Allama Ghulam Ahmad Parwez's threads collections

Mughal1 · May 5, 2012

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Scorpion said:
His only contribution was to make a Perwaizi Fitna . . . . I don t know, how Siasat.pk is allowing such kufr so openly . . . . Its seems some Perwaizi has joined the ranks of the admin of this forum . . . .

are bhai un ko chhoren apni baat karen keh aap ki kia contribnution hai ummah ki behtri ke liye?

Mughal1 · May 5, 2012

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

v r imran k said:
qadiyhanat ab siasat .pk per b ho gi.........in fitnoo sy bachoo yay loug islam ka libada orh ker kufar ker rhay hian ...............

are bhai kyun betuki baaten karte ho jin ka koi sar per nahin hai. mullah ki kaal kothari se bahir zara sooraj ki roshni main duniya ko dekho ta keh pata chale khudaa ki duniya kaisi hai. mullah to achhe achhun ki mat maar dete hen main aur aap kis keth ki mooli hen.

Mughal1 · May 5, 2012

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Abdul Allah said:
is it only with Arabic??

Well that is what you need to explain. Is it or is not and if it is then why?

Mughal1 · May 5, 2012

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

PAINDO said:

http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...ib-Must-listen&p=804742&viewfull=1#post804742

patriot · May 5, 2012

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Kia koi mujhe aik aisi hadith bataa sakta hai jis main nimaaz ka pura tariqa bataaya gaya ho.
Matlab k aik hadith jis main subhaanakAllahuma se lekar salaamun Alaikum wa rahmatullah tuk puri nimaaz
ka tariqa likha ho?
Thank you.

Mughal1 · May 5, 2012

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

TruPakistani said:
غلام احمد پرویز ہندوستان کے شہر بٹالہ میں پیدا ہوا اور ابتدائی تعلیم کے بعد انگریزی ادب، فلسفہ، تاریخ، سائنس اور معاشیات کے فنون حاصل کرنے کے ساتھ ساتھ سیاسی و مذہبی تحریکوں کا مطالعہ بھی شروع کر دیا۔ پھر اس پر ستم یہ کہ اسلم جیراجپوری جیسے منکر حدیث کی صحبت اختیار کرلی جسکی بنا پر احادیث سے بغاوت کی راہ اختیار کی، قرآن کی خود ساختہ تفسیر کرنے کی جرات کی پھر بعد میں اپنی رہائش گاہ پر اسکا باقائدہ درس بھی شروع کر دیا۔ اس کے کفریہ عقائد کی بنا پر اسے علماء امّت نے متفقہ طور پر کافر قرار دیا ہے۔

ذیل میں اس کے چند کفریہ عقائد ہیں

اسکا کہنا ہے کے حدیث عجمی سازش ہے اور اس کی کوئی حیثیت و حقیقت نہیں۔-
آج جو اسلام دنیا میں رائج ہے اسکا قرآنی دین سے کوئی واسطہ نہیں۔-
آپ صلّی اللہ علیہ وسلّم کی وفات کے بعد آپکی اطاعت نہیں ہو گی، اطاعت زندوں کی ہوتی ہے۔-
ختم نبوّت کا مطلب ہیکہ اب مسلمانوں کو اپنے معاملات خود ہی حل کرنے ہوں گے۔-
آخرت سے مراد مستقبل ہے۔-
نماز مجوسیوں سے لی ہوئی ہے۔ *قرآن نے نماز پڑھنے کیلئے نہیں کہا۔-
حضرت آدم علیہ سلام کا کوئی وجود نہیں۔-
قرآن کے علاوہ آپ صلّی اللہ علیہ وسلّم کا کوئی اور معجزہ نہیں۔-
جنّت و جھنّم کی کوئی حقیقت نہیں ہے۔-
اللہ سبحان و تعالی کا خارج میں کوئی وجود (نعوذ و باللہ) نہیں ہے بلکہ اللہ سبحان و تعالی ان صفات کا نام ہے جو انسان اپنے اندر تصور کرتا ہے
جنّات کا کوئی وجود نہیں۔ یہ ایک قوم کا نام تھا جو آپ صلّی اللہ علیہ وسلّم کے زمانے میں جنگلوں میں رہتی تھی۔-
حضرت عیسی علیہ سلام کی وفات ہو چکی ہے اور وہ دوبارہ دنیا میں نہیں آئیں گے۔-

غلام احمد پرویز اور پرویزی فرقے کے مندرجہ بالا عقائد ہیں اور یہ لوگ اسی کا پرچار بھی کرتے ہیں، لھذا اس فرقے سے تعلقات کرنا، انکی مجالس میں نشست و برخاست کرنا اور انکے مواعظ و بیانات کی سماعت کرنے سے سخت احتراز لازم ہے۔

Mughal1 · May 5, 2012

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

iceburg said:
@Mughal1

is he telling true things...???

TruPakistani · May 5, 2012

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Mughal1 said:
Dear brother, it is not a good idea to present things against anyone out of their context. Our posts are reflection and sufficient proof of our mindsets and attitudes. It is good idea to be original in thoughts and not be a blind follower. Original thinkers talk different from blind followers. This post speaks more about yourself than allaama parwez marhoom. Read some history about iqbal, jinnah and parwez and see the relationship between them.

Do you really think I would waste my time on going through these? No one would waste and go through the Kufrana videos of pervez.

Instead of the long list of links, Answer the following 12 questions.
The answers should be either you agree with the statements or not. Do not start the raag of out of context.

Its pretty simple, either you agree with the below mentioned statements or not. I do not want any references of vidoes, lectures or anything. I am asking this question to you,

Do you have these beliefs or not?

اسکا کہنا ہے کے حدیث عجمی سازش ہے اور اس کی کوئی حیثیت و حقیقت نہیں۔-
آج جو اسلام دنیا میں رائج ہے اسکا قرآنی دین سے کوئی واسطہ نہیں۔-
آپ صلّی اللہ علیہ وسلّم کی وفات کے بعد آپکی اطاعت نہیں ہو گی، اطاعت زندوں کی ہوتی ہے۔-
ختم نبوّت کا مطلب ہیکہ اب مسلمانوں کو اپنے معاملات خود ہی حل کرنے ہوں گے۔-
آخرت سے مراد مستقبل ہے۔-
نماز مجوسیوں سے لی ہوئی ہے۔ *قرآن نے نماز پڑھنے کیلئے نہیں کہا۔-
حضرت آدم علیہ سلام کا کوئی وجود نہیں۔-
قرآن کے علاوہ آپ صلّی اللہ علیہ وسلّم کا کوئی اور معجزہ نہیں۔-
جنّت و جھنّم کی کوئی حقیقت نہیں ہے۔-
اللہ سبحان و تعالی کا خارج میں کوئی وجود (نعوذ و باللہ) نہیں ہے بلکہ اللہ سبحان و تعالی ان صفات کا نام ہے جو انسان اپنے اندر تصور کرتا ہے
جنّات کا کوئی وجود نہیں۔ یہ ایک قوم کا نام تھا جو آپ صلّی اللہ علیہ وسلّم کے زمانے میں جنگلوں میں رہتی تھی۔-
حضرت عیسی علیہ سلام کی وفات ہو چکی ہے اور وہ دوبارہ دنیا میں نہیں آئیں گے۔-

Mughal1 · May 5, 2012

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

TruPakistani said:
Do you really think I would waste my time on going through these? No one would waste and go through the Kufrana videos of pervez.

Instead of the long list of links, Answer the following 12 questions.
The answers should be either you agree with the statements or not. Do not start the raag of out of context.

Its pretty simple, either you agree with the below mentioned statements or not. I do not want any references of vidoes, lectures or anything. I am asking this question to you,

Do you have these beliefs or not?

???? ???? ?? ?? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??? ?? ?? ???? ????? ? ????? ?????-
?? ?? ????? ???? ??? ???? ?? ???? ????? ??? ?? ???? ????? ?????-
?? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?? ???? ?? ??? ???? ????? ???? ?? ??? ????? ????? ?? ???? ???-
??? ????? ?? ???? ???? ?? ???????? ?? ???? ??????? ??? ?? ?? ???? ??? ???-
???? ?? ???? ?????? ???-
???? ??????? ?? ?? ???? ??? *???? ?? ???? ????? ????? ???? ????-
???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ???? ???? ?????-
???? ?? ????? ?? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?? ???? ??? ????? ?????-
???? ? ????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ???-
???? ????? ? ????? ?? ???? ??? ???? ???? (???? ? ?????) ???? ?? ???? ???? ????? ? ????? ?? ???? ?? ??? ?? ?? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??
????? ?? ???? ???? ????? ?? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ?? ?? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ????-
???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ???? ?? ??? ?? ??? ?? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???-

Dear TruPaksiatni, all your questions have been answered long before you raised them in my posts. Your questions hardly have anything to do with parwez sb because these are intellectual issues about interpretation of the quran and historical accounts regarding which scholar differ a great deal. So you are better doing your own research on these issues and reach your own conclusions. One thing is clear that make beliefs are never the answer. It is always good idea to be sensible and follow the evidence. Once you do that you will not be worried about what mullahs say instead you will follow what makes better sense within the quranic context.

You are forgetting that you can never please mullahs no matter what you do. If you accept shia beliefs, the rest will not be happy and if you follow sunni beliefs then again the rest will not be happy, deobandies will not be happy with beliefs of others and the case is same with brelvies, so the best thing is to try to understand the quran the best you can and follow it the best you can. Stop condemning other people and worry about yourself and see if you can help others see sense by learning sense yourself.

http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...ib-Must-listen&p=804742&viewfull=1#post804742

TruPakistani · May 5, 2012

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Mughal1 said:
Dear TruPaksiatni, all your questions have been answered long before you raised them in my posts. Your questions hardly have anything to do with parwez sb because these are intellectual issues about interpretation of the quran and historical accounts regarding which scholar differ a great deal. So you are better doing your own research on these issues and reach your own conclusions. One thing is clear that make beliefs are never the answer. It is always good idea to be sensible and follow the evidence. Once you do that you will not be worried about what mullahs say instead you will follow what makes better sense within the quranic context.

You are forgetting that you can never please mullahs no matter what you do. If you accept shia beliefs, the rest will not be happy and if you follow sunni beliefs then again the rest will not be happy, deobandies will not be happy with beliefs of others and the case is same with brelvies, so the best thing is to try to understand the quran the best you can and follow it the best you can. Stop condemning other people and worry about yourself and see if you can help others see sense by learning sense yourself.

http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...ib-Must-listen&p=804742&viewfull=1#post804742

I knew you will answer these questions and start giving useless reasoning.
I wasted my time in engaging into dialogue with someone who defies the Quran but claims otherwise.

Mughal1 · May 6, 2012

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Abdul Allah · May 7, 2012

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

iceburg said:
Then limit your questions to only ideas

It is your ++++GREAT+++ Idea
that Hadith are Khokli batain

so i ask you that tell me where we can find EXACT way of praying (tarika Namaz) that you follow in Quran?

Simple Question needs simple answer isnt it??

Abdul Allah · May 7, 2012

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Mughal1 said:
Well that is what you need to explain. Is it or is not and if it is then why?

to explain what you are trying to prove

an example for

DATE=a fruit that is sweet and good to eat
DATE=a day on Calander

Now long ago someone write a sentence as

He used to eat DATE

people of that language used to translate it as
Wo khajoor khaya karta tha

but then in 19's

someone XYZ said they(people of the language) were wrong

here DATE means (day of calander)

and the writer want to say that

wo Wakat zaya kia karta tha

kaaay ap us XYZ k batuki baat ko except karlain gy

due the language sytle that DATE have many meanings??

Abdul Allah · May 7, 2012

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Mughal1 said:
Dear TruPaksiatni, all your questions have been answered long before you raised them in my posts. Your questions hardly have anything to do with parwez sb because these are intellectual issues about interpretation of the quran and historical accounts regarding which scholar differ a great deal. So you are better doing your own research on these issues and reach your own conclusions. One thing is clear that make beliefs are never the answer. It is always good idea to be sensible and follow the evidence. Once you do that you will not be worried about what mullahs say instead you will follow what makes better sense within the quranic context.

You are forgetting that you can never please mullahs no matter what you do. If you accept shia beliefs, the rest will not be happy and if you follow sunni beliefs then again the rest will not be happy, deobandies will not be happy with beliefs of others and the case is same with brelvies, so the best thing is to try to understand the quran the best you can and follow it the best you can. Stop condemning other people and worry about yourself and see if you can help others see sense by learning sense yourself.

http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...ib-Must-listen&p=804742&viewfull=1#post804742

Why you always avoid to answer simple question?

he asked you 12 question ask them directly without writing articles and essay

TruPakistani · May 7, 2012

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Abdul Allah said:
Why you always avoid to answer simple question?

he asked you 12 question ask them directly without writing articles and essay

He will never answer the 12 questions in yes or no.

He will try to manouver around, paste numerous video links, write useless long justifications etc etc, but will never admit to the simple 12 beliefs, which I asked.

He knows if he answers these 12 beliefs in yes (as this is what pervez believes in) then he will be kicked by every one on this forum. They are trained in long discussions, without confirming anything specific.

TruPakistani · May 7, 2012

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Mughal1 said:

Do you have these beliefs or not? YES or NO

???? ???? ?? ?? ???? ???? ???? ?? ??? ?? ?? ???? ????? ? ????? ?????-
?? ?? ????? ???? ??? ???? ?? ???? ????? ??? ?? ???? ????? ?????-
?? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?? ???? ?? ??? ???? ????? ???? ?? ??? ????? ????? ?? ???? ???-
??? ????? ?? ???? ???? ?? ???????? ?? ???? ??????? ??? ?? ?? ???? ??? ???-
???? ?? ???? ?????? ???-
???? ??????? ?? ?? ???? ??? *???? ?? ???? ????? ????? ???? ????-
???? ??? ???? ???? ?? ???? ???? ?????-
???? ?? ????? ?? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?? ???? ??? ????? ?????-
???? ? ????? ?? ???? ????? ???? ???-
???? ????? ? ????? ?? ???? ??? ???? ???? (???? ? ?????) ???? ?? ???? ???? ????? ? ????? ?? ???? ?? ??? ?? ?? ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ??
????? ?? ???? ???? ????? ?? ??? ??? ?? ??? ??? ?? ?? ???? ???? ???? ????? ?? ????? ??? ?????? ??? ???? ????-
???? ???? ???? ???? ?? ???? ?? ??? ?? ??? ?? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ???? ???-

Mughal1 · May 7, 2012

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Abdul Allah said:
to explain what you are trying to prove

an example for

DATE=a fruit that is sweet and good to eat
DATE=a day on Calander

Now long ago someone write a sentence as

He used to eat DATE

people of that language used to translate it as
Wo khajoor khaya karta tha

but then in 19's

someone XYZ said they(people of the language) were wrong

here DATE means (day of calander)

and the writer want to say that

wo Wakat zaya kia karta tha

kaaay ap us XYZ k batuki baat ko except karlain gy

due the language sytle that DATE have many meanings??

Dear brother abdulllah, thank you for making the effort now please explain origin of word date and why the same word is used to mean two different things? I agree with your explanation of use of language but it does not explain why two meaning of the same word. Once we understand that we will have better idea how languages actually work. It will also therefore explain why some one who took a different meaning of word was right. In short once we realise this our problem will be solved as to how to interpret the quran properly in present context always. In other words door to ijtihaad is open always therefore so long as one has good explanation what one explains is correct.

regards and all the best.

iceburg · May 7, 2012

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Abdul Allah said:
It is your ++++GREAT+++ Idea
that Hadith are Khokli batain

so i ask you that tell me where we can find EXACT way of praying (tarika Namaz) that you follow in Quran?

Simple Question needs simple answer isnt it??

You will not like it ... but honestly ... Ghulam Ahmed Pervez point of view is accurate. He does not reject or deny ahadith. He only says that Quran cannot be tested against Hadith (as you do and it is your attitude which has made me think like Pervez sahib). Hadith is to be tested against Quran. If Hadith is in accordance with Quran ... then it is binding part of Shariah and deserves all reverence and taazeem.

But "Hadith" which contradicts Quran is absolutely a false Hadith.

Chain reference in Hadith is Not a "Khokhli baat" if Hadith is not contradictory to Quran. But if Hadith is contradictory to Quran ... then the Chain Reference (how much rich may be) is a khokhli baat. Simple is that...!!!

Mughal1 · May 7, 2012

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Abdul Allah said:
Why you always avoid to answer simple question?

he asked you 12 question ask them directly without writing articles and essay

TruPakistani said:
He will never answer the 12 questions in yes or no.

He will try to manouver around, paste numerous video links, write useless long justifications etc etc, but will never admit to the simple 12 beliefs, which I asked.

He knows if he answers these 12 beliefs in yes (as this is what pervez believes in) then he will be kicked by every one on this forum. They are trained in long discussions, without confirming anything specific.

dear brothers, I do not have any problem answering any question directly but for such as give impression that they have the necessary rest of the background information. However if anyone gives me impression through one's posts that one does not have necessary background information then it is not right for me to give simple answers because that would cause confusion and create wrong impression in such peoples' minds therefore explanation becomes necessary. However if you people tell me background information to each of the questions then I can either agree with your information or disagree.

The videos I posted very clearly show the situation with islam and muslims after the death of the prophet. It leaves us in no doubt that people who took over the rein of power did as they pleased. Thet derailed islamic rule as a first thing. They invented certain concept that were alien to islam and spread them as islam. Not only that but they also invented a lot a texts as ahadith of the prophet. This being the case there is no aalim in the muslim world who accept any book of hadith as 100% reliable.

This being the case criterion become necessary to judge each and every ahadith by. It is because of this confusion shia sunni parties reject each others hadith books. If arabs themselves conspired against islamic rule then why not nonarabs? Moreover if you have been attending any debates between deobandies, brelvaies, salafies, wahabies, ahle hadith etc, you will see a lot of controversy about reliability of ahadith works. This is why explanation is necessary.

So allaama parwez sb did not reject hadith per se but had reasons to reject some ahadith just like any other scholar of islam. Why then such opposition to parwez sb alone? Why not others?

Read parwez sb own writing about his stand on hadith.

http://www.parwez.tv/urdu-books-by-...ma-ghulam-ahmad-parwez-------read-online.html

Similarly there are good explanations about all your questions. See if you can refute any. It is silly to throw around false accusations against people without really knowing their position.

regards and all the best.

Abdul Allah · May 7, 2012

Re: The main contributions of ghulam ahmed parwez to islam and muslims

Mughal1 said:
Dear brother abdulllah, thank you for making the effort now please explain origin of word date and why the same word is used to mean two different things? I agree with your explanation of use of language but it does not explain why two meaning of the same word. Once we understand that we will have better idea how languages actually work. It will also therefore explain why some one who took a different meaning of word was right. In short once we realise this our problem will be solved as to how to interpret the quran properly in present context always. In other words door to ijtihaad is open always therefore so long as one has good explanation what one explains is correct.

regards and all the best.

Do we need Ijtihaad for established facts?

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