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[There is only 1]

محرم کے دنوں میں عمر کی موت کا ذکر کرنا بذات خود مذہبی منافرت ہے کیونکہ عمر کی موت محرم سے پہلے ہو گئی تھی
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کبھی ناصبیوں نے ابوبکر کی موت یا عثمان کی ہلاکت پر تھریڈ بنایا؟ اکثر کو یاد ہی نہیں ہو گا کہ کب ان کی اموات ہوئیں . لیکن عمر کی موت کا ان کو بہت صدمہ ہے کہ اسے کھینچ تان کر محرم میں لے جایا گیا ہے
. . .

. .
تو پھر ردعمل تو آئے گا
​

 

[desan]

This is exactly what the Zionist Israelis do, shut down every discussion and criticism of Israel and its occupation by labeling it antisemitic.

To the contrary, it is our enemies who want Ethnic and Sectarian strife...

It was partly the agenda of Kulbhoshan.

These heated and hateful discussions will end up raising the temperature and fissures within the society which can be easily exploited by our enemies.

 

[Pakistani1947]

To the contrary, it is our enemies who want Ethnic and Sectarian strife...

It was partly the agenda of Kulbhoshan.

These heated and hateful discussions will end up raising the temperature and fissures within the society which can be easily exploited by our enemies.

After having long debates with some cultis I found that they seemed to be from other planet. Since you can not change their aqaid. It is better to leave them alone. It is up to Allah to give them Hidayah. It is worth spending time on a atheist or non-Muslim as at least they are logical. Whereas these cultis do not even accept arguments supported by Qur'an. You present a verse of Qur'an in support of your argument, and they would just twist it to some weird meaning .

Here, I would like to quote one of the comments on this forum by another member, Rambler , which has been deleted:

میں سوچنا شروع کر رہا ہوں کہ صورت حال اس سے کہیں زیادہ خراب ہے، جتنی نظر آ رہی ہے ۔اس فورم میں ممبرز اس طرح کے کمنٹس دیکھ کر یہ اندازہ لگایا جاسکتا ہے کوئی ایک منظم مشینری ہے جو مسلمانوں کے مابین ناقابل تسخیر اختلاف پیدا کرنے میں لگی ہوئی ہے جس کی کارستانیوں کے باعث، جلیل القدر صحابی رسول ﷺ کو اسلام دشمن،أستغفر الله، سمجھا جاتا ہے اور انہیں نماز کی امامت کے دوران شہید کرنے والر معلون قاتل کا کچھ لوگ مزار بنا کر، اپنی دانست میں، تکریم کر رہے ہیں۔ اس رجحان کو نسل در نسل علامتی اظہار اور نفرتوں کے زریعے اس طریقے سے گھول کر پلا دیا گیا ہے کہ باطل نظریات اس قدر مستحکم ہو چکے ہیں کہ اب سمجھوتے کی کوئی صورت نظر نہیں آتی- ۔یہ ایک انتہائی تشویش ناک اور خطرناک صورتحال ہے​

 

[desan]

After having long debates with some cultis I found that they seemed to be from other planet. Since you can not change their aqaid. It is better to leave them alone. It is up to Allah to give them Hidayah. It is worth spending time on a atheist or non-Muslim as at least they are logical. Whereas these cultis do not even accept arguments supported by Qur'an. You present a verse of Qur'an in support of your argument, and they would just twist it to some weird meaning .

Here, I would like to quote one of the comments on this forum by another member, Rambler , which has been deleted:

میں سوچنا شروع کر رہا ہوں کہ صورت حال اس سے کہیں زیادہ خراب ہے، جتنی نظر آ رہی ہے ۔اس فورم میں ممبرز اس طرح کے کمنٹس دیکھ کر یہ اندازہ لگایا جاسکتا ہے کوئی ایک منظم مشینری ہے جو مسلمانوں کے مابین ناقابل تسخیر اختلاف پیدا کرنے میں لگی ہوئی ہے جس کی کارستانیوں کے باعث، جلیل القدر صحابی رسول ﷺ کو اسلام دشمن،أستغفر الله، سمجھا جاتا ہے اور انہیں نماز کی امامت کے دوران شہید کرنے والر معلون قاتل کا کچھ لوگ مزار بنا کر، اپنی دانست میں، تکریم کر رہے ہیں۔ اس رجحان کو نسل در نسل علامتی اظہار اور نفرتوں کے زریعے اس طریقے سے گھول کر پلا دیا گیا ہے کہ باطل نظریات اس قدر مستحکم ہو چکے ہیں کہ اب سمجھوتے کی کوئی صورت نظر نہیں آتی- ۔یہ ایک انتہائی تشویش ناک اور خطرناک صورتحال ہے​

We are already living in an intolerant society...

These kinds of debates generate more animosity than understanding.

It is high time to adopt the policy of live & let live, and advance peace and harmony.

 

[Citizen X]

To the contrary, it is our enemies who want Ethnic and Sectarian strife...

It was partly the agenda of Kulbhoshan.

These heated and hateful discussions will end up raising the temperature and fissures within the society which can be easily exploited by our enemies.

Au contraire mon ami, venting helps keeps the overall pressure down, and prevents explosions, there is even a word for it. Catharsis, look it up.

When was the last time sweeping something under the carpet or burying your head in the sand pretending there were no issues worked?

Maybe next you will say that we shouldn't talk about party politics either because it also "creates heated and hateful discussions that end up raising the temperature" tell you what lets just all delete our accounts and sit on our hands because lord knows we don't want to upset anyone over anything, eight?

And you're right it is our enemies who are creating their proxies and lobbies loyal to them which then can and have been used to influence govt policy and create unrest at their behest. If we expose them and make people aware such exist they lose their influence and power.

But of course lets not rock the boat and upset anyone and maintain the status quo, because last 40 years of keeping the status quo has brought such progress and prosperity to the country, so lets just keep doing that, eh?

Just look at how they come rushing in like a rabid mob at the mere mention of any criticism of Iran! Seriously makes you wonder where their loyalties lie? The Saudi wahabi proxy is not so rabid, yet.

 

[Citizen X]

We are already living in an intolerant society...

These kinds of debates generate more animosity than understanding.

It is high time to adopt the policy of live & let live, and advance peace and harmony.

I then better not see any anti PMLN or PPP threads or posts from you or even pro IK or PTI. Because intolerant society, animosity and all that jazz.

Because we all want to sit around the camp fire singing kumbaya

 

[desan]

I then better not see any anti PMLN or PPP threads or posts from you or even pro IK or PTI. Because intolerant society, animosity and all that jazz.

Because we all want to sit around the camp fire singing kumbaya

Comparing apples with oranges here...

Don't think this back and forth will go anywhere.

Ciao...

 

[desan]

Au contraire mon ami, venting helps keeps the overall pressure down, and prevents explosions, there is even a word for it. Catharsis, look it up.

When was the last time sweeping something under the carpet or burying your head in the sand pretending there were no issues worked?

Maybe next you will say that we shouldn't talk about party politics either because it also "creates heated and hateful discussions that end up raising the temperature" tell you what lets just all delete our accounts and sit on our hands because lord knows we don't want to upset anyone over anything, eight?

And you're right it is our enemies who are creating their proxies and lobbies loyal to them which then can and have been used to influence govt policy and create unrest at their behest. If we expose them and make people aware such exist they lose their influence and power.

But of course lets not rock the boat and upset anyone and maintain the status quo, because last 40 years of keeping the status quo has brought such progress and prosperity to the country, so lets just keep doing that, eh?

Just look at how they come rushing in like a rabid mob at the mere mention of any criticism of Iran! Seriously makes you wonder where their loyalties lie? The Saudi wahabi proxy is not so rabid, yet.

There is no comparison between politics with religion, especially in this country.

We have corrupt dynastic parties which have taken over this country.

It is our Civic Duty to support honest and sincere leadership for the betterment of this country.

We are not married to PTI.
Will be the first one to criticize IK if he tried to betray our Trust.

 

[Citizen X]

There is no comparison between politics with religion, especially in this country.

You know what they say when meeting someone new or in a polite gathering, do not discuss politics or religion. There is absolutely a very valid comparison, especially in this country.

 

[Citizen X]

Comparing apples with oranges here...

Don't think this back and forth will go anywhere.

Ciao...

 

[desan]

You know what they say when meeting someone new or in a polite gathering, do not discuss politics or religion. There is absolutely a very valid comparison, especially in this country.

That's what about to say.

However, this adage is more apt to the developed countries where they have established democracies.

However, our country has been taken as a hostage by the corrupt, anit-state Mafias.
It is the duty of every citizen to take cognizant of that and to work against these leeches.

 

[Citizen X]

That's what about to say.

However, this adage is more apt to the developed countries where they have established democracies.

However, our country has been taken as a hostage by the corrupt, anit-state Mafias.
It is the duty of every citizen to take cognizant of that and to work against these leeches.

It is also the duty of every Muslim "to take cognizant of" the insult and mockery of our religion that is made daily "and to work against these leeches" at the very least speak out against it and make others aware of this.

 

[Rambler]

​

Am trying to understand this - Do your Mullahs encourage you to curse personalities such as Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA) and Hazrat Umer (RA) whom Muslims hold in very high esteem ?

 

[Rambler]

To the contrary, it is our enemies who want Ethnic and Sectarian strife...

It was partly the agenda of Kulbhoshan.

These heated and hateful discussions will end up raising the temperature and fissures within the society which can be easily exploited by our enemies.

Yes, you are right but enemy does this by exploiting the fault lines like poverty in Baluchistan and shia/sunni split. You cannot stave such attacks by denying the existence of such rifts. As a society you have to identify the problem and then take measures to resolve issues which are brewing under the surface. Just not talking about it would do nothing. In this modern day how many 'Muslims' even perform obligatory duties as a Muslim and show character which should be developed by doing these ibadaat. This Shia Sunni thing would have just dissolved had the others not put their fingers in the pie and fuelled it up to new extremes. Now this ideology is perfect to be used for any demonic purpose. At the moment it is still hidden under the garb of 'taqqia' which sometines gets unveiled on internet forums like this. Imagine a creed which is solely based on lamentation and cursing, imagine someone whose sole purpose in life is to curse at your parents (and muslims are pained more if someone curses Hazrat Umer and Hazrat Abu bakr than their own parents). How do you ensure peace and stability under such a situation?


Ok let’s look at the political angle. You must know that Iraq is almost like an Iraninan colony (the reason Americans killed that iranian general). Iran is a country with an extraordinary civilisation and once a great empire. Even the Mullah leadership of Iran does not stop talking about its glorious past. It sees itself as the leader of Muslim world both politically and intellectually. Now this results in ugly meddling in Afghanistan and Pakistan directly (Kulbushan was based in Iran) and elsewhere indirectly. In order to increase their influence and have leverage what is it that they have to do. Its not hard to answer so I will leave it to your imagination.

 

[There is only 1]

Am trying to understand this - Do your Mullahs encourage you to curse personalities such as Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA) and Hazrat Umer (RA) whom Muslims hold in very high esteem ?

No, they forbade us to curse anyone specifically.
But they ask us to curse zalameen in general e.g
Curse those who refused to obey Prophet PBUH.
Curse those who troubled Ahle Baite.
Curse those who did not attend Prophet's funeral.
Curse those who ran away from ghazwat.
etc
You see, Allah clearly orders us to curse the zalameen, and curse the bad leaders. Ask me and I will show you the aayas.

 

[Rambler]

No, they forbade us to curse anyone specifically.
But they ask us to curse zalameen in general e.g
Curse those who refused to obey Prophet PBUH.
Curse those who troubled Ahle Baite.
Curse those who did not attend Prophet's funeral.
Curse those who ran away from ghazwat.
etc
You see, Allah clearly orders us to curse the zalameen, and curse the bad leaders.

Hmmmm very astute. So they are keeping the soil fertile without disturbing the landscape. Persians are very clever people, I really admire them. This phenomenon interests me as it show how humans can carry on with goals and objectives over the generations. It is quite fascinating, especially the fact that they were even able to indoctrinate non-persians and somehow managed to earn their allegiance. What makes it more beguiling is that this has been done against the backdrop of great intellectuals who were themeselves of persian origin. I think symbols, traditions and stories have more of a lasting effect on the psyche of general public than the weight of the pen of mighty scholars. Thank you brother and I will be asking you more questions.

 

[There is only 1]

Hmmmm very astute. So they are keeping the soil fertile without disturbing the landscape. Persians are very clever people, I really admire them. This phenomenon interests me as it show how humans can carry on with goals and objectives over the generations. It is quite fascinating, especially the fact that they were even able to indoctrinate non-persians and somehow managed to earn their allegiance. What makes it more beguiling is that this has been done against the backdrop of great intellectuals who were themeselves of persian origin. I think symbols, traditions and stories have more of a lasting effect on the psyche of general public than the weight of the pen of mighty scholars. Thank you brother and I will be asking you more questions.

You are welcome!!!
All of your comment contains difficult words and I had to google to learn the meaning BUT still, I am unable to understand what do Persions have to do here?

 

[Citizen X]

Hmmmm very astute. So they are keeping the soil fertile without disturbing the landscape. Persians are very clever people, I really admire them. This phenomenon interests me as it show how humans can carry on with goals and objectives over the generations. It is quite fascinating, especially the fact that they were even able to indoctrinate non-persians and somehow managed to earn their allegiance. What makes it more beguiling is that this has been done against the backdrop of great intellectuals who were themeselves of persian origin. I think symbols, traditions and stories have more of a lasting effect on the psyche of general public than the weight of the pen of mighty scholars. Thank you brother and I will be asking you more questions.

But remember this "zalameen" refers to everyone including the Prophet's s.a.w family, like his wife Ayesha because it is their belief everyone save for 3 became apostates after the prophet passed away.

 

[Rambler]

You are welcome!!!
All of your comment contains difficult words and I had to google to learn the meaning BUT still, I am unable to understand what do Persions have to do here?

You don't have to understand anything - Common people like you and me are just fodder in great games. Your job for now is to curse, lament and keep the idelogy alive for future generations.

 

[Rambler]

But remember this "zalameen" refers to everyone including the Prophet's s.a.w family, like his wife Ayesha because it is their belief everyone save for 3 became apostates after the prophet passed away.

I think its irreleavt to go into details which are painfull for common muslims. Its better to look at it in a hollistic way and deal with it in abstraction.