سائنس اور کشف

[Raaz]

True: In Short

1. Allah's Knowledge is Eternal, Prophet's (صلى الله عليه وسلم) Knowledge was not eternal.
2. Allah's Knowledge Is Zaati, Prophet's (صلى الله عليه وسلم) Knowledge Is Granted (by Allah)
3. Allah's Knowledge Is Infinite, Prophet's (صلى الله عليه وسلم) Knowledge is Finite.

We dont have any doubt about your references...Allah and Quran R true and you too...

No more argument please... ..

 

[Veila Mast]

There are some questions raised by respected members. May I request all of you to kindly go through my previous post without any bias and Insha-Allah you will find answers to your questions:

1. Allah's Knowledge is Eternal, Prophet's (صلى الله عليه وسلم) Knowledge was not eternal.
2. Allah's Knowledge Is Zaati, Prophet's (صلى الله عليه وسلم) Knowledge Is Granted (by Allah)
3. Allah's Knowledge Is Infinite, Prophet's (صلى الله عليه وسلم) Knowledge is Finite

Generally known definition of Ilm-e-Ghaib is "Knowledge of Unknown is called Elum e Ghaib"

Correct Definition of Elum e Ghaib is knowledge of unknown WITH OUT ANY SOURCE is called Elum e Ghaib.

First we need to understand the true definition of Ilm-e-Ghaib it will help us in understanding Ayats.

Quran:13.Ar-Ra'd: 8-9

اللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ مَا تَحْمِلُ كُلُّ أُنثَىٰ وَمَا تَغِيضُ الْأَرْحَامُ وَمَا تَزْدَادُ ۖ وَكُلُّ شَيْءٍ عِندَهُ بِمِقْدَارٍ​

Yusuf Ali 8: Allah doth know what every female (womb) doth bear, by how much the wombs fall short (of their time or number) or do exceed. Every single thing is before His sight, in (due) proportion.

الله کو معلوم ہے کہ جو کچھ ہر مادہ اپنے پیٹ میں لیے ہوئے ہے اورجو کچھ پیٹ میں سکڑتا اور بڑھتا ہے اور اس کے ہاں ہر چیز کا اندازہ ہے​

عَالِمُ الْغَيْبِ وَالشَّهَادَةِ الْكَبِيرُ الْمُتَعَالِ​

Yusuf Ali 9: He knoweth the unseen and that which is open: He is the Great, the Most High.

پوشیدہ اور ظاہر کا جاننے والا ہے سب سے بڑا بلند مرتبہ ہے​

Quran:Luqman, 31:34

إِنَّ اللَّهَ عِندَهُ عِلْمُ السَّاعَةِ وَيُنَزِّلُ الْغَيْثَ وَيَعْلَمُ مَا فِي الْأَرْحَامِ ۖ وَمَا تَدْرِي نَفْسٌ مَّاذَا تَكْسِبُ غَدًا ۖ وَمَا تَدْرِي نَفْسٌ بِأَيِّ أَرْضٍ تَمُوتُ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلِيمٌ خَبِيرٌ​

Yusuf Ali 34: Verily the knowledge of the Hour is with Allah (alone). It is He Who sends down rain, and He Who knows what is in the wombs. Nor does any one know what it is that he will earn on the morrow: Nor does any one know in what land he is to die. Verily with Allah is full knowledge and He is acquainted (with all things).

بے شک الله ہی کو قیامت کی خبر ہے اور وہی مینہ برساتا ہے اور وہی جانتا ہے جو کچھ ماؤں کے پیٹوں میں ہوتا ہے اور کوئی نہیں جانتا کہ کل کیا کرے گا اور کوئی نہیں جانتا کہ کس زمین پر مرے گا بے شک الله جاننے والا خبردار ہے​

Here Quran is referring to Elum e Ghaib means no one has the knowledge of Unseen except ALLAH . Allah gave example of Womb of mother that you don,t know what is in womb of mother because you don't know unseen. Like saying that you don't know what is behind wall.

Here source comes :

When u see what is in womb of mother through some source (for example, Ultra sound) then it is no more unseen. You are seeing it through some source then you are telling what is in womb of mother it is not knowledge of unseen because you are knowing it through some source.
Quraan didn't say that u cannot invent such tool which can see that what is in womb of mother. Quraan is referring to unseen.

When your are telling what is happening behind wall and in Afghanistan through media or any other source Then this Elum will not be consider as Elum e Ghaib.

Quran 72:26-27

عَالِمُ الْغَيْبِ فَلَا يُظْهِرُ عَلَىٰ غَيْبِهِ أَحَدًا-إِلَّا مَنِ ارْتَضَىٰ مِن رَّسُولٍ فَإِنَّهُ يَسْلُكُ مِن بَيْنِ يَدَيْهِ وَمِنْ خَلْفِهِ رَصَدًا​

Yusuf Ali 26-27: "He (alone) knows the Unseen, nor does He make any one acquainted with His Mysteries,- "Except an apostle whom He has chosen: and then He makes a band of watchers march before him and behind him,

وہ غیب جاننے والا ہے اپنے غائب کی باتوں پر کسی کو واقف نہیں کرتا- مگر اپنے پسندیدہ رسول کو پھراس کے آگے اور پیچھے محافظ مقرر کر دیتا ہے​

Quran Al-'Imran, 3:44

ذَ*ٰلِكَ مِنْ أَنبَاءِ الْغَيْبِ نُوحِيهِ إِلَيْكَ ۚ وَمَا كُنتَ لَدَيْهِمْ إِذْ يُلْقُونَ أَقْلَامَهُمْ أَيُّهُمْ يَكْفُلُ مَرْيَمَ وَمَا كُنتَ لَدَيْهِمْ إِذْ يَخْتَصِمُونَ
Yusuf Ali 44: This is part of the tidings of the things unseen, which We reveal unto thee (O Messenger.) by inspiration: Thou wast not with them when they cast lots with arrows, as to which of them should be charged with the care of Mary: Nor wast thou with them when they disputed (the point).

یہ غیب کی خبریں ہیں ہم بذریعہ وحی تمہیں اطلاع دیتے ہیں اورتو ان کے پاس نہیں تھا جب اپنا قلم ڈالنے لگے تھے کہ مریم کی کون پرورش کرے اور تو ان کے پاس نہیں تھا جب کہ وہ جھگڑتے تھے​

Today I know what happened with ESSA(a.s) how ADAM(a.s) and HAWA(a.s) expelled from Janat. What will happen after death.These are all news of unseen and Allah gave me this knowledge of unseen and my source is QURAN. I will never say that I have keys of Unseen because am using source and am knowing through some source

Quran:81.At-Takwir: 24

وَمَا هُوَ عَلَى الْغَيْبِ بِضَنِينٍ​

Yusuf Ali 24: Neither doth he withhold grudgingly a knowledge of the Unseen.
Shakir 24: Nor of the unseen is he a tenacious concealer.
Pickthal 24: And he is not avid of the Unseen.
Mohsin Khan: 24: And he (Muhammad صلى الله عليه وسلم) withholds not a knowledge of the Unseen.

اور وہ غیب کی باتوں پر بخیل نہیں ہے​

Quran Anaam, 165:59

وَعِندَهُ مَفَاتِحُ الْغَيْبِ لَا يَعْلَمُهَا إِلَّا هُوَ ۚ وَيَعْلَمُ مَا فِي الْبَرِّ وَالْبَحْرِ ۚ وَمَا تَسْقُطُ مِن وَرَقَةٍ إِلَّا يَعْلَمُهَا وَلَا حَبَّةٍ فِي ظُلُمَاتِ الْأَرْضِ وَلَا رَطْبٍ وَلَا يَابِسٍ إِلَّا فِي كِتَابٍ مُّبِينٍ​

Yusuf Ali 59: With Him are the keys of the unseen, the treasures that none knoweth but He. He knoweth whatever there is on the earth and in the sea. Not a leaf doth fall but with His knowledge: there is not a grain in the darkness (or depths) of the earth, nor anything fresh or dry (green or withered), but is (inscribed) in a record clear (to those who can read).

اور اسی کے پاس غیب کی کنجیاں ہیں جنہیں اس کےسوا کوئی نہیں جانتا جو کچھ جنگل اور دریا میں ہے وہ سب جانتا ہے اور کوئی پتہ نہیں گرتا مگر وہ اسے بھی جانتاہے اور کوئی دانہ زمین کے تاریک حصوں میں نہیں پڑتا اور نہ کوئی تر اور خشک چیز ہے مگر یہ سب کچھ کتاب روشن میں ہیں​

Quran,Yusuf,12:102

ذَ*ٰلِكَ مِنْ أَنبَاءِ الْغَيْبِ نُوحِيهِ إِلَيْكَ ۖ وَمَا كُنتَ لَدَيْهِمْ إِذْ أَجْمَعُوا أَمْرَهُمْ وَهُمْ يَمْكُرُونَ​

Yusuf Ali 102: Such is one of the stories of what happened unseen, which We reveal by inspiration unto thee; nor wast thou (present) with them then when they concerted their plans together in the process of weaving their plots.

یہ غیب کی خبریں کہیں جو ہم تیرے ہاں بھیجتے ہیں اور تو ان کے پاس نہیں تھا جب کہ انہوں نے اپنا ارادہ پکا کر لیا اور وہ تدبیریں کر رہے تھے​

In 81:24 ALLAH clearly said that Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم) is not the with-holder of Unseen means he (صلى الله عليه وسلم) don't have the knowledge of unseen rather I am giving him some news and some knowledge of Unseen he (صلى الله عليه وسلم) is getting his knowldege through source through Wahi.

Allah has given him (صلى الله عليه وسلم) some special limited knowledge which was unseen for Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم). Whole QURAN was totally unseen but Allah gave Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم) that unseen knowledge . Muhammad(s.a.w) source was different and our source was Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم).

Nither We nor Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم) got knowledge without any Source. Sourceless and unlimited knowledge of Unseen is only with Allah and which is real Elum e Ghaib.

Some people in Josh of "Ishq e Rasool" and in reality in hatred of some sect
do GHULU openly say that Nabi (صلى الله عليه وسلم) knwowledge was LA-MEHDOOD Limitless and his own Which is pure Shirk e Akbar


O People of the Kitaab! Do not commit ghulu' (excess) in your Deen and do not speak about Allah, but the Haqq (truth) (Surah Nisaa, 4:171)

يَا أَهْلَ الْكِتَابِ لَا تَغْلُوا فِي دِينِكُمْ وَلَا تَقُولُوا عَلَى اللَّهِ إِلَّا الْحَقَّ ۚ إِنَّمَا الْمَسِيحُ عِيسَى ابْنُ مَرْيَمَ رَسُولُ اللَّهِ وَكَلِمَتُهُ أَلْقَاهَا إِلَىٰ مَرْيَمَ وَرُوحٌ مِّنْهُ ۖ فَآمِنُوا بِاللَّهِ وَرُسُلِهِ ۖ وَلَا تَقُولُوا ثَلَاثَةٌ ۚ انتَهُوا خَيْرًا لَّكُمْ ۚ إِنَّمَا اللَّهُ إِلَـٰهٌ وَاحِدٌ ۖ سُبْحَانَهُ أَن يَكُونَ لَهُ وَلَدٌ ۘ لَّهُ مَا فِي السَّمَاوَاتِ وَمَا فِي الْأَرْضِ ۗ وَكَفَىٰ بِاللَّهِ وَكِيلًا​

Yusuf Ali 171: O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) an apostle of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His apostles. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. (Surah Nisaa, 4:171)

اے اہِل کتاب تم اپنے دین میں حد سے نہ نکلو اور الله کی شان میں سوائے پکی بات کے نہ کہو بے شک مسیح عیسیٰ مریم کا بیٹا الله کا رسول ہے اور الله کا ایک کلمہ ہےجسے الله نے مریم تک پہنچایا اور الله کی طرف سے ایک جان ہے سو الله پر اور اس کے سب رسولوں پر ایمان لاؤ اور نہ کہو کہ خدا تین ہیں اس بات کو چھوڑ دو تمہارے لیے بہتر ہو گا بے شک الله اکیلا معبود ہے وہ اس سے پاک ہے اس کی اولاد ہو اسی کا ہے جو کچھ آسمانوں میں ہے اور جو کچھ زمین میں ہے اور الله کارساز کافی ہے​

In Short

1. Allah's Knowledge is Eternal, Prophet's (صلى الله عليه وسلم) Knowledge was not eternal.
2. Allah's Knowledge Is Zaati, Prophet's (صلى الله عليه وسلم) Knowledge Is Granted (by Allah)
3. Allah's Knowledge Is Infinite, Prophet's (صلى الله عليه وسلم) Knowledge is Finite

Mr. Paksitan 1947,

You don't even know basis of comparison: COMPARE APPLE WITH APPLE

Don't compare ALLAH'S KNOWLEDGE WITH ANYONE'S KNOWLEDGE EVEN RASOOL ALLAH Sal Lallah o Waslam's knowledge.

It's lame allegation on Ahle Sunnat Wal Jamat they consider Allah's knowledge and Rasool Allah's knowledge equivalent.

NAME ANY ONE MUSLIM SCHOLAR WHO SAYS BOTH HAVE EQUIVALENT KNOWLEDGE!

What we are debating here if Rasool Allah Sal Lallah o Wasalam has Ilm e Ghaib or not!

If you can listen and see and Allah can do the same then would you consider it your seeing and listening is as equivalent to Allah!

What you have to explain WHY ALLAH CAN'T DELEGATE SUCH AUTHORITY OF ILM E GHAIB TO ANYONE!

Do you consider Rasool Allah Sal Lallah o Wasalam incapable to take such authority or you think He may misue it?

Tell us reasons as well!

Lastly about your DEFINATION OF GHAIB!

Have you read Quran?

I doubt really as in very beginning Allah says: "AL LAZINA AMINO BIL GHAIB" (Initial Ayats of Surah Baqrah)

Now I ask you: If you believe in Allah or not?

Have you seen Allah or not?

if you haven't seen Allah but still you believe it then you believe on basis of either Quran or Hadith!

Am I right?

Otherwise tell me your source to believe in Allah!

Then how come you define GHAIB is knowlege without source!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In the end I would just say that:

Aur Koi Ghaib Kiya Tum (Rasool Allah) Say Niha (Hide) Ho Bhala!

Jab Khuda Hee Na Chupa, Tum Pah Karooro Darood

 

[Knowledge Seeker]

Try to understand our beloved Prophet Muhammad pbuh with 100 part of prophetic knowledge were not given the knowledge of unseen then how these walis can claim to have the knowledge of unseen.

Our beloved Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم) did have some part of the knowledge of the unseen e.g. prophesized Ashra-e-mubashira, saw several things of the unseen during Miraj etc. even that was only from Allah.

There are some questions raised by respected members. May I request all of you to kindly go through my previous post without any bias and Insha-Allah you will find answers to your questions:

1. Allah's Knowledge is Eternal, Prophet's (صلى الله عليه وسلم) Knowledge was not eternal.
2. Allah's Knowledge Is Zaati, Prophet's (صلى الله عليه وسلم) Knowledge Is Granted (by Allah)
3. Allah's Knowledge Is Infinite, Prophet's (صلى الله عليه وسلم) Knowledge is Finite

It is good that finally, you have realized your misunderstanding about th matter and admitted that our Prophet Hadhrat Muhammad (pbuh) was given knowledge of unseen by Allah. Just to let you know the above three points which you have mentioned are agreed upon among Muslims. Actual problem arises when someone totally deny any kind of knowledge of unseen for our beloved Prophet(pbuh).

Some people in Josh of "Ishq e Rasool" and in reality in hatred of some sect

do GHULU openly say that Nabi (صلى الله عليه وسلم) knwowledge was LA-MEHDOOD Limitless and his own Which is pure Shirk e Akbar

This is your false accusation on Muslims. Ahle Sunnat Wa'al Jamaat don't believe that the knowledge of our beloved Prophet (pbuh) was limitless.

As this thread is about Kashaf of Pious person so let me know one thing:

Do you believe that concept of Kashaf is not permissible in Islam??

This is third time in this thread that I have asked you this question and I hope that you would respond this time in your own words without doing copy-paste other's writings.

 

[Pakistani1947]

It is good that finally, you have realized your misunderstanding about th matter and admitted that our Prophet Hadhrat Muhammad (pbuh) was given knowledge of unseen by Allah.

Knowledge Seeker, you are bringing the discussion back to zero!

I cant comprehend why cant you understand the clear verses of Quraan! Our beloved Prophet Muhammad pbuh were never given the knowledge of unseen. He pbuh could never know the unseen unless reveled to him pbuh via Vahi. For example when Bibi Aisha (RA) was accused he pbuh was not aware of the truth until revealed to him pbuh via Vahi. He pbuh was never independent in the knowledge of unseen.


Quran 72:26-27

عَالِمُ الْغَيْبِ فَلَا يُظْهِرُ عَلَىٰ غَيْبِهِ أَحَدًا-إِلَّا مَنِ ارْتَضَىٰ مِن رَّسُولٍ فَإِنَّهُ يَسْلُكُ مِن بَيْنِ يَدَيْهِ وَمِنْ خَلْفِهِ رَصَدًا​

Yusuf Ali 26-27: "He (alone) knows the Unseen, nor does He make any one acquainted with His Mysteries,- "Except an apostle whom He has chosen: and then He makes a band of watchers march before him and behind him,

وہ غیب جاننے والا ہے اپنے غائب کی باتوں پر کسی کو واقف نہیں کرتا- مگر اپنے پسندیدہ رسول کو پھراس کے آگے اور پیچھے محافظ مقرر کر دیتا ہے​

 

[patriot]

Say, (O Messenger), “I do not claim that I have the Treasures of God, nor do I have
the knowledge of the Unseen, nor do I tell you that I am an angel. I follow what
is revealed to me. (You blindly follow your ancestors.) Say, ”Is the blind of the​

heart the same as the seer who uses reason? Would you not reflect?

 

[babadeena]

Brother Pakistan1947,
It is wastage of time and energy, if people are NOT convinced with Quranic injunctions, then
no scripture of the earth can convince them. They have to tow their own line of thinking.
if people are determined that crow is white so let it be.

 

[Knowledge Seeker]

Knowledge Seeker, you are bringing the discussion back to zero!

Are you serious?? our discussion in this thread never took place because you didn't respond to my posts directly.this is the first time that you have quoted my post.

Our beloved Prophet Muhammad were never given the knowledge of unseen.

You are again contradicting with your previous statement. let me repeat it below.

Our beloved Prophet Muhammad (صلى الله عليه وسلم) did have some part of the knowledge of the unseen e.g. prophesized Ashra-e-mubashira, saw several things of the unseen during Miraj etc. even that was only from Allah.

Now lets discuss the remaining part of your last post.

He pbuh could never know the unseen unless reveled to him pbuh via Vahi. For example when Bibi Aisha (RA) was accused he pbuh was not aware of the truth until revealed to him pbuh via Vahi.

You agree that our beloved Prophet(pbuh) was given knowledge of Unseen via Vahi by Allah???

he pbuh was never independent in the knowledge of unseen.

Off course, when we talk about the knowledge of our beloved Prophet(pbuh), we believe that it was given by Allah.

Quran 72:26-27

عَالِمُ الْغَيْبِ فَلَا يُظْهِرُ عَلَىٰ غَيْبِهِ أَحَدًا-إِلَّا مَنِ ارْتَضَىٰ مِن رَّسُولٍ فَإِنَّهُ يَسْلُكُ مِن بَيْنِ يَدَيْهِ وَمِنْ خَلْفِهِ رَصَدًا​

Yusuf Ali 26-27: "He (alone) knows the Unseen, nor does He make any one acquainted with His Mysteries,- "Except an apostle whom He has chosen: and then He makes a band of watchers march before him and behind him,

وہ غیب جاننے والا ہے اپنے غائب کی باتوں پر کسی کو واقف نہیں کرتا- مگر اپنے پسندیدہ رسول کو پھراس کے آگے اور پیچھے محافظ مقرر کر دیتا ہے​

You have provided the verse of Quran and I hope that you must have researched about this verse before presenting it so let me know if Mufassireen from early centuries till the birth of Salafi sect have ever denied the knowledge of unseen for our beloved Prophet (pbuh) given by Allah based on this verse??

 

[Veila Mast]

Knowledge Seeker, you are bringing the discussion back to zero!

I cant comprehend why cant you understand the clear verses of Quraan! Our beloved Prophet Muhammad pbuh were never given the knowledge of unseen. He pbuh could never know the unseen unless reveled to him pbuh via Vahi. For example when Bibi Aisha (RA) was accused he pbuh was not aware of the truth until revealed to him pbuh via Vahi. He pbuh was never independent in the knowledge of unseen.


Quran 72:26-27

عَالِمُ الْغَيْبِ فَلَا يُظْهِرُ عَلَىٰ غَيْبِهِ أَحَدًا-إِلَّا مَنِ ارْتَضَىٰ مِن رَّسُولٍ فَإِنَّهُ يَسْلُكُ مِن بَيْنِ يَدَيْهِ وَمِنْ خَلْفِهِ رَصَدًا​

Yusuf Ali 26-27: "He (alone) knows the Unseen, nor does He make any one acquainted with His Mysteries,- "Except an apostle whom He has chosen: and then He makes a band of watchers march before him and behind him,

وہ غیب جاننے والا ہے اپنے غائب کی باتوں پر کسی کو واقف نہیں کرتا- مگر اپنے پسندیدہ رسول کو پھراس کے آگے اور پیچھے محافظ مقرر کر دیتا ہے​

Sahi Muslim, Book 1, Number 0206:

It is reported on the authority of Sahl b. Sa'd al-Sa'idi that there was an encounter between the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and the polytheists, and they fought (against one another). At the conclusion of the battle the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) bent his steps towards his army and they (the enemies) bent their steps towards their army. And there was a person (his name was Quzman and he was one of the hypocrites) among the Companions of the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) who did not spare a detached (fighter of the enemy) but pursued and killed him with the sword. They (the Companions of the Holy Prophet) said: None served us better today than this man Upon this the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) remarked: Verily he is one of the denizens of Fire. One of the people (Muslims) said: I will constantly shadow him. Then this man went out along with him. He halted whenever he halted, and ran along with him whenever he ran. He (the narrator) said: The man was seriously injured. He (could not stand the pain) and hastened his own death. He placed the blade of the sword on the ground with the tip between his chest and then pressed himself against the sword and killed himself. Then the man (following him) went to the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) and said: I bear testimony that verily thou art the Messenger of Allah, He (the Holy Prophet) said: What is the matter? He replied: The person about whom you just mentioned that he was one among the denizens of Fire and the people were surprised (at this) and I said to them that I would bring (the news about him) and consequently I went out in search of him till I (found him ) to be very seriously injured. He hastened his death. He placed the blade of the sword upon the ground and its tip between his chest and then pressed himself against that and killed himself. Thereupon the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) remarked: A person performs the deeds which to the people appear to be the deeds befitting the dweller of Paradise, but he is in fact one of the denizens of Hell. And verily a person does an act which in the eyes of public is one which is done by the denizens of Hell, but the person is one among the dwellers of Paradise.

What you have to say about it?

Secondly, your criticism about Hazrat Ayesha Razi Allah Tala Anha incident: May I ask you when it happened?

How long Allah took to reveal fact?

Just answer these question then I shall comment wisdom behind silence of Rasool Allah Sal Lallah o Waslam on particular issue In Sha Allah.

 

[Knowledge Seeker]

Brother Pakistan1947,
It is wastage of time and energy, if people are NOT convinced with Quranic injunctions, then
no scripture of the earth can convince them. They have to tow their own line of thinking.
if people are determined that crow is white so let it be.

Alhamdulillah, We believe in Quran but we don't let any person to play with Quran and make self made interpretation of verses of the holy Quran. Muslims have been blessed to have the teaching of our beloved Prophet(pbuh) to understand the Quran and we feel fortunate to have the valuable collection of Tafasir and books of Sunnah.

 

[Pakistani1947]

Quran 72:26-27

عَالِمُ الْغَيْبِ فَلَا يُظْهِرُ عَلَىٰ غَيْبِهِ أَحَدًا-إِلَّا مَنِ ارْتَضَىٰ مِن رَّسُولٍ فَإِنَّهُ يَسْلُكُ مِن بَيْنِ يَدَيْهِ وَمِنْ خَلْفِهِ رَصَدًا​

Yusuf Ali 26-27: "He (alone) knows the Unseen, nor does He make any one acquainted with His Mysteries,- "Except an apostle whom He has chosen: and then He makes a band of watchers march before him and behind him,

وہ غیب جاننے والا ہے اپنے غائب کی باتوں پر کسی کو واقف نہیں کرتا- مگر اپنے پسندیدہ رسول کو پھراس کے آگے اور پیچھے محافظ مقرر کر دیتا ہے​

The knowledge of the unseen wholly rests with Allah: He does not give the whole of this knowledge to anyone. The Messenger by himself is no knower of the unseen, but when Allah chooses him to perform the mission of Prophethood, He grants him the knowledge of those of the unseen truths which He is pleased to grant.

Allah does not informs about unseen to anybody including Peer, Faqeer, Darwaish, Qalander, Must or Wali. The only exception is His messengers. Allah informs His messengers, whenever He wishes, about any fact in the past, present, or future but He never delegates this ilm علم (how to know unseen independently) to anybody including His messengers.

 

[Knowledge Seeker]

Quran 72:26-27

عَالِمُ الْغَيْبِ فَلَا يُظْهِرُ عَلَىٰ غَيْبِهِ أَحَدًا-إِلَّا مَنِ ارْتَضَىٰ مِن رَّسُولٍ فَإِنَّهُ يَسْلُكُ مِن بَيْنِ يَدَيْهِ وَمِنْ خَلْفِهِ رَصَدًا​

Yusuf Ali 26-27: "He (alone) knows the Unseen, nor does He make any one acquainted with His Mysteries,- "Except an apostle whom He has chosen: and then He makes a band of watchers march before him and behind him,

وہ غیب جاننے والا ہے اپنے غائب کی باتوں پر کسی کو واقف نہیں کرتا- مگر اپنے پسندیدہ رسول کو پھراس کے آگے اور پیچھے محافظ مقرر کر دیتا ہے​

The knowledge of the unseen wholly rests with Allah: He does not give the whole of this knowledge to anyone. The Messenger by himself is no knower of the unseen, but when Allah chooses him to perform the mission of Prophethood, He grants him the knowledge of those of the unseen truths which He is pleased to grant.

Don't act like a child. if you are still confuse in this matter then do some research but don't run here and there. So now act like a gentle man and reply my last post about this verse? let me give you link of my last post again.
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?64914-%26%231587%3B%26%231575%3B%26%231574%3B%26%231606%3B%26%231587%3B-%26%231575%3B%26%231608%3B%26%231585%3B-%26%231705%3B%26%231588%3B%26%231601%3B&p=392203#post392203

 

[Pakistani1947]

Knowledge Seeker, do not be personal. I am only trying to show you the truth through verses of Quraan. Please do not divert the topic by irrelevant ideas. May Allah give you Hidayat. (Aameen)

Quran 72:26-27

عَالِمُ الْغَيْبِ فَلَا يُظْهِرُ عَلَىٰ غَيْبِهِ أَحَدًا-إِلَّا مَنِ ارْتَضَىٰ مِن رَّسُولٍ فَإِنَّهُ يَسْلُكُ مِن بَيْنِ يَدَيْهِ وَمِنْ خَلْفِهِ رَصَدًا​

Yusuf Ali 26-27: "He (alone) knows the Unseen, nor does He make any one acquainted with His Mysteries,- "Except an apostle whom He has chosen: and then He makes a band of watchers march before him and behind him,

وہ غیب جاننے والا ہے اپنے غائب کی باتوں پر کسی کو واقف نہیں کرتا- مگر اپنے پسندیدہ رسول کو پھراس کے آگے اور پیچھے محافظ مقرر کر دیتا ہے​

The knowledge of the unseen wholly rests with Allah: He does not give the whole of this knowledge to anyone. The Messenger by himself is no knower of the unseen, but when Allah chooses him to perform the mission of Prophethood, He grants him the knowledge of those of the unseen truths which He is pleased to grant.

Allah does not informs about unseen to anybody including Peer, Faqeer, Darwaish, Qalander, Must or Wali. The only exception is His messengers. Allah informs His messengers, whenever He wishes, about any fact in the past, present, or future but He never delegates this ilm علم (how to know unseen independently) to anybody including His messengers.

The Quran says in Surah Anam 6 : 50

قُل لَّا أَقُولُ لَكُمْ عِندِي خَزَائِنُ اللَّهِ وَلَا أَعْلَمُ الْغَيْبَ وَلَا أَقُولُ لَكُمْ إِنِّي مَلَكٌ ۖ إِنْ أَتَّبِعُ إِلَّا مَا يُوحَىٰ إِلَيَّ ۚ قُلْ هَلْ يَسْتَوِي الْأَعْمَىٰ وَالْبَصِيرُ ۚ أَفَلَا تَتَفَكَّرُونَ​

Yusuf Ali 50: Say: "I tell you not that with me are the treasures of Allah, nor do I know what is hidden, nor do I tell you I am an angel. I but follow what is revealed to me." Say: "can the blind be held equal to the seeing?" Will ye then consider not?

کہہ دو میں تم سے یہ نہیں کہتا کہ میرے پاس الله کے خزانے ہیں اور نہ میں غیب کا علم رکھتا ہوں اور نہ یہ کہتا ہوں کہ میں فرشتہ ہوں میں تو صرف اس وحی کی پیروی کرتا ہوں جو مجھ پر نازل کی جاتی ہے کہہ دو کیا اندھا اور آنکھوں والا دونوں برابر ہو سکتے ہیں کیا تم غور نہیں کرتے​

 

[Knowledge Seeker]

[MENTION=14588]pakistan1947[/MENTION],

You should show some courtesy to respond to my previous question regarding the subject of this thread. Let me repeat it below.I hope that you will not forget to quote the parts of my post like I did to your post in my response.

As this thread is about Kashaf of Pious person so let me know one thing:

Do you believe that concept of Kashaf is not permissible in Islam??

This is fourth time in this thread that I have asked you this question and I hope that you would respond this time in your own words without doing copy-paste other's writings.
[/SIZE]

 

[Pakistani1947]

Knowlege seeker,

Could you please provide a commentary on following clear and self explanatory verse?

The Quran says in Surah Anam 6 : 50

قُل لَّا أَقُولُ لَكُمْ عِندِي خَزَائِنُ اللَّهِ وَلَا أَعْلَمُ الْغَيْبَ وَلَا أَقُولُ لَكُمْ إِنِّي مَلَكٌ ۖ إِنْ أَتَّبِعُ إِلَّا مَا يُوحَىٰ إِلَيَّ ۚ قُلْ هَلْ يَسْتَوِي الْأَعْمَىٰ وَالْبَصِيرُ ۚ أَفَلَا تَتَفَكَّرُونَ​

Yusuf Ali 50: Say: "I tell you not that with me are the treasures of Allah, nor do I know what is hidden, nor do I tell you I am an angel. I but follow what is revealed to me." Say: "can the blind be held equal to the seeing?" Will ye then consider not?

کہہ دو میں تم سے یہ نہیں کہتا کہ میرے پاس الله کے خزانے ہیں اور نہ میں غیب کا علم رکھتا ہوں اور نہ یہ کہتا ہوں کہ میں فرشتہ ہوں میں تو صرف اس وحی کی پیروی کرتا ہوں جو مجھ پر نازل کی جاتی ہے کہہ دو کیا اندھا اور آنکھوں والا دونوں برابر ہو سکتے ہیں کیا تم غور نہیں کرتے​

 

[Knowledge Seeker]

Knowledge Seeker, do not be personal. I am only trying to show you the truth through verses of Quraan. Please do not divert the topic by irrelevant ideas. May Allah give you Hidayat. (Aameen)

Again you are running here and there. Respond to my posts properly if you can? otherwise don't waste my time. I had already told you not to play with the verses of Quran by doing your own self made interpretations. If you don't have proper understanding of this subject then please don't be hard on you.

 

[Knowledge Seeker]

Knowlege seeker,

Could you please provide a commentary on following clear and self explanatory verse?

The Quran says in Surah Anam 6 : 50

قُل لَّا أَقُولُ لَكُمْ عِندِي خَزَائِنُ اللَّهِ وَلَا أَعْلَمُ الْغَيْبَ وَلَا أَقُولُ لَكُمْ إِنِّي مَلَكٌ ۖ إِنْ أَتَّبِعُ إِلَّا مَا يُوحَىٰ إِلَيَّ ۚ قُلْ هَلْ يَسْتَوِي الْأَعْمَىٰ وَالْبَصِيرُ ۚ أَفَلَا تَتَفَكَّرُونَ​

Yusuf Ali 50: Say: "I tell you not that with me are the treasures of Allah, nor do I know what is hidden, nor do I tell you I am an angel. I but follow what is revealed to me." Say: "can the blind be held equal to the seeing?" Will ye then consider not?

کہہ دو میں تم سے یہ نہیں کہتا کہ میرے پاس الله کے خزانے ہیں اور نہ میں غیب کا علم رکھتا ہوں اور نہ یہ کہتا ہوں کہ میں فرشتہ ہوں میں تو صرف اس وحی کی پیروی کرتا ہوں جو مجھ پر نازل کی جاتی ہے کہہ دو کیا اندھا اور آنکھوں والا دونوں برابر ہو سکتے ہیں کیا تم غور نہیں کرتے​

This is not the way to do discussion. First you reply to my questions in last posts and I promise you to provide you education about this verse of Holy Quran as per your wish. Now try to be gentleman and respond to my last posts properly.

 

[Pakistani1947]

Again you are running here and there. Respond to my posts properly if you can? otherwise don't waste my time. I had already told you not to play with the verses of Quran by doing your own self made interpretations. If you are don't have proper understanding of this subject then please don't be hard on you.

Dear Knowledge Seeker, Please do not be offended, but I really do not want to engage in debate which is irrelevant to the topic. Please stick to clear verses of Quraan on this topic.

Could you please provide a commentary on following clear and self explanatory verse?


Surah Araf 7 : 188 says

قُل لَّا أَمْلِكُ لِنَفْسِي نَفْعًا وَلَا ضَرًّا إِلَّا مَا شَاءَ اللَّهُ ۚ وَلَوْ كُنتُ أَعْلَمُ الْغَيْبَ لَاسْتَكْثَرْتُ مِنَ الْخَيْرِ وَمَا مَسَّنِيَ السُّوءُ ۚ إِنْ أَنَا إِلَّا نَذِيرٌ وَبَشِيرٌ لِّقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ​

Yusuf Ali 188: Say: "I have no power over any good or harm to myself except as Allah willeth. If I had knowledge of the unseen, I should have multiplied all good, and no evil should have touched me: I am but a warner, and a bringer of glad tidings to those who have faith."

کہہ دو میں اپنی ذات کے نفع و نقصان کا بھی مالک نہیں مگرجو الله چاہے اور اگر میں غیب کی بات جان سکتا تو بہت کچھ بھلائیاں حاصل کر لیتا اور مجھے تکلیف نہ پہنچتی میں تو محض ڈرانے والا اور خوشخبری دینے والا ہوں ان لوگوں کو جو ایمان دار ہیں​

 

[Knowledge Seeker]

Dear Knowledge Seeker, Please do not be offended, but I really do not want to engage in debate which is irrelevant to the topic. Please stick to clear verses of Quraan on this topic.

There is nothing irrelevant so far and if you will respond to my last posts you will notice that we will be on our subject in this thread so don't try to run away now. If you can not engage in discussions then avoid bringing sectarian differences in threads.

Could you please provide a commentary on following clear and self explanatory verse?

I had already promised you in my last post and I assure you again that when you will reply to my questions in last posts, I will definitely educate you about this verse or any other verse of Quran.

 

[Veila Mast]

Quran 72:26-27

عَالِمُ الْغَيْبِ فَلَا يُظْهِرُ عَلَىٰ غَيْبِهِ أَحَدًا-إِلَّا مَنِ ارْتَضَىٰ مِن رَّسُولٍ فَإِنَّهُ يَسْلُكُ مِن بَيْنِ يَدَيْهِ وَمِنْ خَلْفِهِ رَصَدًا​

Yusuf Ali 26-27: "He (alone) knows the Unseen, nor does He make any one acquainted with His Mysteries,- "Except an apostle whom He has chosen: and then He makes a band of watchers march before him and behind him,

وہ غیب جاننے والا ہے اپنے غائب کی باتوں پر کسی کو واقف نہیں کرتا- مگر اپنے پسندیدہ رسول کو پھراس کے آگے اور پیچھے محافظ مقرر کر دیتا ہے​

The knowledge of the unseen wholly rests with Allah: He does not give the whole of this knowledge to anyone. The Messenger by himself is no knower of the unseen, but when Allah chooses him to perform the mission of Prophethood, He grants him the knowledge of those of the unseen truths which He is pleased to grant.

Allah does not informs about unseen to anybody including Peer, Faqeer, Darwaish, Qalander, Must or Wali. The only exception is His messengers. Allah informs His messengers, whenever He wishes, about any fact in the past, present, or future but He never delegates this ilm علم (how to know unseen independently) to anybody including His messengers.

The Ayat you quoted and conclusion you have drawn are not matching!

You are agreeing on partial Ilm e Ghaib of Rasool Allah Sal Lallaho Wasalam but Ayat doesn't tell this!

Allah simply tells that Allah may grant Ilm e Ghaib to Ambiya but doesn't say how much is being awarded!

Now you have taken topic to new horizon as:

Define "Kul"!

We shall take this debate further then, as you are aware of fact Allah is Qadir on EVERY THING but if I ask you possibility of lie then definitely you will deny!

Am I right?

Then you have to eliminate lie from "KUL"!

Now please define KUL for Ghaib!

 

[Pakistani1947]

Dear knowledge seeker,

I can understand you being cautious and avoiding denying following clear verses of Quraan, where it is clearly mentioned that our beloved Prophet Muhammad pbuh did not know ilm-e-Ghaib (the knowledge of unseen without any source).

It is better to stay quiet for you rather than trying to give false meaning to following verses.


Surah Araf 7 : 188 says

قُل لَّا أَمْلِكُ لِنَفْسِي نَفْعًا وَلَا ضَرًّا إِلَّا مَا شَاءَ اللَّهُ ۚ وَلَوْ كُنتُ أَعْلَمُ الْغَيْبَ لَاسْتَكْثَرْتُ مِنَ الْخَيْرِ وَمَا مَسَّنِيَ السُّوءُ ۚ إِنْ أَنَا إِلَّا نَذِيرٌ وَبَشِيرٌ لِّقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ​

Yusuf Ali 188: Say: "I have no power over any good or harm to myself except as Allah willeth. If I had knowledge of the unseen, I should have multiplied all good, and no evil should have touched me: I am but a warner, and a bringer of glad tidings to those who have faith."

کہہ دو میں اپنی ذات کے نفع و نقصان کا بھی مالک نہیں مگرجو الله چاہے اور اگر میں غیب کی بات جان سکتا تو بہت کچھ بھلائیاں حاصل کر لیتا اور مجھے تکلیف نہ پہنچتی میں تو محض ڈرانے والا اور خوشخبری دینے والا ہوں ان لوگوں کو جو ایمان دار ہیں​

The Quran says in Surah Anam 6 : 50

قُل لَّا أَقُولُ لَكُمْ عِندِي خَزَائِنُ اللَّهِ وَلَا أَعْلَمُ الْغَيْبَ وَلَا أَقُولُ لَكُمْ إِنِّي مَلَكٌ ۖ إِنْ أَتَّبِعُ إِلَّا مَا يُوحَىٰ إِلَيَّ ۚ قُلْ هَلْ يَسْتَوِي الْأَعْمَىٰ وَالْبَصِيرُ ۚ أَفَلَا تَتَفَكَّرُونَ​

Yusuf Ali 50: Say: "I tell you not that with me are the treasures of Allah, nor do I know what is hidden, nor do I tell you I am an angel. I but follow what is revealed to me." Say: "can the blind be held equal to the seeing?" Will ye then consider not?

کہہ دو میں تم سے یہ نہیں کہتا کہ میرے پاس الله کے خزانے ہیں اور نہ میں غیب کا علم رکھتا ہوں اور نہ یہ کہتا ہوں کہ میں فرشتہ ہوں میں تو صرف اس وحی کی پیروی کرتا ہوں جو مجھ پر نازل کی جاتی ہے کہہ دو کیا اندھا اور آنکھوں والا دونوں برابر ہو سکتے ہیں کیا تم غور نہیں کرتے​