Tahir ul Qadri Long March and Political Outcomes

insaf-seeker

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: Qadri vs PTI and the Others!

He is still thinking to jump in. Imran Khan is saying every one in the march is right. Imran Khan has now realized and suddenly started demanding for immediate resignation of the government lol. :lol:. Earlier he was saying that Zardari should at least conduct elections before leaving (bigsmile).

IK has never said that and please don't misquote him, Qadri drama will be over within 2 days and then you will see who has gained and who has lost, just wait and watch!!
 

Sedqal

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Qadri vs PTI and the Others!

IK has never said that and please don't misquote him, Qadri drama will be over within 2 days and then you will see who has gained and who has lost, just wait and watch!!

Dude wake up Qadri is in Islamabad, he has pulled the long march. Do you think he cares for electoral process and constitution? He will move when something concrete is offered to him, like caretaker PMship. Once he is there do you think he would move away quietly after 2 months.

TuQ is in a position to harm PTI significantly, he may take the position that PTI joined the status quo (lotas) and he went against and destroyed status quo. TuQ does not care for democracy or constitution while PTI has to care for all these issues. PTI can not stoop to TUQ level if it wants to become a democratic force in Pk.

Plus PTI can't join TuQ, doing so will mean that PTI joins it as a Junior partner in this stage. PTI also does not know if at the last moment Musharraf will jump in the same bandwagon. Like I said TuQ can't lose now, he is a joker without any moral limitations but PTI can lose a lot.
 
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sngilani

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Qadri vs PTI and the Others!

IK has never said that and please don't misquote him, Qadri drama will be over within 2 days and then you will see who has gained and who has lost, just wait and watch!!

TUQ is not here for gain or loss. TUQ march is benefiting Imran Khan and PTI. But he is still able to summon up his courage to join in. It is failure of leadership that is why TUQ jumped in. :13:
 

Sedqal

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Qadri vs PTI and the Others!

TUQ is not here for gain or loss. TUQ march is benefiting Imran Khan and PTI. But he is still able to summon up his courage to join in. It is failure of leadership that is why TUQ jumped in. :13:

And TuQ spent millions, wrote his will, dragged 25,000 to 30,000 people into Islamabad just so he can offer Govt to PTI on a plate :lol:
 

sngilani

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Qadri vs PTI and the Others!

And TuQ spent millions, wrote his will, dragged 25,000 to 30,000 people into Islamabad just so he can offer Govt to PTI on a plate :lol:

But no one else could have gather this much courage. Actually there is a clear failure of leadership in Pakistan that is why TUQ jumped in.
 

insaf-seeker

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: Qadri vs PTI and the Others!

Dude wake up Qadri is in Islamabad, he has pulled the long march. Do you think he cares for electoral process and constitution? He will move when something concrete is offered to him, like caretaker PMship. Once he is there do you think he would move away quietly after 2 months.

TuQ is in a position to harm PTI significantly, he may take the position that PTI joined the status quo (lotas) and he went against and destroyed status quo. TuQ does not care for democracy or constitution while PTI has to care for all these issues. PTI can not stoop to TUQ level if it wants to become a democratic force in Pk.

Plus PTI can't join TuQ, doing so will mean that PTI joins it as a Junior partner in this stage. PTI also does not know if at the last moment Musharraf will jump in the same bandwagon. Like I said TuQ can't lose now, he is a joker without any moral limitations but PTI can lose a lot.


Agreed, but Qadri has failed to pull massive crowd the number does matter, lets see what Zardari will do with this march tonight or tomorrow then the picture will be more clearer.
 

Time Being

MPA (400+ posts)
Re: TuQ's Long March and Political Outcomes

phalay likhna sekh le pher bataon ga

Is that how you describe your own leader when someone asks you KESA LEADER after you post a silly picture of him having food..? (clap) Keep trying and maybe, who knows, you would start making sense one day. Till then .. (thumbsdown)
 

Omrkhan

Minister (2k+ posts)
IK should do long march/jalsa in Lhr not in Islamabad. If he do that In Islo now it will always be called The Qadri show.
 

Sedqal

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
IK should do long march/jalsa in Lhr not in Islamabad. If he do that In Islo now it will always be called The Qadri show.

TuQ is saying that he has evidence in Asghr Khan case (the one against NS). Sethi says that IK will join once NS is targeted by TuQ. You are right though, IK might take a rally to Raiwind. This is what MQM threatened before and if PTI follows it would mean TUQ, MQM & PTI were all in it with establishment.
 

AdamA

Senator (1k+ posts)
Qadri has taken up the role of a warner and a messenger. His purpose and objectives have been clear from the very beginning. Qadri got what he wanted in Karachi and MQM also got what they wanted from Zardari (more seats) when they were threatning to join Qadri's caravan.

We all know the elections will be rigged, PPP/PMLN/MQM/JUI-F/ANP/PMLQ block will be back in power. In this present electorial setup, will IK accept the result? If it is unconstitutional to join Qadri now then why would the "Tsunami" be legal after the elections?

Access to NADRA is already in the hands of Zardari and the voters list / seat adjustments have already been drawn amongst the present ruling parties. What good is PTI is opposition when you will be out voted in every issue! Unfortunately, IK's advisors are made from the same old filth, opportunist and disloyal. Once a horse-trader always a horse-trader.

Qadri is quite correct to point out that in this present setup, an honest person (like IK) has no chance.

The door to Islamabad is through Washington. The yanks will make IK PM if he obviously follows their script and reconciles with Musharraf (he replaces Zardari as President). This is the only 'fast-track' way!!!
 

United4Pak

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: Army is behind all this

* Shaheen Sehbai's prediction of Dama Dam Mast Qalandar.
* Indications that Americans to pull out sooner from Afghanistan.
* Skirmishes start on LoC.
* Kayani says that Army ready for "full spectrum of threat".
* Qadri starts a march and take 20 odd thousands people to Islamabad without any check.
* MQM, PTI, Sheikh Rasheed and PML-Q supports the long march but then pull back their support apart from Sheikh Rasheed. Sheikh Rasheed laments that MQM didn't support long march, Imran Khan wants Zardari's resignation. We have a deputy PM from PML-Q so all we need is the removal of PM.
* SC orders arrest orders for PM
* CJ says "Elections will be held on time" when there are only 2 months left and Zardari was saying the same thing but who is CJ to announce this.

Big question why wrap up this setup when only less than 60 days of government is left.

Answer: Democracy doesn't work and these politicians cannot do transfer of power peacefully so all hail to "nahmdo hu wa nussali ala rasool-e-hil karim" Mard e Momin, Mard e Haq, Ziaul Haq

NB. I have never seen so many positive messages on Dunya TV from people from Karachi to Peshawer, Lahore to Sukkur, Quetta in support for Tahir ul Qadri while in reality I have hardly seen a single supporter.

Interesting to hear Azam Sawati's comments in this program supporting the long march. http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...bani-PM-Arrest-Orders-Elections-Are-Possible&
 
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Sedqal

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Army is behind all this

* Indications that Americans to pull out sooner from Afghanistan.
* Skirmishes start on LoC.
* Kayani says that Army ready for "full spectrum of threat".
* Qadri starts a march and take 20 odd thousands people to Islamabad without any check.
* MQM, PTI, Sheikh Rasheed and PML-Q supports the long march but then pull back their support apart from Sheikh Rasheed. Sheikh Rasheed laments that MQM didn't support long march, Imran Khan wants Zardari's resignation. We have a deputy PM from PML-Q so all we need is the removal of PM.
* SC orders arrest orders for PM
* CJ says "Elections will be held on time" when there are only 2 months left and Zardari was saying the same thing but who is CJ to announce this.

Big question why wrap up this setup when only less than 60 days of government is left.

Answer: Democracy doesn't work and these politicians cannot do transfer of power peacefully so all hail to "nahmdo hu wa nussali ala rasool-e-hil karim" Mard e Momin, Mard e Haq, Ziaul Haq

NB. I have never seen so many positive messages on Dunya TV from people from Karachi to Peshawer, Lahore to Sukkur, Quetta in support for Tahir ul Qadri while in reality I have hardly seen a single supporter.

Look at it from establishment's PoV. An elected government transferring power to another elected government shows that democracy works, which is not to be tolerated. Funny that both PTI and TuQ supported a referendum and then took part in an election under a dictator which was times worse then today.

TuQ in an interview said that all politicians should be audited/ checked for a month before they are allowed to participate in elections. Agencies will start the audit and establishment will again be in the driving seat. A new era of excellence in building private properties will dawn in Pakistan, the world will look in awe while DHA breaks new records in excellence.
 
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gotti

Guest
Gotti kithay gaya? (omg)

I have gone through it keenly and feel enriched,too. Thanks for hard work.

1. PPP and PML-N response to TUQ march can not be labelled as support necessarily. The ruling class was not sure whether to harness the movement by repression or let it go freely. They attempted both ways with uncertanity at different stages. Fear of a bang resulting from confrontation and possible spill over country wide was one factor.

2. WUM factor does not count decisively in such mega state of matters. Still broadminded scholars like TUQ offer some hope at least for Shia community, which is trying to find its right place in terror ridden new Pakistan. TUQ's followers can be identified as religiously motivated people but the whole show was about implementation of values and laws acknowledged by democracy as well as Islam.

3. TTP sparing TUQ's march, being a potential target can be understood if initially we decide to believe that TTP is a human body, has certain goals and has some reasons to fight against Pakistan. No matter we agree with them or not, still TTP is a reality on the ground. TUQ does not condone terrorism but has a broad socio democratic agenda, TTP has a religiously overloaded vision for Pakistan and they have zero tolerance for liberals but still they are talking of a human society. TTP spared TUQ on human grounds, wisely avoiding another Malala type outcry. If one likes to look for some "reasons" behind that, it is up to him.

4. Pakistani channels can be identified with their interest when certain opinion making drive with repeated instances is noted but just scattered comments in such a fluid situation are not enough to decide something fishy. Admiringly, I see your capability of a fiction writer who knows the plot beforehand and picks threads in time.I remembered by instinct "The Day of Jackal" and "If Tomorrow Comes" while reading your article.

5. GoP was in court as a routine matter and SC also did what it did, in quite professional way but only the timing of the verdict became the last straw of the moment for PPP and it gave chance to theorists to weave more, with whatever material they had on hand.

6. A lot many people use the word "establishment" in their imaginary world. Some play it as a monster which does not allow civilian rulers to have a say in foreign policy, anti-terror strategy or nuclear issues. Some paint it a Tiger turned Cat in face a defiant democratic national face, strong pro-democracy stand by West, outspoken Pakistani media and too busy on local front. In my view establishment is hand in hand with ruling class and both have a joint task defined by US. Nobody can imagine a Pakistan with its security system collapsing, Railway, the bloodline in case of Indian aggression coming to halt and Air Force loosing 11 Jets (Mirage, mostly) in 18 months only because PAF lacks proper maintenance for no funds available. Can establishment go that far with patience where Pakistan's financial sovereignty and operational integrity shrinking fast at the hands of civilian looters ? Will establishment put Pakistan itself at stake for sake of the romance for baby democracy in cradle for decades ? No, establishment will use necessary leverage to keep things on track. But it does not as we see. That means US plan to harness the fundamentalist state by pushing it towards default is in place and our so called stake holders are under a big thumb.

7. Qadri is not a player but catalyst of another sort. If US is happy with 5 years of our subservience, Qadri is out to disturb that. So, the current ruling set up is the best and time tested choice for US.

8. In fluid situation, I can not predict the ultimate winners of this game, unless it settles down with more realities in place.

9. Many politicians have pointed out the flaws, labeling him a liar, actor etc. One basic problem with putting him under microscope is that he is basically a preacher, nor a politician and insensitive to word count or pseudo accountability. He spoke of 4 million, brought 50 to 80,000 that became a stigma. But the tongues out are political and wickedly hiding the fact that GoP has played a role in blocking protesters at times in last 48 hours. Will anybody tell me when it was in Pakistan's history when a boisterous politician successfully proved what he spoke of. In a country where scale of grandeur and power is to seek animal embodiment, Sher-e-Punjab or casting shadows beyond our borders, like Fakhar-e-Asia, Qadri's intention to gather 4 million but bagging 70-80 thousand only is failure of character or strategy ?

Qadri changes stance ? interesting really. He changes order of popular demands but remains committed to the basic line which is to keep constitutional, electoral, moral and national norms up and above. Since he is basically a preacher, he plays heart beat of masses in his words, it is job of politicians and people of law to transform it into legal order.

sedqal ! hopefully you have witnessed some of those "babus" in mother arms, smiling at you.

10. Tensions on LOC have something to do with scenario inside Islamabad ? If I believe what Pakistan has said and what you are trying to paint, head of Indian soldier must be in Qadri's truck. Do you mind to make a physical confirmation ?

11. I admire your effort to peep into prism of eternity to recover glimpse of the future. I do not believe in guess work which is the very base of your master piece. Our future can be judged from our present and our intentions. I believe Pakistan's next 10 years will not be different to our current decade, except that Pakistan will have been fully sedated with heavy doses of sectarianism, manipulation, lawlessness and poverty. Pakistan, as a burning kiln helps promote Western designs for this region easier. But the decisive historic turn also lies in the same decade or so. When state will be moving like a drunk hippy under duress, this nuclear state will become a threat for peace and security particularly for Asia and the world in general. One page resolution in UN will make it mandatory to keep our nuclear arsenal under international protection. That is how I see the future, pertaining to current path of our ruling class, sincerity of establishment and idiocy of us, the common Pakistanis.

Doesn't make any sense, Qadri hasn't achieved anything and Khan hasn't lost anything then why so much hype about this useless long march?

Of all the options mentioned only option 3 seems more plausible and makes any sense.

Sedqal The situation is very confusing. But my theory is that the US, Britain, Army establishment and Zardari, all of them are behind this drama. I think that elections will be held in time and we will have another 5 year PPP government. I don't think that US and our Army establishment can find such a docile representative government other than Zardari and will feel much easy to deal with them in 2013 & 14. These years are very important for western and local military establishments and they want no popular disturbance from political parties of conservative or right wing vote bank. For Zardari to sacrifice Raja Parvez for another 5 years is not a big deal.

I think we will see till tomorrow that government will start discussions with Qadri and diffuse this dharna. Qadri will also contest in elections and will further damage Nawaz and Imran's vote bank. If PPP lose 10 to 15 national assembly seats they will still in the position to form next government. Nawaz will also lose 10 to 15 seats and Imran will gain these 20 to 30 seats and will remain in the opposition

I can be completely wrong in my assessment. In any case, next two days will clear all confusion.

I agree with most of the things Akbar S babar (PTI) has to say. U will find it interesting as well.The Qadri long march and dharna has produced the standoff that was scripted to trigger change. While Qadri is holding the gun to the temple of the present system, the shots are being fired from elsewhere. The first shot hit the bulls-eye. There is a possibility of more deadly shots in the next few days. I feel as long as the necessary arrangement leading to a caretaker set are not worked out between key stakeholders, Qadri would continue to hold the gun to the temple. That means the Qadri dharna may continue for a few more days depending on how quickly President Zardari capitulates into agreeing to the caretaker arrangement and negotiates a safe exit for himself. The more Zardari stonewalls the changes, the more threatening the dharna posture and messier the situation with heads rolling one by one.

Whenever a political drama script is written, all the actors do not even know of the larger script. Once certain actors have played their role, other actors take center stage depending on how the script is supposed to unfold. My only serious concern is the ominous statement emanating from New Delhi regarding the deteriorating situation along the LOC and expulsion of our hockey players. If the larger script includes an external dimension besides the internal changes, I sense danger.

Please don’t ask dwelling on the PTI’s 7 point charter of demands as it would be tantamount to discussing missed political opportunities which may be bitter for some to swallow. So let us remain focused on the real action.

Correct but a vast majority of Pakistani simpletons want them to be ruled like rats.

We have status quo because we want status quo.

Sedqal, I don't know whether you got a chance to read this piece in dawn newspaper;


QADRI is on his way to Islamabad and the conspiracy theorists are in overdrive.

With facts scarcer than ever, there’s even a theory that he may not arrive in Islamabad tomorrow. The fundamental uncertainty of politics here means anything is possible.

Just how possible? Let’s recap, in no particular order of believability or widespread-ness, the conspiracy theories about who put Qadri up to this long march business.

Theory No 1: Zardari. The president wants to be re-elected as president. The electoral college — the provincial assemblies and parliament — is configured such at present that if the assemblies’ lives were somehow to be extended till the expiration of Zardari’s term in September, he’d be guaranteed re-election.

A general election could substantially change the presidential-election math, though. But how to postpone the general election, when the PML-N is waiting in the wings and the PTI is determined to try its luck?
The Qadri wildcard. Long-marching, slogan-chanting, game-changing Qadri appears out of nowhere and threatens political chaos — giving Zardari that elusive excuse to extend the life of parliament by means of some as-yet-unclear constitutional mechanism.

Theory No 2: MQM. The party of urban Sindh is obsessed with protecting its base. But nestled as its base is in greater — interior — Sindh, the MQM has to use every trick in the book and then some to get its way.
Tantrums, blackmail, threats, the MQM will do whatever it takes to ensure Karachi, and Hyderabad, remains under its control.

Strip away the theatrics from Altaf’s Thursday speech and you’re left with the mention of local government elections and the Sindh governorship. Assume, and this is quite a safe assumption, there are more demands that will never be heard of in public.
Demands that the MQM wants met, but how to get its senior coalition partner in Sindh and the centre, the PPP, to accede to those demands?

Enter Qadri. With street power at his command and a message that is in lock-step with the army-led establishment’s, Qadri’s arrival was meant to create a threatening uncertainty — an uncertainty about the establishment’s real intentions; an uncertainty that was supercharged when the MQM climbed on the Qadri bandwagon.

Give us what we want, the MQM appeared to be saying to the PPP, or we’ll help your enemies take you down. A credible threat because the MQM would not exactly struggle to find a place, or protect its interests, in the new dispensation.
Theory No 3: Americans/Brits. Disillusioned by the incompetence and drift of the last five years, worried that the next election will produce another hung parliament and weak government, desperate to keep Pakistan stable as the Afghan adventure winds down — do they need more of an incentive to try and shape politics here again?

Qadri’s international network, his ‘moderate’, Barelvi leanings, his diehard followers inside Pakistan, all of that makes him just the guy to jolt the political system, create the space for the democratic project to be paused and hand over the reins to a team of competents to guide the country out of the mess it is in.

All of it backstopped by the army, just when its cooperation in Afghanistan over the next couple of years is needed most. Better for the Americans to satisfy the man who can deliver here, Gen K, than to back the civilians who control little.

Theory No 4: Kayani. The power-grab theory by a power-hungry Gen K is straightforward enough. But there’s also a more exotic potential motive attributed to the general with a taste for the convoluted.
The Americans know Gen K will ultimately stand in their way, so they’d liked to see the back of him come November. A craven and pliant civilian government would help the Americans insert an ambitious but malleable successor in Gen K’s place.
That successor would then help the Americans achieve their dream of institutionally reshaping the army to better suit American interests in Pakistan and the region.

Ergo, to prevent the Americans from destroying the army from within, Gen K has activated Qadri. Once the democratic process is on hold, Gen K can continue beyond 2013 and protect the institutional integrity and independence of the army.
These wacky and weird theories have nothing in common, as befits most sets of conspiracy theories.

They do, though, hint at an underlying reality, a reality that is vexing and can appear unwelcome because it is chaotic. But within that reality may lie the seeds of systemic resilience and durability.

How is it possible for the same event — Qadri’s long march to get the elections postponed — to produce such wildly differing theories to cui bono, who benefits?

If the Zardari-wants-to-get-re-elected-by-the-present-assemblies theory is right, then that means he has enough power to exert his will over all the other players in the game.

If the Kayani-wants-to-prolong-his-reign-for-whatever-reason theory is correct, then that means he has enough power to exert his will over all the other players in the game.

Both can’t simultaneously be correct, for Kayani and Zardari are both central players in the power game on the national stage.

There’s a simpler explanation — and it also explains the existence of the contradictory conspiracy theories: no player has the ability to impose their will on all the other players. Nobody can get all that they want in the battle for control.

Not Kayani. Not Zardari. Not Qadri. Not Sharif. Not CJ Iftikhar. Not the Americans. No one.

It’s not elegant or easy to grasp, like a stalemate in a game of chess — which explains the frustration of everyone, including a bemused public.

But this messy, noisy, ugly-looking draw that events and moves by the various players have helped engineer has one distinct advantage: it favours continuity.

Shake it, rattle it, batter it, and yet it survives — allowing the country to inch closer to one thing it’s never had: a civilian-led transition.

The old order may resent it, the public today may not appreciate it, but give the unwanted its due: let’s hail the perfect mess.

CJ action has been grossly misrepresented by media. Half a dozen lawyer on twitter say its routine and will not result in Mr PM loosing his job. Its just non binding intructions for NAB to proceed with challan. Fasih Bukhari still call the shots.

PTI statement is anti TUQ essentially. Only thing new is they want Election dates announced now and progress on Caretaker PM end. The new thing they have asked is getting rid of Zardari. JI is also calling for an election date to be announced, but nothing on the Zardari front.

TUQ is the real wild card. He has caught many by surprise. Not sure what he is upto.
Still things are moving fast and PPP and PML N are not.
If the Sitin goes on the danger of intervention will go up.
Better to just announce a date of election and start process of care taker set-up.

BAqEO1YCYAA4Uzs.jpg:large

My dear countrymen (and women, if there are any quoted - I just quoted those who had been originally tagged - also, some others who put quite a bit of effort in it, as well):

Here's an in-depth analysis and a complete explanation of what I think is happening domestically (TuQ march), in the neighborhood (Kashmir), internationally and geopolitically (India-Russia alliance vs. potential Pakistan-American alliance).

These views are my own and the owners of any site might not be in agreement with them or endorse them (although they should, if they knew what's good for them).

Here's the link to a gem of a piece by yours truly:

http://dlvr.it/2mskd3

You are welcome to share your thoughts on this, here or there, up to you.
 
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mrk123

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: TuQ's Long March and Political Outcomes

PTI's slogan of change has been hijacked by TuQ. If PTI joins today it will be the junior party in the setup if it does not TuQ will attract PTI's people who want change. What you said only makes sense IF TuQ is sincere which is hardly the case. That man has changed his stance a dozen times already. TuQ will end his rally only when he is offered something big (like caretaker PM) he won't accept wazarat e mazhabi amoor now. If TuQ becomes caretaker PM forget about elections for a year or two.

Secondly TuQ is a political failure, democracy and constitution be damned as far as he is concerned. PTI wants to be the third force and can't stoop to the level TuQ can.

I do get most of the things that you mentioned but what I don't get is the point that you and others are trying to make and it is that IF PTI joins the protest then they will be the junior partner. Junior partner in what??? TuQ has not clearly indicated that he or his party will be contesting the elections then how could anyone be their junior partners. What is the change that TuQ is about to bring? The change of government or military rule or caretaker setup on lines of the bangladesh model for an extended period of time? What is it that we can call change. In my opinion all the outcomes as a result of TuQ protest, except for the electoral reforms, will spell disaster for the country.

You rightly point out that TuQ is a political failure. He MAY BE fighting his cause with all sincerity(I very much doubt that) but I just hope that he doesn't succeed in any of his designs except for electoral reforms otherwise it will set a very bad precedent, specially in a place like Pakistan. Then we will see a train of crowds of 20-30k trying to force change by converging on Islamabad and they will not stop short of a change of government.

I don't know why media is not calling TuQ out on his about-turns and his blatant lies about the number of people who are there. I commend that he did get a significant number of people in this cold weather including women and children but 4 million? Give me a break! Not sure which crowd counting methods he is using.

As for PTI, I think that they are doing the smart thing by sitting on the sidelines. I think that things will settle down and the media will stop hyperventilating in a day or so and people will move on with their business. PM Ashraf may have to go home but PPP will either bring in a new PM or announce the date for new elections. Most of the times you come to rue the decisions that you make in haste. This is one of those times and I think that PTI should stick to their policy and not get swayed by the rhetoric and the artificially created hysteria.
 
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gotti

Guest
Re: TuQ's Long March and Political Outcomes

I do get most of the things that you mentioned but what I don't get is the point that you and others are trying to make and it is that IF PTI joins the protest then they will be the junior partner. Junior partner in what??? TuQ has not clearly indicated that he or his party will be contesting the elections then how could anyone be their junior partners. What is the change that TuQ is about to bring? The change of government or military rule or caretaker setup on lines of the bangladesh model for an extended period of time? What is it that we can call change. In my opinion all the outcomes as a result of TuQ protest, except for the electoral reforms, will spell disaster for the country.

You rightly point out that TuQ is a political failure. He MAY BE fighting his cause with all sincerity(I very much doubt that) but I just hope that he doesn't succeed in any of his designs except for electoral reforms otherwise it will set a very bad precedent, specially in a place like Pakistan. Then we will see a train of crowds of 20-30k trying to force change by converging on Islamabad and they will not stop short of a change of government.

I don't know why media is not calling TuQ out on his about-turns and his blatant lies about the number of people who are there. I commend that he did get a significant number of people in this cold weather including women and children but 4 million? Give me a break! Not sure which crowd counting methods he is using.

As for PTI, I think that they are doing the smart thing by sitting on the sidelines. I think that things will settle down and the media will stop hyperventilating in a day or so and people will move on with their business. PM Ashraf may have to go home but PPP will either bring in a new PM or announce the date for new elections. Most of the times you come to rue the decisions that you make in haste. This is one of those times and I think that PTI should stick to their policy and not get swayed by the rhetoric and the artificially created hysteria.

(clap)

Working against the revolution, much? [hilar]

PTI will and has already made clear, indirectly, that they will be joining the Qadrivolution!

Resignation of Zardari is being demanded, under what policy, if not supporting the Guevera of our era?

The slogans of revolution, chant them with me, now:

Hasta la Victoria Siempre!

Long live Qadrivera!

#VivaLaQadrivelucion

:lol:
 
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sigma

Banned
Tahir Ul Qadri is an excuse to impose Martial Law

A sold out Moulvi in the hands of Army.....!




Martial Law will not dare to come, else the consequences will be in the D-Chowk.
 
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Hathamreborn

MPA (400+ posts)
Re: Tahir Ul Qadri is an excuse to impose Martial Law

Pak fauj apart from defending the nation does everything else
Hunderds of attacks on pakistanis, never killed or captured big leader of TTP, america drone invasion, 2 may attack, salala attack, GHQ, PNS mehran and the list goes on,,, and these days india is killing our soldiers and these douches are only calling for flag staff meetings