الطاف بھائی کی انڈیا میں تقریر پر اعتراض ک&#15

mehwish_ali

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
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The Management of Hindustan Times, Distinguished Guests and Honorable Speakers: Assalam-o-Alaikum, Namaste, Sat Sri Akal and Good afternoon:

On behalf of my party and on my own behalf, I congratulate Hindustan Times for the Leadership Initiative series of lectures. I sincerely hope it develops into a successful forum to further the search for global peace and prosperity. I am indeed honored and privileged to be invited to share the stage with some of the most eminent leaders of my generation and to offer my humble views before such a distinguished audience.

It also happens to be my first address in the land of my forefathers and I am, therefore, particularly mindful of the historical opportunity to try and place my views on partnership with this great country for a better world.

Ladies and Gentlemen: There are more than 190 countries in the world today. They all communicate with one another directly or indirectly. In this age of Information Technology it is not possible to conceal facts for any length of time. Common folks are in a better position to assess facts from fiction. India has made giant strides in the field of IT and is recognized as the world’s largest democracy.

Soon after independence India got rid of the prevailing feudal system thereby strengthening the democratic institutions. The developments of this democratic process not only kept the armed forces at bay but also provided a boost to education the masses. General education brought about a Middle Class, which started to play its crucial role in Politics as well as in business. The democratic process in India proved the linchpin for its industrial advancement, particularly in the field of IT. It is forecasted that in the coming 15-20 years India will become one of the strong economies in the world, if the rate of progress continues. For a country’s partnership and growth it is essential that the economy move in the right direction.

Before I proceed to take up the topic of the day, I would like to take the liberty of briefing you about the emergence, philosophy and the political journey of the MQM so far. We are the third largest political party in Pakistan. We stand for equal rights and opportunities for all irrespective of color, creed, caste, sect, gender, ethnicity or religion. We strive tirelessly for tolerance, religious or otherwise and oppose fanaticism, terrorism and violence in all their manifestations.

MQM is committed to the introduction of an entrepreneurial free market economy good governance and independent judiciary capable of dispensing justice, transparent accountability, free Press and participation of women in all spheres of life. Our immediate political objective is to change the corrupt medieval feudal political system of Pakistan. We are, therefore, the only genuine party of the lower and middle classes, totally devoid of feudal lords and army Generals. The support that we enjoy from the people of Pakistan has been amply demonstrated in our performance during consecutive elections of 1988, 1990, 1993, 1997 and 2002.

Having started in March 1984 as a Mohajir Qaumi Movement out of the frustration of Mohajirs in Sindh, our track record today encourages even the Sindhi-speaking people from the rural areas of Sindh, who were led to believe by the Pakistan establishment that we would end up usurping their rights, are joining us in large numbers.

Why then, you may well ask, are we a part of the Government, which perpetuates army rule by undermining democracy and its institutions. We have paid a heavy price for pursuing our political objectives in a country where democracy is controlled. Given the circumstances which prevail, our desire to serve the helpless deprived and exploited peoples of Pakistan have indeed led us into political arrangements which we are neither comfortable in nor would deem desirable in better circumstances.

The choice before us in Pakistan today is not Musharraf or democracy but between army and even more army. The very religious parties created by the army facilitate to see through constitutional changes which debilitate democratic processes in the long term and on the very next day take to the streets try to make the world believe that they are the vanguard of the fight to restore democracy. To place our politics in context, I would also like to briefly touch upon the loot and plunder of the wealth and resources of Sindh and Balochistan, including the denial of their legitimate share from the federal revenues and ever so increasingly their due share of water, the consequences in terms of the rural areas and the severe environmental damage are there to be seen in both the provinces.

Ladies and Gentlemen: The scenario is so depressing that leadership of the day openly admits that the country would fall apart if the army did not run its affairs. . What does it tell you? To me it signifies a telling blow to the very idea of Pakistan, a homeland for the Muslims of the subcontinent, and the two-nation theory, which continues to wreck untold miseries on the people of this region for the past five decades. Muslims are fighting and killing each other on the basis of tribal and linguistic affinity, sectarian strife is worse than ever before. Mosques and madrassas are but flourishing businesses. The less educated the Pesh Imam, the more popular and affluent he is likely to be. The advocates of Jihad, a medieval concept to tame the infidel, are wantonly killing followers of the fait as they SOMETHING places of worship. Perhaps the idea of Pakistan was dead at its inception, when the majority of Muslims chose to stay back after partition, a truism reiterated in the creation of Bangladesh in 1971. If you need further evidence, look at the plight of 300,000 stranded Pakistanis in Bangladesh for three decades in their passage to the chosen land. Unwanted by both Bangladesh and Pakistan, led by an unknown destiny.

Ladies and Gentlemen: The rights of the people who migrated to Pakistan from Muslim Minority Provinces of the Subcontinent were usurped and they had to face highhandedness and injustices. We formed the Mohajir Qaumi Movement against these injustices. To crush our Movement baseless accusations were made and were termed “traitors”. We were targeted through State oppression in 1993, during the Army Operation against the MQM, General Elections were held. The Army imposed a ban on the MQM to contest these elections from a few constituencies to allow the army’s created group to win the elections and to demonstrate to the world that the people of urban centers of Sindh do not support the MQM. On this illegal and unconstitutional basis, the MQM decided to boycott the General Elections in protest. On our appeal, the people of Sindh successfully boycotted the General Elections also witnessed by the international observers.

As a result, the entire election process became dubious and then the high army official requested us to take part in the provincial assembly elections. With assurances of free and fair participation in the elections – on a 48-hour notice, we participated in the provincial elections and the people overwhelmingly bestowed their mandate in favor of the MQM. If the charges of terrorism leveled against the MQM had been true then the people of Singh would have supported the army operation against the MQM and in the presence of army they would not have effectively boycotted the elections and would not have given their mandate to the MQM. However, the people’s mandate was not respected and the State operation continued unabated against the MQM – and we were even not allowed to peacefully protest against the operation within the country.

No one can prove that we have pleaded anybody else’s case except our own at international platforms including the UN. We did, however, seek moral, political and diplomatic support from the countries, which stand for democracy and human rights. My representatives have met officials of the United States and many European countries because we were pushed against the wall and forced by our own government to take our case world-wide because they remained arrogant and hell bent on not providing rights and oppressed us militarily instead of sincerely and meaningfully negotiating with us in accordance with the democratic norms.

Mutual understanding and awareness of each others problems will certainly help to reduce tensions in the region.

06. We must also begin to look at possible arrangements for strengthening regional security co-operation. This probably would prove to be most difficult under the present circumstances of prevailing tensions in our region. But it is also therefore a necessity. Varying systems of co-operation in security matters could be designed and adopted between different states with the objective of reaching regional security co-operation at a later stage.

In conclusion, it may be pertinent to state once more that cultural heritage need not be a divisive force. We must and I believe we can ensure that our diverse cultures, yet our common heritage contain the seed of unity within that diversity. If we worked together we can draw strength from the richness of our civilizational traditions in order to give life to a new and modern South Asian unity. I truly believe that today we have arrived at the threshold of effective action to realize the dreams and aspirations of our people; freedom from poverty, from ignorance, under-development and from constant conflict which could best be achieved through regional unity of South Asian States.

I thank you. Ladies and Gentlemen: May I now revert to the topic of the Seminar and with your permission to make references to our party wherever appropriate.

The title of the conference “India and the World: A Blueprint for Partnership and Growth” has a welcome optimistic connotation. The themes of the future for the people of South Asia are indeed partnership and growth. Obviously, the first requirement for either to happen is that peace and normalcy must prevail. For much too long, Pakistan and India have been at odds. If we look around, we see unrest in Sri Lanka, Nepal and Bangladesh, Afghanistan is still looking for peace.

India and Pakistan, being the two largest in the region, need to demonstrate magnanimity and the necessary political wisdom and desire to truly seek peace. If this be so, it should be possible to pursue a meaningful, sincere and a composite dialogue with an open mind. I wish to take this opportunity to place on record the sincere appreciation of the MQM, and my own. of the recent initiatives by successive Prime Ministers of India, President General Pervez Musharraf and all those who may have been involved or contributed to the same. It is imperative that the current ambience be maintained to enable the process to evolve gradually. We see the approach in first tackling the issue of creation of processes necessary for carrying on the dialogue as a wise one. It is quite clear that the necessary architecture is now slowly but surely falling in place in a manner, which would impart continuity to the dialogue process itself. It is also heartening that a wide-range of outstanding issues is being simultaneously addressed at several levels.

It should be clear to all concerned that there can be no military solution to any of the contentious issues. Let alone the issue of Kashmir. Neither for that matter can resort to militancy and extremism. The mindless loss of lives, endless human rights violations and continuing depletion of developmental resources to deal with civil strife cannot be justified under any circumstances. As a representative of a persecuted minority forced to live in exile and to grieve the loss of colleagues and supporters day after day through extra-judicial processes, I can well understand the agony of the Kashmiris. Over 17,000 Mohajirs have been killed including leaders, supporters and their relatives during army and state operations.

Thousands of Mohajir families have been rendered destitute because either their breadwinners were extra-judicially executed, arbitrarily arrested or forced into hiding or exile. My 66 years old brother Mr Nasir Hussain and his son 28 year old Arif Hussain were unlawfully arrested in the presence of their entire neighborhood. They were brutally tortured for three days and on 9th December 1995 and then extra and then extra judicially executed. Both were non-political citizens of Pakistan.

The total number of casualties in the four wars, including Kargil, was in excess of thirteen thousand. Most estimates suggest that already more than fifty thousand lives have been lost in Jammu and Kashmir alone causing misery and grief to family members, distorting the normal pattern of life and virtually destroying the local economy. Who benefits from all this? Can the people of Pakistan and India afford it? Can they afford the diversion of these resources from their own development programs, health programs and education? Definitely not. Two million students are being taught currently in about 50,000 madrassas run by right-wing religious parties totally outside Government supervision to promote a medieval ideology leading to the generation of 15-20 thousand new militants every year, year after year. Who will detoxify the society? How will they be reintegrated into the mainstream? I pay tributes to the Muslim leaders and intellectuals of India for maintaining moderation and not pushing the Muslims towards fanaticism and Jihad.

Ladies and Gentlemen: The Confidence Building Measures contemplated to bring the people of both countries closer must be implemented vigorously. Let there be free people to people contact. Let there also be cultural and social contacts, sporting contacts, political contacts, economic contacts, and diplomatic contacts to further peace and harmony. Presently, part of the region and therefore her people equally deserve to freely interact with the people of adjoining states of India. However, denial to reopen the Khokrapar Munabao border and Ferry Service between Karachi and Bombay is nothing but stifling the rights of the people of Sindh. The people of Sindh are forced to take an expensive route via Islamabad to obtain to obtain visas and then Lahore to catch the train or the bus. It is now incumbent on the governments of India and Pakistan to re-open the Visa Office in Karachi, which would further better the relationship.

Ladies and Gentlemen: I have recently aired a few thoughts on “Realism and Practicalism” copies of which are in this hall. I will appreciate your comments on it. The spirit and essence of it is that we must accept the ground reality without blinkers. The reality today is that India and Pakistan are at loggerheads and as a result the region is in turmoil. Dialogue between India and Pakistan should be pursued in diversity and should not be a hostage to Kashmir issue only.Practicalism seeks ways for common or agreed grounds.

When we talk of Kashmir, there are several procedural and allied issues, which crop us. Is it a bilateral issue? Do the people of Kashmir come into the equation? I have a habit of speaking freely without mincing my worlds. I intend continuing to do so and gladly invite my critics to correct me on the credibility and the plausibility of my views, objectively, in India, Pakistan and internationally.

To deal with Kashmir, there has to be a basis or opinions on which the talks could take place. What could those options be? In the recently talked about “Chenab Formula” an option? Is “Dixon Plan” an option? Could formalization of the Line of control be an option? Are there any more options that we may not know about? We also talk about the UN Resolutions, could they be enforced? If it was enforceable, why has it not been enforced in the past? What have Tashkent and Simla Agreements and the Lahore Declaration yielded?

Practicalism and Pragmatism call for acceptance of what is in existence or has been in existence instead of arbitrary new ideas. I understand that the people of Kashmir are also aspiring for independence, even for this option, negotiation has to take place. Negotiation is the primary condition for all options. The Line of Control could well be used as the basis to begin negotiations by virtue of being a ground reality, which has existed for the past three decades. I am saying, use this as a basis or option to begin talks until such a time that a practicable alternative option is found. What is wrong with it? If both countries resolve that crossing this line would be considered as aggression, doesn’t it in lay men’s terms amount to an international border? If not, what is an international border?

And, if this is not an option then what options are we left with, another war? We have fought three wards over Kashmir, the governments may have achieved political victories and defeats, but what did the people achieve? Body bags of the soldiers and civilians, more widows and orphans, more taxes, contribution to war funds poverty and backwardness. And, if we remain intransigent and squander this opportunity, the cost to be paid in the long term could be horrid. Before I go further I would like to quote the Prayer of St. Francis of Assisi (1181), “Where there is hatred, let me sow love.”

On the spirit of this prayer I would like to request both the countries India and Pakistan, to stop sowing the seeds of hatred and start sowing the seeds of love.

My plan is to let good sense and logic prevail and to let our peoples prosper. Let us divert critically required funds from defence to social and economic sectors. Our children need education; our villages need clean drinking water, electricity, medical care, everywhere there is a crying need for employment, better civic amenities and transport facilities etc. Let common sense prevail over arrogance and political expediencies. Let us arm our children with education, health and hygiene than nuclear bombs and missile. I applaud President General Pervez Musharraf for making a bold and courageous statement discarding plebiscite as an option. I had always maintained that it was never a practicable or implementable option.

Ladies and Gentlemen: The United States of America, now the unipolar power of the world and her western allies have historically supported the dictatorial and monarchical rulers in the developing world for their short term gains and opposed moderate, liberal and enlightened Middle Class, as their sustained foreign policy. Their policies and mind set have always been Election centric. They failed to calculate the long-term repercussion of their foreign policies.

These authoritarian and monarchical rulers deliberately promoted religious, sectarian and ethno-linguistic fanaticism on the strength of the unbridled support of the west to protect their rules. Oppressed their people produced Osama-bin-laden, Al-Qaeda and Saddam Hussain. And, now to rein in Afghanistan and Iraq, the US and her allies has to wage a global war against terrorism in Afghanistan and Iraq. As a result of these wars, thousands of innocent people are being killed and millions of people are facing the wrath for no fault of theirs but their rulers. Infliction of atrocities is resulting in psycho reactionary actions amongst millions. It is now essential for the US and her western allies to review their policies, they should now support and nurture the modern, enlightened Middle Class who are capable of dismantling the religious, sectarian and ethno-linguistic fanaticism and establish genuine democracies which would be mutually beneficial for their people and the West. In case of Pakistan, the historical and sustained support of Feudal-Mullah-military alliance by the United States and West has already proved negative and has permeated rampant corruption, bad governance, denial of rights to smaller province, illiteracy, impoverishment, unemployment, frustration amongst general populace and above all the religious sectarian and ethno-linguistic fanaticism and violence.

South Asian countries in general and India and Pakistan in particular need do no more than draw lessons from Europe, whose post-wart history is roughly the same length as our two nations. The European Union, which emerged out of the dictates of the economic well being of its people and the desire to fully actualize their individual potential in a collective manner, is a live demonstration of the possibilities that can be envisaged by the dynamic minds of visionary leaders. We should yearn for the day when we have a Common Union, perhaps even a Common currency while maintaining our sovereignties and dignities intact. We have the SAARC more in form than in content due to the rancor, which has blinded us.

South Asia remains of the most integrated regions of the world. We are looking forward to the implementation of the SAFTA (South Asia free Trade Agreement) in January 2006 as outlined in the SAARC declaration of January 2004 in Islamabad. The creation of a free trade zone along with some degree of economic integration of SAARC countries could turn the region into a huge regional economic market, second only to China in terms of size. If futuristically developed along with a network of roads and railway connections to South East Asia and Central Asia the future of our seceding generations would indeed be bright. Restrictions on bilateral trade have forced both countries to import goods from third countries, which could have been traded for more economically and efficiently from each other. Indo-Pak trade would ensure cheaper raw material, low transportation, less insurance costs etc resulting in potential for quality products at competitive prices for consumers in both countries and larger markets for manufacturers.

Having resolved the external issues, South Asian countries in general need to put their houses in order. They should stop discriminations on the basis of ethnicity, religion or descent. I request the Government of Pakistan to recognize and indemnify all the religious and ethno-linguistic and minorities and treat them equally to foster a sense of ethnic linguistic pluralism and nationalism. All the Governments in the past have deliberately strengthened ethno-linguistic particularism in Pakistan under the rubrics of majority and power. In democracy, only the members should not count. A state becomes successful only when it is truly able to accommodate the aspirations and the needs of its minorities. Pakistan should genuinely strive to devolve power to the provinces making them fully autonomous, reserving for the Federal administration only Defence, Foreign Affairs and Currency. If the Federation of the United States of America can remain stronger by having fully autonomous states then why should one assume that Federation of Pakistan would weaken if the provinces have fully autonomous status?
9
Mainstream political forces, including the MQM, equipped with liberal and progressive ideological underpinnings have the capability of transforming Pakistan into a democratic and progressive state at peace with itself and its neighbors. They can deliver good governance, an independent judiciary and freedom of the media.

The purpose of this conference is to discuss and prepare a "Road Map" for the economic, strategic and political future of India in relation to the world and the regional countries. To attain this objective we should find out the "Key" to achieve positive results, which is peace in the South Asia region. The region is the first gate to be opened for, and then we should proceed to open the second gate, which is the World. The word "Peace" is catalyst to positivism, success, prosperity, harmony, better economy, better understanding and relations with their neighbors.

If the regional countries have peace and better relations then it would ultimately draw the remaining world towards the region. The peace is the only and only "Key" through which India could have improved and long lasting relations with the world but for this peace has to be established in the region first. The benefits that could be drawn by the South Asian Countries including Pakistan through peace could never be achieved through the use of nuclear weapons, atom bombs, chemical and biological weapons and a massive army. India and Pakistan have considered each other as enemies since independence but now to achieve the sacred objective of peace, better and long-lasting relations, both countries have to engage in a meaningful and sincere dialogue and cease all hostilities against each other.

Finally, I think South Asia needs to have a comprehensive human rights code that protects the people from unbridled state power. Freedom from poverty, hunger, illiteracy and provision of basic services be part of the human rights of the people of the sub-continent and our governments should be promoting an environment in which the people of the sub-continent achieve what people of other regions have achieved through peace and co-operation.

Link: http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/specials/leadership2005/summit2004/altaf_hussain.pdf
 
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ConcernedPakistani

MPA (400+ posts)
He said the division of the sub-continent was the greatest, greatest blunder in the history of mankind

again he said GREATEST BLUNDER. At the end he appeals to Indian Human rights, Opposition and Indian Government to forgive Mahajirs and give them protection
 

GeoG

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
????? ???? ???? ?? ????? ??? ????????? ???? ??????? ?? ???? ??


Division of Blood


???? ???? ?? ?? ????? ????? ???? ????????? ????? ????? ??? ???? ????? ?? ???? ???? ?? ??? ?? ?? ??? ??????? ?? ????????


Let the people hear this once more and then we can analyze it in light of your explanations.


[youtube]


Part of the TV interview you have attached is an effort to eye wash the blunder and I call it MUTINY he committed in India.

The explanations given in that interview to damage control, which you have repeated below are rubbish too because you are saying now what Moulana Moudidi and Muslim Leaders in Congress were saying to oppose the creation of Pakistan. If you did not agree with the division, why bother coming here, should have stayed back, in fact most WELCOME to GO BACK.



?? ????? ?? ?? ?????? ?? ????? ?? ??????? ??? ??? ???? ??? ??? ??? ?? ?? ???? ???? ????? ??? ?? ??? ?? ??? ????? ???????????? ?? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?? ????? ???? ??????????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ?? ????? ??? ??????? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??????? ??? ??? ????? ?? ??? ????? ??????? ??? ?? ???? ?? ???? ????? ??? ??? ??? ??????? ????? ???? ?? ????? ??? ????? ???? ?? ?? ????? ???? ??? ?? ???? ? ?????? ?? ??? ??????? ??? ???? ?????????



?? ????? ?? ?? ??????? ?? ?? ????????????? ?? ??????? ?? ?? ?? ????? ?? ???? ??? ????? ??? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ?????? ?? ?? ?????? ????? ?????? ????????? ?? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ?? ????? ???????????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ????


If there was any more than what is available, your GOOD GUY Productions would have played it hundred thousand times here but the truth is there is no part and you are just making an excuse.
If there is any part people have not seen, play it here.



??????: ??? ??? ??????? ?? ?????? ??? ??? ???


Division of Blood


???? ?? ???? ????? ??? ??????? ??????? ?????



????? ?? ?? ?? ???? ?? ????? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ???? ?? ???? ??? ??? ?? ?? ?? ???? ????? ???? ?? ????? ???? ???? ?? ????? ??? ?? ???? ???? ????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ??? ???? ????? ????? ?? ??? "????" ?? ??? ??? ??? ??????? ????? ?? ?? ?? ???? ?????? ??? ?? ?? ????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ???? ?? ???????? ??? ?????


Aur Kitni Safai?
Your media cell has been trying to wash this Klank from your face but it is never going to fade, aur Qabar Tak Yeh Tumharay Sath Hi Gayay Ga Balkay Qabar Main Bi Yehi Azab Ic Jahanami Ko Khay Ga,
other being Qadyani, of course.


?????? ??????? ?? ???? ???? ??? ?? ???? ???? ????? ??? ?? ????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ??? "??? ??????" ???? ??????? ?? ????



????? ?? ?? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ?? ???????? ? ???? ???? ?? ??????? ?? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ?? ????? ??? ?? ?? ???????? ?? ??? ?? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ??????? ????? ?? ????? ??? ???? ??? ??????? ?? ???? ??? ?????? ?? ???? ??? ??????? ??? ????? ? ???? ?? ??? ???? ????? ???????? ????? ???? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ?? ????? ?? ???? ???? ??? ?????? ?????????



??? ?? ?? ??? ?? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ?????? ????? ?? ???? "?????" ?????? ??? ?? ??? ?? ????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ???? ?????? ???? ?? ??? ?? ?? ???? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ??? ?????? ???? ?? ?? ?? ???



?????? ?? ?? ???? ????? ??? ?? ???????????? ?? ????? ?? ???????? ?? ?? ???? ????? ?? ?? ???? ???? ??? ?? ??????????? ?? ??? ?? ?? ?????? ?????? ???????? ?? ?? ??????? ????? ????? ???? ????? ?????? ???



????? ???? ?? ?? ???? ?? ???? ????? ???????? ???? ?? ????? ???? ?? ???



????: ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ?????????? ?? ???? ????



Quote: Do Quomi Nazirya Rad Kartay Huay Alag Ho Gayay
Wonder Tum Logon Kay Demagh Ki Frequency Kharab Hai Ya Demagh Siray Say Moujood Hi Nahi!
East Pakistan did not merge back into India so it is a failure of Do Quomi Nazirya?
One arrogant politician namely Bhutto (Sindhi if you don’t it) did not accept Sheikh Mujeeb ur Rehman’s mendate and India used people like Altaf Hussain to split us into two countries.

Even Bengalis never thought to merge with India and kept Do Quomi identity, which your leader questions.




??????? ?? ????? ??? ?? ?? ??? ??? ????? ??? ?????? ?? ???????? ?? ??? ?? ?? ????? ?? ??? ???? ??? ???? ?????? ?????????? ?? ??????? ?? ??? ?? ?? ????? ???????? ??? ????



?????? ????? ???????? ?? ????? ????????? ????? ?? ???????? ?? ???? ??? ??? ??? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ??????? ?? ?????? ?? ??? ??? ????



??? ??????? ???? ??? ?? ????? ?????????? ????? ?? ??? ??? ???? ??? ???? ?? ?? ??????? ? ???? ??? ???? ?? ?? ??? ???????? ??? ??? ?? ???? ????? ? ??? ??????? ???? ??? ????? ??????? ??? ?? ?? ???????? ???? ??? ????? ???? ??? ???? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ?????? ??? ????????




Many of my grandfather’s family got killed en-route to Lahore in July 1947 so this is not exclusive to people in Karachi - relatives of people living all over Pakistan gave their lives for the country they wanted to live in.



??? ??? ????? ????? ???? ????? ?????????? ??? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ?? ????? ???????? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ??? ???? ??????? ?? ??? ?? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ???????? ???? ?? ??????? ???? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ??? ?? ???? ???? ?? ???? ???? ???



????? ?? ?? ?????? ?????? ?? ?? ?????????? ??? ??????? ????? ??? ??????? ??? ?? ???? ????? ?? ???? ?? ?? ????? ?????????? ?? ????? ???????? ?? ??? ???? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ??? ?? ?? ??? ??? ?????????? ???? ?? ?? ???????? ???????? ?? ???? ????? ???????? ?? ??? ??? ?????????? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ????? ???? ?????? ?? ?????? ?? ??? ?????? ???? ?? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ??? ???? ??????? ????? ?? ???? ?? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ????????? ???? ?? ????? ???????? ?? ??? ? ??? ?? ???? ????? ??? ??? ???????? ?????????? ??????? ?? ??? ?? ??? ???? ????



??? ?? ??????? ?? ?? ?? ????? ?????????? ?? ??? ??? ??? ??????? ?? ???? ?? ??? ??? ??? ?? ?? ?? ?? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ???????? ????



?? ?? ?? ??? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ?? ???? ?? ?? ?? ????????? ???? ??? ??? ?? ?? ??? ??????? ?? ??? ????? ??? ????? ?? 16 ????? ??????? ?? 18 ???? ??? ????? ??? ?? 16 ???? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ?? ?? 50 ???? ?????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ????? ???? ?? ???? ?? ???? ?? ?????????? ?? ????? ?? ?????? ??????? ???? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ??? ??? ??????????? ?? ?????? ????? ?????? ?? ??????? ?? ???? ?? ???? ???? ?? ??? ??????? ?? ?? ?????? ????? ???????? ?? ??? ??????? ?? ???????? ?? ????? ??? ???



Correct me if I am wrong, 2-3 percent Muslims suffered the grave consequences or gave their lives en-route to Pakistan so you are suggesting that 98 percent should have lived in misery for 60 years?
The debate that why we have not achieved better standards of life is a separate one as then Zia ul Haq and Musharraf will come in debate and you don’t want to debate the role of these two Charyas, do you.


????? ????? ??? ??? ???? ???? ???? ??????? ?????? ?????? ?? ????? ???



??? ????? ?? ?? ????? ?????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ???? ????? ??? ?? ?? ??? ?????? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ????? ???? ??? ??????? ?? ?????? ?????? ??????? ?? ???? ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ???? ???????? ?????? ??????? ?? ?? ???? ??? ?? ??? ???? ??????????? ?? ??? ??? ???



Division of Blood


??? ????? ?? ??????? ?? ????????? ??? ?? ????? ?? ????



?? ?? ????? ????? ???? ??? ?? ??????? ?????? "???? ???? ?? ?????" ???? ?? ?? ??? 100 ????? ???? ?? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??????????? ??? ?? ????? ???? ??? ??? ??? ????? ??? ?? ?? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??????????? ???? ????? ??? ??? ??? ???? ??? ??? ?? ??? ?? ??? ??? ????? ?? ???? ???????? ????? ???? ?????? ???? ??? ?? ????? ???????? ??? ??????? ?? ?????? ??? ???? ?????? ???? ???????? ??????? ???? ??? ????? ?? ??? ??? ????? ?????? ????? ??????? ??? ?? ?? ?? ????? ????? ??? ????? ??????? ?? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ?? ??????? ?? ?????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???? ??? ?? ?? ??? ??? ?? ?????? ?? ??? ??????? ?? ?? ?? ?? ????? ?? ???? ???? ?? ????? ???????



??? ?? ????? ?????? ??????? ???? ?? ??????? ?? ?? ??????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??????? ?????? ??? ????????? ???? ??????? ??? ????? ???? ??? ????? ???? ????? ?? ??? ?? ?? ??? ?? ?? ??? ???? ????????? ???? ????? ?? ??? ???? ????? ?? ????? ????? ???? ????? ??? ?? ?? ?????????? ?? ????? ???? ??? ?? ??? ???



?? ??????? ?? ???? ?????? ?? ??? ???????????? ??????? ???? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??????? ?? ???????? ?? ?? ?? ???? ? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ???? ??? ??? ????? ???? ???? ????? ??????? ???? ??? ??? ??????? ?? ????? ???



??? ?????? ????? ????? ??????? ?? ??????? ??? ???? ?? ???? ???? ??????? ?? ??? ?? ??? ??? ?? ????? ?? ?? ?? ????? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ????? ??? ??????? ?? ?????? ?????? ??? ??? ??????? ??? ???????? ??? ????? ?? ?? ?? ????? ?? ???? ????? ??? ?? ????? ????? ?? ???? ???? ???? ??? ??? ???? ?? ????? ?? ??? ??? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??? ?????? ????? ???? ??????? ???? ???? ?? ????? ?? ??? ??????? ?? ???? Division of Blood ???? ???? ????? ???? ???? ????? ??? ???? ???? ?????? ?? ??????? ???? ?? ?? ?? ????? ?? ?? ????? ?? ???? ??????



?? ???? ????? ????? ?? ???? ????? ????????? ??? ?? ??? ??? ?? ?? ?? ????? ????? ?? ????? ????? ?? ???? ??? ?? ???????? ????? ?? ??????? ????? ??? ?? ?? ????? ???? ?? ???? ??? ?? ?? ?? ????? ????? ?? ??? ????? ?? ?????? ?????? ??? ?????? ????? ?????? ??????? ?? ???? ????????? ?? ???? ????? ?? ????? ?? ??????? ?? ???? ?? ?? ???? ???? ????????



??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?? ????? ????? ??????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ????? ?? ????? ??? ?? ????? ??? ???? ?? ??? ?? ???????


I would certainly recommend Pakistani Govt to bring back people of Bangladesh who call them Pakistanis. If we can offer refuge to 5 million Afghans, we certainly can accommodate these 100 thousand individuals who take pride in calling themselves as Pakistanis. They are as goods Pakistanis as myself or may be even better.

We were 50 odd years into our independence when Altaf Hussain made this notorious address in India and if you question the creation of my nation after two generation, I have the right to question your Mohib e Watni, especially you apply for the nationality of another country and still want to be head of a Fascist Style party in another country which happens to be my Beloved Pakistan.
 
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Jury

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Allama Iqbal & Altaf Hussain Same Thoughts ????? ??? ????? ??? ???? ???

????? ??? ????? ??? ???? ???
Allama Iqbal & Altaf Hussain Same Thoughts

 

rahat

Senator (1k+ posts)

Pakistan is a gift from ALLAH to all the Muslim. It is the reflection of order of ALLAH given in QURAN Surey Al-Nisa, Ayut 97-98:

“Verily! As for those whom the Angels have taken (in death) while they are wronging themselves (as they stayed among the disbelievers even though emigration was obligatory to them), they (angels) asked them, "In what condition were you?". They replied, "We were weak and oppressed on earth". The Angels asked, "Was not the earth of Allah spacious enough for you to migrate therein?" Such men will find their abode in Hell - what an evil destination! Except the weak ones among men, women and children who were unable to devise a plan, nor are they able to direct their way”

ALLAH created Pakistan to give chance to the Muslims to stay away from Hindus “Disbelievers”.
The peoples who followed order of ALLAH are the real Muslims and the peoples who opted to live with Hindus are bearing the results of disobeying ALLAH’s orders. Their conditions are worsening then the lowest cast Hindu’s “Dilates”.

So whatever, these peoples of Hindus influenced says, must be consider in the light of basic order of ALLAH given in QURAN.

Despite the corrupt leadership, still Pakistan is a better place to live and see how the Muslims live in India like slaves. They violated QURAN’S order and now bearing result of it. The situation can be realize from the fact that at the time of independence only a small segment of Urdu speaking peoples living in UP, CP, Bihar etc. migrated to Pakistan. It was due to their non-faith of ALLAH and Pakistan’s survival as was of Hindus. The complete migration was done in Punjab and Bagal.
After passing few years these Urdu speaking peoples of India witnessed the existence of Pakistan then they start coming to Pakistan after selling their properties and bringing fake degrees and property documents to get claims in Pakistan. It can be visualized from the facts that the population of Karachi was about 6 laces till 1952 and the rapid increase in their population was the result of their illegal migration after long time of independence. But still the peoples of Sindh gave them full accommodation from their shares and eventually they become the privileged classes.
But still after getting undue share in the wealth their hearts are full of love with Hindus as seen from their criminal leader altaf speech in India, where he termed the creation of Pakistan the “biggest blunder”, which amount to disobey the order of ALLAH given in QURAN.
 

Zaidi Qasim

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
What a piece of crap these MQM and Altaf Lovers trying to present. Total insanity and turing the truth upside down. I do not think even Altaf would have thought about these excuses when he was uttering those words. Even with all the problems and its difficulties, I would prefer Pakistan over India anytime, any moment any day. Stop fooling around with home made excuses Guys. This is utter nonsense which you coming up and comparing with it today. He said" I would have opposed the movement of Pakistan" , He did not say after 60 years of experience taught him that and he had second thought about it, but he was blunt, he said he would have opposed the movement at that time. Not after 60 years or so, but back in 1947.So, don't give an excuses that Pakistan has not accomplished what it started with and since it didn't accomplish, Altaf was right to oppose it. Why he would apologize to Hindus for the creation of Muslim Country ? He can go back and live there if he thinks it was a blender. I think he is a little rat. He is not a leader but a bafoon who is good at poking jokes , getting crowd and making funny voices.
 

Jury

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Pakistan is a gift from ALLAH to all the Muslim. It is the reflection of order of ALLAH given in QURAN Surey Al-Nisa, Ayut 97-98:

Verily! As for those whom the Angels have taken (in death) while they are wronging themselves (as they stayed among the disbelievers even though emigration was obligatory to them), they (angels) asked them, "In what condition were you?". They replied, "We were weak and oppressed on earth". The Angels asked, "Was not the earth of Allah spacious enough for you to migrate therein?" Such men will find their abode in Hell - what an evil destination! Except the weak ones among men, women and children who were unable to devise a plan, nor are they able to direct their way

ALLAH created Pakistan to give chance to the Muslims to stay away from Hindus Disbelievers.
The peoples who followed order of ALLAH are the real Muslims and the peoples who opted to live with Hindus are bearing the results of disobeying ALLAHs orders. Their conditions are worsening then the lowest cast Hindus Dilates.

So whatever, these peoples of Hindus influenced says, must be consider in the light of basic order of ALLAH given in QURAN.

Despite the corrupt leadership, still Pakistan is a better place to live and see how the Muslims live in India like slaves. They violated QURANS order and now bearing result of it. The situation can be realize from the fact that at the time of independence only a small segment of Urdu speaking peoples living in UP, CP, Bihar etc. migrated to Pakistan. It was due to their non-faith of ALLAH and Pakistans survival as was of Hindus. The complete migration was done in Punjab and Bagal.
After passing few years these Urdu speaking peoples of India witnessed the existence of Pakistan then they start coming to Pakistan after selling their properties and bringing fake degrees and property documents to get claims in Pakistan. It can be visualized from the facts that the population of Karachi was about 6 laces till 1952 and the rapid increase in their population was the result of their illegal migration after long time of independence. But still the peoples of Sindh gave them full accommodation from their shares and eventually they become the privileged classes.
But still after getting undue share in the wealth their hearts are full of love with Hindus as seen from their criminal leader altaf speech in India, where he termed the creation of Pakistan the biggest blunder, which amount to disobey the order of ALLAH given in QURAN.
It means all the Muslims, who didn't come to Pakistan disobed Quran?
People like Mulana Mododi, Zakir Naik, Abul Kalam Aazad, etc. should be considered in the group of those people, who disobeyed Quran?

 

Jury

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
What a piece of crap these MQM and Altaf Lovers trying to present. Total insanity and turing the truth upside down. I do not think even Altaf would have thought about these excuses when he was uttering those words. Even with all the problems and its difficulties, I would prefer Pakistan over India anytime, any moment any day. Stop fooling around with home made excuses Guys. This is utter nonsense which you coming up and comparing with it today. He said" I would have opposed the movement of Pakistan" , He did not say after 60 years of experience taught him that and he had second thought about it, but he was blunt, he said he would have opposed the movement at that time. Not after 60 years or so, but back in 1947.So, don't give an excuses that Pakistan has not accomplished what it started with and since it didn't accomplish, Altaf was right to oppose it. Why he would apologize to Hindus for the creation of Muslim Country ? He can go back and live there if he thinks it was a blender. I think he is a little rat. He is not a leader but a bafoon who is good at poking jokes , getting crowd and making funny voices.
Everybody knows that, who reads books.
It is nothing but a harsh reality, which was made hidden by those. Who also made this FALSE SOLGAN through there puppet, that,
PAKISTAN KA MATLUM KYA, LAILAHA ILLALLAH.
This sologan was not present at the time of independence movement.
Just like @rahat interpretation,
EVERY MUSLIM SHOULD HAVE DONE MIGRATION FROM INDIA AFTER PAKISTNAN CAME INTO EXISTANCE.
Irony is that, he is quoting QURAN.

 

mehwish_ali

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
GeorG, you have said two things:

by Geog:
Correct me if I am wrong, 2-3 percent Muslims suffered the grave consequences or gave their lives en-route to Pakistan so you are suggesting that 98 percent should have lived in misery for 60 years?

پاکستان کے لیے آپ نے ان تین چار فیصد مسلمانوں کو قربانی کا بکرا بنا دیا اور کہہ رہے ہیں کہ کوئی بات نہیں۔

مگر بات آپ کے اس تین چار فیصد پر ختم نہیں ہوتی کیونکہ انڈیا کے 16 کڑوڑ مسلمان ہیں جو سمجھتے ہیں کہ پاکستان کی وجہ سے وہ قربانی کا بکرا بنے اور انڈیا میں دوسرے درجے کی شہری کی زندگی گذار رہے ہیں۔ ان 16 کڑوڑ ہندوستانی مسلمانوں سے پوچھ کر دیکھئے وہ آپ کی اس تین چار فیصد کے قربانی کے بکرے کی تھیوری سے بالکل متفق نہیں ہوں گے۔

And then you are saying:

by Geog:
I would certainly recommend Pakistani Govt to bring back people of Bangladesh who call them Pakistanis. If we can offer refuge to 5 million Afghans, we certainly can accommodate these 100 thousand individuals who take pride in calling themselves as Pakistanis. They are as goods Pakistanis as myself or may be even better.

آپ کا ذہن ابھی تک اصل حقیقت تک نہیں پہنچ پا رہا ہے۔

بہت اچھی بات ہے کہ آپ بنگلہ دیش میں محصورین پاکستان کی واپسی کی بات کر رہے ہیں۔

مگر کیا آپ نے سوچا دو قومی نظریے کو کلہاڑی مار کر اُس وقت دفن کر دیا گیا تھا جب آزادی کے ایک دو سال بعد ہی بارڈر ہندوستانی مسلمانوں کے لیے بند کر دیے گئے تھے؟

جی ہاں، جن ہندوستانی مسلمانوں نے قیام پاکستان کی تحریک میں بڑھ چڑھ کر حصہ لیا انہی کے لیے انکے مسلمان بھائیوں نے بارڈر کو بند کر دیا۔ تو پھر بتلائیے کہ اس وقت دو قومی نظریہ کہاں گیا؟ دو قومی نظریہ تھا ہندؤوں کے لیے ان کا دیس اور مسلمانوں کے لیے انکا وطن۔ تو آج کوئی اس دو قومی نظریہ کو غلطی کہتا ہے تو کیا غلط کہتا ہے؟ آپ چاہے مانیں یا نہ مانیں، مگر ہندوستان کے کڑوڑوں مسلمان اس دو قومی نظریے پر بننے والی دو مملکتوں کو غلطی مان رہے ہیں۔ آپ ان سے اختلاف کر سکتے ہیں مگر پھر آپ کو انہیں بھی اختلاف رائے کا حق دینا ہو گا۔

اگلا بہانہ یہ ہوتا ہے کہ ہم نے ہندوستانی مسلمانوں کے لیے دروازے اس لیے بند کر دیے کیونکہ پاکستان کے پاس وسائل نہیں تھے کہ ان سب کو قبول کر سکے۔ تو بھائی یہ تو پھر آپ ہی کی غلطی ہوئی نا کہ جب آپ کو پتا تھا کہ پاکستان کے لیے ممکن ہی نہیں کہ وہ تمام مسلمانوں کو اپنے اندر سمو سکے اور آدھے مسلمان جن کی تعداد کڑوڑوں میں ہے، وہ ہندؤوں کے رحم و کرم پر آ جائیں گے تو پھر آپ نے ان کڑوڑوں مسلمانوں کے زندگی کو داؤ پر کیوں لگا دیا؟

حیرت ہے کہ آپ کو بنگلہ دیش میں دو ڈھائی لاکھ محصورین پاکستان کا دکھ تو ہے (جو اچھی بات ہے)، مگر افسوس یہ ہے کہ کبھی آپ نے ہندوستان میں موجود 16 کڑوڑ مسلمانوں کی حالت کے متعلق نہیں سوچا۔

شکر ہے کہ قیام پاکستان کے وقت گاندھی جی جیسے لوگ ہندؤوں میں موجود تھے کہ جنہوں نے امن کا درس دیا اور یہ کڑوڑوں مسلمان ہندؤوں کے رحم و کرم پر ہوتے ہوئے بھی قتل و غارت کا شکار نہیں ہوئے۔

قیام پاکستان غلطی نہ تھا بلکہ امتحان تھا


بہرحال، میری اپنی ذاتی رائے نہ آپ کے موافق ہے اور نہ ہندوستانی مسلمانوں کے موافق۔ بلکہ میرے نزدیک قیام پاکستان "غلطی" نہیں تھا، بلکہ ایک امتحان تھا۔

اگر ہم قائد اعظم اور علامہ اقبال کے پاکستان کو ترقی کی راہوں پر رواں دواں رکھتے اور ایک مثالی ملک بن جاتے تو ہم اس امتحان میں کامیاب کہلاتے۔ افسوس کہ ہم نے اپنے ان قائدین کے خوابوں کا بالکل الٹا کیا اور اُن کے لیے ندامت کا باعث بن گئے۔


اگر الطاف حسین جھوٹ بول رہے ہیں تو عمران خان ویڈیو کا اگلا حصہ پیش کر کے انہیں جھوٹا ثابت کر دے


الطاف حسین نے ببانگ دہل میڈیا پر کئی دفعہ آ کر اس ویڈیو کی حقیقت بیان کی ہے کہ اگرچہ انکے نزدیک پاکستان کا قیام ایک سیاسی غلطی تھا، مگر اب پاکستان ایک حقیقت بن چکا ہے جسے ہر کسی کو قبول کرنا چاہیے اور اسی میں دونوں ملکوں کی عوام کی بھلائی ہے۔

تو اگر الطاف حسین جھوٹ بول رہے ہیں تو پھر کیوں عمران خان اس سارے عرصے خاموش بیٹھا ہوا ہے اور کیوں نہیں وہ اس تقریر کا اگلا حصہ بھی پیش کر دیتا اور ثابت کر دیتا کہ الطاف حسین جھوٹ بول رہے ہیں؟ مگر آج تک تو عمران خان کی ہمت نہیں ہوئی کہ ان پر جھوٹ بولنے کا الزام لگا سکے، مگر آپ حضرات یہاں پر ان جھوٹے الزامات کو لڈووں کی طرح بانٹ رہے ہوتے ہیں اور اس جھوٹ سے اپنا منہ میٹھا کر رہے ہوتے ہیں۔

ذرا آنکھیں کھولیے۔ غور کیجئے تو آپ کو نظر آئے گا کہ الطاف حسین پاکستان کے قیام کو مسلمان خون کی تقسیم تو کہہ رہے ہیں مگر وہ پاکستان توڑنے کی بات نہیں کر رہے ہیں، بلکہ وہ پاکستان کو ایک حقیقت کی طرح قبول کرنے کی بات کر رہے ہیں، پاکستان کے قائم و دائم رہنے کی بات کر رہے ہیں، وہ پاکستان اور انڈیا کی عوام کی اور اس پورے خطے کی بھلائی کی بات کر رہے ہیں۔​
 

GeoG

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
GeorG, you have said two things:


I have said many things including your understanding of Do Quomi Nazriya and Qadyani but you probably considered two week points in my response, never mind but before that if you are deliberately misspelling my name, I will have no option but to call your pet name K* Zuban Wali, so you get benefit of doubt this time but not next time.

پاکستان کے لیے آپ نے ان تین چار فیصد مسلمانوں کو قربانی کا بکرا بنا دیا اور کہہ رہے ہیں کہ کوئی بات نہیں۔​

مگر بات آپ کے اس تین چار فیصد پر ختم نہیں ہوتی کیونکہ انڈیا کے 16 کڑوڑ مسلمان ہیں جو سمجھتے ہیں کہ پاکستان کی وجہ سے وہ قربانی کا بکرا بنے اور انڈیا میں دوسرے درجے کی شہری کی زندگی گذار رہے ہیں۔ ان 16 کڑوڑ ہندوستانی مسلمانوں سے پوچھ کر دیکھئے وہ آپ کی اس تین چار فیصد کے قربانی کے بکرے کی تھیوری سے بالکل متفق نہیں ہوں گے۔​


And then you are saying:



آپ کا ذہن ابھی تک اصل حقیقت تک نہیں پہنچ پا رہا ہے۔​

بہت اچھی بات ہے کہ آپ بنگلہ دیش میں محصورین پاکستان کی واپسی کی بات کر رہے ہیں۔​

مگر کیا آپ نے سوچا دو قومی نظریے کو کلہاڑی مار کر اُس وقت دفن کر دیا گیا تھا جب آزادی کے ایک دو سال بعد ہی بارڈر ہندوستانی مسلمانوں کے لیے بند کر دیے گئے تھے؟​

جی ہاں، جن ہندوستانی مسلمانوں نے قیام پاکستان کی تحریک میں بڑھ چڑھ کر حصہ لیا انہی کے لیے انکے مسلمان بھائیوں نے بارڈر کو بند کر دیا۔ تو پھر بتلائیے کہ اس وقت دو قومی نظریہ کہاں گیا؟ دو قومی نظریہ تھا ہندؤوں کے لیے ان کا دیس اور مسلمانوں کے لیے انکا وطن۔ تو آج کوئی اس دو قومی نظریہ کو غلطی کہتا ہے تو کیا غلط کہتا ہے؟ آپ چاہے مانیں یا نہ مانیں، مگر ہندوستان کے کڑوڑوں مسلمان اس دو قومی نظریے پر بننے والی دو مملکتوں کو غلطی مان رہے ہیں۔ آپ ان سے اختلاف کر سکتے ہیں مگر پھر آپ کو انہیں بھی اختلاف رائے کا حق دینا ہو گا۔​

اگلا بہانہ یہ ہوتا ہے کہ ہم نے ہندوستانی مسلمانوں کے لیے دروازے اس لیے بند کر دیے کیونکہ پاکستان کے پاس وسائل نہیں تھے کہ ان سب کو قبول کر سکے۔ تو بھائی یہ تو پھر آپ ہی کی غلطی ہوئی نا کہ جب آپ کو پتا تھا کہ پاکستان کے لیے ممکن ہی نہیں کہ وہ تمام مسلمانوں کو اپنے اندر سمو سکے اور آدھے مسلمان جن کی تعداد کڑوڑوں میں ہے، وہ ہندؤوں کے رحم و کرم پر آ جائیں گے تو پھر آپ نے ان کڑوڑوں مسلمانوں کے زندگی کو داؤ پر کیوں لگا دیا؟​

حیرت ہے کہ آپ کو بنگلہ دیش میں دو ڈھائی لاکھ محصورین پاکستان کا دکھ تو ہے (جو اچھی بات ہے)، مگر افسوس یہ ہے کہ کبھی آپ نے ہندوستان میں موجود 16 کڑوڑ مسلمانوں کی حالت کے متعلق نہیں سوچا۔​

شکر ہے کہ قیام پاکستان کے وقت گاندھی جی جیسے لوگ ہندؤوں میں موجود تھے کہ جنہوں نے امن کا درس دیا اور یہ کڑوڑوں مسلمان ہندؤوں کے رحم و کرم پر ہوتے ہوئے بھی قتل و غارت کا شکار نہیں ہوئے۔​

قیام پاکستان غلطی نہ تھا بلکہ امتحان تھا

بہرحال، میری اپنی ذاتی رائے نہ آپ کے موافق ہے اور نہ ہندوستانی مسلمانوں کے موافق۔ بلکہ میرے نزدیک قیام پاکستان "غلطی" نہیں تھا، بلکہ ایک امتحان تھا۔​

Independence had its PRICE, we paid it.

2-3 percent were not Qurbani Ka Bakra but our forefathers who gave blood for our nationhood, we will always indebted and thankful to them, including my personal family.

What a shame that despite paying this price, IDIOTS like Altaf Hussain and his followers are calling it a Blunder.

Some of the Muslims who remained in India surely wanted to come to Pakistan but there were many who never thought to migrate.

I really wonder in your logic that you pretend keh India Kay Muslman Bohat Buri Halat Main Hain Aur Tumharay Dil Main Un Kay Liyay Bohat Dard Hai and you want the Muslims in Pakistan to have the same fate - life of misery (as per yourself) by calling partition a blunder.

One more thing, get your freakin fact right, borders were closed from Indian side not Pakistan, Pakistan closed the border only after 1948 war, yeh spin doctori na Karo, people know the facts here.


اگر ہم قائد اعظم اور علامہ اقبال کے پاکستان کو ترقی کی راہوں پر رواں دواں رکھتے اور ایک مثالی ملک بن جاتے تو ہم اس امتحان میں کامیاب کہلاتے۔ افسوس کہ ہم نے اپنے ان قائدین کے خوابوں کا بالکل الٹا کیا اور اُن کے لیے ندامت کا باعث بن گئے۔​


اگر الطاف حسین جھوٹ بول رہے ہیں تو عمران خان ویڈیو کا اگلا حصہ پیش کر کے انہیں جھوٹا ثابت کر دے

الطاف حسین نے ببانگ دہل میڈیا پر کئی دفعہ آ کر اس ویڈیو کی حقیقت بیان کی ہے کہ اگرچہ انکے نزدیک پاکستان کا قیام ایک سیاسی غلطی تھا، مگر اب پاکستان ایک حقیقت بن چکا ہے جسے ہر کسی کو قبول کرنا چاہیے اور اسی میں دونوں ملکوں کی عوام کی بھلائی ہے۔​

تو اگر الطاف حسین جھوٹ بول رہے ہیں تو پھر کیوں عمران خان اس سارے عرصے خاموش بیٹھا ہوا ہے اور کیوں نہیں وہ اس تقریر کا اگلا حصہ بھی پیش کر دیتا اور ثابت کر دیتا کہ الطاف حسین جھوٹ بول رہے ہیں؟ مگر آج تک تو عمران خان کی ہمت نہیں ہوئی کہ ان پر جھوٹ بولنے کا الزام لگا سکے، مگر آپ حضرات یہاں پر ان جھوٹے الزامات کو لڈووں کی طرح بانٹ رہے ہوتے ہیں اور اس جھوٹ سے اپنا منہ میٹھا کر رہے ہوتے ہیں۔​


We are not professional like Jury and Good Guy on Youtube that we can pick up three words from a long sentence and repeat it ten times in a short clip, however I have seen that interview and the complete sentence he said and I quote


If we were to live under these kind of leaders (meaning AZ, NS, Kalwa, Moulana Diesel, et ) forever, it was better that Pakistan was not made as all the hopes and aspirations of the people who made Pakistan (and you charya lot decided to join them) were dashed.

Now compare this statement with Kalway's Baigarat Takreer in India




ذرا آنکھیں کھولیے۔ غور کیجئے تو آپ کو نظر آئے گا کہ الطاف حسین پاکستان کے قیام کو مسلمان خون کی تقسیم تو کہہ رہے ہیں مگر وہ پاکستان توڑنے کی بات نہیں کر رہے ہیں، بلکہ وہ پاکستان کو ایک حقیقت کی طرح قبول کرنے کی بات کر رہے ہیں، پاکستان کے قائم و دائم رہنے کی بات کر رہے ہیں، وہ پاکستان اور انڈیا کی عوام کی اور اس پورے خطے کی بھلائی کی بات کر رہے ہیں۔​

He can say whatever he likes now lakin kuman say nikla teer aur munh say niklay alfaz kabi wapis nahi aatay aur woh bi aik international forum par, hamaray dushmano kay ghar par, SHAME.

By Defending this Address you are exposing yourself more and more.
 

sooper

Voter (50+ posts)
Sab ki bat nahi ho rahi sirf altaf hussain or us ke rabta cometee ke jo khas member hain un ka yahi khayal hey ke pakistan banna aik galat faisla tha aam log aisa nahi samaghte
 

YAHYA87

Senator (1k+ posts)
@GeoG

Your claims of just 2-3% is not even close to the percentage of those who suffered due to partition as now India has almost same number of Muslims as in Pakistan and what kind of live they are living is also well known to us all and their are another country which was directly a party in this partition whose population is also very close to Pakistan's population and that is Bangladesh so by dividing Muslims of subcontinent into three parts you think that we achieved our Nazariya-e-Pakistan?????people are still suffering due to partition as if there was no partition Kashmir issue wont have taken place and also there would have been a strong voice which would be enough to show Hindus there real faces if they even dared to speak Babri Masjid....
Even if Nazariya-e-pakistan was for the benefit of Subcontinent's Muslims then tell me who took responsibility of protecting it after creation of Pakistan???Fatima Jinnah whom supported by a person like Sheikh Mujeebur Rehman lost which could have been the last hope for Nazariya-e-Pakistan and later Ayub khan took over....Do you think today's Muslim Leagues (A to Z group) are the real protector of Nazariya-e-Pakistan???they are nothing but a protectors of Dictatorships in Pakistan in the past as the real Muslim League was broken apart after fatima Jinnah into many different parties and Awaami League of Bangladesh had many Muslim League members with them even the real supporters of Muslim League were from Lalu Khet where after winning elections from all over pakistan son of Ayub Khan celebrated victory by violence and bloodshed of people of laluKhet which is today a support base of MQM...these are many facts that are enough for Altaf Hussain to say those things which he said in India....
 

Zaidi Qasim

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Everybody knows that, who reads books.
It is nothing but a harsh reality, which was made hidden by those. Who also made this FALSE SOLGAN through there puppet, that,
PAKISTAN KA MATLUM KYA, LAILAHA ILLALLAH.
This sologan was not present at the time of independence movement.
Just like @rahat interpretation,
EVERY MUSLIM SHOULD HAVE DONE MIGRATION FROM INDIA AFTER PAKISTNAN CAME INTO EXISTANCE.
Irony is that, he is quoting QURAN.


Now this discussion is not about what Altaf said but rather what MQM thinks of Pakistan. According to you, Pakistan was not created for the Muslims and this is a false slogan to combine our faith( Kalma) with the creation of Pakistan. And this is precisely I wanted to hear from you( liberal and enlighted group). I guess Pakistan was created so you can come back here from majority hindus and get a large part of real estate for yourself and your families,and start a secular country where ' deen e illahi" could be revived again under your pir and other dictators.what a shame that in order to prove your Pir's speech right, you hammering the concept of Pakistan with your filthy words. Stop using these words for a country which was created on the name of Islam. Your leader has done enough to degrade Pakistan in front of Hindu audience, you do not need to changed the meaning of our slogan and change our sacrifies.Instead of working to fulfill our dreams for a better Pakistan, you guys are raising false concepts and working to raise doubts for the creation of our country. This is what I always expect form those who divide and rule.
 
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Jury

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Now this discussion is not about what Altaf said but rather what MQM thinks of Pakistan. According to you, Pakistan was not created for the Muslims and this is a false slogan to combine our faith( Kalma) with the creation of Pakistan. And this is precisely I wanted to hear from you( liberal and enlighted group). I guess Pakistan was created so you can come back here from majority hindus and get a large part of real estate for yourself and your families,and start a secular country where ' deen e illahi" could be revived again under your pir and other dictators.what a shame that in order to prove your Pir's speech right, you hammering the concept of Pakistan with your filthy words. Stop using these words for a country which was created on the name of Islam. Your leader has done enough to degrade Pakistan in front of Hindu audience, you do not need to changed the meaning of our slogan and change our sacrifies.Instead of working to fulfill our dreams for a better Pakistan, you guys are raising false concepts and working to raise doubts for the creation of our country. This is what I always expect form those who divide and rule.
Go and read books.
Find historians. Even you can find in Pakistan very easily. If you live in Lahore, it is very easy for you.
 

YAHYA87

Senator (1k+ posts)
Now this discussion is not about what Altaf said but rather what MQM thinks of Pakistan. According to you, Pakistan was not created for the Muslims and this is a false slogan to combine our faith( Kalma) with the creation of Pakistan. And this is precisely I wanted to hear from you( liberal and enlighted group). I guess Pakistan was created so you can come back here from majority hindus and get a large part of real estate for yourself and your families,and start a secular country where ' deen e illahi" could be revived again under your pir and other dictators.what a shame that in order to prove your Pir's speech right, you hammering the concept of Pakistan with your filthy words. Stop using these words for a country which was created on the name of Islam. Your leader has done enough to degrade Pakistan in front of Hindu audience, you do not need to changed the meaning of our slogan and change our sacrifies.Instead of working to fulfill our dreams for a better Pakistan, you guys are raising false concepts and working to raise doubts for the creation of our country. This is what I always expect form those who divide and rule.
For me Pakistan is made for all those who call themselves Muslims not just for those who think they are Muslims and others are not because they believe on different aspect as theres....Pakistan was made for Muslims but not made for Mullahs as Mullahs rejected idea of Pakistan on the very first place and after its creation they came here to eat its fruit which was actually buread by Muslim League not by JI JUI and I am talking about real Muslim League not the once like PML(A-Z) the real Muslim league was Muslim League of Quaid-e-Azam, Liaqat Ali Khan and last but not the least Fatima Jinnah and there real supporters were people of Lalu Khet whom supported them till the death of Fatima Jinnah despite going through massacre after victory of Ayub Khan....Todays so called thakadars of Islam want nothing but monopoly of Pakistan and thats what we are against..We are against the monopoly of Mullah and especially Mullahs of one sect. because there are many sects. in Pakistan who call themselves Muslims and also want the Islamic domination...If anyone want to make Pakistan a Pakistan of Mullah then he should go to Saudia Arabia and Iran because these countries have Mullahs monopoly and these countries only puts restriction on others who call themselves Muslims like Saudia treat Shia as non Muslims and Iran treat Sunnis as non Muslims but Pakistan dont suppose to be like them...Pakistan should be like Malaysia, Indonesia where even non Muslims are treated well....this is what MQM supporters want Pakistan to be...
 

mehwish_ali

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
by GeoG:
We are not professional like Jury and Good Guy on Youtube that we can pick up three words from a long sentence and repeat it ten times in a short clip, however I have seen that interview and the complete sentence he said and I quote

If we were to live under these kind of leaders (meaning AZ, NS, Kalwa, Moulana Diesel, et ) forever, it was better that Pakistan was not made as all the hopes and aspirations of the people who made Pakistan (and you charya lot decided to join them) were dashed.

اگر عمران خان، اسکی پوری پارٹی اور آپ لوگ اتنے ہی نااہل ہیں کہ ایک ویڈیو کو بھی بنا کر آنلائن نہ کر سکیں تو پھر آپ پاکستان کو کیا چلائیں گے۔

اور الطاف حسین کی پوری تقریر صرف اس ایک جملے پر مشتمل نہیں تھی بلکہ یہ تو صرف وہ حصہ ہے تو تراش خراش کر عمران خان نے ہوشیاری کے ساتھ پوری تقریر سے نکالا تھا تاکہ وہ اپنے جھوٹے الزام کو پاؤں پر کھڑا کر سکے کہ الطاف حسین نے پاکستان توڑنے کی بات کی ہے۔

مگر جھوٹ کبھی چل نہیں سکتا اور واپس آ کر جھوٹ بولنے والا کا ہی منہ کالا کرتا ہے۔ الطاف حسین نے اپنی تقریر میں کہیں بھی پاکستان توڑنے کی بات نہیں کی ہے بلکہ پاکستان کے قیام و دائم رہنے کی بات ہندو ریاست میں اُن کے سامنے کی ہے کہ پاکستان اب ایک حقیقت ہے جسے تسلیم کر کے اس خطے کی عوام کے مسائل کے حل کرنا چاہیے۔

مگر جھوٹے بہتان تراشوں نے تقریر کا یہ حصہ نکال کر کہ تقسیم ہند (جو کہ اصل میں خونِ مسلمانانَ ہند تھی اور ہندووں سے کہیں گنا زیادہ نقصان مسلمانوں کو اٹھانا پڑا) ایک غلطی تھی، اس پر بہتان باندھ دیا کہ الطاف حسین پاکستان توڑنے کی بات کر رہا ہے۔

اس طرح بات کو سیاق و سباق سے نکال کر تو اسلام مخالف لوگوں نے قرآن پاک کو بھی ظالم و جابر کتاب ثابت کرنے کی ناپاک کوششیں کی ہیں اور یہ سب کچھ قابل شرم بات ہے۔


Sab ki bat nahi ho rahi sirf altaf hussain or us ke rabta cometee ke jo khas member hain un ka yahi khayal hey ke pakistan banna aik galat faisla tha aam log aisa nahi samaghte

محترم، گستاخی معاف مگر آپ کا یہ اندھا انصاف ہمیں قبول نہیں کہ جس میں جب جی چاہتا ہے تو دو قومی نظریہ کے نام پر اسلام اور مسلمانان ہند کے حقوق کی آواز اٹھائے جانے لگتی ہے، اور جب جی چاہتا تو مسلمانانِ ہند کو دودھ میں سے مکھی طرح نکال کر باہر پھینک دیا جاتا ہے۔ یہ دوغلا انصاف آپ کو ہی مبارک۔ ہمیں آپ معاف رکھئیے۔