Evolution may be just a theory, but we are definitely Devolving...Funny, but true.

[cestmoi ✅️]

its a v wrong idea in my opinion...
all the prophets were sent to state one fact which is that there is a Creator..Indeed there is other stuff but thats secondary

In this case the guy had no time to actually select a true religion be that Islam or Christianity or any other..he had a short time and he converted..in my opinion that is enough to be pardoned

We are no one to tell who enter paradise and who go to hell..who knows even an athiest may enter paradise if he/she can present their case convincingly..

Yes thats why there is a day of judgement. Allah will judge people and decide. Someone who never got message of Islam or heard of a prophet will not automatically go to hell. Quran/Hadith is very clear on this. Allah will test him/her right there n then.

 

[knowledge88]

its a v wrong idea in my opinion...
all the prophets were sent to state one fact which is that there is a Creator..Indeed there is other stuff but thats secondary

In this case the guy had no time to actually select a true religion be that Islam or Christianity or any other..he had a short time and he converted..in my opinion that is enough to be pardoned

We are no one to tell who enter paradise and who go to hell..who knows even an athiest may enter paradise if he/she can present their case convincingly..

My friend your Islamic knowledge is very limited.
In sura Asr. Allah has clearly mentioned who will go to heaven. A non Muslims will NOT enter Heaven according to this sura.
Don't believe me ?
Watch this video.

 

[knowledge88]

Yes thats why there is a day of judgement. Allah will judge people and decide. Someone who never got message of Islam or heard of a prophet will not automatically go to hell. Quran/Hadith is very clear on this. Allah will test him/her right there n then.

see my video of Dr Zakir Naik. According to Quran, Sura Asr, a non Muslim will NOT enter Heaven (Doesn't matter how good his character was)

 

[Prince of Dhump]

My friend you Islamic knowledge is very limited.
In sura Asr. Allah has clearly mentioned who will go to heaven. A non Muslims will NOT enter Heaven according to this sura.
Don't believe me ?
Watch this video.

What about the people who havent witnessed or seen or heard of a prophet or anything
one should read the story of prophet Musa and how he realize about Creator
the whole idea of prophethood is to that there is a Creator and that we believe in Him

There will be a day when all of our deeds will be judged based on our understanding and our environment (culture etc)..present ur case there and goto jannah if u havent done any 'chalaki' u definitely will go to jannah

 

[knowledge88]

What about the people who havent witnessed or seen or heard of a prophet or anything
one should read the story of prophet Musa and how he realize about Creator
the whole idea of prophethood is to that there is a Creator and that we believe in Him

There will be a day when all of our deeds will be judged based on our understanding and our environment (culture etc)..present ur case there and goto jannah if u havent done any 'chalaki' u definitely will go to jannah

Ask any Islamic scholar, sunni, shia, Deo Bandi, Bralvi, the explanation of Sura Asr.
You are giving reasons. You don't give reasons when Allah has clearly mentioned something in Quran. By the way did you see the above video ? You don't agree with Dr Zakir Naik?

 

[Prince of Dhump]

see my video of Dr Zakir Naik. According to Quran, Sura Asr, a non Muslim will NOT enter Heaven (Doesn't matter how good his character was)

what he saying is true in the sense that if its clear to u that there is a Creator and that he has sent a Prophet but still u dont believe then ur doomed...
but if u genuinely cant grip the whole idea then in my opinion ur nt at fault..

 

[Masud Javed]

wah aaj maulana ne evolution pe thread bana dia

 

[cestmoi ✅️]

see my video of Dr Zakir Naik. According to Quran, Sura Asr, a non Muslim will NOT enter Heaven (Doesn't matter how good his character was)

Assuming this non-muslim knew the message of Islam and did not accept it.

Allah knows best.

 

[knowledge88]

what he saying is true in the sense that if its clear to u that there is a Creator and that he has sent a Prophet but still u dont believe then ur doomed...
but if u genuinely cant grip the whole idea then in my opinion ur nt at fault..

In any Law, Worldly or Devine, not understanding a law or not knowing a law will not save you from punishment.

Ignorance of law excuses no one"[2] respectively) is a legal principle holding that a person who is unaware of a law may not escape liability for violating that law merely because one was unaware of its content.

 

[Prince of Dhump]

Ask any Islamic scholar, sunni, shia, Deo Bandi, Bralvi, the explanation of Sura Asr.
You are giving reasons. You don't give reasons when Allah has clearly mentioned something in Quran. By the way did you see the above video ? You don't agree with Dr Zakir Naik?

All the scholars unfortunately are literalist..and thats why we see extemism and terrorism
there are many others scholar who gives u other perpective
and we can read and think for ourselves as well

 

[Prince of Dhump]

In any Law, Worldly or Devine, not understanding a law or not knowing a law will not save you from punishment.

Ignorance of law excuses no one"[2] respectively) is a legal principle holding that a person who is unaware of a law may not escape liability for violating that law merely because one was unaware of its content.

i didnt say nothing about ignorance of law...
what i meant is if what u believe is without any prejudice and with no ill intention then u will have a chance...

about law and all..a mentally challenge person if murder someone is not sent to jail...and that is what i meant

 

[Prince of Dhump]

In any Law, Worldly or Devine, not understanding a law or not knowing a law will not save you from punishment.

Ignorance of law excuses no one"[2] respectively) is a legal principle holding that a person who is unaware of a law may not escape liability for violating that law merely because one was unaware of its content.

btw here ignorance of law is pardonable...is kind of added bonus:p

 

[knowledge88]

i didnt say nothing about ignorance of law...
what i meant is if what u believe is without any prejudice and with no ill intention then u will have a chance...

about law and all..a mentally challenge person if murder someone is not sent to jail...and that is what i meant

 

[knowledge88]

i didnt say nothing about ignorance of law...
what i meant is if what u believe is without any prejudice and with no ill intention then u will have a chance...

about law and all..a mentally challenge person if murder someone is not sent to jail...and that is what i meant

You wrote "what i meant is if what u believe is without any prejudice and with no ill intention then u will have a chance... "
Can you support your argument with either Quran or Hadees. or it is just your logic ?
All the scholars I have listened to all my life have told me that good deeds without Faith or Eemaan will not save someone from going to hell. According to sura Asr. beliving on Allah is a Must to enter heaven.

 

[Prince of Dhump]

You wrote "what i meant is if what u believe is without any prejudice and with no ill intention then u will have a chance... "
Can you support your argument with either Quran or Hadees. or it is just your logic ?
All the scholars I have listened to all my life have told me that good deeds without Faith or Eemaan will not save someone from going to hell. According to sura Asr. beliving on Allah is a Must to enter heaven.

im not an alim and cant give quotation/references
but there are verses in Quran where Allah says that there are certain people who didnt a found a prophet but they came to believe in God (on logical grounds they realise that there has to be a Creator) and that on day of judgement they will be like a nation (qom) of their own..

Allah is Munsif and he hasnt done injustice to us and wont do injustice to anyone..it will be a day of judgement and not a day of mindlessly putting people in hell or heaven..he has equipped us with all necessary tools to find the truth..if we dont find it..then its our mistake and if one think its not his or her mistake then they should justify it on that day

 

[knowledge88]

let me give u another story mentioned in hadees (can be found in both bukhari and muslim)

a man didnt believe God..but just before his death..he told his sons to disassemble his body in many parts after he die..and burn some parts..put some parts in sea and some under the soil..
after he died..God asked him why did u do it
he replied it was due to fear of God..that bcz he was sinful and didnt believe in God and that he thought (in his own understanding) that God would not be able to assemble him and hence unable to punish him

he was pardoned..

You wrote "(can be found in both bukhari and muslim) "
Just give me reference of one of the books. I have both Sahee Muslim and Sahee Bukharee with me. I want to know where it is, Or if you found it on the internet then let me know the web address. Give me anything so I could conform it. Otherwise how can I believe it ?
I would greatly appreciate it.

 

[Prince of Dhump]

You wrote "(can be found in both bukhari and muslim) "
Just give me reference of one of the books. I have both Sahee Muslim and Sahee Bukharee with me. I want to know where it is, Or if you found it on the internet then let me know the web address. Give me anything so I could conform it. Otherwise how can I believe it ?
I would greatly appreciate it.

i heard it in one of Engineer mirza talk..he did gave reference and said its mutafaqqun alayih hadees of bukhari and muslim..ill try to find the reference

 

[Prince of Dhump]

You wrote "(can be found in both bukhari and muslim) "
Just give me reference of one of the books. I have both Sahee Muslim and Sahee Bukharee with me. I want to know where it is, Or if you found it on the internet then let me know the web address. Give me anything so I could conform it. Otherwise how can I believe it ?
I would greatly appreciate it.

sorry my mistake..the person was believer..he was just sinful
here is the video

 

[knowledge88]

sorry my mistake..the person was believer..he was just sinful
here is the video

I accept your apology. My friend I have searched a number of scholars, I have talked to many professionals , they all agree that if one dies without saying that God is one and prophet Muhammad was his last prophet, he will never enter Heaven, (it is mentioned clearly in Sura Asr)
Now see this link, which has a reference to Sahee Bukhari, Here it mentions that even Prophet Muhammad's uncle Hazrat Abu Talib will not enter heaven because he did not accept Islam. (Shias do not believe Sahee Bukharee so they do not believe such Hadees).
But all sunni believe Sahee Bukharee and believe on this hadees. Read this link.
http://www.islamhelpline.net/node/790
I appreciate that you have the courtesy to accept the mistake and apologise,
Thank you

 

[Prince of Dhump]

I accept your apology. My friend I have searched a number of scholars, I have talked to many professionals , they all agree that if one dies without saying that God is one and prophet Muhammad was his last prophet, he will never enter Heaven, (it is mentioned clearly in Sura Asr)
Now see this link, which has a reference to Sahee Bukhari, Here it mentions that even Prophet Muhammad's uncle Hazrat Abu Talib will not enter heaven because he did not accept Islam. (Shias do not believe Sahee Bukharee so they do not believe such Hadees).
But all sunni believe Sahee Bukharee and believe on this hadees. Read this link.
http://www.islamhelpline.net/node/790
I appreciate that you have the courtesy to accept the mistake and apologise,
Thank you

I myself am riddled by these questions..and i want to clarify my beliefs by such discussion and not win some debate...

having said that at no point i challenged the meaning and clarity of the verses in Sura Asr..what i meant is that it has a context which is that if its become evident to you that there is a Creator and u learn he has sent a prophet and still u dont believe then ur good deeds are good for nothing

Again i would say that God is just..if the criterion to enter jannah is so strident then he must have made sure to install an in built mechanism in us to realise that there has to be a Creator and that there is a Creator which is omnipotent and omnipresent etc

If say im born an athiest..as a human being i should b capable of deducing the existence of a creator..then to finally making the best concept of that Creator which is he can be no more than one etc and that he must have sent someone to guide us..but if (with no ill intent and no bias/prejudice) i could not come to the conclusion of existence of God then how is it my mistake and why should i be held accountable for my lack of belief