Deconstructing Zaid Hamid by Abdul Majeed Abid

moazzamniaz

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Though i already knew that MIT does not offer Neurosurgery program (Residency), even then i checked it again thoroughly and there is not a single frigging course, program, internship, residency of neurosurgery, not even a shitty rotation. Still unable to understand what kind of pure and pristine s h i t, these people smoke. I mean, it just seems awesome and i envy them:cry_smile:. MIT offers only one 4 year MD residency program and even this program is a joint venture of MIT`s HST and Harvard School of Medicine and it does not contain even a 3 month rotation of NS.
http://hst.mit.edu/servlet/ControllerServlet?handler=PublicHandler&action=browse&pageId=1785
Neurosurgery is the longest MD residency program in US and its duration varies from 7-12 years after completion of med school, depending upon years committed for research. For God`s sake, MIT stands for Massachusetts Institute of Technology. While neurosurgery residency programs are solely offered by University hospitals (affiliated with university med schools) and HMO`s.
 

Unicorn

Banned
zahid hamid is clever person , he lies alot but because lies are hidden and wrapped in pro- pakistan or islamic wrapers so people believe in him easily. unfortunality, the environment has become such that people do not even ask for the prof or varifie the prof . a friend of mine says the easiest short cut to a great life in paksitan are 2.

1. grow a beard, learn few hadeth and surah and start posing as scholar, peer sahib etc , u will not only get thousands of blind followers, plus lots of donations and money, good car and a comfortable house just in matter of few years.

2. now a days grow a small beard learn few hadeth and surah, and learn english and then collect the garbage from wikipedia and start posing whole world anti pakistan and even if trains do not run on time put the blame on jews and if tyre of your car looses air blame it on america and if your local phone network stop working blame it on india as attack on your communication systems, not only media will give you full coverage , people will chant slogans and no one will ask any prof and you will be considered the hero of thousands. if some people fight in your street blame it on RAW. oh

and followers ranging from uneducated to university educated and no one will dare to ask for a prof or even reference for all the lies and claims .

7-8 years ago no one knew who ZA was? used to work in compaines as a slaried person, worked in brinks the security company . but cleaners, cooks and peons and clarks are also part of brinks . no one knows what was job of ZA, what education he has to be a security expert or analyst.

he is modren peer , peer fools the unedcated he fools the the educated in english, and result?? celbrety status, just a phone call and doors are open in offices for him, comfortable and easy life style , invitations for visits and lectures all sponsered , wow what a short cut dont you think????

sometimes i seriously think go back to pak, leaving europe, growing a small beard , i know some surah and hadeth by heart and also have some knowledge of history , can speak english as well , i have all what it takes to be so called analyst , in few years time , a celeberty a hero, easy life , wow my mouth is watering magar pher sawal atta hai zehan main marny k baad Allah koo itny sary jhooton kaa hesab kesy don gaa?

Delusion is in very high demand there. You should have heard the speech of Orya Maqbool it was couple of days ago you can still find it here. His stories were out of this world to. How he met French foreign minister, I loved his conversation with him where he shut him up with his great ideology. If you got a chance go through it. Crowd listening just loves it.
 

rfarooqi

Councller (250+ posts)
ZH: Tipu Ki rocket batteries main pani mila dia gya.(Translation:- Tipus Rocket Batteries were rendered ineffective by adding water to them)
Comment:- This is scientifically absurd. John Volta, an Italian physicist invented the commonly used batteries in 1801.!! And which primitive rockets ran on batteries.? Which batteries.? How did water change the chemical composition.?

See this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artillery_battery
 

J10 V Dragon

Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
ZH:-Afghan war is about oil.Comment:- This is a favorite narrative of conspiracy theorists of this country. Another variation is that US invaded Afghanistan because of the minerals. The point is, where is that oil.? Since 2001, American forces have been present on Afghan soil, when and where did they export oil to.? Is there a secret pipeline between lets say Kandahar and Washington.? Might be, if you listen to ZH.

Somehow its true about Oil (or rather Gas). Taliban Govt had offers from Bredas (Argentina) and Unocol (USA) to build up a gas (or oil) pipeline from Central Asia to pass through Afghanistan.

This info I read on Ahmed Rashid's book: Taliban: Militant Islam, Oil and Fundamentalism in Central Asia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban:_Militant_Islam,_Oil_and_Fundamentalism_in_Central_Asia

After that

7 Sep 2001: Taliban Govt, gave contract to Bredas.
8 Sep 2001: Ahmed Shah Masood Died in Bomb Blast
9 Sep 2001: 9/11 happened in NY, WTC

When USA invaded Afghanistan and toppled Taliban from Kabul, the first decision taken by them was re-awarding Gas pipleline contract to Unocal.
So probably ZH was somehow right in that context.
 

rfarooqi

Councller (250+ posts)
ZH:-30 million people(Muslims/Indians)were slaughtered by East India Company and there is no trace in history of that.Comment:- How awfully convenient in that.!! This pretty much sums up the authenticity of ZHs own claim. There actually is no proof of any such genocide in history books.

Here is an account of 10 million people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1770 .Responsibility directly lies on East India Company.
Also see
Ferguson, Niall (2003). Empire: The Rise and Demise of the British World Order and the Lessons for Global Power. New York: Basic Books
 

awan4ever

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Have I ever said that ZH version of history is not biased? but a lot of what he says he provides evidence for, no matter where he picks it from. I provided references to prove some of the last years students claims as wrong and refuted rest of his doctrine based on that. Rest was a litterary analysis of his writeup and you can drag it anyway.Secondly, even wikipedia claims that Sultan's Rocket technology was used by Britisher's to win against Nepolian. Does not it tell you that the guy who wrote the article is only bent upon proving ZH wrong with no respect to our past. Even then if you believe that ZHs version is all twisted and this guys is all right, what I can do.

Much of what we know today as facts is concoted by the west and they have done their bit to twist the history. If you would like to deny that and believe on thier versions, it is up to you. As a refresher, go through the documentary I have provided reference to.
Please do not make it an argument between you and me.

you take ZHs account of history as the whole truth and that is why you are defending it. That is a bias. You have a pro ZH bias and I have an anti ZH bais. Theres nothing wrong in having a bias.

The whole point of the article was to refute the 'evidence' of ZH and while you answered each point based on your own search, I refuted YOUR points based on my searches. Please let me know where you find my facts flawed and I will try to rectify them. Just providing your point of view doesnt make the writer automatically wrong.

Maybe you did not get the gist of my point on the rocket issue. Neither I nor the writer claimed that Tipu was not a brilliant person and he used technology to his advantage. Now as you agreed that Tipu 'improved' upon the Chinese rockets, and for that he is termed a 'pioneer' and whatnot however in the same breath ZH calls the English 'thieves' for 'improving' upon Tipus technology? My question is why does ZH apply this double standard? Im not a fan of the English in any sense of the word but this double speak upsets me.
Please explain how Tipu is a pioneer for doing something and the English are thieves for doing the same?
This is why I call out ZH for twisting facts.

As for concoction of facts, you must have heard the saying "History is written by the conquerors" .

The Muslim emperors before the English wrote history as they liked. So this argument is a two edged sword. It cuts both ways so if you want to go by that logic then all your references might be called out as biased too because you will be referencing the Muslim conquerors like I am referencing the English conquerors.

The documentary you referenced is written by a self pitying Muslim who is laying all blame on the English. I do not buy that kind of history. I place 90% of the blame for the downfall of the Indian subcontinent into the hands of the English on the locals. first and foremost on the Muslim rulers, then the hindus as they were a majority and the rest of the local populace for allowing a few thousand foreigners from thousands of miles away to conquer a country 10 times the size of England!
Even worse is the fact that unlike the African and south American colonies, India was much more developed and powerful and still fell to the English!
To this day we are living in self pity, blaming all our ills on the English and the way the messed up the 'Islamic' system of India. How pathetic are we? have you ever thought how messed up we are to be blaming the English to this day for our ills?

Im sorry I cannot watch that stupid piece of crap. If there is some good reference in it let me know and I will check it out.
 
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awan4ever

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
By reading ur hateful post against islamist i knew from the frst day for whom u are working and what are ur intentions,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21LjHkzD1BQ
w
atch this documentry but its certainly not for u its a proof that tipu sultan was first inventer and user of rockets

By reading your stupid post it came as no surprise to me that you are a ZH fanboy.

Goto the video you just posted and in the 'video description' just below the video, hit the 'show more' button.
You will find it starts with this paragraph :

Rockets were invented in medieval China (Circa 1044 AD) but it's first practical use for serious purpose other then entertainment took place in 1232 AD by the Chinese against the Mongols at the siege of Kai-Feng-Fue.


 

awan4ever

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Imdada Awan, Though it could have had been a longer comment than usual yet blokes here are taking care of the longer discussions. I too criticize ZH sometimes yet your knowledge of history also seems only influenced and gained through a certain pathway. Well! your facts about the subcontinent are clouded as I humbly (not boasting my mate, just for the sake of reference) belong to the Timurid Family which ruled hindustan and we fled from the red fort right after 1857 so the actual happenings in fact have been told to us by our elders rather than asking others for reference. The way british pursued my family wherever we went and made sure that we couldn't settle down is another story. How things were going on at that time is also a long story which is misquoted in many of the history books. I wonder how a person who claims to be an educated person gets his perspective from certain chains only. About Chomsky too, you have mistook the statement. Anyway, not here to argue but to tell you that history has always been engineered and it specially was after knights templar made the final plan to take over the world after death of Salahuddin Ayyubi and defamation of Muslim rulers, our heritage and deviation from the original course was one of the key points. Anyway, nice to know that you actually tend to research yet would humbly ask you to go further in this regard. Not a sole supporter of ZH yet your readings are a bit distorted mate and it happens as we are humans and tend to err so does Mr. ZH.
Cheers.

Glad to meet ancient royalty.
Well my friend, if you want to throw out every single history book and want me to rely on something told down generation to generation, i think academically speaking that is hard to do. Im sure history is biased somewhat as you go from historian to historian but still I dont think any historian would miss out on 30 million killings dont you think? Their would be SOME record of that.

Secondly please accept my apologies in advance when I say that the Timurid dynasty was not my favorite. My hero from that time period was Abdullah Bhatti, a true son of the soil from Punjab who opposed the invader and heretic Akbar. The land of India belongs to the locals who have lived here and it is not for foreigners, mongols or turks or arabs or afghanis to come and plunder and claim dominion over in the name of Islam. The Islamic credentials of many of these invaders are very very disputable as besides their names they had nothing Islamic about them.

As far as spread of Islam goes, i dont remember any conqueror going to Indonesia/Malaysia yet they are the biggest Muslim ethnicity on the planet today. Even in India Islam spread at the hand of the great Sufis on whose doorsteps even your great grandfathers came without their royal shoes.

As for ZH goes, he does not err, he is an error and an aberration spreading lies and hate. I cannot stand him and I am not apologetic of that fact.
 

awan4ever

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
ZH:-30 million people(Muslims/Indians)were slaughtered by East India Company and there is no trace in history of that.Comment:- How awfully convenient in that.!! This pretty much sums up the authenticity of ZH’s own claim. There actually is no proof of any such genocide in history books.

Here is an account of 10 million people. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1770 .Responsibility directly lies on East India Company.
Also see
Ferguson, Niall (2003). Empire: The Rise and Demise of the British World Order and the Lessons for Global Power. New York: Basic Books

I agree that the EI Co is repsonsible for it. However the twist put up by ZH is notable.
Slaughter means to kill as in war by using brute force. Using such language to gain false sympathies and create fury in peoples hearts is what we are pointing out.

If the famine is akin to 'slaughter' then heres a list of great famines also available on wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_famines

N
otice how many time India comes up. Even in times when the English were not ruling. Does that mean the Muslim rulers also 'slaughtered' people?
 

Veila Mast

Senator (1k+ posts)
[MENTION=8740]awan4ever[/MENTION]

4ever Bhai Jaan,

Could you do me a favor if you could upload original clips as well.

In this way we may come to know not only content but also context.

As I believe your actual concern is not CONTENT but context!

SAFMA dragged Zahid Hamid in court not because of ALLEGATION TO BE FUNDED BY RAW but their actual concern was TWO NATION THEORY!

Likewise, you have no problem with content but IDEOLOGY that he propagates!

Am I right SIR!
 

awan4ever

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
@awan4ever

4ever Bhai Jaan,

Could you do me a favor if you could upload original clips as well.

In this way we may come to know not only content but also context.

As I believe your actual concern is not CONTENT but context!

SAFMA dragged Zahid Hamid in court not because of ALLEGATION TO BE FUNDED BY RAW but their actual concern was TWO NATION THEORY!

Likewise, you have no problem with content but IDEOLOGY that he propagates!

Am I right SIR!

Please keep the font size normal. I dont need reading glasses yet thank you.

The original clips can be found on youtube. Im sure you would already have watched all his programs and remember them by heart. The article mentions the clips from the program 'Iqbal ka Pakistan'.

Now coming to the SAFMA case. I dislike Marvi Sirmed becasue she is a stuck up b*tch who cant take criticism of the lefts stupid assertions. I have had a one to one dialogue with her on twitter and she isnt a very charming person. Yet I think she makes more sense than Zaid Hamid.

SAFMA sued Zaid Hamid and Mehr Bukharis show for slander not for preaching the 2 nation theory. If that had been the case they would have sued long ago and sued 180 million Pakistanis who believe in that theory not just Zaid Hamid.

So lets not go about twisting facts and presenting stupid logic.

If Marvi Sirmed disagrees with the two nation theory, it wont cause the country to collapse like ZH and yourself want everyone to believe. It is just a divergent point of view and I respect that and I learn a lot from people who have opposing views as it gives me a new direction to think in. That doesnt mean I start to walk in that direction but I certainly do think about it for the sake of thinking alone. Thinking doesnt hurt you know.

I have a problem with everything about Zaid Hamid. His ideology which I do not believe is helpful for progress unlike you, his self-aggrandizing speeches, his shallow patriotism, his hate mongering and his assertion that anyone who thinks differently than him is a traitor.

So there. Thats what I had to say about that.
 

Veila Mast

Senator (1k+ posts)
Please keep the font size normal. I dont need reading glasses yet thank you.

The original clips can be found on youtube. Im sure you would already have watched all his programs and remember them by heart. The article mentions the clips from the program 'Iqbal ka Pakistan'.

Now coming to the SAFMA case. I dislike Marvi Sirmed becasue she is a stuck up b*tch who cant take criticism of the lefts stupid assertions. I have had a one to one dialogue with her on twitter and she isnt a very charming person. Yet I think she makes more sense than Zaid Hamid.

SAFMA sued Zaid Hamid and Mehr Bukharis show for slander not for preaching the 2 nation theory. If that had been the case they would have sued long ago and sued 180 million Pakistanis who believe in that theory not just Zaid Hamid.

So lets not go about twisting facts and presenting stupid logic.

If Marvi Sirmed disagrees with the two nation theory, it wont cause the country to collapse like ZH and yourself want everyone to believe. It is just a divergent point of view and I respect that and I learn a lot from people who have opposing views as it gives me a new direction to think in. That doesnt mean I start to walk in that direction but I certainly do think about it for the sake of thinking alone. Thinking doesnt hurt you know.

I have a problem with everything about Zaid Hamid. His ideology which I do not believe is helpful for progress unlike you, his self-aggrandizing speeches, his shallow patriotism, his hate mongering and his assertion that anyone who thinks differently than him is a traitor.

So there. Thats what I had to say about that.

I deliberately used Size 5!

Lol!

Now if I go into detail why I did so then you may get offended and blame me DETRACTING the thread!

I cited Marvi in order to identify bone of contention, I didn't ask YOUR VIEWS on Two Nation Theory!

Relevant lines were in the end: "I have problem with everything....."

I am sure you have NOT any problem in PERSONAL CAPACITY!

So point is again on IDEOLOGY!

Now would you be generous to enlighten us about YOUR ideology of PROGRESS!

Is it SECULARISM, SOCIALISM, COMMUNISM or CONFUSED.COM!
 

Scorpion

Banned
Tipu sultan was the greatest visionary of 18th century. He was the pioneer of Rocket Technology and also created a “military industrial complex” in maisore

http://www.viewpointonline.net/deconstructing-zaid-hamid.html


Zaid Hamid is a media phenomenon popularized by his programs “Brass Tacks” and later “Iqbal ka Pakistan”. He has been frequently criticised in the mainstream media due to his espousal of conspiracy theories about global domination of Jews and their economic policies.


No one in the mainstream media has taken the threat posed by Zaid Hamid and people of his ilk, seriously (except by Fasi Zaka in 2 of his articles, which can be viewed here and here). Nadeem Farooq Paracha observed how such propaganda gained ground in apolitical Private educational institutions and not in the Public Universities.


He was repulsed initially(in 2009/10) by the dangerous Khatme Nabuwwat people and very few people raised the objection that just by labeling him a heretic would do him no harm in the long run. He came back with a bang riding on shoulders of Ali Azmat and Maria B. A detailed study of the problems posed by Zaid Hamid is required.
Recently Ayesha Siddiqa commented that “liberals fail to ask themselves is that in the absence of any legwork to eradicate growing radicalism, such as having the will to change the curriculum or creating a social agenda tied with political objectives, how can anyone even begin to change the mindset of Zaid Hamid followers?”
Zaid Hamid during the show “Iqbal ka Pakistan”, distorted facts and narrated awrong history. As a student of history, I observed that Zaid Hamid twisted the facts for his own convenience and played with the emotions of ummah in the name of Islam. Below is my discourse analysis of his programme Iqbal Ka Pakistan.


Episode 1
ZH:- Tipu sultan was the greatest visionary of 18th century. He was the pioneer of Rocket Technology and also created a “military industrial complex” in maisore.Comment: . I have 2 issues with these statements.
i) Based on which criteria is a Military ruler of a small south-indian state a bigger visionary than Voltaire, Rousseau, Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin(authors of the Legendary Declaration of Independence which begins as “When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation”.),Adam smith, Goethe(who had more influence on Iqbal's philosophy than tipu).?? All these people lived in the 18[SUP]th[/SUP] century.
2. Tipu sultan didn't 'invent' rockets, the Chinese did. Instead he introduced metal-coated rockets which were improved by a British scientist William Congreve.


ZH: Tipu Ki rocket batteries main pani mila dia gya.(Translation:- Tipu’s Rocket Batteries were rendered ineffective by adding water to them)
Comment:- This is scientifically absurd. John Volta, an Italian physicist invented the commonly used batteries in 1801.!! And which primitive rockets ran on batteries.? Which batteries.? How did water change the chemical composition.?


ZH:-East India Company was financed by Jewish Rothschild’s.
Comment:- This is an established fact that Nathan Rothschild invested in East India Company. Problem is that ZH got the time-line wrong. East India Company was formed in 1600 A.D. Rothschild’s started their business in 18[SUP]th[/SUP] century. Who financed the company before that.?


ZH:-30 million people(Muslims/Indians)were slaughtered by East India Company and there is no trace in history of that.Comment:- How awfully convenient in that.!! This pretty much sums up the authenticity of ZH’s own claim. There actually is no proof of any such genocide in history books.


ZH:-The mutiny of 1857 was a war of Independence and there was a 'massive uprising'.Comment:- As I have mentioned in my article “10 historical facts our textbooks forgot to mention” The 1857 mutiny was no more than a localized uprising in some parts of india.Surendra Nath Sen, in his Eighteen Fifty Seven(Calcutta,1958) says “Outside Oudh and Shahbad there are no evidences of that general sympathy which would invest the Mutiny with the dignity of a national war”. R.C Majumdar, in his The Sepoy Mutiny and the Revolt of 1857(Calcutta,1963) declares that “it cannot be regarded as a national rising, far less a war of independence, which it never professed to be”.
Reference:- KK Aziz, Murder of History, Sang-e-meel Publishers, Chapter 2, p149


ZH:- 1857 kay baad Musalmano ki masjidain ghoron ki astabl banay(After war of 1857,Mosques were used as stables)
Comment:- This also is a fact that has been modified for the sake of convenience. This indeed happened after the fall of Baghdad by forces of Halaku Khan and in Punjab during reign of Ranjit Singh(much before 1857).


ZH:- Forces of Napoleon were defeated at Waterloo because the Brits had rocket technology that they stole from Tipu Sultan.Comment:- Lying about probably one of the most documented war of the modern times is easier said than done.ZH was not deterred by this minor fact though. Tipu Sultan died in 1799, Waterloo happened in 1815, Napoleon was defeating forces left right and centre for more than 12 years before Waterloo happened, why did the rocket technology used against him so late? In fact there was a war between Napoleon and English forces in 1805, Why were the stolen rockets not used then.?


ZH:-Noam Chomsky is Amriki Taliban.Comment:- Noam Chomsky is Professor of Linguistics at MIT, one of the top universities in World today. According to the Arts and Humanities Citation Index in 1992, Chomsky was cited as a source more often than any other living scholar from 1980 to 1992. He is also the eighth most cited source of all time, and is considered the "most cited living author". He is also famous for his critique of US Foreign Policy and its imperialism. Comparing such a figure to Taliban is not only stupid, it also explains how little ZH knows about the Taliban(while ZH also claims to have fought alongside such people).He is confusing John Walker Lindh with Chomsky.


Episode IIZH:-The whole world became Darul kufr after 1st World War.
Comment:- This claim is wrong. Afghanistan still had a Muslim ruler, as did Iraq.
A similar “fatwa” was passed by Maulvi Abdul Bari, the secretary of Jamiat Ulema Hind in 1920 stating that India was a “Darul harb” and that they should migrate to “Dar ul Islam” i.e countries with a Muslim ruler. Muslims from all over India sold their lifelong homes and set out for Afghanistan, some went to Turkey. The ruler of Afghanistan denied entry to most of these people. According to official estimates, between 5 to 30 lac people died due to this disastrous proclamation. (Reference: Hasan Jaafer Zaidi,Hamari Taareekh fehmi aur hamara fikri bohran, published in Adab e Latif magazine in 2009)


ZH:-'Larkian parh rahi hain angrezi, Seekh li qaum ne falaah ki raah’Comment:- Allama Iqbal, in this couplet used satire that just because women were getting education didn’t mean every think was hunky dory now. ZH used it in the wrong context.


ZH:-Afghan Taliban are good because they didn’t follow International banking system, not corrupted by western civilization..Comment:- According to the book “My Life with the Taliban” by Mullah Abdus Salam Zaeef, he has explained how as part of the Taliban govt he used to work at the Central bank of Afghanistan and its setup was very much like traditional banks. Glorifying backwardness and tribalism speaks much about the mindset of Mr. Zaid Hamid.


ZH:-Iqbal was a great visionary as he believed, Afghanistan main aman ho ga to Asia main aman ho ga. (Iqbal believed that If there were peace in Afghanistan, there would be peace in Asia)Comment:- Iqbal was a great visionary but this is very bad logic. Granted that after 1979, Afghanistan has come to be known as the buffer state but before that, or at least at the time of Iqbal, Afghanistan was not involved in any active war. Also, there was no peace in Asia in the 1940s(2 atom bombs were dropped in Japan for god’s sake, where is the basic geography.!!!), the Long March in China caused a considerable loss of life, Burma and Singapore became theatres of war, while Afghanistan was peaceful. Pakistan and India fought two wars in 1965 and 1971 while Afghanistan was peaceful. There goes the logic. Also, Iqbal was not the only one with this much hindsight, Lord Curzon speaking at the annual dinner of the Royal Asiatic Society, London in 1908 said "If the Central Asian Society exists and is meeting in fifty or a hundred years hence, Afghanistan will be as vital and important a question as it is now". Reference: Ahmed Rashid, Descent into Chaos, Penguin Books, Newyork, 2009.


ZH:-Afghan war is about oil.Comment:- This is a favorite narrative of conspiracy theorists of this country. Another variation is that US invaded Afghanistan because of the minerals. The point is, where is that oil.? Since 2001, American forces have been present on Afghan soil, when and where did they export oil to.? Is there a secret pipeline between let’s say Kandahar and Washington.? Might be, if you listen to ZH.


ZH:-Mullahs have resisted Imperial forces in last 200 yr.s.Comment:- The same Mullahs fought from 1979-1989 for an imperialist force and many of them considered Iqbal a heretic.


ZH:-1860s, 1870s main Congress bani(Translation:-Congress was formed in 1860s,1870s).Comment:- ZH can’t even get the date/year/decade of formation of Indian National Congress right. It was formed in 1885.


ZH:-Muhamadan School later became 'Sir Syed University'.Comment:- While it is a fact that Mohammedan Angelo-Oriental College became a university and its students played a prominent role in the Pakistan movement. It is the only India-based University that was pivotal in the Pakistan movement but ZH still can’t name it right. Its name is Aligarh University and even students of 9[SUP]th[/SUP] class can tell that.


ZH:-Iqbal ne ibtadai talim angrezi main he hasil ki(Translation:- Iqbal acquired his early education in English medium).Comment:- Allama Iqbal started his formal education at Scotch Mission High School located in Sialkot Cantt. He also learnt Arabic and Persian from Maulvi Mir Hassan, one of his famous teachers.
The writer is a final year medical student from Lahore, interested in current affairs, political economyand Literature.

4dEb2.png


Except for a few points related to history which I am pointing, this article is a good one . . . .

ZH:- Tipu sultan was the greatest visionary of 18th century. He was the pioneer of Rocket Technology and also created a “military industrial complex” in maisore.Comment: . I have 2 issues with these statements.
i) Based on which criteria is a Military ruler of a small south-indian state a bigger visionary than Voltaire, Rousseau, Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin(authors of the Legendary Declaration of Independence which begins as “When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation”.),Adam smith, Goethe(who had more influence on Iqbal's philosophy than tipu).?? All these people lived in the 18[SUP]th[/SUP] century.
2. Tipu sultan didn't 'invent' rockets, the Chinese did. Instead he introduced metal-coated rockets which were improved by a British scientist William Congreve.

Rockets were invented by the Chinese . . . . However Tipu is regarded as the pioneer in using them as an organised force in the military . . . . He made the Rockets as the part of his artillery and organise them into batteries (this terminology is used to demonstrate the smallest unit in the artillery) . . . . For this purpose a production factory was indeed contructed in Serangapatum . . . . Now its up to any one to call it a factory or industrial complex . . . .
Tipu was know for his military vision and even today he is known as a warrior as he prefer to die a martyr . . . . Napolean mentioned the letters written to him by Tipu for forming a military alliance in order to defeat the Britishers . . . . Napolean campaign in the Egypt was in fact related to the Tipu Vision, as the stretigic thought of the Napolean was to link his forces to India through Egypt . . . . Therefore, by comparing Tipu with Voltaire, Rousseau, Goethe is not fare as Tipu was a genious military stretigist/Visionery than a historian/philospher . . . .

And Mysore was not a small state and in terms of population and area was larger than most european states of the time . . . . therefore in this aspect, it is the writer who is trying to minimize the influence of Tipu . . . . Regarding influecing Iqbal, Tipu effected Iqbal not as a Philospher (which was not Tipu Field) but as a General, and his martyrdom is one of the most romantic moment in the military history of sub continet (whose population surpasses the whole population of Europe), which could well narrate the influence of Tipu . . . .

And there is a lot of difference between an inventor and a pioneer which Tipu was . . . .


ZH: Tipu Ki rocket batteries main pani mila dia gya.(Translation:- Tipu’s Rocket Batteries were rendered ineffective by adding water to them)
Comment:- This is scientifically absurd. John Volta, an Italian physicist invented the commonly used batteries in 1801.!! And which primitive rockets ran on batteries.? Which batteries.? How did water change the chemical composition.?

Battery is a term employed in the Artillery to demonstrate the smallest fighting unit and it does not meant the electrical batteries which the writer falsly assumed . . . . Rockets of that time had two types of explosives in them, First was the primer which use to immediatly ignite and produse intense heat which than fires the main explosive sending the rocket flying towards the target . . . . Britishers were so afraid of this technology that the they especially contacted Mir Sadiq to solve this matter which he did by damping the Primer Explosive, which was carried seperately and only attached to the Rockets itself at time of firing . . . . The role of Mir Sadiq does not require more eloboration as due to his treason and many others, no organise resistance was launched against the British troops except a mere 200 or so individuals who were the part of Tipu's personnel escort and most of them including Tipu himself were martyred . . . . Where as at least 50 000 troops of the mysore military were either send to wrong fronts or were not even deployed at all . . . .

ZH:-East India Company was financed by Jewish Rothschild’s.
Comment:
- This is an established fact that Nathan Rothschild invested in East India Company. Problem is that ZH got the time-line wrong. East India Company was formed in 1600 A.D. Rothschild’s started their business in 18[SUP]th[/SUP] century. Who financed the company before that.?

Who says that Nathan Rothschild invented the east india company . . . . but at time of this particular event, he was indeed a financer and took keen interst in the politics happening at that time . . . . Does it really matters, who finance the company before him . . . .

ZH:-30 million people(Muslims/Indians)were slaughtered by East India Company and there is no trace in history of that.Comment:- How awfully convenient in that.!! This pretty much sums up the authenticity of ZH’s own claim. There actually is no proof of any such genocide in history books.

This is really an exaturated figure . . . . But my point is that one should not search for trace in a history written by the British themselves . . . It is only today that we come to know the facts that at least 3 million people died during the Bengal femine and who was the culprit . . . . Honorable Mr. Winston Churchill . . . . This is the so called moral character of the British . . . . Attrocites were committed and millions died if not 30 million . . . . Therefore, by mentioning the trace in history, writer is in deed trying to show a humanize face of the British Butchers . . . . Indeed the few known photographs of Madaras just after the end of mutiny in that city clearly shows hundred of butchered bodies/skeletons lying with out burial . . . . There fore hate zaid Hamid as I myself hates him, but in order to negate him dont try to extricate British from the crimes they committed . . . .

ZH:-The mutiny of 1857 was a war of Independence and there was a 'massive uprising'.Comment:- As I have mentioned in my article “10 historical facts our textbooks forgot to mention” The 1857 mutiny was no more than a localized uprising in some parts of india.Surendra Nath Sen, in his Eighteen Fifty Seven(Calcutta,1958) says “Outside Oudh and Shahbad there are no evidences of that general sympathy which would invest the Mutiny with the dignity of a national war”. R.C Majumdar, in his The Sepoy Mutiny and the Revolt of 1857(Calcutta,1963) declares that “it cannot be regarded as a national rising, far less a war of independence, which it never professed to be”.
Reference:- KK Aziz, Murder of History, Sang-e-meel Publishers, Chapter 2, p149

Rest I don t know why you are considering the whole sub continent as a some small state . . . . India was huge at that time with an eastimated population of some 200 million souls (larger than whole europe at that time) . . . . And if compared in this way was not some localised issue . . . . It effected the Central and Southern India and in terms of area and population, these areas were really huge . . . . The writer has no right that Just because the areas currently the part of Pakistan never supported this war for independence and in fact supported the Britishers (Many Infantry Battalions of the pakistan Army still proudly carries the Battle honours for their committments in this war for the Britishers), therefore, he should start calling this war of independance (which it later becomes) as some localised issue . . . .

If I got time I ll try to correct some other points related to history raised in this otherwise excellent article . . . . But for now . . . Bye Bye
 
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awan4ever

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I deliberately used Size 5!

Lol!

Now if I go into detail why I did so then you may get offended and blame me DETRACTING the thread!

I cited Marvi in order to identify bone of contention, I didn't ask YOUR VIEWS on Two Nation Theory!

Relevant lines were in the end: "I have problem with everything....."

I am sure you have NOT any problem in PERSONAL CAPACITY!

So point is again on IDEOLOGY!

Now would you be generous to enlighten us about YOUR ideology of PROGRESS!

Is it SECULARISM, SOCIALISM, COMMUNISM or CONFUSED.COM!

DOnt worry. If you go into any offensive detail you will be met in kind. ;)

I didnt GIVE my views on the two nation theory. I merely said that if someone disputes that, it wont bring down the federation.

Ofcourse I have a problem with his ideology which I DO NOT believe is useful for building a progressive nation.

Yes I will be generous enough about my ideology of progress.

I believe in a Socialist Democracy (and no that is not UnIslamic...it espouses every Islamic ideal in the fullest).
I have lived in Norway and I admire the system there.

After the bomb blasts and terror attacks in Oslo, the Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg came out with a statement that is a smack on the face of hate mongers, be it Zaid Hamid or George Bush.
He said we will answer this attack with more democracy and openness!!.
That is the kind of system I would like in Pakistan which helps people to think with an open mind.

So there. That is the way to progress I believe and not raising flags on Delhi fort like Zaid Hamid preaches.
 

Veila Mast

Senator (1k+ posts)
DOnt worry. If you go into any offensive detail you will be met in kind. ;)

I didnt GIVE my views on the two nation theory. I merely said that if someone disputes that, it wont bring down the federation.

Ofcourse I have a problem with his ideology which I DO NOT believe is useful for building a progressive nation.

Yes I will be generous enough about my ideology of progress.

I believe in a Socialist Democracy (and no that is not UnIslamic...it espouses every Islamic ideal in the fullest).
I have lived in Norway and I admire the system there.

After the bomb blasts and terror attacks in Oslo, the Prime Minister Jens Stoltenberg came out with a statement that is a smack on the face of hate mongers, be it Zaid Hamid or George Bush.
He said we will answer this attack with more democracy and openness!!.
That is the kind of system I would like in Pakistan which helps people to think with an open mind.

So there. That is the way to progress I believe and not raising flags on Delhi fort like Zaid Hamid preaches.

So you admire Norway which is Socialist Democracy and it is not Un Islamic!

So you mean to say it not SECULAR COUNTRY!

Are you sure?
 

awan4ever

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
So you admire Norway which is Socialist Democracy and it is not Un Islamic!

So you mean to say it not SECULAR COUNTRY!

Are you sure?

I said I wanted Social Democracy in Pakistan and that the rules of this system espouse all socio economic values taught in Islam. Meaning that the system is compatible with and can adapt to Islamic values.

Norway is officially a a christian monarchy and everyone is registered as a member of Church of Norway upon baptism unless they officially state otherwise.
 

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