Science, Arts, Belief, Right & Wrong...

[Iconoclast]

we cannot get ahead in science and technology bcz we dont have system and opportunity..

Pakitanis when go for masters and doctorate have done wonders..
the fact that we have stayed behind is massively affected by int politics as well..

but what has this todo with this discussion ?

Most of europe, north and south america is agnostic, atheist, far more liberal than any muslim country. Yet the majority of them are shitholes as trump would put it down. His definition of enlightenment is the number of teenage single moms roaming around offering blowjobs for $5. Nevermind the validity of the basis on which they base their faith or lack of it.

 

[HimSar]

i just felt the same ?

sometimes atheists give funny logics
i forget his name but quite a famous atheist once said in a discussion that to explain the intelligent design..some intelligent being sprung out of existence..put the process in order to kick start this intelligent design and then vanished..
i think he was dawkins when he was talking about the beautiful design inside DNA

Yeah, try vanishing for a coffee while the experiment is running. Wake up 500 years later repeating the same, eye bags touching the floor, that coffee still sitting curdled on a side. Doesn't work.
Therefore, can't be the case.

 

[Prince of Dhump]

Let him work one kind of experiment in lab, just one. Repeat it 500 times. Over a span of his choosing. If he gets two identical results, I'll eat my beanie.
No one, no one has that sort of perfect lab journals. In his creations you find occasional aberrations, in perfectly controlled scientific setups, you find occasional similarities. I'm talking biology. You realize when you try repeatedly to reproduce results and you fail. The presence, power and potency of the Designer.

haha actually this logic is absurd
actually when atheist wants the evidence of Creator they want it in the form of a mathematical equation..like how dark matter was discovered that is there should be some anomaly in some equation where then u will fit the Creator and discover him
but once u do that..the next instance u will bring him to laboratory
then u will understand him through science
once u understand him through science, He seize being the creator as He turn into a creation Himself as anything that can be understand means its a creation
then u will need to find the Creator of this ex-Creator

 

[Prince of Dhump]

Most of europe, north and south america is agnostic, atheist, far more liberal than any muslim country. Yet the majority of them are shitholes as trump would put it down. His definition of enlightenment is the number of teenage single moms roaming around offering blowjobs for $5. Nevermind the validity of the basis on which they base their faith or lack of it.

?
and then he talk about logical thinking..

 

[HimSar]

Not the creator himself but the evidence

Don't worry, He'll be around too.

 

[HimSar]

It requires scientific proof just like any other claim in physics/cosmology. It can be measured, verified independently and yields the same result regardless of who is testing the evidence. Also there should be a condition which if satisfied, disproves the claim. Meaning it should be falsifiable.

How very ignorant, man. Regardless of who is testing?! You want someone to optimize the protocol for creating and running the universe and else, and hand it over. And someone will test it. Who? Doesn't matter.!! Get a coffee or some sleep. Do you have a facility or the conditions to test? And isn't this the whole point. That, not anybody can.

 

[HimSar]

You said that you are not atheistic about any god but you lied.

Second you said that you can name mane societies that eat each other, name me one secular human civilization that did that.

You can't be atheistic about any particular God...
And majority of the studies on cannibalistic religious tilts or the lack thereof.. Weren't published. Well, there is India, etc.

 

[Vitamin_C]

Say it in urdu if you are not comfortable with english because I didnt understand a word you said.

How very ignorant, man. Regardless of who is testing?! You want someone to optimize the protocol for creating and running the universe and else, and hand it over. And someone will test it. Who? Doesn't matter.!! Get a coffee or some sleep. Do you have a facility or the conditions to test? And isn't this the whole point. That, not anybody can.

 

[Vitamin_C]

So you cannot be atheistic about Lord Krishna, Horus, and the God with the Monkey and Elephant face. So according to you they exist?

You can't be atheistic about any God...
And majority of the studies on cannibalistic religious tilts or the lack thereof.. Weren't published. Well, there is India, etc.

 

[HimSar]

Its a pitty that Pakistan schools dont teach us how to think business what to think. We can laugh at other people all we want because of our ignorance but we will remain a low class nation of superstitious and unintelligent people while rest of the world progresses.

Wow you're so hung up on Pakistani schools, all the while assuming a lot, that it's rather telling of your bias. And then you lament how ppl here are not taught 'what to think'... Listen to yourself.

 

[Vitamin_C]

Well if someone claims that there is a creator, how would you do your due diligence to confirm their claim or whether they are trying to make you fool?

haha actually this logic is absurd
actually when atheist wants the evidence of Creator they want it in the form of a mathematical equation..like how dark matter was discovered that is there should be some anomaly in some equation where then u will fit the Creator and discover him
but once u do that..the next instance u will bring him to laboratory
then u will understand him through science
once u understand him through science, He seize being the creator as He turn into a creation Himself as anything that can be understand means its a creation
then u will need to find the Creator of this ex-Creator

 

[Vitamin_C]

What did I assume?

Wow you're so hung up on Pakistani schools, all the while assuming a lot, that it's rather telling of your bias. And then you lament how ppl here are not taught 'what to think'... Listen to yourself.

 

[Vitamin_C]

It is clear from those passages that Muslims believed Sun is an orbit around Earth similar to the Moon. While they were right about the moon they were wrong about the sun. There is documented evidence of Muslim authorities threatening Iraqi scientists with Blasphemy when they proved the Quran wrong in this matter.

“(God is) the one Who created the night, the day, the sun and the moon. Each one is travelling in an orbit with its own motion” (Sura 21: 33)

It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law)(Sura 36: 40).

The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west.
And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: ‘And the sun Runs its fixed course for a term (decreed). That is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing.’" (36.38)
Sahih Bukhari

For us it's the center of the universe. Unless you come up with an alien for a fuckbuddy. I'll be the first to denounce my faith. Where does it say everything revolves around the sun. You've mixed up European and Islamic history. I don't blame you. You're a moron.
Ok enough of this bs, no more arguing with an idiot for me. Ignored you are as Jedi would say.

 

[Prince of Dhump]

Well if someone claims that there is a creator, how would you do your due diligence to confirm their claim or whether they are trying to make you fool?

we need to understand the premise of it all first..
i dont need someone to tell me that there is a creator..

what i definitely know(which u will agree with me) that this universe is a creation
the question rises that there has to be a creator for it..

there can be two answers for it..

1. there is a Creator
2. science/physics/nature/natural selection bla bla created it

answer 2 simply cant stand..its flawed atleast till today
im not gonna opt for it unless and until if fully explain the self-explanatory status of universe that it claims and until and unless it solves the mystery of death..

after this comes religion..we have a Sadiq and Amin who claimed to be the messenger of the Creator who gave us a Book..
u can check his claim by constantly questioning the veracity of this Book
if any day u found something extremely illogical in it like we find it in Bible..tell us and we will consider crossing over

 

[HimSar]

So you cannot be atheistic about Lord Krishna, Horus, and the God with the Monkey and Elephant face. So according to you they exist?

Can't be atheistic about any particular one, coz they don't believe in any. Where's the fun in redundancy?!

 

[Prince of Dhump]

It is clear from those passages that Muslims believed Sun is an orbit around Earth similar to the Moon. While they were right about the moon they were wrong about the sun. There is documented evidence of Muslim authorities threatening Iraqi scientists with Blasphemy when they proved the Quran wrong in this matter.

“(God is) the one Who created the night, the day, the sun and the moon. Each one is travelling in an orbit with its own motion” (Sura 21: 33)

It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law)(Sura 36: 40).

The Prophet asked me at sunset, "Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?" I replied, "Allah and His Apostle know better." He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west.
And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: ‘And the sun Runs its fixed course for a term (decreed). That is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing.’" (36.38)
Sahih Bukhari

come on..
what does the belief of muslim has to do with the words of Creator ?
does anything muslim believe = word of God

 

[HimSar]

If you studied in a Pakistani setup, you appear to have a complex, if you didn't, you sound like a snob. And why target pakistani system when the debate is international, or are you targetting specifically?

What did I assume?

 

[Vitamin_C]

Im talking about Pakistani education system because I am a Pakistani.

If you studied in a Pakistani setup, you appear to have a complex, if you didn't, you sound like a snob. And why target pakistani system when the debate is international, or are you targetting specifically?

 

[Vitamin_C]

Muslims believe what the religion teaches them. If the religion teaches them anti-scientific ideas like sun being in a orbit like the moon then thats what Muslims will believe.

come on..
what does the belief of muslim has to do with the words of Creator ?
does anything muslim believe = word of God

 

[HimSar]

Say it in urdu if you are not comfortable with english because I didnt understand a word you said.

Wow bigger font, easy on the eyes, still... Empty.