Was Prophet Mohammad From Makkah(Mecca)?

[observer-x]

The evidence is in the Quranic verses.
37:133-138 And certainly, Lot was one of the messengers; when We saved him and all his people, except the incapable ones among those lagging (some of Lot’s people tarried); then, We “destroyed” the rest (who didn’t depart); and you (Oh! Prophet), pass by their ruins in the morning; and in the night. Do you not understand?”Patricia Crone was aware of this verse, but many “Muslims” are not.
The part where it states: “you pass by their ruins in the morning and in the night.” What about the one that states “not very far from you”? Distances in those days were a journey, but for God to say “not very far from you”(see below) implies a destination quite close, otherwise, how could the Prophet pass by morning and evening?11:89“And, O my people, let not your dispute with me drive you into what befell the people of Noah, or the people of Hud or the people of Saleh: and (note that) the people of Lot lived not very far from you!” a verse from the Quran which does give room for a lot of thought. The verse is depicted below: The picture that we get from these verses is that, as Crone has indicated, the Prophet of Arabia originated from a region in northwest Arabia. Exactly where we are not certain, but quite close to the region of the Dead Sea in what is Jordan today.
The region inhabited by Shoaib’s people extended from what is known today as the Gulf of Aqabah to the mountains of Moab, east of the Dead Sea, in the vicinity of where Sodom and Gomorrah were situated. The word biba’id, meaning “not very far” from you, is pretty relative when you think of distances in those days. The intent was that it wasn’t far. This might suggest that Prophet Muhammad (the praised one) lived in the vicinity of that region. Well, it seems to prove that Patricia Crone is on the right track.
What do we make of this verse? Are we just to ignore it and continue with our tunnel vision of what we have been “fed” with all these centuries without questioning? That would certainly not be what Allah wants us to do as rational, thinking human beings whom He created.

Pervaizi Qadiyanis have their own female maulvi who they learn their religion from - Patricia Crone.

 

[Citizen X]

37:133-138 And certainly, Lot was one of the messengers; when We saved him and all his people, except the incapable ones among those lagging (some of Lot’s people tarried); then, We “destroyed” the rest (who didn’t depart); and you (Oh! Prophet), pass by their ruins in the morning; and in the night. Do you not understand?”

This means a well travelled road where people travelling on it would see it night and day as indicated in

15:76 Their ruins still lie along a known route.

Otherwise why would anyone go up and down what was akin to a highway in those times night and day unless travelling somewhere outside the city

11:89“And, O my people, let not your dispute with me drive you into what befell the people of Noah, or the people of Hud or the people of Saleh: and (note that) the people of Lot lived not very far from you!”

Thats a mistranslation of وَمَا قَوْمُ لُوطٍۢ مِّنكُم بِبَعِيدٍۢ which actually means "and you are not far off from the people of Lut." There is no mention of living, had lived or anything from which one could take they resided near by or had any kind of dwellings or any kind of permanent or semi permanent place of rest . Otherwise the verse would have read

وَمَا قَوْمُ لُوطٍۢ يعيشون بِبَعِيدٍۢ مِّنكُم

Or something similar. What the verse is really trying to say is that you are not too far off from the disobedient people of Nuh, Hud, Saleh and Lut and let not your disobedience let you gear towards a similar end that their people had.

And also if we take the translation you provided, it makes no sense. What has people of Lut living nearby got to do with what befell the people of Nuh Hud and Saleh? Its like saying I don't like Ahmed, Rashid, Bilal and Salim lives nearby?!?!?!?!?!?!

So obviously Allah was adding the people of Lut as an example of people who were destroyed by Allah and wasn't mentioning their location.

So basically a warning. ke banday de puttar ban jao verna chittar pard ne hai

Edit : Just for clarification بِبَعِيدٍۢ / Ba'eed here means not far off. It is just like the English word far, which can mean distance as well as closeness or resemblance, Manila's not too far off from Karachi meaning Manila is pretty similar to Karachi or Hyderabad is not to far from Karachi meaning Hyderabad's distance from Karachi is not a lot.

 

[observer-x]

Edit : Just for clarification بِبَعِيدٍۢ / Ba'eed here means not far off. It is just like the English word far, which can mean distance as well as closeness or resemblance, Manila's not too far off from Karachi meaning Manila is pretty similar to Karachi or Hyderabad is not to far from Karachi meaning Hyderabad's distance from Karachi is not a lot.

Pervaizi Qadiyani trying to be experts in Arabic here. Hypocrites!!!

When we expose their lack of understanding of Arabic they right away say we don't need to learn Arabic to understand Quran.

 

[Wake up Pak]

This means a well travelled road where people travelling on it would see it night and day as indicated in

15:76 Their ruins still lie along a known route.

Otherwise why would anyone go up and down what was akin to a highway in those times night and day unless travelling somewhere outside the city



Thats a mistranslation of وَمَا قَوْمُ لُوطٍۢ مِّنكُم بِبَعِيدٍۢ which actually means "and you are not far off from the people of Lut." There is no mention of living, had lived or anything from which one could take they resided near by or had any kind of dwellings or any kind of permanent or semi permanent place of rest . Otherwise the verse would have read

وَمَا قَوْمُ لُوطٍۢ يعيشون بِبَعِيدٍۢ مِّنكُم

Or something similar. What the verse is really trying to say is that you are not too far off from the disobedient people of Nuh, Hud, Saleh and Lut and let not your disobedience let you gear towards a similar end that their people had.

And also if we take the translation you provided, it makes no sense. What has people of Lut living nearby got to do with what befell the people of Nuh Hud and Saleh? Its like saying I don't like Ahmed, Rashid, Bilal and Salim lives nearby?!?!?!?!?!?!

So obviously Allah was adding the people of Lut as an example of people who were destroyed by Allah and wasn't mentioning their location.

So basically a warning. ke banday de puttar ban jao verna chittar pard ne hai

Edit : Just for clarification بِبَعِيدٍۢ / Ba'eed here means not far off. It is just like the English word far, which can mean distance as well as closeness or resemblance, Manila's not too far off from Karachi meaning Manila is pretty similar to Karachi or Hyderabad is not to far from Karachi meaning Hyderabad's distance from Karachi is not a lot.

How would you explain morning & night?
And you (Oh! Prophet), pass by their ruins in the morning; and in the night. Do you not understand?”

 

[Citizen X]

How would you explain morning & night?
And you (Oh! Prophet), pass by their ruins in the morning; and in the night. Do you not understand?”

I just did, from the verse 15:76. Its a well known route, a well know route is usually well travelled

And again mistranslated there is No Oh! Prophet in this verse as it can been seen by the brackets. the verse is وَإِنَّكُمْ لَتَمُرُّونَ عَلَيْهِم مُّصْبِحِينَ just a general you. And if you read the preceding and following verses, Allah is not talking to the Prophet here as he does in places in the Quran. Like 33:1. Addin Oh Proiphet here is just the translators own understanding, which after reading the surrounding verses I disagree with

So a road well travelled will have people moving on it at all times of the day.

 

[Wake up Pak]

I just did, from the verse 15:76. Its a well known route, a well know route is usually well travelled

And again mistranslated there is No Oh! Prophet in this verse as it can been seen by the brackets. the verse is وَإِنَّكُمْ لَتَمُرُّونَ عَلَيْهِم مُّصْبِحِينَ just a general you. And if you read the preceding and following verses, Allah is not talking to the Prophet here as he does in places in the Quran. Like 33:1. Addin Oh Proiphet here is just the translators own understanding, which after reading the surrounding verses I disagree with

So a road well travelled will have people moving on it at all times of the day.

Who does Allah refer to as "You" in the verse? Certainly, not to Prophet Lot.
It can't be just general You!!!
Even if I disregard the verse and agree with your interpretation, it still does not tell us that the Prophet Mohammad was from Makkah.

 

[Citizen X]

Who does Allah refer to as "You" in the verse? Certainly, not to Prophet Lot.
It can't be just general You!!!

If you read the Surah from the beginning, you will understand the you here is the people of Mecca which the prophet use to convey Allah's message to, and Allah's tell them about heaven and how bad hell is going to be, and then turn by turn narrates the stories of each of the prophets and how their people got destroyed for not following the Prophets call towards Islam and towards the end of the surah he warns them, that "you" i.e people of Meccan are not to far off these previous disobedient people so better get with it or you just might face a similar fate.

A little off topic but it is a very interesting Surah and I thank you for making me read it again. Here are some verses you might find very insightful indeed about some of our friends.

37:26- But they, that Day, are in surrender.
-27- They will turn on each other, throwing blame.
-28- The misled will say, “It was you who deluded us away from what is right.”
-29- The misleaders will reply, “No! You disbelieved on your own.
-30- We had no authority over you. In fact, you yourselves were a transgressing people.
-31- The decree of our Lord has come to pass against us ˹all˺: we will certainly taste ˹the punishment˺.

it still does not tell us that the Prophet Mohammad was from Makkah.

But why does it matter where he's from? It doesn't change a thing? Just like the Shia keep making noise that Ali should have been Khalifa! And my response is always why does it matter, it does not make a single iota of a difference to the deen of Islam or the Quran if Ali was the first Khalifah or if Muhammad was from Mecca.

 

[Wake up Pak]

If you read the Surah from the beginning, you will understand the you here is the people of Mecca which the prophet use to convey Allah's message to, and Allah's tell them about heaven and how bad hell is going to be, and then turn by turn narrates the stories of each of the prophets and how their people got destroyed for not following the Prophets call towards Islam and towards the end of the surah he warns them, that "you" i.e people of Meccan are not to far off these previous disobedient people so better get with it or you just might face a similar fate

Where did you get the idea that the Prophet was conveying the message to the people of Mecca? The word Mecca is mentioned in only one verse in the entire Quran.
I believe that the Prophet Muhammad was not originally from Mecca; therefore, the concrete cube-shaped structure in Mecca known as the Kaaba holds no significance.
Yes, I agree that it does not matter where the Prophet Mohammad was from; the important thing is the Message, i.e, the Quran.

 

[Citizen X]

Where did you get the idea that the Prophet was conveying the message to the people of Mecca?

Ok my mistake, I was imposing my prejudice that Mecca is Mecca and he was talking to his people i.e Meccans. Ok let me rephrase it, he was conveying the message to his people from where they might have been from.

I believe that the Prophet Muhammad was not originally from Mecca; therefore, the concrete cube-shaped structure in Mecca known as the Kaaba holds no significance.

For arguments sake, lets say that is true, then where is the actual Kabah or at least it's remains. The Quran does mention the Kabah several times so it has to be something, somewhere. And I find it hard to believe that such a trading town and a known religious site of pagan Arabs who would performs pilgrimages there, all of a sudden gets wiped out from not only this world, but everyone's memory too. Like I said earlier, there is not a shred of documentary evidence supporting this claim.

I think all this confusion comes from as usual the Muslim scholars exaggerating the importance of Mecca to lend Islam more credibility in their minds. So they overstated it's commercial aspect as being an important central hub of trade between Levant, Europe, Asia and Africa and that Pagans from far and wide made pilgrimages to it.

When it reality it could be a small local trading post for the surrounding areas, which the surrounding pagan Arabs knew about because of the Kaabah and few might even go there every once in a while. 1st century Greek historian writes of a Bibliotheca Historia about a great Arab temple in western Arabia near the red sea and that it was a sacred place.

“And a temple has been set up there which is very holy and exceedingly revered by all the Arabs.”

This is more than 600 years before the advent of the Prophet.

So I am guessing the "scholars" ( these early scholars really did leave a big mess behind them because of which we are still suffering today ) felt that telling people about a new religion that came from a small virtually unknown town far away in the mountainous desert of Arabia would not give the proper respect and credence, so they just spiced up the story a bit. And it was not like people back then has means to instantly check up on things

EDIT : As a favour can you stop writing in Italics, really annoys me for some reason. Italics and large fonts for some reason and you have both! LOL

 

[Wake up Pak]

For arguments sake, lets say that is true, then where is the actual Kabah or at least it's remains. The Quran does mention the Kabah several times so it has to be something, somewhere. And I find it hard to believe that such a trading town and a known religious site of pagan Arabs who would performs pilgrimages there, all of a sudden gets wiped out from not only this world, but everyone's memory too. Like I said earlier, there is not a shred of documentary evidence supporting this claim.

There is no Kaaba that so-called Muslims circumambulate seven times. If I'm not mistaken, the word "Kaaba" appears three times in the Quran. I encourage you to visit this YouTube channel and watch the video titled "What Al-Bait Really Is?"
The first 50 minutes should be sufficient to gain a clear understanding of what Al Bayt refers to.

Pegham-e- Haqq

Pegham-e-Haqq is a platform where Quran Scholars, Researchers and Students will participate to spread Quran's true meanings. Anybody who has done a research on any Quranic topic can contact us via our email. Thanks for your support

www.youtube.com

 

[observer-x]

There is no Kaaba that so-called Muslims circumambulate seven times. If I'm not mistaken, the word "Kaaba" appears three times in the Quran. I encourage you to visit this YouTube channel and watch the video titled "What Al-Bait Really Is?"
The first 50 minutes should be sufficient to gain a clear understanding of what Al Bayt refers to.

Pegham-e- Haqq

Pegham-e-Haqq is a platform where Quran Scholars, Researchers and Students will participate to spread Quran's true meanings. Anybody who has done a research on any Quranic topic can contact us via our email. Thanks for your support

www.youtube.com

Pervaizi Qadiyani wants everyone to visit an unknown youtube channel to learn their religion.

Once kaaba is gone, worship to Allah is gone what is left behind is atheism. This is who these people are.

 

[Citizen X]

There is no Kaaba that so-called Muslims circumambulate seven times. If I'm not mistaken, the word "Kaaba" appears three times in the Quran. I encourage you to visit this YouTube channel and watch the video titled "What Al-Bait Really Is?"
The first 50 minutes should be sufficient to gain a clear understanding of what Al Bayt refers to.

Pegham-e- Haqq

Pegham-e-Haqq is a platform where Quran Scholars, Researchers and Students will participate to spread Quran's true meanings. Anybody who has done a research on any Quranic topic can contact us via our email. Thanks for your support

www.youtube.com

Cool will look into it

 

[crankthskunk]

Quranic reference that the Prophet Mohammad was not from Makkah or Mecca.

Some excerpts from the book "Sense and Sensibility in Islam. "There is physical evidence that the Arabic language, as revealed in the Scriptures, is a product of the Nabataeans who were dominant in the Jordan/Palestine area.• Mecca (in Saudi Arabia) cannot be found on any ancient trade map or recorded as a center for pilgrimage or major religious activity before the seventh century CE.37:133-138 And certainly, Lot was one of the messengers; when We saved him and all his people, except the incapable ones among those lagging (some of Lot’s people tarried); then, We “destroyed” the rest (who didn’t depart); and you (Oh! Prophet), pass by their ruins in the morning; and in the night. Do you not understand?”Patricia Crone was aware of this verse, but many “Muslims” are not.
The part where it states: “you pass by their ruins in the morning and in the night.” What about the one that states “not very far from you”? Distances in those days were a journey, but for God to say “not very far from you”(see below) implies a destination quite close, otherwise, how could the Prophet pass by morning and evening?11:89“And, O my people, let not your dispute with me drive you into what befell the people of Noah, or the people of Hud or the people of Saleh: and (note that) the people of Lot lived not very far from you!” a verse from the Quran which does give room for a lot of thought. The verse is depicted below: The picture that we get from these verses is that, as Crone has indicated, the Prophet of Arabia originated from a region in northwest Arabia. Exactly where we are not certain, but quite close to the region of the Dead Sea in what is Jordan today.
The region inhabited by Shoaib’s people extended from what is known today as the Gulf of Aqabah to the mountains of Moab, east of the Dead Sea, in the vicinity of where Sodom and Gomorrah were situated. The word biba’id, meaning “not very far” from you, is pretty relative when you think of distances in those days. The intent was that it wasn’t far. This might suggest that Prophet Muhammad (the praised one) lived in the vicinity of that region. Well, it seems to prove that Patricia Crone is on the right track.
What do we make of this verse? Are we just to ignore it and continue with our tunnel vision of what we have been “fed” with all these centuries without questioning? That would certainly not be what Allah wants us to do as rational, thinking human beings whom He created.
Citizen X observer-x atensari karachiwala

You moron, every few days you bring BS to attack Islam, the Quran and the Muslims.
Crone also says that Prophet Muhammad SAW authored the Holy Quran. Do you believe that Prophet Muhammad SAW authored the Holy Quran and it is not the word of God (Nauzobillah)?
Answer it if you are a man.

 

[Wake up Pak]

2:39 Those who deny the truth and reject Our revelations will be heading for Hell, where they will remain forever.

 

[Wake up Pak]

You moron, every few days you bring BS to attack Islam, the Quran and the Muslims.
Crone also says that Prophet Muhammad SAW authored the Holy Quran. Do you believe that Prophet Muhammad SAW authored the Holy Quran and it is not the word of God (Nauzobillah)?
Answer it if you are a man.

You are pathetic and ignorant. What she said in the video does not mean you have to agree with her. The verses she quoted are from the Quran, so chill and use your brain to think and reflect instead of being emotional about your fabricated Islam.

 

[observer-x]

What she said in the video does not mean you have to agree with her.

Look at the chameleon like hypocrite Pervaizi Qadiyanis.

When they get caught with their lies they say their stupid way out is 'you don't have to agree with it'.

These hackel and jackel are worse than the hypocrites.

 

[Wake up Pak]

The ignorant Muslims think that the Quran belongs to them and they are the custodians of it. In reality, the Quran is a book of guidance for humanity.

2:2 This is the Book about which there is no doubt, a guidance for those conscious of Allah

-“Verily We have revealed the book to you in truth for instructing mankind. He that receives guidance benefits his own soul, but he that strays injures his own soul”. [39:41]

 

[observer-x]

The ignorant Muslims think that the Quran belongs to them

Good, so you clarified you're not a muslim.

 

[Wake up Pak]

Good, so you clarified you're not a muslim.

I do not know why am I seeing this moron's posts. Yes, I'm not the Muslim of the fabricated Islam of Mullahs and their blind followers.
If you moron can not understand a simple verse, then I suggest you start to read the Quran, or do not comment on posts.
Show me a single verse that the Quran was sent down for Muslims or Momineen only.

“A Book We have sent down to you so that you may bring forth mankind from the darkness into the light...” [14:1]

 

[observer-x]

I do not know why am I seeing this moron's posts. Yes, I'm not the Muslim of the fabricated Islam of Mullahs and their blind followers.

Noted... you've said it yourself one more time you're NOT a muslim.

The forum should read his claim multiple times that he's not a muslim.

Show me a single verse that the Quran was sent down for Muslims or Momineen only.

“A Book We have sent down to you so that you may bring forth mankind from the darkness into the light...” [14:1]

Here you go, for your ignorance:

وَنُنَزِّلُ مِنَ ٱلْقُرْءَانِ مَا هُوَ شِفَآءٌۭ وَرَحْمَةٌۭ لِّلْمُؤْمِنِينَ ۙ
And We send down of the Qur’ān that which is healing and mercy for the believers (Surah Isra Ayah 82)

Again Pervaizi Qadiyani.... who is Quran sent to ?? Mercy for whom??? Believers - Mumineen.