Vitamin_C
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
What else did your parents teach you. I am very curious now.
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What else did your parents teach you. I am very curious now.
tz00007
Minister (2k+ posts)
again if ur truthful, show me even single one sentence of mine where i showed hatred for shias???????????? why r u so dumb n idiot???
n if ur from tribal then im also from tribal area... sta pashanti botalan ma der lidali.. za di der kha pejanam chi sa shaye ye...
aale sufian ka naam le k tumne apni asliat bhi zahir kar di... me bhi tumhe aese aese naam le sakta hun k teri agli pichli jal jayegi.. but i dont want to get into sectarian fight..which ur trying ur best to drag me into... Allah ki ****** ho jhootey pe...
n if ur from tribal then im also from tribal area... sta pashanti botalan ma der lidali.. za di der kha pejanam chi sa shaye ye...
aale sufian ka naam le k tumne apni asliat bhi zahir kar di... me bhi tumhe aese aese naam le sakta hun k teri agli pichli jal jayegi.. but i dont want to get into sectarian fight..which ur trying ur best to drag me into... Allah ki ****** ho jhootey pe...
i told u earlier i cannot be like u cus i have a diffrent family back ground i dont blame ur family cus it is very easy to do wat ur parents dont teach u if ur pashtoon then i respect ur family thats wat i can answer u and i m not in position after ur last reply to carry on with in this debate with u you can check ur quotes in last just want to let u know if u check my all previos post here i never started any sectarian haterd debate but yes offcourse i always try to defend if some one bring a false propogenda here in this same forum some one curse my family but i dont reply in same way
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Dear,
Don t go into theories about the hatred, which the Iranians have for the Americans . . . . Talk about fact . . . . If there was so hatred, why America became the first country to recognize Iran after revolution . . . . And I don t remember correctly as France, if I am not wrong became the second country to recognize Iran after revolution . . . . Where as Pakistan kept on begging the Americans to recognize Taliban Government from 1996 to 2000, and the Americans were not not ready . . . .
And I totally agree with you that if one Sunni/Shite support the Americans, it does nt meant that every one is pro American . . . . Here we are talking about policies of the countries with respect to their internal subjects and their international relations . . . . And I don t mind you praying in a Shite Mosque . . . . But I stick to my point that (And if I am wrong please deny my claim), In Iran, every Sunni mosque was taken into the government custody after the revolution and Imams been appointed as per the Shite Fiqah . . . . Meaning that theoratically and practically, no Sunni Mosque exist . . . . Yes as per the constitution, every Sunni is free to observe his religion and can go to any of those state run Mosques . . . . and believe me, as the Saudis or even the Taliban never took such step of taking into custody the opposite sect mosques . . . .
And I again ask, what would be the reaction of Pakistani shites, if the Sunni Majority would take their Imam Barghas into custody and would implement Hanafi Fiqah over them . . . .
Than USA very rightly froze all the Iranian assets, but returned most in 1983, at the time of President Reagon . . . . It is now a fact that the USA covertly supplied Iranians with military hardware and spare parts during Iran-Iraq War . . . . And it had nothing to do with Iranian Shites, but it was the Iranian Jewish lobby (After the Pro Israeli Jewish Lobby, Iranian Jewish Lobby is the second most influential lobby in Washington, Since Iran has the Third Highest number of Settled Jewish Population in the World) which forced US Government for the release of weapons . . . . And this is what International affairs are . . . .
Therefore, I am not asking you to hate the Shites, but am only asking you not to believe false propaganda . . . . In the same way as the Saudis and Americans have common interests, And the same way the Iranians and Americans have common interests too . . . . In fact, Iran is the only Country in the region, which benefitted most from the American invasion upon Afghanistan and Iraq . . . . In Iraq, specially, the Iranians helped the americans in breaking the back of the insurgency . . . .
And I don t know from where you have bought the notion of my self supporting an attack on Iran . . . . Sir, I am among those believers, who firmly believe that the Americans will never going to Attack Iran, as they have common interests . . . .
Niether am I asking for US bombardment on Syria . . . . What I am supporting is the current Turkish initiative of helping the Free Syrian Mujahideens to topple the Bashar brutal regime . . . . And if Syria involves a super power in the conflict by inviting the Russian Troops . . . . Than its up to the Turks to indirectly involves the americans if they like . . . . The same way as Pakistan involved the Americans after the Russian Invasion of Afghanistan . . . .
Ball is in Bashar the Butcher's Court to decide . . . . He and his murderous clan has to leave the power any way . . . . One is the peace ful way and the other is full of Blood . . . .
Vitamin_C
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
USA had very good relations with Shah of Iran before revolution, there is nothing wrong with recognizing a country, it just means recognizing facts, which is no big deal. Taliban Govt was not the only powerful group in Afghanistan, there were many powerful warlords and the country had been in a state of civil war, even in 2001 taliban did not have complete control over the country, also many countries including Iran considered the taliban as terrorists.
About Sunni and Shia mosques in Iran, you are completely miss informed, you have never been to Iran and you claim to know it very well.
In Iran constitution does not allow you to label your mosque as sunni or shia, of you pray behind a shia imam it doesnt make it a shia mosque if you pray behind Sunni imam it doesnt make it sunni likewise. There is great stress upon unity of Shia and Sunni in Iran, it is not like in Pakistan. Here is what law says:
If there is an Area where majority is of SHIAs, then Sunni are asked to pray behind Shia Imam.
While Areas, where there is Sunni Majority, there Shias are also asked to go in that same Sunni Mosque and pray behind the Sunni Imam and they are not allowed to open up their any Separate Mosque.
Even Ayatullah Khamenei has pray behind Sunni Imams.
Where as in Pakistan you will find 3-4 different kind of mosques at the same place 10m from each other for different sects, one for deobandi one for barelvi, one for shia, one for Ahlehadith... What does that tell you about unity in our country?
There are more sunni mosques/Sunni person than there are Shia mosques/ shia citizens in Iran. OFC meaning where shia or sunni imam lead prayers.
The law says there are no Sunni or Shia mosques but all mosques are houses of Allah.While Areas, where there is Sunni Majority, there Shias are also asked to go in that same Sunni Mosque and pray behind the Sunni Imam and they are not allowed to open up their any Separate Mosque.
Even Ayatullah Khamenei has pray behind Sunni Imams.
Where as in Pakistan you will find 3-4 different kind of mosques at the same place 10m from each other for different sects, one for deobandi one for barelvi, one for shia, one for Ahlehadith... What does that tell you about unity in our country?
There are more sunni mosques/Sunni person than there are Shia mosques/ shia citizens in Iran. OFC meaning where shia or sunni imam lead prayers.
here is the link to the constitution: http://www.jahannews.com/vdcevx8e.jh8epi9bbj.html
In Iran-Iraq war both Soviet Union and US were in crisis and needed to export their weapons for profits, what better way to profit by selling arms to 2 Muslim neighbors to beat the hell out of each other? that was the reality of Iran Iraq war. But most of the support went to Saddam, Iranians did not have advanced equipment as Saddam's army did.
About the Iranian Jewish lobby, Iran is one of those countries which are most united no matter what religion you are, even though Jews are were inconsiderable minority, they still get a reserved seat in the parliament. Don't mix Jews with Zionism they are 2 very different things, there are Jews in Israel who oppose the state of Israel, dont discriminate between religion, of someone is a Jew doesn't mean he is a bad person. The word Jewish lobby is over-rated by Wahabis and people who kill others on the bases of their religion.
As for Common interests, there are many countries in the world who have common interest, India and Pakistan have many common interest does it make them friends? Also there are also conflicts of interest... For ex US support for Israel and Irans enimity with Israel. USA and Iran have been Archenemies since decades, there have even been skirmishes in the Persian gulf between them when they damaged and sunk each others ships. USA and Iran have no relation with each other which can be proven by the fact that they do not even host an embassy in each others countries.
No foreign country in the world has the right to discuss regime change in any country, its the Syrians own business and should be left to them, many countries have been destroyed because of foreign intervention, one of the main examples is India and Pakistan, before foreign intervention Muslims were in power, foreign intervention unfairly tips the balance of power in other parties favour. I believe in God and not in USA, if there is going to be any foreign intervention its going to be Allah, he will do what is best for the Syrian people.
Id suggest Bashar not to leave power, it would create a power vacuum and another even more brutal power hungry group would come to power, or even a western puppet might come to power who will sell his country.
Afghanistan has been invaded twice by the Russians, twice by the British and once by the Americans, all claiming to make Afghanistan a better place, now the beatiful country has been messed so badly that they do not know what has happened with them.
I know it looks brutal when a Hyenna kills a cute little baby deer, but you cannot intervene let nature take its course. Nothing is evil and nothing is good in the end good takes over evil on its own, intervention will make it so worse that Syria will not be able to recover for 100years. So hardship of 5-10 years is better than hardship and uncertainity of 100 years.
I doubt Russia or USA will get involved unless the Arab spineless league allows them to, because it is illegal to initiate regime change in another country. Alsi I doubt Basher would allow Russians in his country that would create even more collateral damage in the country. More militants = more fighting = more casualties.
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Dear,
I thought as if I am talking to a voice of reason . . . . But your above post have now left me in no doubt that you are a much biased person bent upon supporting Iran and its policies of hypocracy in the region . . . .
If recognizing facts is no big deal . . . . Than by 1998, Taliban were controlling 95 percent of the population and 90 percent of the Area, Was it not a fact for the USA . . . . And one has to be a nut to say that the Talibanwas not the only powerful group . . . . There were not many power ful warlords as claim by you as all either have fled to Pakistan or Iran, or some left overs where squeezed to that Northern Alliance Pocket . . . . In fact, after the loss of Mazar Sharif, and the decision of the Uzbeks to join Taliban, Northern alliance were dying a natural death . . . . Thanks to the American Intervention after the 9/11, which gave them a new soul . . . . And does Iran considering the Taliban as Terrorists has any thing to do with the USA's decision . . . . Indeed, commenting like such, you seems to be a spokesperson for the Iranian Government . . . .
Rest, at least you agreed with my point regarding the Mosque Issue but gave the justification that there are no Sunni or Shite Mosques and all the mosques are the house of God . . . . Philosphically, beautiful thinking . . . . But for a minority, such rules will only result in loosing more rights . . . . As Sunnis are officially just ten percent of the population . . . . therefore they cant be in Majority any where, except some remort places in Iranian Baluchistan . . . . Suppose if Pakistani Government, tommorow implement such order . . . . What would be the result ? . . . . As Shites with a similar ten percent of Pakistani population will going to loose hundreds of their Imam Barghas through out the country except in some areas of Gilgit and Para Chinnar . . . . You are free to assume the reaction of the Shite Minority . . . . And not only them, but also the Ahl e Hadees, Ismailis, Qadiyanis etc . . . . Therefore, are you ready to implement the same Mosque law here in Pakistan ?
Than about the Iran-Iraq War . . . . I think you hav nt read any thing about it, therefore I advises you to read . . . . Ans since this my subject due to my studies, therefore, the fact is that Iraqi Army was much inferior to the Iranis in terms of technology and military hardware . . . . However, they proved to be better stretigists due to one reasons . . . . That was the summary execution of the entire Iranian Military General staff by Khomeni, therefore, at time of war there were no competent Generals to command the Army except the Mullas . . . . Saddam Strategies succeded because there was no Irani planning at all . . . . With the War going on, however, both sides learned a lot . . . .
Regarding the Military Hardware . . . . Iraqis were supplied weapons by the Russians and French, and Saddam purchased them through money provided by the Kuwait and Saudis . . . . Iranians, in return were supplied Arms through America and Israel (And I am pasting the report for this supply of Arm at the end of this post . . . . Must go through and also read the famous Contra Affair), And an eastimated 6 billion dollars of miltary hardware was supplied to Iran between 1981 to 1988 . . . . Now compare this with the military hardware supplied to Pakistan between 1982 to 1988, as this amounted to 3.2 billion dollars . . . . And the advance equipment possessed by the Iranians included Hawk Air Defence System, F-5 Fighters, F-14 TomCats, Tow Missiles, Cobra Gunship Choppers, Chinooks Choppers, Stinger Missiles, M-48 and M-60 Main Battle Tanks, Harpoon Missiles, M-16 Rifles and etc . . . . And still you say that Iranians do not have advanced weapons . . . .
Now you may differentiate between two types of Jews . . . . But my Holy Prophet (SAW) never did . . . . Holy Prophet (SAW) words are clear that Jews and Christains can t be your friends . . . . Therefore, instead of agreeing with you, I will agree with my Prophet (SAW) . . . .
And India and Pakistan have no common interests (I don t know from where you find one), and that is the reason that they are fighting from the last 60 years . . . . Iran, America and Israel have common interests, therefore, they never have killed a single Soldier of each other . . . . And for damaging and sinking each other ships, I again advise you to read history and you ll come to know many astonishing facts . . . .
And if no country in the world has the right to discuss regime change in another country . . . . Than who gave the right to the Iranians to discuss regime change in Bahrain . . . . Kuwait and even Saudi Arabia . . . . I want your Answer that do the Iranians have the right to support regime change in these three countries . . . .
Than very beautifully, you left it upon All to deal with the Barbarism being committed in Syria by that Bast*** Bashar . . . . If that is the case, than what is the need for Jihad any where . . . . What is the need for Muslim Armies . . . . Allah help those, who help themselves . . . . Therefore, don t try to illegitimze Syrian Jihad . . . . Those who are fighting against Bashar Clan and those who are helping including Turkey, Iraqi and Egyptian Mujahideen are doing the right thing . . . .
And my Question to all those who supported the regime change in Taliban Afghanistan and Saddam Iraq . . . . Why they are not supporting the regime change in Bashar Syria . . . . Or their reason is sectarian in nature . . . .
[h=1]The Iran Pipeline: A Hidden Chapter/A special report.; U.S. Said to Have Allowed Israel to Sell Arms to Iran[/h]
By SEYMOUR M. HERSH
Published: December 08, 1991
Soon after taking office in 1981, the Reagan Administration secretly and abruptly changed United States policy and allowed Israel to sell several billion dollars' worth of American-made arms, spare parts and ammunition to the Iranian Government, according to former senior Reagan Administration officials and Israeli officials.
The flow of arms began only a few months after the American hostages seized at the United States Embassy in Teheran in 1979 were released on Inauguration Day in 1981. The United States specifically authorized Israel to make the sales to Iran for a period that by different accounts ranged from 6 to 18 months. But the United States watched them continue after that, even as the Reagan Administration aggressively promoted a public campaign, known as Operation Staunch, to stop worldwide transfers of military goods to Iran. First Evidence of Link
Occasional published reports since 1981 have linked Israel to the sale of some American-made arms and spare parts to Iran in the early 1980's, but no United States Government authority for those sales has been publicly demonstrated before now. The change in policy came before the Iranian-sponsored seizure of American hostages in Lebanon began in 1982, eventually leading the White House to trade arms for hostages in the Iran-contra affair.
Iran at that time was in dire need of arms and spare parts for its American-made arsenal to defend itself against Iraq, which had attacked it in September 1980. Israel was interested in keeping the war between Iran and Iraq going to insure that these two potential enemies remained preoccupied with each other.
No American rationale for permitting covert arms sales to Iran could be established. Disclosure of the Reagan Administration's agreement with Israel comes as Congress has authorized limited investigations into continuing allegations that Reagan campaign officials made a deal with the Iranian Government of Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini in the fall of 1980. In the months before the presidential election in November, partisans on each side expressed concern that the other would carry out some last-minute deal to free the embassy hostages -- or delay their freedom -- for political gain. To both camps that became known as the "October surprise." Over 100 Interviewed
In recent months attention has been focused on the "October surprise" scenario holding that the Reagan campaign team made a deal with the Iranians to delay the release of the hostages until after the election.
A New York Times inquiry over the last three months involving interviews with more than 100 present and former Government officials, arms dealers, intelligence agents and others with direct knowledge of aspects of the operation found no link between the Israeli arms sales to Iran in the early 1980's and the "October surprise" allegations.
The inquiry did show that Secretary of State Alexander M. Haig Jr. and Prime Minister Menachem Begin of Israel worked out an agreement in 1981 under which the United States would review and approve Iranian requests to Israel for American-made spare parts and other equipment on a case-by-base basis.
The Administration rescinded that agreement in the spring of 1982, senior American and Israeli officials recalled, after Mr. Haig and his aides concluded that the Israeli Defense Minister, Ariel Sharon, was selling American-made military materiel without Washington's permission. The United States routinely reserves the right to prohibit the resale of American-made weapons.
Asked for comment, Sherwood Goldberg, a longtime adviser to Mr. Haig, issued the following statement: "At no time did Alexander Haig authorize shipment of U.S. equipment from Israel to Iran, and any inference to the contrary is categorically wrong." Ex-Israeli Aide Describes the Deals
But Maj. Gen. Avraham Tamir, a high-ranking Israeli Defense Ministry official in 1981 who later served as director general of the Foreign Ministry, remembered the arms dealings.
"Every month we gave a list of American weapons and American spare parts we'd like to sell to Iran," he said in a telephone interview this week.
As General Tamir recalled it, the "oral agreement" remained in effect for at least 18 months, and in that time typed lists of requests were given to Samuel W. Lewis, who was then the American Ambassador to Israel.
"In the years 1981 and 1982, weapons with U.S. components were sold to Iran based on an understanding with Secretary Haig," General Tamir said. "Then it was stopped. And then arms traders from around the world -- some were Israelis, Americans, English -- continued to sell." He added that those continued sales of American-made arms to Irans totaled billions of dollars.
A former senior American diplomat confirmed General Tamir's account, with several modifications.
In early 1981, he said, "there was an agreement that Haig reached that they could send certain spare parts" to Iran after a review in Washington.
"Sharon violated it, and Haig backed away," the official said. "It was a sore point in the Administration," the former official said.
The former official also said the American agreement lasted no longer than six months before the United States canceled it. Daily Secret Reports Of Sales to Iran
But even after the official agreement was broken, American officials said, the Administration made no effort to curb what became a steadily increasing flow of American-made arms from Israel to Iran. American intelligence officials received steady reports showing that Israel was selling large quantities of American-made arms and other military goods to Teheran, much of it through private arms dealers. These reports were routinely given to senior officials in the White House and elsewhere in the Administration.
"We were getting literally daily reports of Israeli sales to Iran," a former high-level Reagan Administration intelligence official said. "It was so routine I didn't think twice about it. It was pretty clear that all the key players knew."
The Reagan Administration continued to replenish Israel's stockpile of American-made weapons, despite clear evidence that Israel was shipping them to Iran.
"It was always a gray area," a senior American diplomat said, referring to the Israeli Government's requests for the replacement of ammunition and arms it said had been used in routine military training and exercises. "Are you supplying them stuff that was really shot up in training or was it shipped to Iran?"
It could not be determined when the Israeli program ended, or whether it simply continued until it was overtaken by the arms shipments to Iran that began the Iran-contra affair.
Told of The Times's finding in a telephone interview last week, former President Jimmy Carter said he was "amazed," adding, "I remember vividly statements made from the White House that there would be no rewarding of kidnappers or terrorists."
While Mr. Carter, as President, would not tolerate the sale of any arms to Iran, during the 1980 re-election campaign his Administaton did offer to accept an Iranian request and release embargoed Iranian military goods worth about $150 million -- if the hostages were freed. But after Mr. Carter referred publicly to this, the Iranians said they were no longer interested.
In the interview, Mr. Carter renewed his call for a full investigation of the "October surprise" allegations.
After extensive discussion this fall, the Senate Foreign Relations and House Foreign Affairs committees authorized inquiries into the allegations, but neither committee's requests for additional funding and subpoena authority were acted upon before adjournment.
At the height of the Israeli program, former Israeli officials said, the Israeli Government covertly chartered a large number of cargo ships, registered in Denmark and Liberia. They carried arms between the ports of Eilat in Israel and Bandar Abbas in Iran, making the round trip once a month.
Chartered aircraft from Argentina, Ireland and the United States were used to fly American-made arms to Israel and, in some cases, directly to Teheran.
No precise estimate of the volume of goods shipped could be made. But in interviews, Israeli and American intelligence officials acknowledged that weapons, spare parts and ammunition worth several billion dollars flowed to Iran each year during the early 1980's.
According to former Israeli Government officials, some of the chartered flights carrying American arms for Iran originated from a covert air base near Tucson, Ariz., known as Marana Air Park. For years, the Central Intelligence Agency has used Marana for secret arms shipments. In the mid-1980's, C.I.A. operatives and others used the field for the secret program to resupply the Nicaraguan rebels during the years that Congress had barred aid to the contras.
Ari Ben Menashe, a former Israeli intelligence operative, said Israel had also established an undercover office in New York City to direct the covert purchases of American-made military equipment for resale to Iran.
Among these weapons, other officials said, were some of the most advanced arms in the American arsenal, including Hawk anti-aircraft missiles, Lance surface-to-surface missiles, TOW anti-tank missiles and armor-piercing shells. Under American law, Israel was not permitted to resell weapons of this sort without approval from Washington.
The Times inquiry was able to verify that Mr. Ben Menashe was among the Israeli officials and operatives who brokered arms deals in the program to sell American-made arms to Iran during the early 1980's. On behalf of the Israeli Government, he said, he helped manage a worldwide network of private arms dealers and shippers responsible for selling American arms worth several billion dollars to Iran.
Mr. Ben Menashe has asserted that George Bush, when he was a Vice-Presidential candidate, played a direct role in the purported "October surprise." This accusation has been denied by Mr. Bush and others.
In interviews, several American arms dealers with ties to the C.I.A. said they knew Mr. Ben-Menashe as an Israeli intelligence operative who occasionally operated under diplomatic cover. Each assertion he made about the Israeli program to sell arms to Iran was verified with several other sources.
Mr. Ben Menashe said the covert Isreali operation in New York was moved to London in 1983 because Israeli officials feared that it had been compromised after a New York Times report in 1982 saying Iran was receiving American-made arms from Israel worth hundreds of millions of dollars.
After that report was published, its author, Leslie H. Gelb, interviewed a woman who worked in the covert New York office. She described it to Mr. Gelb. And when Mr. Ben Menashe also described it to him later, the two descriptions matched.
One former high-level Central Intelligence Agency official who saw reports of the Israeli arms sales to Iran in the early 1980's estimated that the total approached $2 billion each year. But he added, "The degree to which it was sanctioned I don't know." A Sales Contract Is Described
One sales contract described a proposed sale to Iran of $136 million in American military equipment. It was signed in July 24, 1981, by a former Israeli intelligence official, Yaacov Nimrodi, and called for the shipment to Iran from Rotterdam of 50 Lance missiles and 68 Hawk missiles, as well as nearly 13,000 rounds of 155-millmeter howitzer ammunition.
The contract, if carried out, would have provided the Iranian military with Hawk missiles four years before the first known shipment of American Hawks in November 1985, as part of the Iran-contra affair.
In a telephone interview, Mr. Nimrodi vehemently denied that he had sold any arms to the Khomeini Government, though several investigations showed that he played a role in the early stages of the Iran-contra affair.
The Nimrodi-Iran contract was one of many obtained by the Danish Seamen's Union, whose leadership conducted an extensive investigation of the illicit traffic between Western Europe and Iran in the mid-1980's.
Henrik Berlau, president of the union, said in an interview that his union was sure that the Nimrodi contract was fulfilled.
Mr. Berlau said the union's investigation found that by the end of 1985, Danish cargo ships chartered by the Israeli Government and private arms merchants had made as many as 600 voyages carrying American-made arms between Eilat and Bandar Abbas.
The former high-level Reagan Administration intelligence official said the intelligence agencies paid particular attention to Israel's efforts to provide spare parts for Iran's large fleet of American-made F-14 fighter aircraft. The Shah had purchased them as as part of the more than $17 billion he spent on American arms between 1970 and his overthrow in 1979.
Mr. Haig's withdrawal of authority for the Iranian resupply operation did not diminish the flow of spare parts and other equipment for Iran's F-14 fleet. It could not be learned how those sensitive items, whose exports are closely monitored by American officials, were transferred from United States stockpiles to Israel, which has no F-14's.
As the reports continued, the official said, he and others used them to figure out how the Iranian Air Force was faring in the war.
"We were monitoring their capabilities by watching their requests for spare parts through Israel," he said. McFarlane Denies A Coordinating Role
Former Israeli officials said the 1981 agreement with Mr. Haig was coordinated by Robert C. McFarlane, who was then the State Department counselor. Mr. McFarlane denied that.
In a statement provided by his attorney, Leonard Garment, Mr. McFarlane said he "saw unconfirmed reports in 1981 that the Israelis were making shipments" to Iran. He said he had subsequently requested and obtained assurances from a Cabinet-level official that "any such shipments did not have U.S. approval."
Mr. McFarlane "did not pursue the matter further," Mr. Garment quoted him as saying, "because it was not his watch."
Later, however, Mr. McFarlane specifically denied knowledge of any Israeli shipments to Iran. This came during a meeting late in 1983 with a special fact-finding panel, known as the Long Commission, set up to investigate the terrorist bombing in October 1983 of the Marine barracks in Beirut, Lebanon. .
"I asked the question about Israeli arms going to Iran, and Bud played dumb," a panel member recalled in an interview, using Mr. McFarlane's nickname. "He looked puzzled and said, 'What do you mean?' "
The panel member, an intelligence official who had seen the secret reports on the arms sales, said Mr. McFarlane's denial "really bothered me because by this time we knew that we'd given arms to Israel and some of those arms were ending up in Iran." Haig's Accounts, 10 Years Apart
On Jan. 29, 1981, at his first news conference as Secretary of State, Mr. Haig volunteered the following statement: "Let me state categorically today, there will be no military equipment provided to the Government of Iran, either under earlier obligations and contractual arrangements or as yet unstated requests."
In a PBS television interview 10 years later, however, Mr. Haig acknowledged that Israel might have shipped some American arms to Iran and added: "If that happened, it happened through the good offices of somebody in the White House staff, and I don't discount that. That could have happened."
In a recent interview, Richard V. Allen, who was the national security adviser during most of 1981, said it would have been Mr. Haig -- and not the White House -- who orchestrated a private agreement.
"Given what we've seen unfold in recent years," Mr. Allen said, referring to the Iran-contra scandal, "it is possible" that Secretary Haig consulted with President Reagan on this issue "by the backdoor."
As for the agreement with the Israeli Prime Minister, Mr. Allen added, "It must have been done by word of mouth, or some method of privately conveying consent to Begin to proceed."
Still, he said, "I know of no such agreement." Ex-State Dept. Aide Tells of Agreement
In 1987, when the Senate Iran-contra committee interviewed David Satterfield, then an officer on the Israel desk in the State Department, he testifed that in October 1980, "Israel approached the United States about the possibility of selling arms to Iran in order to open up a strategic relationship." The Carter Administration rejected the idea.
Mr. Satterfield said the Israelis had come back with the same proposal after Mr. Reagan took office in 1981, saying they "wanted to engage in some arms transactions involving United States weapons" to develop contacts with important Iranian officials.
"Haig told Israel that in principle this was O.K.," Mr. Satterfield said.
He said Israel repeatedly proposed to sell weapons that "went beyond the agreed-upon limited lists" of spare parts. As a result, the Administration became convinced that "Israel was only interested in its own goals in Iran."
Mr. Satterfield is now deputy director of Secretary of State James A. Baker 3d's secretariat. He refused to discuss his 1987 interview, saying his testimony "was classified then and remains classified today."
Vitamin_C
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
"There is nothing wrong with recognizing a country, it just means recognizing facts, which is no big deal." You got my point.
Theres no point on arguing on other non issues.
Dear,
Kindly read my addited post again . . . . As I have added to my post which you ve replied . . . . Hope it will remove all the doubts . . . .
Vitamin_C
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
"If recognizing facts is no big deal . . . . Than by 1998, Taliban were controlling 95 percent of the population and 90 percent of the Area, Was it not a fact for the USA"
We all know that Europeans control all of Palestine, and Golan Heights. Then how come there are so many countries in the world that do not recognize Israel? If the U.S consider Taliban as terrorists as many other countries do, and do not consider the Iranian as terrorist as all other countries don't. Does that mean US is Pro Iranian. Asking for logic is asking for a little to much these days.
"But for a minority, such rules will only result in loosing more rights . . . . As Sunnis are officially just ten percent of the population"
What would you rather have them do? kick all the Shias out of Iran? There are around 70,000 mosques in Iran out of which 60,000 are Shia and 10,000 are Sunni mosques Which is above 14% compared to 10% population. I could only dream of such a day that these rules could be implemented in Pakistan, but its impossible here, there is no unity here as compared to Iran, people kill each other on basis of ethnicity how would you have them to pray in the same mosque that will be a miracle.
"the fact is that Iraqi Army was much inferior to the Iranis in terms of technology and military hardware"
I have read about the war. Iraq had considerable numerological advantage over Iran through out the war. Iran started with a more advance air-force but this was reversed as the war progressed.
Iran had 1,000 tanks, 4,000 armored vehicles, 7,000 artillery pieces, 747 aircraft, 750 helicopters.
Iraq had 3,500 tanks, 8,630 armored vehicles, 12,330 artillery pieces, 3000+ aircraft, 1900+ helicopters + WMDs such as chemical weapons Nerve Gas.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Iraq_War
US made secret arms sale to Iran, but it was not nearly enough and the bulk of support went to Iraq, which received not only financial support from USA and many rich gulf nations but also military support of US Navy and Air-force. I know about the contra affair and the Israeli support. But with no other country supporting, Iran was quite desperate for support.
"Holy Prophet (SAW) words are clear that Jews and Christains can t be your friends"
I have never heard of this before can you source this? I can relate more than one instance to you where Prophet Muhammed pbuh relied on Christians for help.
"And India and Pakistan have no common interests"
I must disagree on this, same of the common interests peace and security in subcontinent, fighting terrorism and extremism, bilateral trade are just a few of them. All countries have at-least a few common interests, economic if not socio political.
I do not have good words for Saddam, he was a tyrant, when he took over Iraq it was like a mafia take over, he always supporting India over Pakistan on Kashmir issue and he was a threat to neighboring Islamic countries. But still no Leader deserves to be hanged.
We all know that Europeans control all of Palestine, and Golan Heights. Then how come there are so many countries in the world that do not recognize Israel? If the U.S consider Taliban as terrorists as many other countries do, and do not consider the Iranian as terrorist as all other countries don't. Does that mean US is Pro Iranian. Asking for logic is asking for a little to much these days.
"But for a minority, such rules will only result in loosing more rights . . . . As Sunnis are officially just ten percent of the population"
What would you rather have them do? kick all the Shias out of Iran? There are around 70,000 mosques in Iran out of which 60,000 are Shia and 10,000 are Sunni mosques Which is above 14% compared to 10% population. I could only dream of such a day that these rules could be implemented in Pakistan, but its impossible here, there is no unity here as compared to Iran, people kill each other on basis of ethnicity how would you have them to pray in the same mosque that will be a miracle.
"the fact is that Iraqi Army was much inferior to the Iranis in terms of technology and military hardware"
I have read about the war. Iraq had considerable numerological advantage over Iran through out the war. Iran started with a more advance air-force but this was reversed as the war progressed.
Iran had 1,000 tanks, 4,000 armored vehicles, 7,000 artillery pieces, 747 aircraft, 750 helicopters.
Iraq had 3,500 tanks, 8,630 armored vehicles, 12,330 artillery pieces, 3000+ aircraft, 1900+ helicopters + WMDs such as chemical weapons Nerve Gas.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran–Iraq_War
US made secret arms sale to Iran, but it was not nearly enough and the bulk of support went to Iraq, which received not only financial support from USA and many rich gulf nations but also military support of US Navy and Air-force. I know about the contra affair and the Israeli support. But with no other country supporting, Iran was quite desperate for support.
"Holy Prophet (SAW) words are clear that Jews and Christains can t be your friends"
I have never heard of this before can you source this? I can relate more than one instance to you where Prophet Muhammed pbuh relied on Christians for help.
"And India and Pakistan have no common interests"
I must disagree on this, same of the common interests peace and security in subcontinent, fighting terrorism and extremism, bilateral trade are just a few of them. All countries have at-least a few common interests, economic if not socio political.
I do not have good words for Saddam, he was a tyrant, when he took over Iraq it was like a mafia take over, he always supporting India over Pakistan on Kashmir issue and he was a threat to neighboring Islamic countries. But still no Leader deserves to be hanged.
Vitamin_C
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
