MQM in karachi

Its very true. If you have to do politics in pakistan you have to get permission from army. That is how it has been for years.
The propaganda from the army has always been so strong that we could never see anything wrong in armies role.
But now it has slowly changed. And i believe if the democracy will be given chance for 15-20 years we will not only have neat and clean politicians but the army will also be into there senses.

Totally agree ................
I have millions of quires regarding army but mentioning few here
hope someone who is more close to army will better answer this

• What is difference between Pak army and East India company (please elaborate DHA +++)
• Name achievements that Pak army had in warzone … starting from 1948 war till last dron attack.
• What kind of security Army provides (All genocides including 1971, Karachi, Baluch and Sawat,missing person and many more).
• And those who are blaming politician , do not forget (may be your ancestors did not tell you :D) that army has more shares in it (Waraich bai can you please calculate number years in which army did dictatorship or traitorship). And what benefit they give us.

 

[c4cheema]

It is getting a nice discussion....


Okay if I would agree you for a moment of time, I would like to raise few points here.

1) Had we the same Character as Nation in 50s, 60 or even 70s?

I do not think we are changed after reading 1970 sawat genocide and 71 Bangladesh
I think our charater is same due to which we are in this situation
[FONT=&quot]KHUDA NE[/FONT] AAJ TAK [FONT=&quot]US QAUM KI HALAT NAHI BADLI[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]NA HO JIS KO KHAYAL APP APNI HALAT KA BADALNA KA[/FONT]

2) I think we had been make corrupt by our politicians....

No doubt politician + all other departments are responsible for that

3) There had been always more corruption in Civilian Govts than in Army Govt. and this corruption starts mostly from 1988 onward.

Except Zia’s Era (Although he did dictatorship) whole army did corruption … (would you like to explain Gen Rani,Gen Ayub, and great great Busharaf)

4) Due to Lack of accountability at any level (from Peon to Prime Ministership),( because how can a corrupt person like Zardari, Nawaz or Gilani can do accountability ) our whole nation follow our Politicians and become corrupt which you are cursing now.

With minor level or lack of intellectuality Nawaz 1998 was much better then any other politician.


My result if you want to make Pakistan full and final safe state apply Quran and Sunna on all departments
i.e. not Haram Malukiat by Army or Politician, ask army to play their role for what they are designed