He is not going to go away. He is paid for that. We are not the only users who read this forum. I ignore all the comments from Indians mostly but I can not ignore him becuase I consider it to be my duty to defend my country and my ummah against the disinformation that he is spreading. I do not want to give a single person an impression that we are running out of defence or we do not have any logical argument to put against his statements. The worlds info is on his fingure tips and we have only our eyes and ears to sift the facts from fiction spread by the controlled biased media.
ISI - a brilliant, most efficient intelligence agency --- the pride of pakistan and pakistan's first
He is not going to go away. He is paid for that. We are not the only users who read this forum. I ignore all the comments from Indians mostly but I can not ignore him becuase I consider it to be my duty to defend my country and my ummah against the disinformation that he is spreading. I do not want to give a single person an impression that we are running out of defence or we do not have any logical argument to put against his statements. The worlds info is on his fingure tips and we have only our eyes and ears to sift the facts from fiction spread by the controlled biased media.
gazoomartian
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
yankees go home [hilar]
US State Department
Banned
Fawad Digital Outreach Team US State Department
آپ کا نقطہ نظر اس سوچ اور يقين پر مبنی ہے کہ دہشت گردی کی وبا اور پاکستانی معاشرے پر اس کے اثرات افغانستان ميں امريکہ اور نيٹو افواج کی کاروائ کے نتیجے ميں رونما ہو رہے ہيں۔
يہ يقينی طور پر ايک جانا مانا نقطہ نظر ہے۔ ٹی وی ٹاک شوز پر خاص طور پر کچھ سابقہ فوجی افسران اور بيروکريٹ بھی اسی راۓ کا اظہار کرتے رہتے ہيں۔
ليکن واقعات کا تسلسل اور دہشت گردی کے ممکنہ خطرے کو نظرانداز کرنے سے متعلق مجرمانہ غفلت جس کے نتيجے میں 911 کا واقعہ پيش آيا سرکاری اور تاريخی دستاويزات کی صورت ميں ريکارڈ پر موجود ہيں۔
امريکی حکومت کو افغانستان ميں طالبان کی حکومت، پاکستان کی جانب سے ان کی حمايت اور دہشت گردوں کو محفوظ مقامات فراہم کرنے کے ضمن ميں ان کی پاليسی سے متعلق شدید خدشات تھے۔
طالبان حکومت کے ضمن ميں امريکی حکومت کے تحفظات کا محور ان کے مذہبی اور سياسی عقائد نہیں بلکہ ان کی جانب سے دہشت گردی کی براہراست حمايت اور بنيادی انسانی حقوق کی فراہمی کے ضمن ميں ان کی واضح ناکامی تھی۔
ميں نے اسی فورم پرکچھ دستاويزات کے لنکس ديے ہيں جن سے يہ واضح ہے کہ امريکی حکام کی طرف سے پاکستانی حکام کو طالبان کی جانب سے مسلح دہشت گرد گروپوں کی پشت پناہی کے نتيجے ميں اس خطے ميں بالخصوص اور دنيا بھر ميں بالعموم دہشت گردی کے ممکنہ خطرات سے مسلسل آگاہ کيا گيا تھا۔ قریب 30 سے زائد رپورٹوں ميں جس امر پر سب سے زيادہ زور ديا گيا اس کی بنياد حکومت پاکستان اور طالبان حکومت کے مابين تعلقات کی نوعيت نہيں بلکہ دہشت گردی کے ضمن میں ممکنہ خطرات اور خدشات تھے۔
يہ تمام دستاويزات سال 2001 کے واقعات سے قبل امريکہ اور پاکستان کی حکومتوں کے مابين دہشت گردی کے حوالے سے تبادلہ خيال کی نوعيت کو واضح کرتے ہیں۔
آپ اس دستاويزی ثبوت کا جائزہ ليں اور پھر يہ فيصلہ کريں کہ کيا امريکی حکومت کو پاکستان ميں موجودہ تشدد کا ذمہ دار قرار ديا جا سکتا ہے جبکہ مختلف امريکی افسران کی جانب سے پاکستان ميں حکومتوں کو آنے والے برسوں ميں دہشت گردی کے ممکنہ خطروں کے ضمن میں مسلسل خبردار کيا جا رہا تھا؟
فواد ڈيجيٹل آؤٹ ريچ ٹيم يو ايس اسٹيٹ ڈيپارٹمينٹ
gazoomartian
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Bravo brother (clap)(clap)
taul
Siasat.pk - Blogger
جیسی کرنی ویسی بھرنی >>> تمہاری دہشتگردی کا جواب لوگ دہشتگردی سے ہی دینگے >> تم امریکیوں کا پاگل ہاتھی کا سا حال ہے >> تم لوگوں کو نشہ ہوگیا ہے دوسرے ممالک میں جا کے یعنی جبرن گھس کے دہشتگردی کرنے کا >>> جو تمہاری ہاں میں ہاں نہ ملائے >> تو تم اپنے شیطانی مفادات کے حصول کی کوشش میں پراپیگنڈہ پہ پراپیگنڈہ شروع کر دیتے ہو
جس کا انجام اس ملک میں دہشتگردی کی بدترین صورت اختیار کر لیتا ہے
اور پھر تم نہایت ہی معصوم بننے کی پرلے درجے کی ناکام کوششوں کا سلسلہ شروع کر دیتے ہو
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Geek
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Ya very independent lemme show you some glimpse.
Bhopal Disaster: 1984 It took your judiciary 26 years to come to some decision, and what a joke was this decision with the poor people who suffered coz of this tragedy.
Reason: your American friends were responsible for this tragedy (clap)
Samjhota Express : No progress since last four years.:angry_smile:
Reason: Coz your Indian army officers were involved in it .Hemant Karkare was killed because he found links between Hindu terrorist groups and Indian army officers (omg)
Mumbai Attack: The 26/11 trial, perhaps the fastest in a terror case in India, had commenced on May 8, 2009, in a special court set up at Arthur Road Jail.
Reason: I think every body knows, so no need to explain.;)
how could you know, are we childhood friends.lol
lollywood is on death bed coz those stupid are trying to copy your beloved bollywood, and it is bound to happen when they will copy some one who is already copying Hollywood. (yapping)
Btw im denying it coz i have common sense to judge what is original and what is fake. (serious)
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gazoomartian
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Yup, Germany, japan, korea, Vietnam, Afghan, Granada, Palestine, Panama, Iraq, now working on Iran, Arms supplied to ygoslavia, serbia thru Israel, Sri lanka, etc
and the are still a civilized nation and we are the terrorists
بھائی ایک بات میں کہونگا فواد کے بارے میں
بڑی قوّت برداشت ہے ان میں - اتنے جوابات پر بھی یہ چپ نہیں کرتے - نوکری بھی عجیب شی ہوتی ہے
woh bhi minimum wage per
(bigsmile)
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I said it is better than pakistan's, never claimed it is fast and best in the world. Also you didn't reply to close door trial in pakistan. What you think could be the reason? hmm...lemme me guess ISI link expose may be. ;)
Don't crack me up. :lol: BTW your govt has already accepted the fake verdict. (bigsmile)
Geek
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
The same reason that you have for Samjhota Express. ;)
And what funny in it (hmm) may be you heard first time about common sense, ya i can understand your plight coz i know common sense is not so common, don't worry my friend may be you will get chance when you will grow up.
And lemme give you some free tuition don't trust governments they always lie for their own interests. e.g USA, UK, India, Pakistan etc etc. :P
Samjhota Express is an open trial...LOL.... I agree common sense is not that common, you need to catch up with it fast. You can come to a conclusion by just looking at a video and using your common sense or lack of it, that's funny
And yes I heard it for the first time from a person who lacks it. ;)
So now you tell me why the 26/11 trial is closed door in pakistan? (hmm)
Geek
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Ya Smajhota express is open trial , like Bhopal trial it will also take another 28 years (yapping)and poor victims will die without justice :( .My answer is you have your way to do things we have your way to do things. you drag it for 20 plus years we do it behind the doors.(serious)
isn't it strange a man who himself needs common sense asking me to catchup common sense (bigsmile). About video i already told you it just needs common sense to differentiate b/w original and 3rd rate acting like this one;). try to watch it with open mind you will get the answer.(yapping)
Well I am convinced now that you don't have any sense, common or uncommon.
1. You ran out of arguments and diverted the discussion on open and close door trials to the length of the trials (as if court cases do not drag on for years in pakistan, even political murder cases never get solved).
2. You believe just watching a 10 min. video is good enough for deciding high profile terrorism cases i.e., no courts, no investigation, no evidence, no trial, etc. required.
3. You want to live in denial by choice, when even your govt., media (Geo was the first to expose Kasab's nationality), UN and rest of the world has accepted the truth.
No wonder pakistan is in such a state because of people like you. ;)
I am done with this thread now otherwise this ping pong match will go on for ever, but you can continue I have no problem reading your posts. :)
Cheers!
Geek
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
I have same opinion for you buddy from very first post. I have seen many like you running away with this bla bla, when they have no sensible argument to come up with.:lol:
Actually it was you who diverted this discussion I provided the examples to prove that your courts make decision under the pressure of Hindu terrorist groups and government. you are contentiously denying it, n coz you have no answer you are trying to hide under counter questions. (thumbsdown)
no court no investigation no trial because i already told you how much independent your courts are, what to say for investigation agencies.(yapping)
ya no wonder poor people of india are in this situation coz of people like you. and you will definitely come again to vent your frustration.;)
Cheers!
Dirty ISI Stalks Poor CIA, Again
Ahmed Quraishi 06 Jul 2010 A dirty program is underway in Afghanistan where poor elements within Pakistani religious groups are recruited to conduct senseless mass murders and bombings in Pakistani cities. Terror outposts in South Waziristan are used as conduits but the puppeteers hide inside outposts along the Afghan border.
A Washington Post story today, titled, 'CIA and Pakistan locked in aggressive spy battles', accuses ISI of trying to penetrate CIA outposts inside Pakistan.
The thrust is that Pakistan and ISI are paranoid and that the poor CIA agents are doing nothing wrong and yet are being harassed [remember the US media stories last year about Pakistan 'harassing' US diplomats? Well, now we're harassing CIA agents!].
But there is, however, a self-serving half-sentence innocently buried in the 1,467-word report. This half-sentence is supposed to provide a reason for Pakistani suspicions.
That half-line says, 'The CIA has repeatedly tried to penetrate the ISI and learn more about Pakistan's nuclear program.'
That's all. The tone of the author of the report is that it is ok for the CIA to try to penetrate ISI and 'learn' about Pakistan's nuclear program but that it is wrong for the ISI to counter this unwarranted meddling and protect Pakistan's interests.
Rest of the report is a sap story about how the bad ISI is trying to spy on CIA.
This is not the first report of its kind published by the US media. There have been several stories like this during the past three years. They coincided with rising voices in Pakistan about CIA playing double games with Pakistan. In plain words, CIA has been deceiving Pakistan from the start of Washington's 2002 Afghan adventure, courting Pakistan while empowering anti-Pakistan forces in the region.
This attack against ISI is part of an effort to drown out Pakistani complaints. The United States has shown that it is adept at managing media and info wars. Pakistan is no match.
The truth is that ISI cooperated honestly with CIA after 9/11 but the Americans played a double game with Pakistan and turned the Afghan soil into 'Anti-Pakistan Central' and generally made life miserable for Pakistan and Pakistanis in their own neighborhood. And now when Washington's game is up the Americans are trying to atone for their sins through aid programs and generous public praise.
Nevertheless, dirty American games against Pakistan continue unabated. Terrorists claiming to represent Pakistani Baloch continue to find safe havens in Kabul and Kandahar, and money and weapons continue to flow from Afghanistan to terrorists who use them to kill Pakistanis by the dozens. There is also a dirty program underway in Afghanistan where poor elements within Pakistani religious groups are recruited to conduct senseless mass murders and bombings in Pakistani cities. Terror outposts in South Waziristan are used as conduits but the puppeteers hide inside outposts along the Afghan border. These bombings are then linked to the Afghan Taliban and the Kashmiri groups. And if that doesn't fly the Americans and their allies inside the Pakistani government link the terrorists to low-level Pakistani sectarian groups in order to justify a military operation in areas of the Punjab province where pro-Kashmiri groups are based.
The net result of all this is to pressure Pakistan into stopping the promotion of its vital interests in Afghanistan and Indian-occupied Kashmir.
The list of Pakistani grievances against US activities in Afghanistan is long. Reports such as the one published by WashPost will not browbeat the Pakistanis and ISI into submission. They will only serve to make Pakistan more inhospitable for the US government than it is today.
Here is the point that Washington's overt and covert media managers are missing: These kinds of reports might help you win international sympathy, but inside Pakistan each report like this one increases hostility for the US presence. For the first time in Pakistan's modern history, disapproval of US actions and presence has seeped into the upper echelons of the Pakistani ruling elite. This has never happened before. In the period between 2004 and 2010, Washington has probably lost all of the goodwill it created in this nation since our indepenedence in 1947. The reason is that Pakistanis can see through the fog of propaganda and no amount of WashPost and WSJ reports portraying CIA as the aggrieved party will do.
To cut a long story short, US actions are so detrimental and hostile to Pakistani interests that their cumulative effect amounts to conducting a war against Pakistan in small parts and over an extended period of time.
So while reading the story, remember this:
1. The entire story complains about ISI but devotes only one innocent line to CIA's objectionable work inside Pakistan.
2. Pakistan is right in viewing CIA's activities in Pakistan with suspicion considering how CIA cooperated with the Indians inside Afghanistan in supporting terror inside Pakistan.
3. CIA started the dirty games by empowering anti-Pakistan elements in Afghanistan after 2001 despite Pakistan's sincere and full cooperation.
Postscript 1: Before some schmuck in the US media, or inside the US Embassy in Islamabad, accuses me of 'spreading anti-Americanism' [Yes it happened. One US diplomat even threatened me directly of 'reporting' me to president Musharraf when he was in power!] So before someone does that, let me just wish the good American people a happy 4th of July and tell them this: Don't believe your government and its propaganda machinery. We Pakistanis like the Americans. Ask all those ordinarly Americans -- non military and nonofficial -- who visited Pakistan recently and they will tell you about the legendary Pakistani hospitality. There is no anti-Americanism in Pakistan, only anti-US-meddling and anti-US doublespeak.
Postcript 2: American contradictions: A US think-tank with links to US government dubs Pakistan the world's most dangerous country and a failed state. At the same time a US newspaper publishes a mushy feel-good report on how US ambassador Anne Patterson is rushing through US cities to convince businessmen to invest in Pakistan. The irony is that while the Americans bomb Pakistan, they want their businessmen to invest here and not run away scared. Enough of this hypocrisy, Madam Patterson!
Posted at Ahmed Quraishi's The Lounge
Ahmed Quraishi 06 Jul 2010 A dirty program is underway in Afghanistan where poor elements within Pakistani religious groups are recruited to conduct senseless mass murders and bombings in Pakistani cities. Terror outposts in South Waziristan are used as conduits but the puppeteers hide inside outposts along the Afghan border.A Washington Post story today, titled, 'CIA and Pakistan locked in aggressive spy battles', accuses ISI of trying to penetrate CIA outposts inside Pakistan.
The thrust is that Pakistan and ISI are paranoid and that the poor CIA agents are doing nothing wrong and yet are being harassed [remember the US media stories last year about Pakistan 'harassing' US diplomats? Well, now we're harassing CIA agents!].
But there is, however, a self-serving half-sentence innocently buried in the 1,467-word report. This half-sentence is supposed to provide a reason for Pakistani suspicions.
That half-line says, 'The CIA has repeatedly tried to penetrate the ISI and learn more about Pakistan's nuclear program.'
That's all. The tone of the author of the report is that it is ok for the CIA to try to penetrate ISI and 'learn' about Pakistan's nuclear program but that it is wrong for the ISI to counter this unwarranted meddling and protect Pakistan's interests.
Rest of the report is a sap story about how the bad ISI is trying to spy on CIA.
This is not the first report of its kind published by the US media. There have been several stories like this during the past three years. They coincided with rising voices in Pakistan about CIA playing double games with Pakistan. In plain words, CIA has been deceiving Pakistan from the start of Washington's 2002 Afghan adventure, courting Pakistan while empowering anti-Pakistan forces in the region.
This attack against ISI is part of an effort to drown out Pakistani complaints. The United States has shown that it is adept at managing media and info wars. Pakistan is no match.
The truth is that ISI cooperated honestly with CIA after 9/11 but the Americans played a double game with Pakistan and turned the Afghan soil into 'Anti-Pakistan Central' and generally made life miserable for Pakistan and Pakistanis in their own neighborhood. And now when Washington's game is up the Americans are trying to atone for their sins through aid programs and generous public praise.
Nevertheless, dirty American games against Pakistan continue unabated. Terrorists claiming to represent Pakistani Baloch continue to find safe havens in Kabul and Kandahar, and money and weapons continue to flow from Afghanistan to terrorists who use them to kill Pakistanis by the dozens. There is also a dirty program underway in Afghanistan where poor elements within Pakistani religious groups are recruited to conduct senseless mass murders and bombings in Pakistani cities. Terror outposts in South Waziristan are used as conduits but the puppeteers hide inside outposts along the Afghan border. These bombings are then linked to the Afghan Taliban and the Kashmiri groups. And if that doesn't fly the Americans and their allies inside the Pakistani government link the terrorists to low-level Pakistani sectarian groups in order to justify a military operation in areas of the Punjab province where pro-Kashmiri groups are based.
The net result of all this is to pressure Pakistan into stopping the promotion of its vital interests in Afghanistan and Indian-occupied Kashmir.
The list of Pakistani grievances against US activities in Afghanistan is long. Reports such as the one published by WashPost will not browbeat the Pakistanis and ISI into submission. They will only serve to make Pakistan more inhospitable for the US government than it is today.
Here is the point that Washington's overt and covert media managers are missing: These kinds of reports might help you win international sympathy, but inside Pakistan each report like this one increases hostility for the US presence. For the first time in Pakistan's modern history, disapproval of US actions and presence has seeped into the upper echelons of the Pakistani ruling elite. This has never happened before. In the period between 2004 and 2010, Washington has probably lost all of the goodwill it created in this nation since our indepenedence in 1947. The reason is that Pakistanis can see through the fog of propaganda and no amount of WashPost and WSJ reports portraying CIA as the aggrieved party will do.
To cut a long story short, US actions are so detrimental and hostile to Pakistani interests that their cumulative effect amounts to conducting a war against Pakistan in small parts and over an extended period of time.
So while reading the story, remember this:
1. The entire story complains about ISI but devotes only one innocent line to CIA's objectionable work inside Pakistan.
2. Pakistan is right in viewing CIA's activities in Pakistan with suspicion considering how CIA cooperated with the Indians inside Afghanistan in supporting terror inside Pakistan.
3. CIA started the dirty games by empowering anti-Pakistan elements in Afghanistan after 2001 despite Pakistan's sincere and full cooperation.
Postscript 1: Before some schmuck in the US media, or inside the US Embassy in Islamabad, accuses me of 'spreading anti-Americanism' [Yes it happened. One US diplomat even threatened me directly of 'reporting' me to president Musharraf when he was in power!] So before someone does that, let me just wish the good American people a happy 4th of July and tell them this: Don't believe your government and its propaganda machinery. We Pakistanis like the Americans. Ask all those ordinarly Americans -- non military and nonofficial -- who visited Pakistan recently and they will tell you about the legendary Pakistani hospitality. There is no anti-Americanism in Pakistan, only anti-US-meddling and anti-US doublespeak.
Postcript 2: American contradictions: A US think-tank with links to US government dubs Pakistan the world's most dangerous country and a failed state. At the same time a US newspaper publishes a mushy feel-good report on how US ambassador Anne Patterson is rushing through US cities to convince businessmen to invest in Pakistan. The irony is that while the Americans bomb Pakistan, they want their businessmen to invest here and not run away scared. Enough of this hypocrisy, Madam Patterson!
Posted at Ahmed Quraishi's The Lounge
The US is the strongest military and economic power of the world but its behavior is amateurish and childish and doesn’t correspond to its stature, strength and capability. After 2nd World War, it never clashed directly with an adversary matching its capabilities but always attacked very weak foes. Like a typical bully, it prefers tiny David over giant Goliath and clobbers the former mercilessly but as luck would have it, USA didn’t even succeed against David.
After the North Korean fiasco in 1953-54, its physical strength was put to test in Vietnam where it got embroiled with small-height, impoverished and ill-equipped Vietcong under inspiring leadership of Ho-chi-Minh in North Vietnam who were no match to the well fed, tall and strongly built GIs backed up with massive sophisticated military and technological resources. They wanted to succeed where French had failed against Vietminh led by Gen Giap (1946-54). During its ten-year stay (1964-1974), the US military applied maximum force to annihilate the opponents. It dropped 7.8 million tons of bombs including napalms and mustard gas, sprayed 75 million litres of defoliants including Dioxin over fields, forests and villages causing 7 million casualties including 3 million dead. Despite wholesale massacre and destruction the Americans failed to break the will and resilience of Vietnamese to fight back. The resistance forces were covertly backed by USSR and China since the two considered it their moral duty to provide material assistance to the beleaguered neighbor believing in same ideology.
When the casualties of US soldiers began to mount and reached the figure of 58000 fatalities and home pressure intensified, adamant US leadership instead of winding up the war extended it to Cambodia under the warped logic that unless safe sanctuaries of Vietcong in neighboring Cambodia were neutralized, victory in Vietnam War was not possible. Additional troops were sought to expand the scope of war. When this experiment failed after massacring tens of thousands of Cambodians, USA had to finally eat a humble pie and order retreat in sheer disgust and disgrace.
Stewing in the juice of humiliation, the US got an opportunity to avenge its disgrace when Soviets forces barged into Afghanistan and Mujahideen backed up by Pakistan confronted them at their own. Instead of jumping into the fray and battling with Soviet forces in an even match, USA decided to resort to indirect strategy. It provoked and backed Mujahideen to directly take on Soviet troops and Afghan Army to liberate Afghanistan . It also lured Pakistan through $3.5 billion aid package to act as a frontline state and undertake a proxy war. Its forces stayed out of the Afghan war since USA had learnt a bitter lesson of direct confrontation in North Korea and North Vietnam .
Thanks to outstanding fight put up by rag tag Mujahideen and immense sacrifices rendered by them and Pakistan , Afghan war was decisively won and Soviet forces pushed out. When it came to collecting awards, the US stood alone on the victory stand and gathered all of them leaving the actual winners high and dry. The US having avenged its dishonor in Vietnam with the help of others declared itself a winner without losing a single soldier.
This grand success which drastically truncated USSR and reduced it into Commonwealth of Independent States, ended bi-polarism and made USA the sole super power. This unprecedented elevation went into the heads of arrogant US leaders and they started viewing America as the mightiest and invincible. They forgot that their military had played no role in the defeat and demise of Soviet Union . Drunk with power and megalomania, they wanted to punish the very forces that had elevated USA to prestigious position of unchallenged super power and had put their lives at stake. Afghanistan under Taliban was among the most impoverished countries of the world, devoid of armed forces and technological base.
Regardless of their handicaps, the Americans forgot that Afghanistan was the traditional graveyard of many mighty empires where it was easy to get in but far more difficult to get out. They wanted to succeed where none had succeeded. Soviet Union jumped into the inferno of Afghanistan because of paranoia of Islamic resurgence. It had the advantage of geographic contiguity and dedicated logistic tail. It had strong political roots in Afghanistan in the form of Khalq and Parcham parties, had a heavy presence of military advisers and had committed 150000 troops at the outset. Yet it failed in its mission and had to withdraw. US leaders were so buoyed up with the prospects of commercial gains from Central Asia that they completely overlooked US military handicaps. To hide their real motives they raised false slogans of freedom and democracy and demonized Taliban, with whom US UNOCOL was in secret contacts. They ignored over 1.5 million human losses of Mujahideen, mostly Afghans and the brilliant work done by ISI under Gen Akhtar Abdur Rahman and later under Gen Hameed Gul.
Without ISI’s fanatical commitment and its competence to undertake this gigantic covert operation that had no parallels and Allah’s support, the miracle was not possible. Throughout the operation, CIA was kept on the back seat and its role was confined to provisioning funds and weaponry or collection of volunteers from Muslim world. Training, equipping and launching of Mujahideen and dealing with seven aggressive Mujahideen groups in conflict with each other on one hand and bracing up to subversive activities of KGB, KHAD, RAW together with overbearing attitude of Moscow and Tehran’s disquiet was an uphill task for ISI and Pakistani leadership. Pakistan had to put up with frequent bomb blasts, hijacking, target killings, ground and air border violations.
Pakistan also had to bear with domestic opposition led by PPP and ANP opposed to Afghan Jihad and Gen Ziaul Haq’s policies and rise of sectarianism. To defy the threats of next door super power fuming with anger was no easy job and that too when Pakistan was confronted with twin threat from east and west and India ’s heightened belligerency. India ’s military exercise Brass-tacks in 1986 had taken place in that critical period. At that time Pakistan had not attained viable weapon grade nuclear capability with requisite delivery means but had kept India scared under policy of ambiguity. Moscow had hurled series of threats cautioning Pakistan to stop meddling and to dismantle training camps or be prepared for dire consequences. Despite grave internal and external challenges, at no stage Gen Zia buckled or resorted to appeasement or compromised national interests or prestige and honor of the country.
One can note the stark difference of attitudes of the then leadership with present day leadership. The elected democratic leaders claiming to enjoy support of the majority lay prostrate before the US and Indian leaders and accept their taunts, insults and kicks smilingly. Americans and Indians after pasting false charges of abetting terrorism are threatening to invade. What to talk of seeing them in eyes and disregarding their illegal demands, accusations and threats, they don’t even pick up courage to mumble a word of protest when Pakistan is in flames at both ends and has put everything at stake. Yet they have the temerity to declare Gen Zia’s era as black and illegal. They can pass laws while in power but cannot wash away facts of history.
Pakistan could have played a double game to milk both the super powers and keep them appeased, but it played a straight game and put all its eggs in the basket of USA . Having tested the tenacity, resilience and professional abilities of Pakistani people and premier institutions for a decade under trying conditions, there was no earthly reason for USA not to place its full faith in Pakistan and to make it a life-long strategic partner. In reality, reverse happened. The US ditched Pakistan in 1990, developed acute apprehensions and distrust and undertook highly discriminatory acts to penalize Pakistan . Pakistan ’s nuclear program was the overriding factor for such an attitude. The US had ignored the ongoing program at Kahuta throughout 1980s and US President had rendered certificates each year from 1985 onwards that Pakistan was not pursuing nuclear program. Besides Nuclear program, ISI also became an eyesore for USA since it had seen its outstanding capability and had emerged as the most potent intelligence organization within the third world. CIA developed envy for ISI and vied to cut it to size.
No sooner the US downed its chief rival with the help of Pakistan ; it started penalizing its ally. To add insult to injury, the US befriended Pakistan ’s chief adversary India which had remained in the Soviet camp from 1947 onwards. The US went out of the way to bolster strategic ties with India . At the behest of India , Washington started hounding and persecuting Pakistan through Pressler Amendment and propaganda war to enfeeble its economy and spoil its image. ISI was purged of diehard officers committed to Afghan and Kashmir jihad during the two tenures of Benazir Bhutto at US behest. The US didn’t sever linkage with Islamabad since it saw Pakistan as a possible bridge for its future exploits in Afghanistan and Central Asia.
It was owing to US discriminatory policies that democratic era in Pakistan in 1990s failed to deliver and opened doors for military intervention in October 1999. After a brief spell of coldness, George W. Bush US befriended Gen Musharraf and made him a blue-eyed boy. This transition in outlook happened when Musharraf readily agreed to serve US interests in Afghanistan blindly. Besides extending several facilities to USA , the ISI was purged for the third time. This time the axe fell on officers with a religious bent of mind. Even employees working in nuclear facilities were not spared. While US leaders kept hugging secular Musharraf affectionately, lava of aversion kept simmering in their minds and hearts against Islamic Republic of Pakistan and its people. Governed by this mindset, Indo-US-Israeli team worked upon a gory plan to destabilize, denuclearize and fragment Pakistan through covert means. All the members of the team excelling in this game put their heart and soul to make the plan a roaring success. FATA and Balochistan, both bordering Afghanistan were picked up as hunting grounds to establish a foothold in Pakistan.
While drumming up threat of terrorism, CIA and FBI started playing a double game by outwardly trying to control terrorism in two fertile grounds but inwardly making peaceful areas restive. After collecting information from Pakistani agencies, instead of working jointly, the US agencies cleverly sidelined them and assumed total control of intelligence acquisition from 2003 onwards. So much so that army units operating in Waziristan were made dependent upon their inputs. No raid could be conducted without clearance from CIA heavy US command centres established in Peshawar , Kohat, Miranshah and Wana. Over 500 pro-government Maliks and clerics were assassinated in FATA by CIA agents, Blackwater and extremists on their payroll, which paved the way for establishment of Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) and loss of power of anti-Taliban elements in FATA. Idea behind creating TTP was to form a force formidable enough to confront and defeat the Army in guerrilla war. It was trained, equipped, funded and guided to ensure its success since it was evaluated that without destroying the Army none of the objectives conceived could be achieved.
Pakistani troops were pushed into South Waziristan (SW) in late 2002 without training in guerrilla war, acclimatization, motivation and counterterrorism equipment. Peace deals were promptly disrupted through drone attacks, which also hit anti-US and pro-government elements. Peace jirgas were targeted by suicide bombers. Flames of war were gradually spread from FATA to settled areas of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and then to major cities. Western print and electronic media and think tanks duly fed by Indian writers were activated to spread gloom and doom; so were pro-western elements in Pakistan . English newspapers like Daily Times and to an extent Dawn together with several TV channels performed the allotted job loyally to smear Pakistan and its institutions.
All these immoral activities financed through illegal drug trade delighted the master planners. In their excitement to floor Pakistan and then extract its nuclear teeth they lost sight of their primary objective of disrupting, dismantling and defeating Al-Qaeda for which they had sauntered into Afghanistan . Taking advantage of their loss of direction, Al-Qaeda and Taliban kept regaining ground. By the time the US woke up from its stupor, nearly 80% territory had slipped from under its feet. All their gains had been gifted away due to imprudence, myopia and over confidence. Americans had over estimated own strength and under estimated deftness and guts of Afghan fighters and repeated the mistakes committed by Soviets. The Taliban gained complete sway in southern and eastern Afghanistan and acquired the strength to venture into all parts of the country including Kabul . As if this setback was not enough, the conspirators received another shock when Pak army broke the back of Fazlullah led militants in Malakand Division and Swat and Hakimullah Mehsud led TTP in SW in 2009.
Like Pak Army has pushed the militants in FATA and Swat on the back foot, Afghan Taliban have also achieved moral ascendancy over occupation forces since they have succeeded in defeating their minds. Coalition forces have lost the will to fight and are eager to return home. However, unabated turbulence in Afghanistan and Pakistan suits India and Israel . Hence their desperate efforts to stave-off negotiated political settlement. Both are keen to convert Afghanistan into an Indian satellite and to consolidate Israeli presence for future joint covert operations against Central Asian States and Pakistan . Continuation of war on terror helps in bleeding Pakistan and weakening it from within and keeping its attention away from Kashmir . They also seek to break the will of Pakistan to resist Indian hegemony in the region. News of over one trillion dollars mineral resources in Afghanistan has watered the mouths of occupation forces and given them second thoughts.
Machinations and intrigues of adversaries of Pakistan are however getting drowned in the fast flowing stream of events which are not going in their favor. Afghan situation is in a fluid state and USA having lost on all counts, doesn’t know how to crystallize it. Israeli blockade of Gaza strip and piracy against peace flotilla in May has for the first time evoked worldwide condemnation and it is fast getting isolated. India is getting exposed in occupied Kashmir due to ongoing protests by unarmed Kashmiris seeking freedom and ruthless action by Indian security forces who had been claiming that insurgency had been quashed. At home Maoist movement has become grave for India since Maoists are trying to bring all anti-imperialist struggles in India on one platform. Instead of hoping to accomplish objectives set against Pakistan , the conspirators have got worried about safety of their own homes.
After the North Korean fiasco in 1953-54, its physical strength was put to test in Vietnam where it got embroiled with small-height, impoverished and ill-equipped Vietcong under inspiring leadership of Ho-chi-Minh in North Vietnam who were no match to the well fed, tall and strongly built GIs backed up with massive sophisticated military and technological resources. They wanted to succeed where French had failed against Vietminh led by Gen Giap (1946-54). During its ten-year stay (1964-1974), the US military applied maximum force to annihilate the opponents. It dropped 7.8 million tons of bombs including napalms and mustard gas, sprayed 75 million litres of defoliants including Dioxin over fields, forests and villages causing 7 million casualties including 3 million dead. Despite wholesale massacre and destruction the Americans failed to break the will and resilience of Vietnamese to fight back. The resistance forces were covertly backed by USSR and China since the two considered it their moral duty to provide material assistance to the beleaguered neighbor believing in same ideology.
When the casualties of US soldiers began to mount and reached the figure of 58000 fatalities and home pressure intensified, adamant US leadership instead of winding up the war extended it to Cambodia under the warped logic that unless safe sanctuaries of Vietcong in neighboring Cambodia were neutralized, victory in Vietnam War was not possible. Additional troops were sought to expand the scope of war. When this experiment failed after massacring tens of thousands of Cambodians, USA had to finally eat a humble pie and order retreat in sheer disgust and disgrace.
Stewing in the juice of humiliation, the US got an opportunity to avenge its disgrace when Soviets forces barged into Afghanistan and Mujahideen backed up by Pakistan confronted them at their own. Instead of jumping into the fray and battling with Soviet forces in an even match, USA decided to resort to indirect strategy. It provoked and backed Mujahideen to directly take on Soviet troops and Afghan Army to liberate Afghanistan . It also lured Pakistan through $3.5 billion aid package to act as a frontline state and undertake a proxy war. Its forces stayed out of the Afghan war since USA had learnt a bitter lesson of direct confrontation in North Korea and North Vietnam .
Thanks to outstanding fight put up by rag tag Mujahideen and immense sacrifices rendered by them and Pakistan , Afghan war was decisively won and Soviet forces pushed out. When it came to collecting awards, the US stood alone on the victory stand and gathered all of them leaving the actual winners high and dry. The US having avenged its dishonor in Vietnam with the help of others declared itself a winner without losing a single soldier.
This grand success which drastically truncated USSR and reduced it into Commonwealth of Independent States, ended bi-polarism and made USA the sole super power. This unprecedented elevation went into the heads of arrogant US leaders and they started viewing America as the mightiest and invincible. They forgot that their military had played no role in the defeat and demise of Soviet Union . Drunk with power and megalomania, they wanted to punish the very forces that had elevated USA to prestigious position of unchallenged super power and had put their lives at stake. Afghanistan under Taliban was among the most impoverished countries of the world, devoid of armed forces and technological base.
Regardless of their handicaps, the Americans forgot that Afghanistan was the traditional graveyard of many mighty empires where it was easy to get in but far more difficult to get out. They wanted to succeed where none had succeeded. Soviet Union jumped into the inferno of Afghanistan because of paranoia of Islamic resurgence. It had the advantage of geographic contiguity and dedicated logistic tail. It had strong political roots in Afghanistan in the form of Khalq and Parcham parties, had a heavy presence of military advisers and had committed 150000 troops at the outset. Yet it failed in its mission and had to withdraw. US leaders were so buoyed up with the prospects of commercial gains from Central Asia that they completely overlooked US military handicaps. To hide their real motives they raised false slogans of freedom and democracy and demonized Taliban, with whom US UNOCOL was in secret contacts. They ignored over 1.5 million human losses of Mujahideen, mostly Afghans and the brilliant work done by ISI under Gen Akhtar Abdur Rahman and later under Gen Hameed Gul.
Without ISI’s fanatical commitment and its competence to undertake this gigantic covert operation that had no parallels and Allah’s support, the miracle was not possible. Throughout the operation, CIA was kept on the back seat and its role was confined to provisioning funds and weaponry or collection of volunteers from Muslim world. Training, equipping and launching of Mujahideen and dealing with seven aggressive Mujahideen groups in conflict with each other on one hand and bracing up to subversive activities of KGB, KHAD, RAW together with overbearing attitude of Moscow and Tehran’s disquiet was an uphill task for ISI and Pakistani leadership. Pakistan had to put up with frequent bomb blasts, hijacking, target killings, ground and air border violations.
Pakistan also had to bear with domestic opposition led by PPP and ANP opposed to Afghan Jihad and Gen Ziaul Haq’s policies and rise of sectarianism. To defy the threats of next door super power fuming with anger was no easy job and that too when Pakistan was confronted with twin threat from east and west and India ’s heightened belligerency. India ’s military exercise Brass-tacks in 1986 had taken place in that critical period. At that time Pakistan had not attained viable weapon grade nuclear capability with requisite delivery means but had kept India scared under policy of ambiguity. Moscow had hurled series of threats cautioning Pakistan to stop meddling and to dismantle training camps or be prepared for dire consequences. Despite grave internal and external challenges, at no stage Gen Zia buckled or resorted to appeasement or compromised national interests or prestige and honor of the country.
One can note the stark difference of attitudes of the then leadership with present day leadership. The elected democratic leaders claiming to enjoy support of the majority lay prostrate before the US and Indian leaders and accept their taunts, insults and kicks smilingly. Americans and Indians after pasting false charges of abetting terrorism are threatening to invade. What to talk of seeing them in eyes and disregarding their illegal demands, accusations and threats, they don’t even pick up courage to mumble a word of protest when Pakistan is in flames at both ends and has put everything at stake. Yet they have the temerity to declare Gen Zia’s era as black and illegal. They can pass laws while in power but cannot wash away facts of history.
Pakistan could have played a double game to milk both the super powers and keep them appeased, but it played a straight game and put all its eggs in the basket of USA . Having tested the tenacity, resilience and professional abilities of Pakistani people and premier institutions for a decade under trying conditions, there was no earthly reason for USA not to place its full faith in Pakistan and to make it a life-long strategic partner. In reality, reverse happened. The US ditched Pakistan in 1990, developed acute apprehensions and distrust and undertook highly discriminatory acts to penalize Pakistan . Pakistan ’s nuclear program was the overriding factor for such an attitude. The US had ignored the ongoing program at Kahuta throughout 1980s and US President had rendered certificates each year from 1985 onwards that Pakistan was not pursuing nuclear program. Besides Nuclear program, ISI also became an eyesore for USA since it had seen its outstanding capability and had emerged as the most potent intelligence organization within the third world. CIA developed envy for ISI and vied to cut it to size.
No sooner the US downed its chief rival with the help of Pakistan ; it started penalizing its ally. To add insult to injury, the US befriended Pakistan ’s chief adversary India which had remained in the Soviet camp from 1947 onwards. The US went out of the way to bolster strategic ties with India . At the behest of India , Washington started hounding and persecuting Pakistan through Pressler Amendment and propaganda war to enfeeble its economy and spoil its image. ISI was purged of diehard officers committed to Afghan and Kashmir jihad during the two tenures of Benazir Bhutto at US behest. The US didn’t sever linkage with Islamabad since it saw Pakistan as a possible bridge for its future exploits in Afghanistan and Central Asia.
It was owing to US discriminatory policies that democratic era in Pakistan in 1990s failed to deliver and opened doors for military intervention in October 1999. After a brief spell of coldness, George W. Bush US befriended Gen Musharraf and made him a blue-eyed boy. This transition in outlook happened when Musharraf readily agreed to serve US interests in Afghanistan blindly. Besides extending several facilities to USA , the ISI was purged for the third time. This time the axe fell on officers with a religious bent of mind. Even employees working in nuclear facilities were not spared. While US leaders kept hugging secular Musharraf affectionately, lava of aversion kept simmering in their minds and hearts against Islamic Republic of Pakistan and its people. Governed by this mindset, Indo-US-Israeli team worked upon a gory plan to destabilize, denuclearize and fragment Pakistan through covert means. All the members of the team excelling in this game put their heart and soul to make the plan a roaring success. FATA and Balochistan, both bordering Afghanistan were picked up as hunting grounds to establish a foothold in Pakistan.
While drumming up threat of terrorism, CIA and FBI started playing a double game by outwardly trying to control terrorism in two fertile grounds but inwardly making peaceful areas restive. After collecting information from Pakistani agencies, instead of working jointly, the US agencies cleverly sidelined them and assumed total control of intelligence acquisition from 2003 onwards. So much so that army units operating in Waziristan were made dependent upon their inputs. No raid could be conducted without clearance from CIA heavy US command centres established in Peshawar , Kohat, Miranshah and Wana. Over 500 pro-government Maliks and clerics were assassinated in FATA by CIA agents, Blackwater and extremists on their payroll, which paved the way for establishment of Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP) and loss of power of anti-Taliban elements in FATA. Idea behind creating TTP was to form a force formidable enough to confront and defeat the Army in guerrilla war. It was trained, equipped, funded and guided to ensure its success since it was evaluated that without destroying the Army none of the objectives conceived could be achieved.
Pakistani troops were pushed into South Waziristan (SW) in late 2002 without training in guerrilla war, acclimatization, motivation and counterterrorism equipment. Peace deals were promptly disrupted through drone attacks, which also hit anti-US and pro-government elements. Peace jirgas were targeted by suicide bombers. Flames of war were gradually spread from FATA to settled areas of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa and then to major cities. Western print and electronic media and think tanks duly fed by Indian writers were activated to spread gloom and doom; so were pro-western elements in Pakistan . English newspapers like Daily Times and to an extent Dawn together with several TV channels performed the allotted job loyally to smear Pakistan and its institutions.
All these immoral activities financed through illegal drug trade delighted the master planners. In their excitement to floor Pakistan and then extract its nuclear teeth they lost sight of their primary objective of disrupting, dismantling and defeating Al-Qaeda for which they had sauntered into Afghanistan . Taking advantage of their loss of direction, Al-Qaeda and Taliban kept regaining ground. By the time the US woke up from its stupor, nearly 80% territory had slipped from under its feet. All their gains had been gifted away due to imprudence, myopia and over confidence. Americans had over estimated own strength and under estimated deftness and guts of Afghan fighters and repeated the mistakes committed by Soviets. The Taliban gained complete sway in southern and eastern Afghanistan and acquired the strength to venture into all parts of the country including Kabul . As if this setback was not enough, the conspirators received another shock when Pak army broke the back of Fazlullah led militants in Malakand Division and Swat and Hakimullah Mehsud led TTP in SW in 2009.
Like Pak Army has pushed the militants in FATA and Swat on the back foot, Afghan Taliban have also achieved moral ascendancy over occupation forces since they have succeeded in defeating their minds. Coalition forces have lost the will to fight and are eager to return home. However, unabated turbulence in Afghanistan and Pakistan suits India and Israel . Hence their desperate efforts to stave-off negotiated political settlement. Both are keen to convert Afghanistan into an Indian satellite and to consolidate Israeli presence for future joint covert operations against Central Asian States and Pakistan . Continuation of war on terror helps in bleeding Pakistan and weakening it from within and keeping its attention away from Kashmir . They also seek to break the will of Pakistan to resist Indian hegemony in the region. News of over one trillion dollars mineral resources in Afghanistan has watered the mouths of occupation forces and given them second thoughts.
Machinations and intrigues of adversaries of Pakistan are however getting drowned in the fast flowing stream of events which are not going in their favor. Afghan situation is in a fluid state and USA having lost on all counts, doesn’t know how to crystallize it. Israeli blockade of Gaza strip and piracy against peace flotilla in May has for the first time evoked worldwide condemnation and it is fast getting isolated. India is getting exposed in occupied Kashmir due to ongoing protests by unarmed Kashmiris seeking freedom and ruthless action by Indian security forces who had been claiming that insurgency had been quashed. At home Maoist movement has become grave for India since Maoists are trying to bring all anti-imperialist struggles in India on one platform. Instead of hoping to accomplish objectives set against Pakistan , the conspirators have got worried about safety of their own homes.
Vikram_India
Citizen
ISI is full of hate filled ideology and foolish thinking of 1971 bangladesh war veterans who think strategic depth in Afghanistan and attacking India by proxy is in Pakistan's interest.
You can't find a more foolish theory of self destruction which has undermined pakistan's economic growth and security.
You can't find a more foolish theory of self destruction which has undermined pakistan's economic growth and security.
gazoomartian
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Same for you Vikram just like Zionist Hindu, gotta give you equal treatment ya know. Cant discriminate:
By the way, so glad you came by. My ignore bin has been complaining that I have not put any Indian lately in it.
As a good neighborly gesture, I always pour a bottle o Cow Pee Cola to quench your thirst. Now tell me, would you like regular or diet CPC?? (bigsmile)
Vikram_India
Citizen
I am not like you to make silly comments and live in canada while pretending to belong to Pakistan. How's the dual identity treating you dude ? Don't go blow yourself up over there just coz you got issues of fitting in ok ? :)
