Citizen X
President (40k+ posts)
Oh My bad. I thought you were, go ahead then
Railway was looted by thieves | Minister for Railways Sheikh Rasheed speech at an event today | PM Imran Khan Present
- Thread starter Amin Khan 1
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RajaRawal111
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
No I was talking about the request I made in my post No 51. I told you to let me finish then respond on point by point.
But I am sure you are not even reading my comments.
Citizen X
President (40k+ posts)
I read that when you posted it so didn't reply until you wrote was I though was your final reply and then replied 20-30 minutes after that. Had no idea you were going to post 7 8 replies. Once again my bad. Well this time mention it clearly you are done and now its my turn to respond
RajaRawal111
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
No problem. If you have read than You must have also read to continue
"if there is anything else in the verdict where you can win and I can badly fail please" ??
If not than we can let this thread die. We shall see each other some where else.
Citizen X
President (40k+ posts)
Ok you are done now?
RajaRawal111
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Citizen X
President (40k+ posts)
Ok good, still gave you an hour just in case you changed your mind
Well other than the few pages mentioning the defenses statement, the entire 131 pages are against you, you couldn't "defend" just two points, went round in circles and landed back on square one from the very beginning. So the same will happen to anything else I present.
So for the 3rd time I am letting you flip sides and present something that you think is wrong, unfair or doesn't make sense to you etc etc. And I will "argue" my case.
RajaRawal111
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
No problem, as i said. i am ready to be not able to defend myself and give you another round of artificial satisfaction. You better bring up something. It was a good play. Seems like you enjoyed it too. That is why you came back. Only request is not to overload it like before. Be short and precise.
For the over all scenerio - - whole case is definitly against Noorey, If there is no 25% of gulf steel. In aevenfield case they could not shut their eyes from what Wajid Zia admitted in court. That is why they were compelled to say "we could not find any criminal proceeds". In this case, realizing their mistake, they never came on this topic Allah Allah Kher Sallah
Citizen X
President (40k+ posts)
See once again you are confusing yourself. Like I've said a gazillion times till now. JIT doesn't matter, Wajid Zia or what he said or didn't say doesn't matter, none of it matters. The burden of proof was and is on The Sharifs to provide the money trail. Everything else is irrelevant.
For arguments sake let say the court accepted the Gulf Steel Sales agreement. Ok then what ? How did that 25% share of 28.5 million Dhs i.e Dhs 7.125 million 1980 become the $32 million needed to set up Aziziya and Hills metal in 2001. When the declared combined wealth of Ganju, Babloo and dabloo at the time was not even a million dollars.
There is a huge gap of 20 years in this money trail with nothing but a nakhatri Qatari khat which itself is based on hearsay and not worth the paper it is printed on. And that no document to show where rest of the $27 million came from to set up the two companies.
RajaRawal111
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Exactly that is why I said that you are not even reading what I am writing. I did address this gap in my post No. 55 and you are bringing it up again.
Two things here.
1: It is not 32 million dollars. You in your own cut and paste from verdict have said it is 16 million. Please read it again.
2: And was it ever said any where that this mill was paid off in total. Were there not any bank loans.
3: The verdict itself said that reply of MLA from Saudia is still not received, So what are you talking about. ???
Citizen X
President (40k+ posts)
Once again the prosecution didn't have to go look for anything. Sharifs had to prove the money trail, why does this not register with you?
If they felt such a bad job was being done, they had more than ample opportunity to say here look here are the taxes I paid in UK from so and so income. Look here are the bank documents for the loan I took to set up my saudi companies etc etc etc, but what was provided. A qatari khat !
The Sharifs were on trial not the govt, they are suppose to put up a defense, provide and prove a money trail.
RajaRawal111
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
You are behaving just like a person who asks you to prove that "you are the legal son of your long dead father. Now I have blamed you it is your responsibility to prove it wrong".
I am hope full that later courts will address this issue. And I think that is why IKs a22 is in so much pain about the deals and NROs. Because he is told by some one that this may not keep standing for long. ((Even though he does not have enough ability to realize it on his own))
Citizen X
President (40k+ posts)
And I can show a verified legal birth certificate stating who my parents are and if even still in doubt can provide a blood and DNA sample if need be.
Your case is imagine you are the govt and I am a middle class man with a small office job but live in a 7 bedroom twin story mansion. Govt questions is this yours I say Alhmadulila yes it is, ok then how were you able to buy it while working a small time job.
Now whose job is it to prove that the mansion is mine, where I got the money to buy it, when, where and for how much I bought it for. Or is it the your i.e the govt job to go looking for my money trail?
Ok just indulge me for a while here, who is this special someone ?
RajaRawal111
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
I meant your ancestry was long gone and you cannot retrieve the DNA without extracting them. But Sorry i was little off with that example. Never really meant the way it sounded. Sorry again
In My case, if I really simulate it with the existing scenario. I claim that My grand father was running a Steel mill, which was sold and my grand father invested it with his friend. Now that friend has not said it one, not twice but thrice in writing that "yes i was invested in our family".
He also said come to me and I will satisfy you with whatever proofs I have. But I will not come to you because you are Baatamiz person of a lower lower level. You Have repetition of insulting and mocking people afterwords. You have an army of photo shopper JAHILS who will use my video or pictures to mock me all of over the world and I have some honers I want to retain.
However you are not going after what i have told you and you are not going to the person who is claiming about holding my investment
My case is simpler than yours ---- if you want to see with open eyes. You can thread my story apart in one day. but you are not doing it.
That some one in No one special. Only a person who understands what law asks. And what law asks is definitely is not the desire of any individual.
Citizen X
President (40k+ posts)
Well in that case you will also end up in jail just like Nawaz. Your word and the word of your friend has absolutely 0 legal value. Otherwise I can send letters from here in Dubai to who ever gets caught with corruption money, saying or this money/property is mine which I gave him in return for an investment he made, and I'm not going to come to Pakistan because I'm afraid I'm going to be made fun of.
The problem is all of this is, this is not a violent crime like murder or robbery, where testimony can used as defense or alibi. This is a white collar crime where only documents give testimony.
The sharifs being such shrewd business men don't have a single piece of paper regarding the whereabouts of such a large sum of money?
Quite the opposite, this fantastical fairy tale can be only believed if you keep your eyes closely shut, ignore all the facts and have your head buried in the sand.
Also why was this Qatari connection never mentioned before this went court? Baloo and Dabloo. Came on TV gave their own versions. Nawaz never mentioned it on his famous "huzoor yeh hain woh zaraiye" speech on the floor of the NA. All threes story doesn't even match each other.
“On the strength of the overwhelming documentary evidence it is concluded that the appearance of letters of Qatari prince are totally a myth.” “It has been proved through the acquired authentic documentary evidence and inconsistencies in the statements of witnesses that Tariq Shafi [PM’s cousin] never handed over AED 12 million to father of Hamad alThani. Hence, no question of any investment in Qatari business and proceeds thereto,” the JIT report concludes."
https://tribune.com.pk/story/1455067/qatari-princes-letters-dismissed-myth/
RajaRawal111
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Here is where I will eat your red pill. You may be absolutely right. however all of that could be assumptions as well.
Qatri did not come to the court and as a result Nawaja is in Jail. The JIT and NAB is taking advantage of this. I saw JIT going to UK, France BVI, Saudi Arabia, Dubai, Abu Dhabi ---- BUT QATAR.
I will shut up if two things are done
1: Take this assumption out put it us as fact that BCCI opened account of Tarqi Shafi on clearing the previous loan. I have a friend in Toronto he is stontch PTI supporter (like all overseas Pakistani). He had to declare bankruptcy on a failed Restaurant project. No bank was giving him loan for next three years but none of the banks ever refused opening basic no credit account.
Search it yourself and you will find this fact. Here is one
https://www.stepchange.org/debt-info/bank-accounts-after-bankruptcy.aspx
And I believe BCCI should also be same. And UAE Govt must have all of the BCCI records saved when it was confiscated. Another MLA will solve that dilemma.
2: Go to Qatari and see what he shows you. Bring whatever he has and put it in-front of nation.
Citizen X
President (40k+ posts)
1. Once again this was the job of the defense, not the prosecution and I duuno where you are going with this but forget BCCI it is more corrupt than the Nooras themselves one of the banks involved in the worlds biggest money laundering and financial crimes of its time. BCCI involvement in this whole thing a coincidence ? Perhaps not.
2. JIT was willing to go to Qatar for Qatari but then realised Qatari was not going to give any documents and most probably just repeat his story of hearsay that he heard from his abba G that baba sharif gave him money and he heard from so and so about this and that and declared going to Qatar "an exercise in futility" and rightly so as mentioned in my earlier post that there was enough documentary proof to label the Qatari letters as a myth
"the JIT repeatedly explains how – in their opinion – recording the Qatari royal’s statement would be an “exercise in futility” since he was not expected to provide any documents to substantiate his claims. "
https://www.dawn.com/news/1345257
And once again job of the defense to prove noora innocent by getting any evidence Nikhatri Qatari might have, not the prosecution.
RajaRawal111
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
What ever BCCI was doing is a totally different business and non issue here. The case is built around the assumption that Tariq shafi had cleared the loans which have been mentioned in the MLA.
Further JIT had assumed this and assumed that on the Qatari. And cases are not decided on the assumptions.
Citizen X
President (40k+ posts)
You are right, its not but just thought I put it out there. But then again as mentioned previously the money trail disappeared after 1980 for 20 years so this really doesn't matter
Also true just like Qatari letter was hearsay and an assumption and held no legal value
And also once again defense saw these deficiencies in the case then it should have gone and gotten the evidence and documents. Since Qatari is such a big yaar of Sharif he would have been more than happy to provide documentary evidence to the Sharifs defense council. No one stopped the defense from going to Qatar and getting it.
RajaRawal111
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
I dont know where it will go ---- but it seems like some one will be eventually going to Qattar and Dubai because this is where everything appears to be stuck now.
(Not in our discussion but in the court -- looking at the IHC verdict on Avenflied bail decision. )
