It's Over, It's Over. Finally the Drama is Over

...[Deleted]...



Also, I think anyone who's followed today's proceedings can also almost come to the same conclusion.



But we need to be watchful. This rouge state within a state, this deep state, it runs very deep, very vicious, like a deep rooted cancer.



It's not over with them and it might never be, but for now, for tonight, for this one mini-anarchy stunt, they've backed off.



They're like that snake that you can't kill, you can't tame but one you just have to protect yourself from.



Don't get me wrong, I am not against an intelligence agency focused on foreign intelligence. They are our first line of defense.



I just hate this cancerous domestic politics adventurous side of it.

Absolutely, we don't have to be too smart to get it(As the planners are dumb otherwise we would not have lost so many wars, not to even mention 10 yrs Taliban Khanz-eeeers advancements)

Just watch what MQM has all of a sudden started to say...these MQM goons were just few days ago were with Qadri but all of a sudden now they are going to destroy karachi...game is still on
 

miafridi

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Stop this nonsense of dragging ISI into this which our enemies have been doing. You remind us of our enemies when you talk of such things.
 

Austad

Councller (250+ posts)
It's not at the moment. Only ISI's off this stunt at this moment, which is like the biggest thing. Rest of the whole episode will fizzle out on its own in few coming days.

So you know ilm-e-ghaib, because you are so sure about ISI's involvement in this whole saga. But, have you ever thought why are those people on the roads? If ISI was behind it, what happened 3 days ago gave them enough reason to take matters in their hand. It is not about ISI/Army. It is about Pakistan. It is about electoral reforms. It is about changing the system where a powerful person can buy NAB, can buy courts, can buy people and can buy decisions.
 

moazzamniaz

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
۔ اگر یہ سب ڈیپ-سٹیٹ نے کروایا ہے جیسا کہ ہاشمی صاحب نے بھی بتا یا ہے تو دھرنے سے پہلے اور دھرنے کے درمیان سب 'باخبر' لوگ یہی بار بار کہہ رہے تھے کہ اس دھرنے کا مقصد ہرگز حکومت کو گرانا نہیں بلکہ نواز حکومت کے پر کاٹ کر نواز کو زرداری کی مانند ایک ڈپٹی کمشنر لیول کا کٹھ پتلی وزیر اعظم بنانا ہے. اور شہباز/نثار کی جنرل راحیل کے ساتھ اولین ملاقاتوں میں یہ ڈیل ،دھرنا شروع ہونے کے چند دن بعد ہی طے پا چکی تھی. تو مجھے سمجھ نہیں آ رہی کہ مبارکباد نواز کے کونسلر ٹائپ وزیر اعظم بننے کی ہے یا کہ ڈیپ سٹیٹ کے ایک بار پھر خارجہ، داخلہ، دفاع، معاشی پالیسی سازی پر قبضہ کرنے کی خوشی میں ہے؟؟؟؟

[h=1]Pakistan crisis puts army back in the driving seat[/h] By Mehreen Zahra-Malik
ISLAMABAD Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:12pm EDT

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[h=3]Related Topics[/h]







(Reuters) - Besieged Pakistan Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif has been assured by the country's military there will be no coup, but in return he must "share space with the army", according to a government source who was privy to recent talks between the two sides.
Last week, as tens of thousands of protesters advanced on the Pakistani capital to demand his resignation, Sharif dispatched two emissaries to consult with the army chief.
He wanted to know if the military was quietly engineering the twin protest movements by cricket star-turned-politician Imran Khan and activist cleric Tahir ul-Qadri, or if, perhaps, it was preparing to stage a coup.
According to a government insider with a first-hand account of the meeting, Sharif's envoys returned with good news and bad: there will be no coup but if he wants his government to survive, from now on it will have to share space with the army.
The army's media wing declined to comment on the meeting.
Thousands of protesters marched to parliament on Tuesday, using a crane and bolt cutters to force their way past barricades of shipping containers, as riot police and paramilitaries watched on after being told not to intervene.
Military spokesman General Asim Bajwa tweeted a reminder to protesters to respect government institutions and called for "meaningful dialogue" to resolve the crisis.
Even if, as seems likely, the Khan and Qadri protests eventually fizzle out due to a lack of overt support from the military, the prime minister will emerge weakened from the crisis in coup-prone Pakistan.
Sharif may have to be subservient to the generals on issues he wanted to handle himself – from the fight against the Taliban to relations with arch foe India and Pakistan's role in neighboring, post-NATO Afghanistan.
"The biggest loser will be Nawaz, cut down to size both by puny political rivals and the powerful army," said a government minister who asked not to be named. "From this moment on, he'll always be looking over his shoulder."
A year ago, few would have predicted that Sharif would be in such trouble: back then, he had just swept to power for a third time in a milestone poll that marked nuclear-armed Pakistan's first transition from one elected government to another.
But in the months that followed, Sharif - who had crossed swords with the army in the past - moved to enhance the clout of the civilian government in a country that has been ruled by the military for more than half of its turbulent history.
He irked the generals by putting former military head Pervez Musharraf, who had ended Sharif's last stint as prime minister in a 1999 coup, on trial for treason.
Sharif also opposed a military offensive to crush Taliban insurgents, sided with a media group that had accused the military of shooting one of its journalists and sought reconciliation with India, the perceived threat that the army uses to justify its huge budget and national importance.
INDIA RAPPROCHEMENT AT RISK
Sources in Sharif's government said that, with civilian-military relations in such bad shape, Sharif suspected that the street protests to unseat him were being manipulated from behind the scenes by the army.
He also feared that, if the agitations turned violent, the army would exploit the situation to seize power for itself.
However, the two close aides who went to see army chief Raheel Sharif in the garrison town of Rawalpindi last Wednesday were told that the military had no intention of intervening.
"The military does not intend to carry out a coup but ... if the government wants to get through its many problems and the four remaining years of its term, it has to share space with the army," said the insider, summing up the message they were given.
"Sharing space" is a familiar euphemism for civilian governments focusing narrowly on domestic political affairs and leaving security and strategic policy to the army.
The fact that the military is back in the driving seat will make it harder for Sharif to deliver the rapprochement with India that he promised when he won the election last year.
Indian media speculated this week that Sharif had already been forced by the generals to scuttle peace talks.
New Delhi on Monday called off a meeting between foreign ministry officials of the two countries, which had been set to take place on Aug. 25, because Pakistan announced its intention to consult Kashmiri separatists ahead of the meeting.
The Himalayan region of Kashmir has been a bone of contention between India and Pakistan since both gained independence in 1947. The two nations have fought three wars, two of them over Kashmir, and came close to a fourth in 2001.
The Pakistani army's predominance could also mean it could torpedo the government's relationship with Afghanistan, where a regional jostle for influence is expected to intensify after the withdrawal of most foreign forces at the end of this year.
PAYING THE PRICE
Few believed that the army would back Khan's bid for power even if it used him to put Sharif on the defensive.
"Even the army knows that Imran Khan may be a great pressure cooker in the kitchen, but you can't trust him to be the chef," said a former intelligence chief who declined to be named.
Sharif may now pay the price for miscalculating that the military may have been willing to let the one-time cricket hero topple him.
"Thinking that Imran could be a game-changer, Nawaz has conceded the maximum to the army," a Sharif aide said.
"From a czar-like prime minister, they (the army) have reduced him to a deputy commissioner-type character who will deal with the day-to-day running of the country while they take care of the important stuff like Afghanistan and India. This is not a small loss."
But Sharif's aides say a stint in jail under Musharraf, followed by exile from Pakistan and five years as leader of the opposition party, have made him realize that he needs to share power to survive.
"This is not the old Nawaz, the wild confrontationalist," said an adviser to the prime minister in Lahore, the capital of his Punjab province power base. "This is the new Nawaz who has learnt the hard way that politics is about living to fight another day."
(Editing by John Chalmers and Mark Bendeich)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/08/19/us-pakistan-politics-military-idUSKBN0GJ2B520140819



 

GeoG

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Thats all fine and dandy but don't forget to ask the present Government not to sit on their butts and do something for the people of this country. It is definately a shame that this moment has to come in the history of this country that being a democrate , I had to defend someone who is not my ideal as a leader. It is also a shame that I had to rebel against my own ideal to save the democratic institutions because he negleced to stay put and stay steady , unwaivering on his initial commetment. I am not feeling victorous when I see thousands of my own country men restored to this kind of tactic to remind the government that they are being neglected too long. If this kind of fiasco not to repeat itself, the democary must produce its fruit and work overtime to deliver. Without it my friend, I do not see any value of this system for too long.




Wow, and wow again ...
beautifuly summed up..
 

wahreh

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Very well put. When its over, i suggest all of us who were here supporting democracy and not neccessarily NS, must change our focus and watch like a hawk on the performance of govt. We must not let ourselves be blind supporters of govt like PTI supporters who instead of informing their leader that he is walking into a ditch keep cheering for him until he falls. Best friend is not the one who praises u all the time but the one who has courage to correct u when really needed. Onwards to democracy !!

Thats all fine and dandy but don't forget to ask the present Government not to sit on their butts and do something for the people of this country. It is definately a shame that this moment has to come in the history of this country that being a democrate , I had to defend someone who is not my ideal as a leader. It is also a shame that I had to rebel against my own ideal to save the democratic institutions because he negleced to stay put and stay steady , unwaivering on his initial commetment. I am not feeling victorous when I see thousands of my own country men restored to this kind of tactic to remind the government that they are being neglected too long. If this kind of fiasco not to repeat itself, the democary must produce its fruit and work overtime to deliver. Without it my friend, I do not see any value of this system for too long.


 

Aik_Sawal

Minister (2k+ posts)
Thanks for the good news but what happened? How is it over. ?

What I've kind of read between the lines is that ISI has totally washed their hands off this task.


Which technically means that all the schemers, the Padris, the Imranis, the Qureshis, the Tareens have been orphaned.


Padri's decided to move back from parliament, he's setting the tone for his people to start going back to their jobs and businesses and the joint sessions of yesterday and today have been very powerful.


Hashmi exposed the deep state yesterday, taking all the risk just on his shoulders and then doing the right thing of sacrificing his post. Today everyone knew who was behind, and how they were pulling the strings.


People power, (first lack of people showing up on Imran's side) and then today people's knowledge of the scum scheming's going on in the bowels of a dark agency, convinced them they can't win against the people no more.


It's 'literally' not over yet. But the head of the snake (in this mini-anarchy drama) has been cut-off. The body of this conspiratorial snake with wriggle and flutter headless until the life-blood drains out of it in next coming days.


Long live the people, long live the true loyal to the people.
 

GeoG

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
۔ اگر یہ سب ڈیپ-سٹیٹ نے کروایا ہے جیسا کہ ہاشمی صاحب نے بھی بتا یا ہے تو دھرنے سے پہلے اور دھرنے کے درمیان سب 'باخبر' لوگ یہی بار بار کہہ رہے تھے کہ اس دھرنے کا مقصد ہرگز حکومت کو گرانا نہیں بلکہ نواز حکومت کے پر کاٹ کر نواز کو زرداری کی مانند ایک ڈپٹی کمشنر لیول کا کٹھ پتلی وزیر اعظم بنانا ہے. اور شہباز/نثار کی جنرل راحیل کے ساتھ اولین ملاقاتوں میں یہ ڈیل ،دھرنا شروع ہونے کے چند دن بعد ہی طے پا چکی تھی. تو مجھے سمجھ نہیں آ رہی کہ مبارکباد نواز کے کونسلر ٹائپ وزیر اعظم بننے کی ہے یا کہ ڈیپ سٹیٹ کے ایک بار پھر خارجہ، داخلہ، دفاع، معاشی پالیسی سازی پر قبضہ کرنے کی خوشی میں ہے؟؟؟؟

Pakistan crisis puts army back in the driving seat

By Mehreen Zahra-Malik
ISLAMABAD Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:12pm EDT


JH's revelations has changed the game upside down
Its more own goal or hit wicket case now...

 

Muqadas

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
کسی نےسوچا تھا کہ ایک بوڑھا لاغرنظرآنےوالاجاویدہاشمی
اچانک اٹھےگا اور پاکستان بھرکی نمائندگی کرتےہوئے
چوتھےمارشل لا کاراستہ اکیلاہی روک دےگا۔

[from twitter]​
 

wahreh

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Ok afridi, may not be isi directly but some how agencies were involved. Otherwise, what shuja pasha and aijaz shah were doing in the middle of all this ? You also must have read todays revelations by SMQs brother about SMQs meetings with ex army generals. Being a reasonable person you should have courage to call a wrong, wrong

Stop this nonsense of dragging ISI into this which our enemies have been doing. You remind us of our enemies when you talk of such things.
 

Aik_Sawal

Minister (2k+ posts)
? ??? ?? ?? ???-???? ?? ?????? ?? ???? ?? ????? ???? ?? ??? ??? ?? ?? ?? ????? ?? ???? ??? ????? ?? ?????? ?? '?????' ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ?? ?? ????? ?? ???? ???? ????? ?? ????? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?? ?? ??? ?? ???? ?? ?????? ?? ????? ??? ???? ????? ???? ?? ??? ???? ???? ???? ????? ??. ??? ?????/???? ?? ???? ????? ?? ???? ????? ???????? ??? ?? ??? ?????? ???? ???? ?? ??? ?? ??? ?? ?? ?? ??? ???. ?? ???? ???? ???? ? ??? ?? ???????? ???? ?? ?????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ?? ?? ?? ??? ???? ?? ??? ??? ??? ?????? ?????? ????? ????? ?????? ???? ?? ???? ???? ?? ???? ??? ??????

So very well put. I totally agree that Army is god in Pakistan. They have cut Nawaz to size. Maybe they never wanted to remove Nawaz to begin with, but the point is that had this been 1990s Pakistan, we would have been back at the stage of rift between deep-state and elected govt. that was in 1998.



But today is a little different. Media is just that little bit free (Massively stupid, but just that little bit free). Judiciary is the same little bit freer. People are that little bit knowledge and because of all of that "people's process" is just that little bit stronger.



I have no wishful hopes that Nawaz will sort the Deep State out or that we will become Japan next month, we will never be that. A country carved out of Artificial borders of hate, and then a nation built within it on intolerance of others (2-nation theory).. will never achieve anything other that bare survival state.



I have no doubts about this harsh reality. But somehow, I just can feel a little bit joy tonight that we've struct Deep State in a way that we (the people) have never in the past and in doing so we just dented it a little, scarred it a little and took just a little chunk of it off its viciously arrogant face.



Don't hate me for this (but I do feel a little bit like this)..



 
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araein

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
100% agreeeeeeeeeeeeeeed

For anyone who's wondering, this is the Silent Guardian and a Watchful Protector ending that I'm talking about:



Thanks for the good news but what happened? How is it over. ?

Yaaar koi mujhay betaeey is waqat Army achi hai ya buri..... Because PML(N) ke leay subah army achi hoti hai then raaaat ko buri ho jaaaat hai..:biggthumpup::biggthumpup::biggthumpup:

I think PML(N) walon ko Pak Army se zayada Nareendar Modi, RAW, CIA se pyaaaaaar hai :biggthumpup::biggthumpup::biggthumpup:
 

Aik_Sawal

Minister (2k+ posts)
Ok afridi, may not be isi directly but some how agencies were involved. Otherwise, what shuja pasha and aijaz shah were doing in the middle of all this ? You also must have read todays revelations by SMQs brother about SMQs meetings with ex army generals. Being a reasonable person you should have courage to call a wrong, wrong


Let him (@miafridi) be, he's got his blinders on and in that tunnel vision he'll not heed any rhyme or reason.


He'd say that SMQ's brother was photoshoped, his voice was fake, GEO is JEW and devil reincarnate.


Then he will say that unless you present to him a video as a proof-evidence of a sazish being planned on a table and then that said video be played on ARY, he would not believe it.


I've tried to reason with him A LOT. He's just one of those people that would never change their mind, no matter how harshly the reality is slapping their face.


(Though I like @miafridi a lot too, because he's always very respectful and very very decent and well spoken, and that's why it hurts me even more when a person of his caliber has chosen to keep the blinders on).
 
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Aik_Sawal

Minister (2k+ posts)
کسی نےسوچا تھا کہ ایک بوڑھا لاغرنظرآنےوالاجاویدہاشمی
اچانک اٹھےگا اور پاکستان بھرکی نمائندگی کرتےہوئے
چوتھےمارشل لا کاراستہ اکیلاہی روک دےگا۔

[from twitter]​
(clap) (clap) (clap)
 

Aik_Sawal

Minister (2k+ posts)
So you know ilm-e-ghaib, because you are so sure about ISI's involvement in this whole saga. But, have you ever thought why are those people on the roads? If ISI was behind it, what happened 3 days ago gave them enough reason to take matters in their hand. It is not about ISI/Army. It is about Pakistan. It is about electoral reforms. It is about changing the system where a powerful person can buy NAB, can buy courts, can buy people and can buy decisions.

I respect you opinion man. Please respect mine.


I don't have ilm-e-ghaib. I just gave my opinion and what I heard around.


What happened three days ago was not enough. Hardly anyone died. It was a good try but not good enough for an Army to react specially when in the scrutiny of free media.
 

Aik_Sawal

Minister (2k+ posts)
@Aik_Sawal
ISI was working without approval of Chie


It's hard for me to believe that, but that's what I've heard that it does operate on something where COAS can't even go.


That's what a spy agency is, by definition.


All of ISI isn't bad - rather it is a critical line of defense for us. I just hate it's interference in domestic politics.
 

WatanDost

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
کسی نےسوچا تھا کہ ایک بوڑھا لاغرنظرآنےوالاجاویدہاشمی
اچانک اٹھےگا اور پاکستان بھرکی نمائندگی کرتےہوئے
چوتھےمارشل لا کاراستہ اکیلاہی روک دےگا۔

[from twitter]​


;)

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