World Bank sets tough loan terms

[RajaRawal111]

Yeah whatever raja bhai, I’m just happy that you finally agreed that the tribune article I posted which stated how PMLN screwed up the economy is credible ?

Raja knows they screwed up badly but he would lose face to admit it.

Okay You two wise Guys ---
ایک آرٹیکل پڑھ کر وختہ پایا ہوا ہے تم لوگوں نے -تو یہ لو اگلی کہانی

I am giving you apple to apple figures to compare. This is the summary of your article from your article

National Output

Pakistan GDP Annual Growth Rate

The Gross Domestic Product (GDP) in Pakistan contracted 0.17 percent in the fourth quarter of 2023 over the same quarter of the previous year. This page provides - Pakistan GDP Annual Growth Rate - actual values, historical data, forecast, chart, statistics, economic calendar and news.

tradingeconomics.com

Unemployment rate
Highest in the country's history today.

Pakistan - Unemployment rate 2022 | Statista

In 2022, the unemployment rate in Pakistan was at approximately 6.42 percent, a slight increase from 6.34 percent the previous year.

www.statista.com

Health expenditure: Today it is 50% of what PMLN was spending
PMLN 54 billion Rs today it is 25 billion Rs ---Sharm aani chahiye

Health budget up by 80% in budget for fiscal year 2017-18 | The Express Tribune

Govt allocates Rs54.4b for health ministry; Rs7.63b for capital

tribune.com.pk

Budget 2020-21: Rs 25.50 billion allocated for health

ISLAMABAD: The PTI-led federal government has presented a budget for the financial year 2020-21 in which the health budget has

mmnews.tv

Country total debt

Highest in country's history.

Pakistan External Debt, 2006 – 2022 | CEIC Data

Pakistan External Debt reached 126.9 USD bn in Sep 2022, compared with 130.2 USD bn in the previous quarter. Pakistan External Debt: USD mn data is updated quarterly, available from Jun 2006 to Sep 2022.

www.ceicdata.com

Exports:

Are better than 2016-17 but lower than 2015

Pakistan Exports 1960-2024

Exports of goods and services represent the value of all goods and other market services provided to the rest of the world. They include the value of merchandise, freight, insurance, transport, travel, royalties, license fees, and other services, such as communication, construction, financial...

www.macrotrends.net

 

[Will_Bite]

Okay It is true I was heart. But I did not pick on your location of living. I just told you that if you are something big in economics then come and pull your donkey out of the mud. I never said overseas Pakistanis are not contributing to this society. I only say that you people are not getting the brunt which People in the streets are bearing.
Anyways I am sorry for being mean. We should stick with the facts which can be proven in black and white.

I may have my opinions about economy, but I don't claim to be an expert in economics. I can however see when things are headed in the right direction.
Overseas Pakistanis do contribute in more ways than just money. And we do bear the brunt as well.....that brunt usually starts at the airports. In any case, we are not here to count. Pakistan is a common cause for us all.

 

[surfer]

Okay You two wise Guys ---
ایک آرٹیکل پڑھ کر وختہ پایا ہوا ہے تم لوگوں نے -تو یہ لو اگلی کہانی

I am giving you apple to apple figures to compare. This is the summary of your article from your article

National Output

Pakistan GDP Annual Growth Rate

The Gross Domestic Product (GDP) in Pakistan contracted 0.17 percent in the fourth quarter of 2023 over the same quarter of the previous year. This page provides - Pakistan GDP Annual Growth Rate - actual values, historical data, forecast, chart, statistics, economic calendar and news.

tradingeconomics.com

Unemployment rate
Highest in the country's history today.

Pakistan - Unemployment rate 2022 | Statista

In 2022, the unemployment rate in Pakistan was at approximately 6.42 percent, a slight increase from 6.34 percent the previous year.

www.statista.com

Health expenditure: Today it is 50% of what PMLN was spending
PMLN 54 billion Rs today it is 25 billion Rs ---Sharm aani chahiye

Health budget up by 80% in budget for fiscal year 2017-18 | The Express Tribune

Govt allocates Rs54.4b for health ministry; Rs7.63b for capital

tribune.com.pk

Budget 2020-21: Rs 25.50 billion allocated for health

ISLAMABAD: The PTI-led federal government has presented a budget for the financial year 2020-21 in which the health budget has

mmnews.tv

Country total debt

Highest in country's history.

Pakistan External Debt, 2006 – 2022 | CEIC Data

Pakistan External Debt reached 126.9 USD bn in Sep 2022, compared with 130.2 USD bn in the previous quarter. Pakistan External Debt: USD mn data is updated quarterly, available from Jun 2006 to Sep 2022.

www.ceicdata.com

Exports:

Are better than 2016-17 but lower than 2015

Pakistan Exports 1960-2024

Exports of goods and services represent the value of all goods and other market services provided to the rest of the world. They include the value of merchandise, freight, insurance, transport, travel, royalties, license fees, and other services, such as communication, construction, financial...

www.macrotrends.net

Excellent work raja bhai. Great examples of the pick and choose technique

but like I said yesterday you can’t compare 4 years against 2.75 years, wait another year and a half for Apple to Apple ?

in any case you have missed the jist of that express tribune article

for example, why were PMLN already thinking of going to IMF during thier own tenure?

“A team of Finance Ministry and SBP officials is already in the United States to raise between $2 billion and $3 billion from the debt markets by floating sovereign bonds aimed at creating some space till the time a new programme is negotiated with the IMF, sources said.”

and if PMLN.we’re such a success story, why was Dar kicked out after 4 years? Or did he run away himself? Why are the leaders of PMLN such cowards anyway? I mean they talk a good game but when push comes to shove you always find them walking around Mayfair ?

 

[Hate_Nooras]

Okay You two wise Guys ---
ایک آرٹیکل پڑھ کر وختہ پایا ہوا ہے تم لوگوں نے -تو یہ لو اگلی کہانی

I am giving you apple to apple figures to compare. This is the summary of your article from your article

National Output

Pakistan GDP Annual Growth Rate

The Gross Domestic Product (GDP) in Pakistan contracted 0.17 percent in the fourth quarter of 2023 over the same quarter of the previous year. This page provides - Pakistan GDP Annual Growth Rate - actual values, historical data, forecast, chart, statistics, economic calendar and news.

tradingeconomics.com

Unemployment rate
Highest in the country's history today.

Pakistan - Unemployment rate 2022 | Statista

In 2022, the unemployment rate in Pakistan was at approximately 6.42 percent, a slight increase from 6.34 percent the previous year.

www.statista.com

Health expenditure: Today it is 50% of what PMLN was spending
PMLN 54 billion Rs today it is 25 billion Rs ---Sharm aani chahiye

Health budget up by 80% in budget for fiscal year 2017-18 | The Express Tribune

Govt allocates Rs54.4b for health ministry; Rs7.63b for capital

tribune.com.pk

Budget 2020-21: Rs 25.50 billion allocated for health

ISLAMABAD: The PTI-led federal government has presented a budget for the financial year 2020-21 in which the health budget has

mmnews.tv

Country total debt

Highest in country's history.

Pakistan External Debt, 2006 – 2022 | CEIC Data

Pakistan External Debt reached 126.9 USD bn in Sep 2022, compared with 130.2 USD bn in the previous quarter. Pakistan External Debt: USD mn data is updated quarterly, available from Jun 2006 to Sep 2022.

www.ceicdata.com

Exports:

Are better than 2016-17 but lower than 2015

Pakistan Exports 1960-2024

Exports of goods and services represent the value of all goods and other market services provided to the rest of the world. They include the value of merchandise, freight, insurance, transport, travel, royalties, license fees, and other services, such as communication, construction, financial...

www.macrotrends.net

Raja sahib you lie for a living Just a couple of gems. Firstly, explain why Exports dropped to 23 and imports increased to 63 and explain how this was funded. Tell me how these high imports impacted economic activity and how this was sustainable. I asked you before about how the gap of 40bn was going to be funded and you said as the Nooras have done it before, tell me how did they fund it? Because when I asked you to explain you ran away.

 

[RajaRawal111]

Excellent work raja bhai. Great examples of the pick and choose technique

but like I said yesterday you can’t compare 4 years against 2.75 years, wait another year and a half for Apple to Apple ?

in any case you have missed the jist of that express tribune article

for example, why were PMLN already thinking of going to IMF during thier own tenure?

“A team of Finance Ministry and SBP officials is already in the United States to raise between $2 billion and $3 billion from the debt markets by floating sovereign bonds aimed at creating some space till the time a new programme is negotiated with the IMF, sources said.”

and if PMLN.we’re such a success story, why was Dar kicked out after 4 years? Or did he run away himself? Why are the leaders of PMLN such cowards anyway? I mean they talk a good game but when push comes to shove you always find them walking around Mayfair ?

To answer your question I will only say that I am not a Najoomi to say what PMLN was going to do. But what I learned from the news sources was that we had a steady growth in the Revenues collection by FBR. Pick up any source of data you will find that we has a steady rise of the FBR collections from 2012 to 2018. It was doubled from 2012 (2560 bl rs) to 5228 billion Rs in 2018. This steady growth was without any major shocks of inflation. And this was only the collection from inside which was a sign of a growing rising internal economy.

Then the selectors of IKs started shaking the roots of a strong Govt which was about to become stronger with its deliverance. Then we were bestowed by Laeeq Faaeq Imran khan and Assad Umar and our internal Rev collection came nose down because we shut everything down to tackle our CAD. Allah Allah Kher Sallah.
What happened afterwords is what your ""new the best FM Shoukat Tareen"" said was "Bera Ghuraq" ?

 

[RajaRawal111]

Raja sahib you lie for a living Just a couple of gems. Firstly, explain why Exports dropped to 23 and imports increased to 63 and explain how this was funded. Tell me how these high imports impacted economic activity and how this was sustainable. I asked you before about how the gap of 40bn was going to be funded and you said as the Nooras have done it before, tell me how did they fund it? Because when I asked you to explain you ran away.

I dont know where i lied. I had given you references along with what had written.
Why exports went down seriously I am not sure. Most likely Most likey it was Dars artificial manipulation of dollars (which i admit was quite stupid).
Now your exports a bit up only because you have hired dada jee of Ishaq dar who have over deflated Rs. and your product is cheaper and we don't have competition from Bangladesh and India. I sincerely wish that the markets we have captured due to the absence of competition, stay with us once they come out after their fight with Covid.

And for your GAP of 40 billion of CAD. you must know that we are a huge population of 220 million people which makes us a consumer society. The CAD was made plus artificially by IK and now it is minus again just because of imports of Ata and Cheeni which we were sufficient with at the time of Choors

 

[Hate_Nooras]

I dont know where i lied. I had given you references along with what had written.
Why exports went down seriously I am not sure. Most likely Most likey it was Dars artificial manipulation of dollars (which i admit was quite stupid).
Now your exports a bit up only because you have hired dada jee of Ishaq dar who have over deflated Rs. and your product is cheaper and we don't have competition from Bangladesh and India. I sincerely wish that the markets we have captured due to the absence of competition, stay with us once they come out after their fight with Covid.

And for your GAP of 40 billion of CAD. you must know that we are a huge population of 220 million people which makes us a consumer society. The CAD was made plus artificially by IK and now it is minus again just because of imports of Ata and Cheeni which we were sufficient with at the time of Choors

Dar crooked reign made mistakes of historic proportions. For that alone the Nooras should never ever come back to power.
The problem with destroying your industry is that it takes years to rebuild and in some cases it can't be built.
You can keep saying artificially but the question to you is how do you pay for the imports. You said to me previously that the Nooras would have bridged the Foreign currency gap as they had done before, so tell me wise one what did they do? Was it sustainable. I await your response

 

[Hate_Nooras]

To answer your question I will only say that I am not a Najoomi to say what PMLN was going to do. But what I learned from the news sources was that we had a steady growth in the Revenues collection by FBR. Pick up any source of data you will find that we has a steady rise of the FBR collections from 2012 to 2018. It was doubled from 2012 (2560 bl rs) to 5228 billion Rs in 2018. This steady growth was without any major shocks of inflation. And this was only the collection from inside which was a sign of a growing rising internal economy.

Then the selectors of IKs started shaking the roots of a strong Govt which was about to become stronger with its deliverance. Then we were bestowed by Laeeq Faaeq Imran khan and Assad Umar and our internal Rev collection came nose down because we shut everything down to tackle our CAD. Allah Allah Kher Sallah.
What happened afterwords is what your ""new the best FM Shoukat Tareen"" said was "Bera Ghuraq" ?

How much of the rise in the FBR takings was the import duties with the record Imports.

 

[surfer]

To answer your question I will only say that I am not a Najoomi to say what PMLN was going to do. But what I learned from the news sources was that we had a steady growth in the Revenues collection by FBR. Pick up any source of data you will find that we has a steady rise of the FBR collections from 2012 to 2018. It was doubled from 2012 (2560 bl rs) to 5228 billion Rs in 2018. This steady growth was without any major shocks of inflation. And this was only the collection from inside which was a sign of a growing rising internal economy.

Then the selectors of IKs started shaking the roots of a strong Govt which was about to become stronger with its deliverance. Then we were bestowed by Laeeq Faaeq Imran khan and Assad Umar and our internal Rev collection came nose down because we shut everything down to tackle our CAD. Allah Allah Kher Sallah.
What happened afterwords is what your ""new the best FM Shoukat Tareen"" said was "Bera Ghuraq" ?

Er no, you didn’t answer my questions - in fact you completely avoided them - for example -
1) why were PMLN admitting in 2017 that we will need to go to IMF?
2) why did they fire Dar after 4 years?

But it’s ok, I understand if you can’t answer, they very difficult questions ?

 

[RajaRawal111]

Dar crooked reign made mistakes of historic proportions. For that alone the Nooras should never ever come back to power.
The problem with destroying your industry is that it takes years to rebuild and in some cases it can't be built.
You can keep saying artificially but the question to you is how do you pay for the imports. You said to me previously that the Nooras would have bridged the Foreign currency gap as they had done before, so tell me wise one what did they do? Was it sustainable. I await your response

You Know the exports are not just dependent on the good-looking face of your PM. They depend
a) upon the Quality of your product and its cost
b) Preferential treatment you get from other countries.

We started Suffering right from the day we refused to get involved in Yaman War. Nawaz chor suffered and now your IK is suffering. 2nd hit we got was due to CPEC which was and still is being looked as a threat to words financial balance. Obviously, you will get some preferential treatment when you will hit CPEC and budge to IMF. I don't think it is difficult to understand. Trade imbalance does hurt us I never refused that reality ever. But I will never accept it to reduce abruptly it at the cost of killing the internal economy which employees you. This is what Tareen also said last week.

Look at the result of this artificial step of IK. Trade balance stayed Plus only for 4 months now it is minus again and the gap is growing again from last three months.

 

[RajaRawal111]

Er no, you didn’t answer my questions - in fact you completely avoided them - for example -
1) why were PMLN admitting in 2017 that we will need to go to IMF?
2) why did they fire Dar after 4 years?

But it’s ok, I understand if you can’t answer, they very difficult questions ?

1) Sir I never heard it from PMLN in 2017 that they have to go to IMF. If one statement of Ahsan Iqbal is being manipulated as a policy statement, then it is your point of view.
2) I think Dar was not fired, he left because he knew (like NS) they are rounding him up to use him just like they used him at time of Musharraf. They could associate some false statements with him again. So he ran away like a coward ? (You can say like NS)

 

[Hate_Nooras]

You Know the exports are not just dependent on the good-looking face of your PM. They depend
a) upon the Quality of your product and its cost
b) Preferential treatment you get from other countries.

We started Suffering right from the day we refused to get involved in Yaman War. Nawaz chor suffered and now your IK is suffering. 2nd hit we got was due to CPEC which was and still is being looked as a threat to words financial balance. Obviously, you will get some preferential treatment when you will hit CPEC and budge to IMF. I don't think it is difficult to understand. Trade imbalance does hurt us I never refused that reality ever. But I will never accept it to reduce abruptly it at the cost of killing the internal economy which employees you. This is what Tareen also said last week.

Look at the result of this artificial step of IK. Trade balance stayed Plus only for 4 months now it is minus again and the gap is growing again from last three months.

And they are dependent on a competitive currency. The stupidity of Noora policy of making exports more expensive by around 30% by some estimates and imports cheaper by something similar so that you could launder money to Foreign lands at a good rate deserves hanging.

The trade imbalance is the reason why we are in this mess, if you can't pay for imports other than by borrowing, which by the way you won't admit to but is what you alluded to before you realised you was going to get cornered about the reasons for Nooras borrowing 37 and the PPP doing pretty much the same can only lead to bankruptcy.
BTW the 113bn you said was PTIs borrowing is wrong. Maybe you can look at the comments of AI and find out why?

 

[Hate_Nooras]

1) Sir I never heard it from PMLN in 2017 that they have to go to IMF. If one statement of Ahsan Iqbal is being manipulated as a policy statement, then it is your point of view.
2) I think Dar was not fired, he left because he knew (like NS) they are rounding him up to use him just like they used him at time of Musharraf. They could associate some false statements with him again. So he ran away like a coward ? (You can say like NS)

Why is it one statement of AI, other Nooras have said the same. Did you not follow what was happening at the time. PKs economy didn't start with IK. The mess is yours and it will take years to clear up.

 

[RajaRawal111]

And they are dependent on a competitive currency. The stupidity of Noora policy of making exports more expensive by around 30% by some estimates and imports cheaper by something similar so that you could launder money to Foreign lands at a good rate deserves hanging.

The trade imbalance is the reason why we are in this mess, if you can't pay for imports other than by borrowing, which by the way you won't admit to but is what you alluded to before you realised you was going to get cornered about the reasons for Nooras borrowing 37 and the PPP doing pretty much the same can only lead to bankruptcy.
BTW the 113bn you said was PTIs borrowing is wrong. Maybe you can look at the comments of AI and find out why?

I agree with this. But know from the fact that Trade balance was actually never zero or Pluss in your IK times as well. It was a manipulation just like Dar's currency manipulation.

 

[RajaRawal111]

Why is it one statement of AI, other Nooras have said the same. Did you not follow what was happening at the time. PKs economy didn't start with IK. The mess is yours and it will take years to clear up.

Noonis will clear it up Insaha Allah with there Task-driven team ? ?

 

[surfer]

1) Sir I never heard it from PMLN in 2017 that they have to go to IMF. If one statement of Ahsan Iqbal is being manipulated as a policy statement, then it is your point of view.
2) I think Dar was not fired, he left because he knew (like NS) they are rounding him up to use him just like they used him at time of Musharraf. They could associate some false statements with him again. So he ran away like a coward ? (You can say like NS)

What did Ahsan Iqbal say? I’m talking about the 2017 tribune article which quotes PMLN sources (off the record), and around that time many other commentators were saying the same - I know you are aware as this has been quoted at you multiple times,

secondly, nice try to make excuses for Dar - just the other day Dar was saying that there is no law that says he can’t be a senator from abroad, which must mean he believes there is no law stopping him being finance minister from London - in fact nawaz even ran the govt from London for a number of months in his last tenure

cmon sir, Dar was fired - everyone knows that. Further miftah immediately reversed some of dar’s policies - again common knowledge - but I 100% agree he ran away like a coward - seems to be a family trait of the sharif family - maybe time to consider changing the party symbol? ?

 

[RajaRawal111]

What did Ahsan Iqbal say? I’m talking about the 2017 tribune article which quotes PMLN sources (off the record), and around that time many other commentators were saying the same - I know you are aware as this has been quoted at you multiple times,

secondly, nice try to make excuses for Dar - just the other day Dar was saying that there is no law that says he can’t be a senator from abroad, which must mean he believes there is no law stopping him being finance minister from London - in fact nawaz even ran the govt from London for a number of months in his last tenure

cmon sir, Dar was fired - everyone knows that. Further miftah immediately reversed some of dar’s policies - again common knowledge - but I 100% agree he ran away like a coward - seems to be a family trait of the sharif family - maybe time to consider changing the party symbol? ?

I think we are running in circles now. The Artical was an opinion of any individual. There was no policy of PMLN to go to IMF. Nooni's could never go to IMF when the CPEC was happening. It just does not make any sense.
If you remember. IMFs first condition was that it wanted to look into the CPEC contracts. And this is what caused Assad Umar to fall in the ditch. Because this great man was refusing it like PMLN could have done. He knew CPEC is our only crime and our Future.

IMF request for CPEC contract details declined | The Express Tribune

Fund’s team meets Ministry of Planning and Development officials

tribune.com.pk

 

[Hate_Nooras]

I think we are running in circles now. The Artical was an opinion of any individual. There was no policy of PMLN to go to IMF. Nooni's could never go to IMF when the CPEC was happening. It just does not make any sense.
If you remember. IMFs first condition was that it wanted to look into the CPEC contracts. And this is what caused Assad Umar to fall in the ditch. Because this great man was refusing it like PMLN could have done. He knew CPEC is our only crime and our Future.

IMF request for CPEC contract details declined | The Express Tribune

Fund’s team meets Ministry of Planning and Development officials

tribune.com.pk

So AI and all the other Nooras are lying about going to the IMF but you know better ?. Maybe you can tell us you secret on how to finance a CAD ot 30bn. Please do share.

 

[Hate_Nooras]

I agree with this. But know from the fact that Trade balance was actually never zero or Pluss in your IK times as well. It was a manipulation just like Dar's currency manipulation.

But your crooks made mistakes for their own benefit. The overvalued currency gave them a chance to launder at good rates and made them look good. The only problem was that economic fundamentals can't be ignored and the policy just put off the strong medicine needed such as a floating exchange rate.

 

[RajaRawal111]

So AI and all the other Nooras are lying about going to the IMF but you know better ?. Maybe you can tell us you secret on how to finance a CAD ot 30bn. Please do share.

I am tired of this non-fact based discussion. It is obvious that Revenue generation from the Taxs would pay for all we need. And this Revenue is generated from increased economical activities. Not just the price hie of electricity and petrol and GST.