Abbottabad like Incidents Shall not be Tolerated- General Kiyani
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crankthskunk
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: Media Scrambles as Bin Laden Story Crumbles
The just of this article I have pointed out in one of the thread I open on inconsistencies.
I want everyone to note from my previous posts, which were posted just after the incident.
1- This is going to be a bigger conspiracy than 9/11.
2- Pakistanis were involved in the operations.
3- Pakistanis decided with the Americans, that they should take the applauds from American people.
4- While Pakistan would deny the knowledge of the Incident and take the wrath of their nation. (good isn't it , but these liars and crooks deserve it) Thinking the storm would be over in few days.
5- Main reason why Pakistani establishment and Government did not respond for few days, because they already decided with Americans that the Americans would control the flow of information to the media. Keeping away idiots from Pakistan government to muddle the situation by giving idiotic press conferences.
6- But guess what, it is very difficult to keep the lies hidden for long, Americans despite their best efforts and cleaver tactics are getting exposed. Now even the western media is asking some serious questions.
7- As for Pakistanis, well, they still trying to formulate a strategy, from (Un)Democratic Government of Zardari. "Billi Galee pargai".
The just of this article I have pointed out in one of the thread I open on inconsistencies.
I want everyone to note from my previous posts, which were posted just after the incident.
1- This is going to be a bigger conspiracy than 9/11.
2- Pakistanis were involved in the operations.
3- Pakistanis decided with the Americans, that they should take the applauds from American people.
4- While Pakistan would deny the knowledge of the Incident and take the wrath of their nation. (good isn't it , but these liars and crooks deserve it) Thinking the storm would be over in few days.
5- Main reason why Pakistani establishment and Government did not respond for few days, because they already decided with Americans that the Americans would control the flow of information to the media. Keeping away idiots from Pakistan government to muddle the situation by giving idiotic press conferences.
6- But guess what, it is very difficult to keep the lies hidden for long, Americans despite their best efforts and cleaver tactics are getting exposed. Now even the western media is asking some serious questions.
7- As for Pakistanis, well, they still trying to formulate a strategy, from (Un)Democratic Government of Zardari. "Billi Galee pargai".
Rana Tahir Mahmood
Senator (1k+ posts)
Re: Osama was probably captured alive, and could be in CIA custody for interrogation
kuchh na samjhay khuda karay koi
kuchh na samjhay khuda karay koi
maksyed
Siasat.pk - Blogger
US Meddling: Pakistans Long War Has Just Begun
US Meddling: Pakistans Long War Has Just Begun
Brig. SAMSON SIMON SHARAF | Sunday | 8 May 2011 | The Nation
WWW.PAKNATIONALISTS.COM
Back in October 2010, I had cautioned Pakistans security planners to be on guard for military intervention from the western border. Since then, weve had five major attacks on Pakistan from that side. The fortified US and ISAF bases in Afghanistan are now being used against Pakistan.
ISLAMABAD, PakistanFor Pakistanis, this is not time to feel embarrassed and to hang heads in shame over the simplicity and quickness of the operation that killed Osama bin Laden. It is rather a time for a long overdue bugle cry that Pakistan is at war. 1/5 was not Pakistans Day inasmuch as 9/11 exposed the vulnerabilities in USAs Homeland Security.
Writing in TheNation in December 2009, I had assessed the next 18 months and beyond as crucial for Pakistan and reiterated that Pakistan must reassert itself on February 20. I had written: The next 18 months and beyond will test Pakistan to the verge.
Between the 14th and 17th months, we have witnessed the Raymond Davis case, a drone attack on a peaceful jirga, a full-fledged conventional multi-directional night attack on a border outpost in Dir, a border skirmish at Angoor Adda and now the operation to kill Osama bin laden.
Writing an article, Pakistan: A Rudderless State, earlier in TheNation in November 2010, I had cautioned the security planners of Pakistan to beware of the Cold Start-type operations from across the Durand Line. I had also written about the heavily fortified US and ISAF citadels in Afghanistan that would be used as pivots of such operations against Pakistan. No one in our security establishment and the media took notice of the warnings.
2009-2010 had been remarkable years of Pakistans fight against militancy. During this time, joint intelligence operations led by Pakistan had resulted in the elimination of numerous prized targets both from TTP and Al-Qaeda. The efficiency of information gathering was such that many high value targets deemed missing and believed to be killed had been brought back into focus and neutralised, some amongst them US nationals. But by mid-2010, this cooperation began to wane due to the direct influx of the CIA agents into Pakistan. Since this influx was not a part of the working agreements between the ISI and CIA, Pakistans security establishment felt that they were being stabbed in the back.
Counter security efforts, on part of Pakistan, identified hundreds of locations in the country in which the US agents had located themselves inside Pakistan covertly. Some of these locations were heavily fortified and the activities inside them were always dubious. After much rallying, Pakistan was able to force the closure of some of these locations, but not all. Meanwhile, the network of CIAs local informers was spreading, a reason why the agency forced budgetary reallocations for its operations in Pakistan. With huge funds to play around, the CIA could now buy off anyone, including Al-Qaeda agents whose data Pakistan had shared with the USA. They put tags on many such targets and monitored all their movements and places of visit. Consequently, what they have been able to track with their superior technical resources and heavy monetary disbursements is a trail of redoubts within Pakistan, where the militants have contacts and hiding places. Then came the Raymond Davis shooting and some issues became public.
There is definitely a trove of very important information that the US has extracted from shared sources and double crossing. One such is the hideout of Osama bin Laden, his courier trails and much more. The biggest vulnerability that Pakistan faces is that some of its own assets within this Al-Qaeda trail may have been exposed, or double crossed and could be used to blackmail Pakistan into coercion.
source : http://www.ahmedquraishi.com/2011/05/08/us-meddling-pakistan%E2%80%99s-long-war-has-just-begun/
US Meddling: Pakistans Long War Has Just Begun
Brig. SAMSON SIMON SHARAF | Sunday | 8 May 2011 | The Nation
WWW.PAKNATIONALISTS.COM
Back in October 2010, I had cautioned Pakistans security planners to be on guard for military intervention from the western border. Since then, weve had five major attacks on Pakistan from that side. The fortified US and ISAF bases in Afghanistan are now being used against Pakistan.
ISLAMABAD, PakistanFor Pakistanis, this is not time to feel embarrassed and to hang heads in shame over the simplicity and quickness of the operation that killed Osama bin Laden. It is rather a time for a long overdue bugle cry that Pakistan is at war. 1/5 was not Pakistans Day inasmuch as 9/11 exposed the vulnerabilities in USAs Homeland Security.
Writing in TheNation in December 2009, I had assessed the next 18 months and beyond as crucial for Pakistan and reiterated that Pakistan must reassert itself on February 20. I had written: The next 18 months and beyond will test Pakistan to the verge.
Between the 14th and 17th months, we have witnessed the Raymond Davis case, a drone attack on a peaceful jirga, a full-fledged conventional multi-directional night attack on a border outpost in Dir, a border skirmish at Angoor Adda and now the operation to kill Osama bin laden.
Writing an article, Pakistan: A Rudderless State, earlier in TheNation in November 2010, I had cautioned the security planners of Pakistan to beware of the Cold Start-type operations from across the Durand Line. I had also written about the heavily fortified US and ISAF citadels in Afghanistan that would be used as pivots of such operations against Pakistan. No one in our security establishment and the media took notice of the warnings.
2009-2010 had been remarkable years of Pakistans fight against militancy. During this time, joint intelligence operations led by Pakistan had resulted in the elimination of numerous prized targets both from TTP and Al-Qaeda. The efficiency of information gathering was such that many high value targets deemed missing and believed to be killed had been brought back into focus and neutralised, some amongst them US nationals. But by mid-2010, this cooperation began to wane due to the direct influx of the CIA agents into Pakistan. Since this influx was not a part of the working agreements between the ISI and CIA, Pakistans security establishment felt that they were being stabbed in the back.
Counter security efforts, on part of Pakistan, identified hundreds of locations in the country in which the US agents had located themselves inside Pakistan covertly. Some of these locations were heavily fortified and the activities inside them were always dubious. After much rallying, Pakistan was able to force the closure of some of these locations, but not all. Meanwhile, the network of CIAs local informers was spreading, a reason why the agency forced budgetary reallocations for its operations in Pakistan. With huge funds to play around, the CIA could now buy off anyone, including Al-Qaeda agents whose data Pakistan had shared with the USA. They put tags on many such targets and monitored all their movements and places of visit. Consequently, what they have been able to track with their superior technical resources and heavy monetary disbursements is a trail of redoubts within Pakistan, where the militants have contacts and hiding places. Then came the Raymond Davis shooting and some issues became public.
There is definitely a trove of very important information that the US has extracted from shared sources and double crossing. One such is the hideout of Osama bin Laden, his courier trails and much more. The biggest vulnerability that Pakistan faces is that some of its own assets within this Al-Qaeda trail may have been exposed, or double crossed and could be used to blackmail Pakistan into coercion.
source : http://www.ahmedquraishi.com/2011/05/08/us-meddling-pakistan%E2%80%99s-long-war-has-just-begun/
simple_and_peacefull
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
US demands list of top spy names from Pakistan
source of news : the express tribune
dated : 8/5/11
US administration demands to know identities top Pakistani intelligence operatives to determine their links with OBL.
ISLAMABAD:
The US administration has demanded the identities of some of the top Pakistani intelligence operatives as it tried to determine whether any of them had contact with Osama bin Laden, The New York Times reported late Friday.
But Pakistani security analysts believe that Washington is going a little too far by making such a demand.
Citing unnamed US officials, the newspaper said members of the US administration had expressed deep frustration with the Pakistani military and intelligence for their refusal to identify members of the Inter-Services Intelligence, who were believed to have close ties to Bin Laden.
In particular, US officials demanded information on what is known as the ISIs directorate, which has worked closely with militants since the days of the fight against the Soviet army in Afghanistan, the report said.
Former military and diplomatic officials, however, appeared to be divided on how Islamabad should respond to pressures Washington has been piling on the country since Bin Laden was killed in a raid by US special forces on May 2 in Abbottabad.
While the Foreign Office did not offer any reaction, there were both words of caution and calls for completely severing diplomatic ties with the US by political analysts who were once part of the countrys civilian or military bureaucracy.
Its hard to believe that Kayani and Pasha actually knew that Bin Laden was there, a senior administration official said, referring to Pakistans Army chief Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, and the ISI Director-General Lt- Gen Ahmad Shuja Pasha. But there are degrees of knowing, and it wouldnt surprise me if we find out that someone close to Pasha knew.
The harshest reaction came from Brigadier (retd) Mahmoud Shah, a Peshawar-based retired security official thought to be close to the current leadership of Pakistani military.
If they (Americans) continue to treat us like that, we should pull out of the alliance with themwe should recall our ambassador from Washington and send theirs out, Shah said who frequently meets Gen Kayani.
Why not after all, it is important for the survival and safety of Pakistan, was the answer of Shah when asked whether he seriously thinks it was possible.
It is time to take bold initiatives we need to tell the Americans we want to be left alone. We fight our battle here and you in Afghanistan, he added.
But there were others who believed a fragile cooperation between Pakistan and the US was indispensable for both the troubled allies in the war on terror.
Brigadier (retd) Muhammad Saad said interdependence between the two was so strong that they couldnt move forward without each other.
The Americans cant survive in Afghanistan without us and our economy and the military are largely dependent on the US help we should continue to cooperate with each other. Our mutual interest is in it, he added.
While advising Pakistan to accept its incompetence in detecting Bin Laden in their backyard, Pakistani leadership should not be complacent on responding to accusations against the ISI.
Former Ambassador Tariq Fatemi said Islamabad should expect more pressure because this was how the US treats friends.
We are heading towards more difficult situation if there is no honest and frank reappraisal, Tariq remarked when asked how he saw the future of Pak-US relations.
Former diplomat Tanveer Ahmed Khan said in his opinion things were getting out of hands and advised the political leadership to engage their American counterparts in a quiet diplomacy.
I think both countries need each otherAfghanistan is still an unfinished story and no one can rule out the role of Pakistan, he added. (With additional reporting from AFP)
Published in The Express Tribune, May 8th, 2011.
source of news : the express tribune
dated : 8/5/11
US administration demands to know identities top Pakistani intelligence operatives to determine their links with OBL.
ISLAMABAD:
The US administration has demanded the identities of some of the top Pakistani intelligence operatives as it tried to determine whether any of them had contact with Osama bin Laden, The New York Times reported late Friday.
But Pakistani security analysts believe that Washington is going a little too far by making such a demand.
Citing unnamed US officials, the newspaper said members of the US administration had expressed deep frustration with the Pakistani military and intelligence for their refusal to identify members of the Inter-Services Intelligence, who were believed to have close ties to Bin Laden.
In particular, US officials demanded information on what is known as the ISIs directorate, which has worked closely with militants since the days of the fight against the Soviet army in Afghanistan, the report said.
Former military and diplomatic officials, however, appeared to be divided on how Islamabad should respond to pressures Washington has been piling on the country since Bin Laden was killed in a raid by US special forces on May 2 in Abbottabad.
While the Foreign Office did not offer any reaction, there were both words of caution and calls for completely severing diplomatic ties with the US by political analysts who were once part of the countrys civilian or military bureaucracy.
Its hard to believe that Kayani and Pasha actually knew that Bin Laden was there, a senior administration official said, referring to Pakistans Army chief Gen Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, and the ISI Director-General Lt- Gen Ahmad Shuja Pasha. But there are degrees of knowing, and it wouldnt surprise me if we find out that someone close to Pasha knew.
The harshest reaction came from Brigadier (retd) Mahmoud Shah, a Peshawar-based retired security official thought to be close to the current leadership of Pakistani military.
If they (Americans) continue to treat us like that, we should pull out of the alliance with themwe should recall our ambassador from Washington and send theirs out, Shah said who frequently meets Gen Kayani.
Why not after all, it is important for the survival and safety of Pakistan, was the answer of Shah when asked whether he seriously thinks it was possible.
It is time to take bold initiatives we need to tell the Americans we want to be left alone. We fight our battle here and you in Afghanistan, he added.
But there were others who believed a fragile cooperation between Pakistan and the US was indispensable for both the troubled allies in the war on terror.
Brigadier (retd) Muhammad Saad said interdependence between the two was so strong that they couldnt move forward without each other.
The Americans cant survive in Afghanistan without us and our economy and the military are largely dependent on the US help we should continue to cooperate with each other. Our mutual interest is in it, he added.
While advising Pakistan to accept its incompetence in detecting Bin Laden in their backyard, Pakistani leadership should not be complacent on responding to accusations against the ISI.
Former Ambassador Tariq Fatemi said Islamabad should expect more pressure because this was how the US treats friends.
We are heading towards more difficult situation if there is no honest and frank reappraisal, Tariq remarked when asked how he saw the future of Pak-US relations.
Former diplomat Tanveer Ahmed Khan said in his opinion things were getting out of hands and advised the political leadership to engage their American counterparts in a quiet diplomacy.
I think both countries need each otherAfghanistan is still an unfinished story and no one can rule out the role of Pakistan, he added. (With additional reporting from AFP)
Published in The Express Tribune, May 8th, 2011.
moazzamniaz
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: US demands list of top spy names from Pakistan
Is there any end of this humiliation spree???????????
Is there any end of this humiliation spree???????????
Last edited:
simple_and_peacefull
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Re: US demands list of top spy names from Pakistan
no.. there isn't..until our nation get united.
no.. there isn't..until our nation get united.
Complete picture of how O B L was killed
this movie gives viewers the most complete picture yet of the death of Osama bin Laden, from inside the situation room in Washington, DC to inside the compound in Pakistan and inside the minds of the brave men who stormed it. With new details and behind-the-scenes reports.
http://www.putlocker.com/file/F39E517EE59F3C9B#
this movie gives viewers the most complete picture yet of the death of Osama bin Laden, from inside the situation room in Washington, DC to inside the compound in Pakistan and inside the minds of the brave men who stormed it. With new details and behind-the-scenes reports.
http://www.putlocker.com/file/F39E517EE59F3C9B#
karachiwala
Prime Minister (20k+ posts)
Re: Complete picture of how O B L was killed
This is how the news is presented. Loud music, bits of movies added in with acutal pictures and all presented in a fashion taht people are glued to it. Look at the girl saying every time she saw UBL she ran into her room and shut her doors??? Someone tell her he may still come and haunt you guys (bigsmile)
This is how the news is presented. Loud music, bits of movies added in with acutal pictures and all presented in a fashion taht people are glued to it. Look at the girl saying every time she saw UBL she ran into her room and shut her doors??? Someone tell her he may still come and haunt you guys (bigsmile)
simple_and_peacefull
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Was bin Laden really calling the shots?
source f news : the express tribune
dated : 8/5/11
Pakistani protesters burn a poster of US President Barack Obama during an anti-US demonstration in Multan on May 8, 2011. PHOTO: AFP
ISLAMABAD: It didnt figure. U.S.Intelligence released footage of a grey- bearded, disheveled figure wrapped in a shawl and wearing a woollen hat, and then it said that this same old man had been calling the shots on al Qaedas plots around the globe.
There was doubt and derision in Pakistan on Sunday at the suggestion that Osama bin Ladens hideout north of the capital, Islamabad, was somehow an active command and control centre for al Qaeda.
It sounds ridiculous, said a senior intelligence official.
It doesnt sound like he was running a terror network.
For one thing, there was no internet connection or even telephone lines into the compound that U.S. commandos raided a week ago, killing the worlds most-wanted man.
More critically, analysts have long maintained that, years before bin Ladens death, al Qaeda had fragmented into a decentralised group that operated tactically without him.
Its BS, said another senior Pakistani security official, when quizzed on a U.S. intelligence officials assertion that bin Laden had been active in operational planning and in driving tactical decisions of the militant group from his secret home in the town of Abbottabad.
They will say whatever they like. I can say tomorrow that he was planning to make nuclear or chemical weapons Would you believe it? I think theres an element of exaggeration. Theyre playing it up.
A senior U.S. intelligence official said in Washington information carted away from the compound by U.S. forces after the May 2 raid, including the videos, several clips of which were released, represented the largest trove of intelligence ever obtained from a single terrorism suspect.
The official said the materials showed that bin Laden had remained an active leader of al Qaeda, which made the operation that led to his death even more essential for our nations security.
Two countries, two versions
Pakistans military, caught off guard by the Abbottabad swoop and now facing accusations that it was either too incompetent to catch bin Laden or complicit in hiding him, has sought to depict the al Qaeda leader as a man of diminished influence.
Stressing bin Ladens weakness makes his discovery in the middle of a garrison town less embarrassing for Pakistan, but playing up his importance makes the U.S. operation all the more glorious.
Analysts say that bin Ladens centrality to the network had already faded. While the man behind the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States served as an inspirational figure, strikes on Western targets were increasingly plotted and instigated by autonomous splinter groups.
As a matter of leadership of terrorist operations, bin Laden has really not been the main story for some time, Paul Pillar, a former senior U.S. Intelligence official told Reuters last week.
Talat Masood, a Pakistani defence analyst and retired general, said bin Laden distributed videos occasionally and he may have passed computer disks with ideas for strikes to his couriers, but it was hard to see how that would put him at the nerve centre of operations.
The only thing he could have done in that house is to record video and audio messages, a senior security official said in Islamabad.
How could he control the whole of al Qaeda from there while he has no communications system? How can he control the entire al Qaeda when he was living with two guards, an 18-inch television and no big weapons. Its just an exaggeration.
source f news : the express tribune
dated : 8/5/11
Pakistani protesters burn a poster of US President Barack Obama during an anti-US demonstration in Multan on May 8, 2011. PHOTO: AFP
ISLAMABAD: It didnt figure. U.S.Intelligence released footage of a grey- bearded, disheveled figure wrapped in a shawl and wearing a woollen hat, and then it said that this same old man had been calling the shots on al Qaedas plots around the globe.
There was doubt and derision in Pakistan on Sunday at the suggestion that Osama bin Ladens hideout north of the capital, Islamabad, was somehow an active command and control centre for al Qaeda.
It sounds ridiculous, said a senior intelligence official.
It doesnt sound like he was running a terror network.
For one thing, there was no internet connection or even telephone lines into the compound that U.S. commandos raided a week ago, killing the worlds most-wanted man.
More critically, analysts have long maintained that, years before bin Ladens death, al Qaeda had fragmented into a decentralised group that operated tactically without him.
Its BS, said another senior Pakistani security official, when quizzed on a U.S. intelligence officials assertion that bin Laden had been active in operational planning and in driving tactical decisions of the militant group from his secret home in the town of Abbottabad.
They will say whatever they like. I can say tomorrow that he was planning to make nuclear or chemical weapons Would you believe it? I think theres an element of exaggeration. Theyre playing it up.
A senior U.S. intelligence official said in Washington information carted away from the compound by U.S. forces after the May 2 raid, including the videos, several clips of which were released, represented the largest trove of intelligence ever obtained from a single terrorism suspect.
The official said the materials showed that bin Laden had remained an active leader of al Qaeda, which made the operation that led to his death even more essential for our nations security.
Two countries, two versions
Pakistans military, caught off guard by the Abbottabad swoop and now facing accusations that it was either too incompetent to catch bin Laden or complicit in hiding him, has sought to depict the al Qaeda leader as a man of diminished influence.
Stressing bin Ladens weakness makes his discovery in the middle of a garrison town less embarrassing for Pakistan, but playing up his importance makes the U.S. operation all the more glorious.
Analysts say that bin Ladens centrality to the network had already faded. While the man behind the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States served as an inspirational figure, strikes on Western targets were increasingly plotted and instigated by autonomous splinter groups.
As a matter of leadership of terrorist operations, bin Laden has really not been the main story for some time, Paul Pillar, a former senior U.S. Intelligence official told Reuters last week.
Talat Masood, a Pakistani defence analyst and retired general, said bin Laden distributed videos occasionally and he may have passed computer disks with ideas for strikes to his couriers, but it was hard to see how that would put him at the nerve centre of operations.
The only thing he could have done in that house is to record video and audio messages, a senior security official said in Islamabad.
How could he control the whole of al Qaeda from there while he has no communications system? How can he control the entire al Qaeda when he was living with two guards, an 18-inch television and no big weapons. Its just an exaggeration.
angryoldman
Minister (2k+ posts)
Re: US Meddling: Pakistans Long War Has Just Begun
nice 1.
hard time coming ahead.
nice 1.
hard time coming ahead.
