Science, Arts, Belief, Right & Wrong...

[Prince of Dhump]

He is already with me----- but you need to find him if you like I can help

haha sure ?

 

[Liberal 000]

haha sure ?

Bro it not to laugh you seriously need God in your life The True God

 

[Vitamin_C]

Atheism doesn't say that a creator does not exist.

valid point
but how do they come to this conclusion that Creator does not exist

 

[Prince of Dhump]

Bro it not to laugh you seriously need God in your life The True God

aa okay
could u give an intro..so i can understand properly and get serious

 

[Prince of Dhump]

Atheism doesn't say that a creator does not exist.

are u playing with words and definitions ?
fine..according to atheism, there is not sufficient proof for a Creator to exist
now how do they come to this conclusion..

there exist an intelligent design..where did it come from

 

[Iconoclast]

Atheism is simply not making a judgement on a claim, until you have enough evidence. It basically means, I don't know if there is a God or not and I will not make a judgement until I have sufficient evidence to conclude whether there is a God or not.

That's actually agnosticism you're talking about. Seems like you don't know what Atheism is after all. Atheists "Believe" that there is no Superior Entity/God and the universe is simply a product of chemical and physical laws always referring to scientific theories, discoveries to make their point. Thus that makes atheism a faith, scientific material of the time their scripture and religion hating scientists their saints all for the right to practice their praying rituals of making money no matter how questionable the means. They make it a point to dismiss the notion of a supreme being and will openly mock religion all the while pointing to the signs in sciences of the time. I say signs because science is not necessarily the acquisition of knowledge about something but rather the awareness of it's effects which neither confirm nor belie the existence of God. Yet an atheist will use it as the basis of his "belief" why there is no God and religion is pointless.
Pick a 1000 books about science, any topic, the writer will in 90% of the cases have dedicated a special chapter to God and religion and somehow made it appear relevant.
Carl Sagan in one of his books, I think its the "Pale blue dot", said that "The god of christians and muslims must be a very lavish god if in this vast cosmos, only the earth is harboring life." That's evangelism for god's nihility.
On the other hand we could always take it as the sign of his greatness and our decrepit status in the grand scheme of things.
Morality itself isn't an explicit touchstone. What's immoral to one person could be completely moral to another. Same goes for sin. Irrelevant.

Lets take the Newtonian physics as an example, which once ruled the world, but was eventually proven flawed-- The Law of Gravity by Newton is false. Gravity is still something .......

The laws of gravity itself still stand true. It's proportionality to the masses of objects and it's distances still remains the same as Newton equated. That's the effects of gravity. What's changed however is the definition of what gravity actually is, how it's exerted whether it's electromagnetism, the displacement of space time (current standard belief) or dark matter/energy.
All that's known by modern sciences is still not enough to explain more than 4% of the universe and they have to fall back on to Dark Matter/Energy which is at this point nothing but a figment of imagination since it cannot be detected, not even it's effects unless you believe that the galaxies are held together in clusters and the stars within by dark matter. Which again cannot be proven in any manner possible. An atheist will use it to disprove God. Call it the laws of physics.
Quantum physics is another beast, and no, it's not triumphed by anything, string, supers string, gstring theory. Just like gravity, it's effects are known (Quantum mechanics). What forces drive them isn't however. It alone can undo more than half of the scientific "facts" of the time. Quantum entanglement for instance, which goes against the established "fact" that no stream of information, nothing, can travel faster than the speed of light". Yet atheists will base their declaration on the current scientific knowledge. As "signs" towards the nonexistence of God. We on the other hand take it as the signs of his existence unless it's proven beyond the shadow of doubt to be otherwise.

Vitamin_C what part of translation of the quran did we change to somehow make it compatible with modern sciences? Care to elaborate? Or are you trying to project your views about the bible on Quran? I don't even want to entertain your outlandish remarks about women and islam.
In your view using them as sexual objects is empowering them. A free woman is a woman who strips in bars to feed her kid, at 16.
An atheist believes that life is a product of the primordial soup cooked by the interaction of physical and chemical laws without a shred of evidence. The best way to prove it is by finding life on Europa, no matter in whatever form. Good luck.
Don't even get me started on the suppression of ideas, theories by the atheistic saints of Sciences. They avoid the theory of electric universe because it might lead to the conclusion of there being a supreme entity who is the architect of this universe and all that it contains.

Sohail Shuja great one. Thoroughly enjoyed it and I wish I weren't coming right off a work binge so I could write longer and not go in circles.

 

[Iconoclast]

Tell me in one or two sentence your definition of Atheism? Because I think you do not understand the position of atheism.

Atheism is the belief that there is no God whose disciples are united by their innate desire to mock religion. Example: Why do they want religion completely out of schools when they can easily demand exception for their kids?
Agnosticism is the skepticism about the existence of God and isn't as combative and intolerant as atheism.
It's you who has a diluted understanding of neoAge atheism.

 

[Vitamin_C]

Wrong. Atheists disbelief in a God or Diety due to insufficient evidence. Theres nothing after this.

Agnostics believe that it is not possible to know whether or not a God Exists.

That's actually agnosticism you're talking about. Seems like you don't know what Atheism is after all. Atheists "Believe" that there is no Superior Entity/God and the universe is simply a product of chemical and physical laws always referring to scientific theories, discoveries to make their point.

Sohail Shuja great one. Thoroughly enjoyed it and I wish I weren't coming right off a work binge so I could write longer and not go in circles.

 

[Vitamin_C]

Atheism doesn't mean there is no God. Stop making your own definitions.

Rejection of a position does not necessarily means affirming another.

Atheism is the belief that there is no God whose disciples are united by their innate desire to mock religion. Example: Why do they want religion completely out of schools when they can easily demand exception for their kids?
Agnosticism is the skepticism about the existence of God and isn't as combative and intolerant as atheism.
It's you who has a diluted understanding of neoAge atheism.

 

[Citizen X]

Wrong. Atheists disbelief in a God or Diety due to insufficient evidence. Theres nothing after this.

Agnostics believe that it is not possible to know whether or not a God Exists.

Just out of curiosity, what "evidence" would you require to change your stance i.e what do you or would you consider as proof ?

 

[Iconoclast]

Atheists dont believe there is no God. Stop making your own definitions.

If that's the best you got then you've lost the debate already.
Atheism: Noun. Disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Atheism is, in the broadest sense, the absence of belief in the existence of deities. Less broadly, atheism is the rejection of belief that any deities exist. In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Wikipedia

I will not waste anymore of my time.

 

[Vitamin_C]

I am not playing with words and definitions, I am just giving you the definitions because you do not understand the position of Atheism.

If you think an intelligent designer exists, where is your evidence?

The answer is there is no evidence and therefore you need faith to believe in an intelligent designer.

are u playing with words and definitions ?
fine..according to atheism, there is not sufficient proof for a Creator to exist
now how do they come to this conclusion..

there exist an intelligent design..where did it come from

 

[Vitamin_C]

Where does it say atheists believe that there is no God?

Rejecting that something exists is not the same thing as claiming that it doesn't exist.

If I tell you that England will win football world cup, you say I don't believe you. It doesn't mean that you are saying England will not win the world cup.

This is basic logic but never taught in Pakistani schools and we have adult people here struggling with basic reasoning.

If that's the best you got then you've lost the debate already.
Atheism: Noun. Disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Atheism is, in the broadest sense, the absence of belief in the existence of deities. Less broadly, atheism is the rejection of belief that any deities exist. In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Wikipedia

I will not waste anymore of my time.

 

[Vitamin_C]

If someone is making a claim on the origin of the universe then it requires the same amount of evidence as any other claim in physics and cosmology.

Its like asking, what would change your stance on whether a giant bull under the Earth causes earthquakes when it shakes it head. Superstitious beliefs are a way to fill blanks in human knowledge.

As our knowledge grows each of those superstitious explanation gets crossed out and we find out that everything has natural cause.

Its better to not base our conclusions on superstition but to wait until we have enough evidence to make a conclusion.

Just out of curiosity, what "evidence" would you require to change your stance i.e what do you or would you consider as proof ?

 

[Iconoclast]

Where does it say atheists believe that there is no God?

Rejecting that something exists is not the same thing as claiming that it doesn't exist.

If I tell you that England will win football world cup, you say I don't believe you. It doesn't mean that you are saying England will not win the world cup.

This is basic logic but never taught in Pakistani schools and we have adult people here struggling with basic reasoning.

Another bullshit example like superman. If I tell you it's it's daylight and you tell me you don't believe me. That means you believe it's dark.
Stop being a tool. You're as logical as a pornstar is celibate. Man your astigmatic definition of atheism is as absurd.

 

[Prince of Dhump]

I am not playing with words and definitions, I am just giving you the definitions because you do not understand the position of Atheism.

If you think an intelligent designer exists, where is your evidence?

The answer is there is no evidence and therefore you need faith to believe in an intelligent designer.

thanks for educating..
nonetheless the point of discussion here was not about the existence of Creator..i didnt throw the term intelligent design to initiate a debate on Creator

the point i was making is that atheism and morality are interconnected. Atheist bring down the probability of existence of Creator bcz they think they have (or will have) an alternative explanation for this creation we call universe..they think that Creator is not necessary for this intelligent design and it is self explanatory

when u take that route..obviously natural selection come into play and hence the debate on morality

 

[Citizen X]

If someone is making a claim on the origin of the universe then it requires the same amount of evidence as any other claim in physics and cosmology.

Its like asking, what would change your stance on whether a giant bull under the Earth causes earthquakes when it shakes it head. Superstitious beliefs are a way to fill blanks in human knowledge.

As our knowledge grows each of those superstitious explanation gets crossed out and we find out that everything has natural cause.

Its better to not base our conclusions on superstition but to wait until we have enough evidence to make a conclusion.

It wasn't a loaded question or in the mood to preach just wondering what would be evidence enough for you, as each person has his/her own definition.

 

[Prince of Dhump]

If that's the best you got then you've lost the debate already.
Atheism: Noun. Disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.

Atheism is, in the broadest sense, the absence of belief in the existence of deities. Less broadly, atheism is the rejection of belief that any deities exist. In an even narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities. Wikipedia

I will not waste anymore of my time.

he does have a point ?
for example richard dawkins put himself at 7 on a scale of 1 to 9 with 9 being complete disbelief..
nonetheless they do act like a follower of some nazi cult

 

[Vitamin_C]

Your mixing things up.

Atheism is simply rejection of a belief in something. You are also an Atheist for almost all Gods out there except one.

Atheism doesn't talk about alternatives to God. I can see that it is hard for you to grasp the idea of rejection of a belief, but I am failing to put it in words for you to understand.

For example if I came to you and said I got an A on my math exam, you say that I don't believe you. Your disbelief doesn't mean that you are saying I didn't get an A (At this point you do not know what I got since I haven't showed you the report card or evidence). The truth is that we do not know where the Universe came from, whether it was a God or not. Saying I disbelieve in it or I don't know is a valid answer to this question.

Morality is a different topic.

Pakistanis have a hard time grasping the idea that you can separate morality from the idea of God. We are taught since childhood is that we do good things or bad things because its what Quran teaches us. This is far from the truth, there is a basic evolutionary morality even in animals as it ensures their survival as a species.

There are wild tribes in Amazon rainforest know as the Piraha people, they have no concept of religion or god. Even they have their own sense of morality and look after their elderly and sick. There are documentaries on this tribe on youtube.

Point is morality doesn't come from religion or God. It comes from people getting together and discussing rules that are best for everyones well being and progress as society. As well as some natural morality, such that if someone acts in a selfish way, he will be ostracized from society diminishing his chances of breeding and continuing his genes. This was the case in hunter gatherer societies. We have a natural instinct to protect children, take care of our family and tribe.

thanks for educating..
nonetheless the point of discussion here was not about the existence of Creator..i didnt throw the term intelligent design to initiate a debate on Creator

the point i was making is that atheism and morality are interconnected. Atheist bring down the probability of existence of Creator bcz they think they have (or will have) an alternative explanation for this creation we call universe..they think that Creator is not necessary for this intelligent design and it is self explanatory

when u take that route..obviously natural selection come into play and hence the debate on morality

 

[Vitamin_C]

There is a basic definition of Atheism. After that everyone has their own belief. Forexample we have a definition for the disbelief in UFOs. But you cannot group together disbelievers of UFO in a category that would be absurd.

he does have a point ?
for example richard dawkins put himself at 7 on a scale of 1 to 9 with 9 being complete disbelief..
nonetheless they do act like a follower of some nazi cult