dear username, I have studied the quran for a very long time and beyond the level of people I came across in my life time. I know what I am talking about and it should become very clear to anyone with knowledge who will take the time to go through the information I have posted in the links provided and in my other posts. I have tried to explain to people how they should study the quran and why they need to do that. Anyone is welcome to challenge what I have explained and put forth a better explanation of things. Just saying islam is this or that is meaningless because proof of the pudding is in the eating.
I want people to challenge the quran and deen of islam by first proving they have what it takes to make sense of the text of the quran. If they had what it takes to make sense of the quran and deen of islam then they could not have made statements against the quran and deen of islam based upon their utter ignorance about them. Humanity is not doomed but many people are who do not use their God given brains and senses as they should. That is why they make things difficult and hard for themselves as well as others. If you have any time on your hands then please do go through the links and see what you think about the quran and deen of islam or pakistan afterwards. We are all doomed no matter what we think and do should we ignore the message of God by not studying it properly and not following it faithfully. It is because none of us can know who created us and for what purpose or how can we fulfil the purpose for which our creator has created us unless the creator himself tells us all this. Revelation itself means nothing till people enable themselves to get it and then get on with making proper sense of it. Things do not end there rather people then need to act upon what they have been advised to think or do. Unless we complete this process we human beings can never get out of confusion and crisis that we have created for ourselves.
What people do is follow self created ideas about God instead of trying to know what God has to say about all that is going on. This is why every where people are asking God for favours instead of doing what he requires of them so that his purpose for creating people becomes fulfilled. The more people stay away from proper understanding of his message or following it faithfully the more troubled humanity becomes by thinking and doing things as they like.
Most of us human beings think the more we humiliate ourselves before God the more God will become pleased with us and will do things for us ie he will carry out our wishes and desires. We are not trying to realise that humiliating humanity means disrespecting God. It is because human being is supposed to be the best creation of God ie his masterpiece. If his masterpiece is looked down upon then how can God manifest his glory for people to see? Deen of islam is very different from what we are told by mullahs and their blind followers. They are a disgrace for humanity the way they are carrying on ie misinterpreting and misrepresenting message of God thereby humiliating humanity as well as disrespecting God. The very same is true about philosophers and scientists because they too instead of reading the quran themselves to make proper sense of it argue against the quran on basis of what mullahs make of it due to their ignorance. The true discussion between people can only take place when people discussing the quran study the quran by themselves and draw their own conclusions about it after enabling themselves to be able to do so. As I see it this sort of situation is yet far away due to mindsets, attitudes and behaviours people have adopted regarding the quran and deen of islam. Most of the muslims are muslims only for name sake and they have no idea what the message of the quran is. Likewise people whom we consider highly educated are not educated to the level needed for proper understanding of the quran and deen of islam. When they are their thinking will not be very different from mine because logical consistency has to be the very basis for proper understanding of the information found in the quran.
So far any philosophers or scientists I came across their thinking seemed to me heavily affected by their religious up bringing. That is like looking at things through coloured glasses. Till we shed religious mindsets, attitudes and behaviours we can never understand the quran properly therefore we cannot know deen of islam properly or follow it faithfully. However some people have told us some good points about the quran and deen of islam just like some have told us some good points about this universe. So we should accept what is right because it is logically consistent and makes sense and reject what is wrong because it is logically inconsistent and keep on studying both the universe and the revelation to get to the proper understanding of things.
Deen of islam is not a personality cult this is why the quran does not tell us to follow people blindly be they messengers of God because human beings could make mistakes. This is why the standard is revelation of God not any particular person. This is clear proof that deen of islam is very different from religious concepts people hold about God and the universe or its realities. It is good that you have studied what mullahs say about the universal realities and the quran or islam as well as what philosophers and scientists say about them but see what I say about all these things and people and why I do so. Only then you will come to realise why I hold the views that I do.
regards and all the best.
Dear Mughal1,
Its a great coincidence that I'm also Mughal by caste.
Some of your points are absolutely on spot. I dont disagree with you on those points.
So far any philosophers or scientists I came across their thinking seemed to me heavily affected by their religious up bringing.
This is absolutely right but story goes beyond it. I try to summarize it in this simple equation:
A Man = Schooling + Childhood + Friends + Family + Society + Higher Education + Natural Intelligence + Aptitude
In this equation first four factors shape up our religious thoughts. Philosophers are no exception. Factor of society, specially in form of Media, determine the intensity of our behavior. How radicalized or tolerant we are.
But Higher Education and Natural Intelligence are the real factors that make a difference. Education and Natural Intelligence helps us snub the biases that Society and Religion have inculcated in us. At this level, you cannot the blame Philosophers for being "heavily" affected by their Religions and Background. Of course, though, Philosophers are no Utopians. They're only human beings. But we know that their prime stimuli are Reason and Logic and not Religion or other forms of "deity".
I'd like to strongly disagree with you on the point that Mullah has misunderstood Religion. NO, they havnt. They adhere to the basic teachings of their Religions. They uphold the convention. They dont question. They've succumbed to the absoluteness of the religion. They've murdered their conscience. They've submitted.
Then there's people like you who just cannot succumb, submit, or who have a more powerful conscience. You dont wanna shut your eyes from the injustices and miseries inflected upon Humanity by Religions.
On this point you feel helpless, shocked. You cannot beieve that a religion with whom you had had a great romance, says all these "inhuman" things. Orders killings. You dont wanna believe that what you've read about the Early Folks of a Religion is actually true but it hurts your conscience. Your romance. Your ego.
Like few days ago I wrote about Bilal bin Rabah killed his former boss for personal vendetta, when the Boss was unarmed, had surrendered, dint even fight, was taken prisoner by another Sahabi. I wrote it with references. Ibn Ishaq. Sahih Bukhari.
BUT... Instead of appreciating me for bringing forth a forgotten Truth, I was told to shut up. WHY?
Because that event hurt these people's romance with Bilal. They couldnt believe he had actually murdered someone in that state. They were shocked.
This contradiction in perceived truth about Bilal and real truth about Bilal led people to "make up" different excuses to justify his act. You can read those excuses in my thread.
This example can very well be generalized. When people come to know of things done by the Religious Figure they followed or had a romance with, they tend to come up with excuses, justifications, reasons, and whatever they can come up with to cling to the same portrait of the person they'd been worshiping since childhood. They dont want the image of the person shatter. They dont wanna let go something they'd been cherishing whole their life, no matter how big a fallacy that something is.
Mullah follows the real Islam. PEOPLE DONT. People wanna keep their conscience clear and in order to do so, they generally come up with this excuse "O' its Mullah who's at fault. Its not Islam"
"O' yea its Mullah who's ruined our Religion"
"Damn this Mullah. He knows nothing about Islam"
NO. Mullah knows. You dont. You just dont wanna accept the reality. I have read Islam. And i dont see any major contradiction between Real Islam and Mulla's Islam. But i see a great of contradiction between Perception of Islam and Real Islam.
Take for example the case of Qadri
Qadri killed Salman. He dint kill him for personal gain. Qadri's motivation was purely religious. Countless people condemned Qadri and claimed that Islam does not grant the right to kill fellow human beings on the charges of Blasphemy. You know what, they are wrong.
Umar had killed a man because he dint trust Prophet's judgement and Umar thought it was Blasphemy. Prophet SAW dint not hold Umar accountable for that murder as He SAW dint not hold Bilal accountable for his murder. Silence of Prophet SAW is considered a sign of Approval.
How was Qadri wrong, in this context?
But of course it was an act of cold blooded planned murder. People who had a clear conscience, cried out. At the same time they felt themselves stuck in a dilemma.
On one hand they just couldnt digest this murder and on the other hand they dint wanna refute Islam either.. SO what to do?
They chose to do what they often do. They blamed Mullah for all this. They simply refuted the fact that Islam grants the permission to kill fellow human beings for Blasphemy charges.
"سانپ بھی مر جائے' لاٹھی بھی نہ ٹوٹے"
Islam is against idolatry. But trust me Muslims are the biggest Idolaters in the World. They've made idols of every single person attached to Islam and then they keep worshiping them. If somebody wanna come forward and breaks those idols with the axe of reality and facts, People run to kill that person.
Its not Mullah who has misunderstood Islam. Its people who dont wanna their conscience clear and hence refuse to accept that Islam is actually up to all that.
