Tahir ul Qadri Long March and Political Outcomes

abcdef

Councller (250+ posts)
Re: Army is behind all this

اسلام آباد: پاکستان مسلم لیگ (ن) کے رہنما خواجہ سعد رفیق نے ملک کی موجودہ صورتحال پر پارلیمنٹ کا مشترکہ اجلاس بلانے کا مطالبہ کرتے ہوئے کہا ہے
کہ سپریم کورٹ کی جانب سے وزیراعظم کی گرفتاری کا فیصلہ اس وقت ہونا سمجھ سے بالاتر ہے، جمہوریت کی بساط لپیٹنے کی سازش ہو رہی ہے۔
سپریم کورٹ کی جانب سے رینٹل پاور کیس میں وزیراعظم راجہ پرویز اشرف کی گرفتاری کا حکم جاری ہونے پر ردعمل کا اظہار کرتے ہوئے خواجہ سعد رفیق نے کہا کہ موجودہ سیاسی صورتحال اور پیدا ہونے والے بحران کے سیاسی حل کیلئے فوری طور پر پارلیمنٹ کا مشترکہ اجلاس بلایا جائے اگر پارلیمنٹ کے علاوہ کہیں اور سے مسئلہ حل کرنے کی کوشش کی گئی تو یہ ملک اور قوم کیلئے اچھا نہیں ہوگا۔ انہوں نے کہا کہ صدر کو فوری طور پر قومی اسمبلی اور سینٹ کا اجلاس بلا لینا چاہیے اور اگر ممکن ہو تو پارلیمنٹ کا مشترکہ اجلاس بھی طلب کرنا چاہیے۔ انہوں نے کہا کہ وزیراعظم کی گرفتاری سے ملک میں ایک نیا بحران پیدا ہو رہا ہے جبکہ طاہر القادری کا لانگ مارچ پہلے ہی اسلام آباد میں موجود ہے۔ انہوں نے کہا کہ سپریم کورٹ کے فیصلے کا وقت سمجھ سے بالاتر ہے اور اچانک پیدا ہونے والی صورتحال پریشان کن ہے۔ انہوں نے کہا کہ انتخابات قبل ازوقت ہونے میں کوئی مضائقہ نہیں ہے صدر کو نگران حکومت کے قیام کا اعلان اور الیکشن کی تاریخ کا اعلان جلد کر دینا چاہیے ۔ موجودہ صورتحال یہ اشارہ کرتی ہے کہ ملک میں جمہوریت کی بساط لپیٹنے کی سازش ہو رہی ہے۔










khawja saad rafiq is right.....
 

Khallas

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Army is behind all this

Jab jamhoriyat nakam honay lag jaye to sara **** army per daal do...

Army na 5 saal say interference ki aur na hi akhir k 2 mahinay main kari gi...

yeh ink apnay hi kaale kartoot hain jin per parda daalnay k liya Pak army ko badnaam karne ki phir say sazish ho rahi hay...

aur ager is dafa army ayey to ek baat confirm hay yeh sab k sab zameen say 6 ft nechay hon gaye...
 

Jazz_01

MPA (400+ posts)
Re: Army is behind all this

WE Do Not Accept Army coup, any technocrate govt or any judicial coup.

And United we Stand

No to Army Backed Govt.
 
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FaisalKh

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Army is behind all this

I dont think army is that stupid they r already busy on LOC with india nd afghanistan/raw
 

Altaf Lutfi

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: TuQ's Long March and Political Outcomes

Altaf its just supposed to be a pool of different facts and opinions. You can add your thoughts to this.

I have gone through it keenly and feel enriched,too. Thanks for hard work.

1. PPP and PML-N response to TUQ march can not be labelled as support necessarily. The ruling class was not sure whether to harness the movement by repression or let it go freely. They attempted both ways with uncertanity at different stages. Fear of a bang resulting from confrontation and possible spill over country wide was one factor.

2. WUM factor does not count decisively in such mega state of matters. Still broadminded scholars like TUQ offer some hope at least for Shia community, which is trying to find its right place in terror ridden new Pakistan. TUQ's followers can be identified as religiously motivated people but the whole show was about implementation of values and laws acknowledged by democracy as well as Islam.

3. TTP sparing TUQ's march, being a potential target can be understood if initially we decide to believe that TTP is a human body, has certain goals and has some reasons to fight against Pakistan. No matter we agree with them or not, still TTP is a reality on the ground. TUQ does not condone terrorism but has a broad socio democratic agenda, TTP has a religiously overloaded vision for Pakistan and they have zero tolerance for liberals but still they are talking of a human society. TTP spared TUQ on human grounds, wisely avoiding another Malala type outcry. If one likes to look for some "reasons" behind that, it is up to him.

4. Pakistani channels can be identified with their interest when certain opinion making drive with repeated instances is noted but just scattered comments in such a fluid situation are not enough to decide something fishy. Admiringly, I see your capability of a fiction writer who knows the plot beforehand and picks threads in time.I remembered by instinct "The Day of Jackal" and "If Tomorrow Comes" while reading your article.

5. GoP was in court as a routine matter and SC also did what it did, in quite professional way but only the timing of the verdict became the last straw of the moment for PPP and it gave chance to theorists to weave more, with whatever material they had on hand.

6. A lot many people use the word "establishment" in their imaginary world. Some play it as a monster which does not allow civilian rulers to have a say in foreign policy, anti-terror strategy or nuclear issues. Some paint it a Tiger turned Cat in face a defiant democratic national face, strong pro-democracy stand by West, outspoken Pakistani media and too busy on local front. In my view establishment is hand in hand with ruling class and both have a joint task defined by US. Nobody can imagine a Pakistan with its security system collapsing, Railway, the bloodline in case of Indian aggression coming to halt and Air Force loosing 11 Jets (Mirage, mostly) in 18 months only because PAF lacks proper maintenance for no funds available. Can establishment go that far with patience where Pakistan's financial sovereignty and operational integrity shrinking fast at the hands of civilian looters ? Will establishment put Pakistan itself at stake for sake of the romance for baby democracy in cradle for decades ? No, establishment will use necessary leverage to keep things on track. But it does not as we see. That means US plan to harness the fundamentalist state by pushing it towards default is in place and our so called stake holders are under a big thumb.

7. Qadri is not a player but catalyst of another sort. If US is happy with 5 years of our subservience, Qadri is out to disturb that. So, the current ruling set up is the best and time tested choice for US.

8. In fluid situation, I can not predict the ultimate winners of this game, unless it settles down with more realities in place.

9. Many politicians have pointed out the flaws, labeling him a liar, actor etc. One basic problem with putting him under microscope is that he is basically a preacher, nor a politician and insensitive to word count or pseudo accountability. He spoke of 4 million, brought 50 to 80,000 that became a stigma. But the tongues out are political and wickedly hiding the fact that GoP has played a role in blocking protesters at times in last 48 hours. Will anybody tell me when it was in Pakistan's history when a boisterous politician successfully proved what he spoke of. In a country where scale of grandeur and power is to seek animal embodiment, Sher-e-Punjab or casting shadows beyond our borders, like Fakhar-e-Asia, Qadri's intention to gather 4 million but bagging 70-80 thousand only is failure of character or strategy ?

Qadri changes stance ? interesting really. He changes order of popular demands but remains committed to the basic line which is to keep constitutional, electoral, moral and national norms up and above. Since he is basically a preacher, he plays heart beat of masses in his words, it is job of politicians and people of law to transform it into legal order.

sedqal ! hopefully you have witnessed some of those "babus" in mother arms, smiling at you.

10. Tensions on LOC have something to do with scenario inside Islamabad ? If I believe what Pakistan has said and what you are trying to paint, head of Indian soldier must be in Qadri's truck. Do you mind to make a physical confirmation ?

11. I admire your effort to peep into prism of eternity to recover glimpse of the future. I do not believe in guess work which is the very base of your master piece. Our future can be judged from our present and our intentions. I believe Pakistan's next 10 years will not be different to our current decade, except that Pakistan will have been fully sedated with heavy doses of sectarianism, manipulation, lawlessness and poverty. Pakistan, as a burning kiln helps promote Western designs for this region easier. But the decisive historic turn also lies in the same decade or so. When state will be moving like a drunk hippy under duress, this nuclear state will become a threat for peace and security particularly for Asia and the world in general. One page resolution in UN will make it mandatory to keep our nuclear arsenal under international protection. That is how I see the future, pertaining to current path of our ruling class, sincerity of establishment and idiocy of us, the common Pakistanis.
 

scyrus

Citizen
Qadri vs PTI and the Others!

Aarz kia hai:
Woh Imran Khan kay Naseeb Ki Barishain, Qadri kay Chaat Par Baras Gayen,
Khan-e-bekhabar Meri Baat Sun, Tsunami Bhool Jaa, Tsunami Bhool Jaa!!!


But one thing is clear that in 2002, Fake Moolviz were given power and Allah showed us their true colors, then we were shown the Generals (not the army) in 2007. In 2008-2012, Altaaf, Zardari and shareefs were stripped naked in front of everyone. This cleanup was needed and soon nothing will be in the gray area like before; Everything will just be black or white, ppl of Rehman or ppl of Shaitaan! Hence I don't care if it is qadri or padri, khan or toofaan, Nawaz or payaaz, gaylani or just gay, Sardar or murdaar, rana or pakhana, hooti or khooti, zardari or ghadaari, raisani or bayimani, raja or baja, altaaf or iblees :)
 

Jazz_01

MPA (400+ posts)
Re: Qadri vs PTI and the Others!

I agree - But thats not good too...!!!

when Imran Khan became democratic (out of auqat they brought in Padri)

Woh Imran Khan kay Naseeb Ki Barishain, Qadri kay Chaat Par Baras Gayen,
Khan-e-bekhabar Meri Baat Sun, Tsunami Bhool Jaa, Tsunami Bhool Jaa!!!
 

insaf-seeker

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: Qadri vs PTI and the Others!

Doesn't make any sense, Qadri hasn't achieved anything and Khan hasn't lost anything then why so much hype about this useless long march?
 
The prerequisite for change of Socio-political system in Pakistan is Decentralization of power in the hands of people at grass root level on the basis of Division within provinces .

AOA, I highlyappreciate the struggle of MQI in Islamabad and gather a big crowd of Oppressedpeople of Pakistan dreaming for the change of socio-political system. But thebasic demand of electoral reform is to protect the current system of sole powerin the hands of one person or few of them, but will not bring the system changefor poor, oppressed, deprived people of Pakistan. Since last 64 years politiciansare promising for better future for the people surrounded by deprivation and injustice,discrimination. In reality they defuse the frustration of oppressed people inthe name of better change to bring. But the Discrimination, injustice andhatred can only be answered when the structure of power eradicated. All those political parties asking for change in electoralsystem, in reality they are strengthening the current system for the sake ofruling elites.
The change of system can be made possible if we limit thepower of ruling elites in the center and provinces and assure decentralizationof the power to empower the people at grass root on the basis of divisionwithin the provinces and allowed them to join the decision making process atall level to decide their own destiny and the destiny of the Nation. (Read theFAQ on www.idp.org.pk to understand theprogram for change)
Until, we change the socio-political system, we cannotempower the people at grass root level and therefore cannot achieve the targetgoal of self-sufficiency in agriculture and industries together with sturdydefense and export-oriented foreign policy with basic guarantee and equalopportunity for every one for the creation of welfare state.

 

VoteME

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: Qadri vs PTI and the Others!

Doesn't make any sense, Qadri hasn't achieved anything and Khan hasn't lost anything then why so much hype about this useless long march?
But the snake will show his true form soon and snake worshipers will follow blindly. That's what I am afraid of and that will damage Pakistan:(
 

amber123

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Qadri vs PTI and the Others!

Woh bud-Naseebi Ki Barishain, Qadri kay Chaat Par Baras Gayen,... tu khaiyal hay kisey our ka tujhey palta koi our hai.
 

scyrus

Citizen
Re: Qadri vs PTI and the Others!

Brother, I am not against Khan Sahab, all I am saying is that he was the only shining star and now we have Mr. Qadri too. Turnout for him is great and that affects both sheeple and the people... and the way they think!
 

insaf-seeker

Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: Qadri vs PTI and the Others!

But the snake will show his true form soon and snake worshipers will follow blindly. That's what I am afraid of and that will damage Pakistan:(

NOthing is going to happen, Qadri has no concrete agenda if he leaves the country safely that would be his success, on other hand PTI is gonna stay with people of Pakistan and in Pakistan. The ultimate winner will be PTI anyways!
 

amber123

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
We can't believe the persone we are not sure WHAT HE IS UP TO (omg):angry_smile:(omg):angry_smile:.
 

babakamal

MPA (400+ posts)
As a working man I do not care for political outcome but do appreciate Dr. Qadri efforts for the whole country's 180 million population and hope to see a best outcome for all of us Pakistanis.
 

sngilani

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Qadri vs PTI and the Others!

Doesn't make any sense, Qadri hasn't achieved anything and Khan hasn't lost anything then why so much hype about this useless long march?

He is still thinking to jump in. Imran Khan is saying every one in the march is right. Imran Khan has now realized and suddenly started demanding for immediate resignation of the government lol. :lol:. Earlier he was saying that Zardari should at least conduct elections before leaving (bigsmile).
 

sngilani

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Qadri vs PTI and the Others!

NOthing is going to happen, Qadri has no concrete agenda if he leaves the country safely that would be his success, on other hand PTI is gonna stay with people of Pakistan and in Pakistan. The ultimate winner will be PTI anyways!

PTI is still sitting on the fence lol. For last 6 months he was trying to save this corrupt government.
Now Imran Khan is saying every one in the march is right. Imran Khan has suddenly realized wind direction blowing against him and started demanding for immediate resignation of the government lol. :lol: Earlier he was saying that Zardari should at least conduct elections before leaving lol .(bigsmile)
 

Sedqal

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: TuQ's Long March and Political Outcomes

I have gone through it keenly and feel enriched,too. Thanks for hard work.

1. PPP and PML-N response to TUQ march can not be labelled as support necessarily. The ruling class was not sure whether to harness the movement by repression or let it go freely. They attempted both ways with uncertanity at different stages. Fear of a bang resulting from confrontation and possible spill over country wide was one factor.

2. WUM factor does not count decisively in such mega state of matters. Still broadminded scholars like TUQ offer some hope at least for Shia community, which is trying to find its right place in terror ridden new Pakistan. TUQ's followers can be identified as religiously motivated people but the whole show was about implementation of values and laws acknowledged by democracy as well as Islam.

3. TTP sparing TUQ's march, being a potential target can be understood if initially we decide to believe that TTP is a human body, has certain goals and has some reasons to fight against Pakistan. No matter we agree with them or not, still TTP is a reality on the ground. TUQ does not condone terrorism but has a broad socio democratic agenda, TTP has a religiously overloaded vision for Pakistan and they have zero tolerance for liberals but still they are talking of a human society. TTP spared TUQ on human grounds, wisely avoiding another Malala type outcry. If one likes to look for some "reasons" behind that, it is up to him.

4. Pakistani channels can be identified with their interest when certain opinion making drive with repeated instances is noted but just scattered comments in such a fluid situation are not enough to decide something fishy. Admiringly, I see your capability of a fiction writer who knows the plot beforehand and picks threads in time.I remembered by instinct "The Day of Jackal" and "If Tomorrow Comes" while reading your article.

5. GoP was in court as a routine matter and SC also did what it did, in quite professional way but only the timing of the verdict became the last straw of the moment for PPP and it gave chance to theorists to weave more, with whatever material they had on hand.

6. A lot many people use the word "establishment" in their imaginary world. Some play it as a monster which does not allow civilian rulers to have a say in foreign policy, anti-terror strategy or nuclear issues. Some paint it a Tiger turned Cat in face a defiant democratic national face, strong pro-democracy stand by West, outspoken Pakistani media and too busy on local front. In my view establishment is hand in hand with ruling class and both have a joint task defined by US. Nobody can imagine a Pakistan with its security system collapsing, Railway, the bloodline in case of Indian aggression coming to halt and Air Force loosing 11 Jets (Mirage, mostly) in 18 months only because PAF lacks proper maintenance for no funds available. Can establishment go that far with patience where Pakistan's financial sovereignty and operational integrity shrinking fast at the hands of civilian looters ? Will establishment put Pakistan itself at stake for sake of the romance for baby democracy in cradle for decades ? No, establishment will use necessary leverage to keep things on track. But it does not as we see. That means US plan to harness the fundamentalist state by pushing it towards default is in place and our so called stake holders are under a big thumb.

7. Qadri is not a player but catalyst of another sort. If US is happy with 5 years of our subservience, Qadri is out to disturb that. So, the current ruling set up is the best and time tested choice for US.

8. In fluid situation, I can not predict the ultimate winners of this game, unless it settles down with more realities in place.

9. Many politicians have pointed out the flaws, labeling him a liar, actor etc. One basic problem with putting him under microscope is that he is basically a preacher, nor a politician and insensitive to word count or pseudo accountability. He spoke of 4 million, brought 50 to 80,000 that became a stigma. But the tongues out are political and wickedly hiding the fact that GoP has played a role in blocking protesters at times in last 48 hours. Will anybody tell me when it was in Pakistan's history when a boisterous politician successfully proved what he spoke of. In a country where scale of grandeur and power is to seek animal embodiment, Sher-e-Punjab or casting shadows beyond our borders, like Fakhar-e-Asia, Qadri's intention to gather 4 million but bagging 70-80 thousand only is failure of character or strategy ?

Qadri changes stance ? interesting really. He changes order of popular demands but remains committed to the basic line which is to keep constitutional, electoral, moral and national norms up and above. Since he is basically a preacher, he plays heart beat of masses in his words, it is job of politicians and people of law to transform it into legal order.

sedqal ! hopefully you have witnessed some of those "babus" in mother arms, smiling at you.

10. Tensions on LOC have something to do with scenario inside Islamabad ? If I believe what Pakistan has said and what you are trying to paint, head of Indian soldier must be in Qadri's truck. Do you mind to make a physical confirmation ?

11. I admire your effort to peep into prism of eternity to recover glimpse of the future. I do not believe in guess work which is the very base of your master piece. Our future can be judged from our present and our intentions. I believe Pakistan's next 10 years will not be different to our current decade, except that Pakistan will have been fully sedated with heavy doses of sectarianism, manipulation, lawlessness and poverty. Pakistan, as a burning kiln helps promote Western designs for this region easier. But the decisive historic turn also lies in the same decade or so. When state will be moving like a drunk hippy under duress, this nuclear state will become a threat for peace and security particularly for Asia and the world in general. One page resolution in UN will make it mandatory to keep our nuclear arsenal under international protection. That is how I see the future, pertaining to current path of our ruling class, sincerity of establishment and idiocy of us, the common Pakistanis.

1 - TuQ has been calling them worse then Yazeed because according to him PPP and PMLN barricaded the whole place and stopped them by force. PPPP and PMLN reps on the other hand ask the media to interview and show videos of those who were stopped forcefully (not a single incident has been aired as per my knowledge). Islamabad is the capital and if the Government tries to block major gateways it there is no way that people will be able to go inside. PPPP has not tried to stop them even when TuQ went against his agreement and changed his stance. TuQ also remained silent on the fact that about 7,000 policemen were given to him by GoP.

2 - WuM is extremely important specifically when you are looking at rallys and dharnas (we got a taste of it for one day when Shi'ites rallied around in front of Bilawal house). WuM agreement with Hazara on their ONE POINT agenda is also strange, they are alienating rest of Baluchis for something which has no significance. Baluchis are asking why no Governor rule in KPK and Sindh, their question is legitimate because more people have died through terrorism in these places then in Baluchistan (Baluchistan has a unique position and any transition there should have came through majority - thats another discussion). This one point agenda is also strange when you consider that Army and FC (which is under Army) were the main security forces in the area not Raisani. As much as one may condemn Raisani he simply is not responsible for Baluchistan security today the power to do so does not lie with him. The outcome of this ONE POINT agenda is that civilian government has failed - it is directly related to TuQ who keeps on mentioning that.

3 - TTP has threatened and targeted scholars and other people who disagree with them on one single point (Qazi JI and many other Ahle Sunnah ulema), when they give interviews that they won't touch TuQ it certainly is strange. According to TuQ's fatwa TTP is Wajib ul Qatal. TTP has never regretted Malala incident or any other incident for that matter and there is no history there to suggest that TTP will care for human grounds. They have attacked Jumma prayers in mosques to target one or two people in the whole crowd, killing dozens of common namazis to target a few.

4 - Kamran Khan said that TuQ's statement about PM and President becoming EX was Ilhami. You should see the amount of fairy tales we see here on this forum. All this Ilhami talk is opium for superstitious folks and exactly tailored for TuQ's crowd. If you see today's shows most pro-establishment anchors are rooting for TuQ. Plus the fact that same anchors are pointedly ignoring that court has taken a pronounced stance against TuQ and that today's judgement was not for arresting PM.

5 - My point was that GoP should not have gone to court today and excused itself due to security condition (they have done this many times before). Simple question is why after sending one PM to home would they take a chance today in this environment? The new date would have been at-least week or two weeks later.

6 - As for establishment, it constitutes primarily of serving and ex military officers. Many stooges which jump into every Army govt and Army backed Govt have become a part and parcel with establishment but they only benefit from this relationship and are not calling the shots. Establishment has a very prominent role in Pk as it directs defense and foreign policy. It is a tout of America there is no doubt about it. What you said about keeping things on track is not historically correct considering that establishment has created the very mess we are in today. We have an insurgency in Baluchistan, a Sindhu Desh in Sindh, a war in KPK which has all the potential to turn into an ethnic issue. Establishment vetoed NS when he brought Vajpayee to Lahore. Do you have any idea where we stand today? Iran, India, Afghanistan our neighbors hate us (just look at the surveys in Afghanistan 82 percent support India and 17- 18% support Pakistan). China has developed a sound relationship with India and during the LOC incident said that India and Pakistan should deal this issue among themselves. Mind it Pakistan wanted to bring third parties and it was India who said that bi-lateral talks no third party. China stance is clear as day it will not help Pakistan in a war with India, we are left with US and NATO who hate out guts today and blame us for targeting the in Afghanistan. How much of this mess was created by Civilians please do tell. So the claim that establishment is interfering because of economy is factually incorrect. (I will expand on role of establishment and current regional issues someplace else, it will derail the issue under discussion, suffice is to say that they have failed miserably in safe guarding Pakistan's interest, far FAR more then their civilian counterparts). A safe and timely transaction of power in Pakistan does not suit establishment, democracy (public) and establishment are negatively related. Mature democracy means erosion of power for establishment. To get some perspective on this please remember that police is the main danda force of Pk and Musharraf wanted to create a committee of ex-army generals to overlook police department with a defining role in PROMOTION or DEMOTION of police officers (thus have the whole police under their thumb).

7 - Current system is not good even when PPP has agreed to almost everything establishment proposed. ANP and other Pukhtoon parties want Pakistan to play a positive role in Afghanistan (immensely important for 2014 when Americans move out). These parties also want GoP to operate against TTP (strategic tool which has killed more Pakistanis then India). PTI has taken a vocal position on TTP, PMLN won't follow the establishment directive. So a caretaker Govt is the best bet and TuQ will fit the role perfectly.

8 - Riots have started in Sindh. PPP will play the victim card and snatch sympathies from Sindhi nationalists. Its written on the wall, no Sindhi nationalist can oppose PPP when a Punjabi Mullah forces a Sindhi govt out.

9 - TuQ is a complete drama. He started from a fair electoral system, then went to different provisions within constitution (all lies) when he reached Islamabad he said that Govt should leave else there will be a awami parliament, he also said that now PM and President are EX (this drama is absolutely unconstitutional without a shadow of doubt). TuQ started this drama on the basis that GoP is NOT following the Constitution now he is molesting the same Constitution on basis of street power. TuQ was a lawyer who taught constitution in university so its not possible to say that he was unaware.
As a matter of fact the coming elections will be the best one, we have a far more powerful and fair election commission, a free judiciary which has sent one PM home and working on the next. TuQ and IK took part in elections under Musharraf which was ten times worse then this election commission (hand picked commissioner). They both have taken part in a referendum for God sake now TuQ is rallying for better rules. If you go down deep enough TuQ's message has NO merit.

10 - India threatens non military revenge (on air) and next day is the bloodiest in Pakistan with more then 100 dead in terror attacks (at three separate locations). India will use any internal problems in Pakistan to its benefit. Where are we today? India is threatening to attack while Pakistan is held down with TuQ establishing Awami parliaments in front of Parliament. If India attacks today who will lead this nation? Who will make the decisions?

11 - Thanks for the compliment and all these pieces are there in front of us (check out Talat Hussain's recent program he goes through many points I have mentioned). Please keep in mind that USA has been supporting dictators in Pk, this is not allegation but there are whole accounts of this relationship in books written by Americans. From what I have gathered any civilian government towing the American line will die a political death, only Army can provide these stooges (like it did 3 times before). I am still confident that Pakistanis will come out of this mess if and only if Army can be limited to barracks.

sedqal ! hopefully you have witnessed some of those "babus" in mother arms, smiling at you.
I don't know what you meant here, please elaborate.
 
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