There is no Imam Mahdi (A.S.) (Na-Auoozubillah) - Javed Ahmad GHAMIDI The King of LIARS

[babadeena]

In this Video LIAR KING GHAMDI claimed that
IMAM MEHDI AS not mentioned in QURAN
And
[HI]IMAM MEHDI AS is not mentioned in ANY SAHI HADITH[/HI]
THAN
FROM WHERE THE UMMAH GOT
The Cocept of IMAM MEHDI AS
?????????????????
This
SHOWS HOW AUTHANTIC GHAMDI LIAR IS?
WATCH and LISTEN after drinking CHILLED GLASS of WATER.

​

About Sahi Hadith or any other Hadith, you may check with him or any one else, but
as far as Quran is concerned He is right? you accept it or reject it, is your choice.
Ummah Got so many things which are not mentioned in Quran from other religions,
such as name of the lady was Zuleikha who was in love with Yousuf, then name of
Kizhar whereas in Quran it is said He was just an abad(slave), etc etc. etc. etc.
Now you check with the source yourself. For me it is enough that there was a lady,
i am not interested in her name, for me it is enough that there was a human being
gifted knowledge by Allah, I am not interested to know his name because Allah
has not mentioned it. that is enough. You see the difference.

 

[Mughal1]

Before anyone claims something is in the quran or is not in the quran, the question that needs to be raised is, does that person really understand the quran?

Before one claims that something is in the hadith or is not in the hadith, the question is, does that person understand the hadith?

Before one claims something is islam or is not islam the question is, does that person understand islam?

If one answers that one does, what is the proof that one really does?

So long as one cannot prove what one claims there is no point in accepting one's claim as valid.

None can prove anything without consistency in logic and evidence. To prove anything one needs aqal and naqal and proper understanding of naqal or information one has received.

How many of us have the aqal and naqal and proper understanding of naqal?

We can see each other's aqal by our responses to each other and we can see how much understanding we really have of the subject matter we are discussing with each other.

If we really want to be intellectuals and have proper understanding of information about islam then we need to learn how to understand things which we wish to discuss.

The most senseless belief of people is quran cannot be understood without hadith. Why is this belief senseless? Because the quran is testimony or statement of Allah. Each witness is an independent witness. The quran and hadith are two independent sources in their origin and they are not necessarily transmitted and reported by same sources.

Not only that but each and every hadith report is an independent report with its own chain of transmitters or reporters.

This being the case each testimony or statement must be understood and examined independently. Once we have done that then we bring all these pieces of information together to see how they fit with each other and whether they fit with each other or not.

The quran will have priority because it is a single and complete statement and because it is transmitted or reported through more people right from the beginning and because it was transmitted both in verbal form and in form of writing. The proof is that all reciters of the quran through out the world recite the very same text and that proves that it was copied from one person to the other. Similarly all written copies of the quran are also the same which again proves that writing was also copied from the written copies. So we have three proofs a)consistency in verbal transmission b)consistency in written transmission and c)they both match and support each other despite being independent channels. We can look into past copies of the quran to further increase the strength of the proof because they prove to be the very same save some minor copying errors here and there.

This proof for the quranic text being transmitted faithfully is so strong that it is impossible to refute.

Unfortunately this is not the case for the hadith reports. However that does not mean that all hadith reports are false or useless, not at all but because there is possibility of doubt it is better to not to take hadith reports to same level as the quranic text. This is the main reason scholars of hadith thought that channels of narration of hadith must be made known in order to cut down false and weak reports. Had they thought the hadith reports were of same level as the quranic text then they would not have done that.

They did this because they were well aware that hadith reports are not as well known as the quranic text hence ummah never took hadith reports at same level as the quranic text so all who take them to same level as the quran today are therefore doing the wrong thing.

This means that both the quran and the hadith are authentic sources of islam but one is primary and the other secondary and one is more authentic than the other.

It also means that all hadith reports regardless by sunnies or shias are of equal value in authenticity because both have been reported by reliable channels. So people who choose between the sources are clearly doing the wrong thing.

So far it should be clear that not all hadith are good but neither are all hadith bad. So total acceptance of hadith is as wrong as total rejection of them. The correct position is to examine each hadith and if it proves to be reliable then it is ok. Any hadith is reliable if it has sound chain of transmission unless it fails cross examination on other grounds eg textual criticism.

The next problem is understanding of the transmitted texts be it quran or hadith.

Here we need good grasp of real world realities and aspects of language as well so that we could give different meanings to words and see which of them fit perfectly with the text that give it flow so that the text has some sense or context within itself. This is where muslims have failed very badly for generations. So far we have not managed to understand the quran properly. The proof, the we have no consistent message from the quran or hadith. The result we have divided people ie sects.

This needs research and exploration of the nature that is able to show the message of the quran is consistent so that it could be clearly seen how the quran proves to be word of God or how the hadith proves to be word or deed of the prophet. We have failed in putting our money where our mouth is and result is we are at the bottom of the scale instead of leading others.

Our priorities need to be examined so that we could get the quranic program back on the track otherwise we will remain troubled for quite some time to come till we get our priorities right.

A point to remember is that as we try to make sense of the quranic text or for that matter of the hadith texts to get to their proper contexts, we are going to make a lot of mistakes as we have been in the past and the response need to be try to find corrections instead of condemning each other.

This is where people like sir syed, iqbal, jinnah, parwez, ghamidi and the likes must be encouraged not discouraged because some one has to break the ice so that we start moving again even if we have to move one step back with every two steps forward. Standing still is no service to God or humanity.

It is therefore wrong of people who condemn people who take the steps to move caravan of the muslim ummah. We need to worry more about people who are holding us in a fixed position that is obviously very bad because we are in hell and suffering so we need to move out of hell and into a position that is set for us by the quran ie world leadership. We ought to be an exemplary nation for the rest of the world and that is what pakistan was created for.

It is in this context that I am against mullahs ie such people as have nonsense kind of understanding of islam. This does not mean that I support any scholar but yes, only the points that are sensible. I even support mullahs where they do anything beneficial for the ummah and appreciate it. My problem is with people who have no sense of islam and trying to stop others from thinking and expressing their thoughts. It is nothing personal but that it is the way to learning that these people are trying to stop and that is very dangerous and therefore we must not let them do that but if do then we are our own worse enemies.

 

[Dark-Spirit]

Big Sarcastic smile… :lol: :cool: Well a dark spirit can only smile on the condition of some dark hearted eunuchs of mankind. I wonder why in the recorded history of mankind there haven’t been much dissenting voices on the following concepts which were of course based on conjecture and pure speculation;

• Plato’s conjecture of politics, city-state, justice and its ruling class in a republic which is still considered to be the divine authority among the classical political scientists and socialists.
• Aristotle’s famous notion of a democratic state which has ever since gained a cult status in the world was also based on his conjecture.
• For St Augustine and St Thomas Aquinas the divine edicts and principles of Christianity were perfectly compatible with the running of a secular state and hence according to them the teachings of their professed faith had no contradiction with the principles of logic and scientific knowledge of their era were again the work of their own conjecture and speculative reasoning adopted by the modern day’s Ecclesiastical authorities with some appendices.
• Chanakya and his Middle Aged European carbon copy Machiavelli based the notions of their political philosophy on the edifice of ruthless ground realities instead of the ideal notions of their predecessors which has the acceptance among the statesmen and scholars till this day was also based on their conjecture.
• Friedrich Hegel and his torchbearers in the shape of Karl Marx & Friedrich Engels when introduced their concept of absolute reality in shaping the historical events of the past and present, which was based on the central force of Capitalism, then again the socialist revolutionaries adopted their speculative reasoning with religious devotion.
• David Hume and Adam Smith when put the foundations of a renewed form of Capitalism in Middle Ages then their notions of oppressive economic theorisation was also based on their conjecture the theme of which is still relevant in the academic courses on Political Economy and Economics.
• The famous concept of physical evolution of living organisms on planet earth was revolutionised by the speculative naturalists and scientists to that extent that till this day this has remained to a status of a theory not a scientific fact.
• The notion of secularism and absolute liberalism which emanated from the dust of European so called renaissance was also a conjectural concept of that era’s thinkers which have been adopted by the current powerful states of the world without any serious questioning.

Yes but when it comes to the sayings of that Supreme Soul of the universe who was also appointed to the highest degree of Prophethood then of course they are based on his speculation and conjecture and so called modern minds including the namesake progressive Muslims will always find some flaws, loopholes and hideous motives in their recording and dissemination. What a great bunch of “Progressive Intellectuals” are these modern age’s religious sceptics who always want to deal with the issues of Islamic faith in isolation and fragments. Hurray! Let us just celebrate this so called slight diversion from the method of the earlier and contemporary scholarships in the name of Prince of Darkness…. :arms:

 

[Benito]

you are a great man..

Before anyone claims something is in the quran or is not in the quran, the question that needs to be raised is, does that person really understand the quran?

Before one claims that something is in the hadith or is not in the hadith, the question is, does that person understand the hadith?

Before one claims something is islam or is not islam the question is, does that person understand islam?

If one answers that one does, what is the proof that one really does?

So long as one cannot prove what one claims there is no point in accepting one's claim as valid.

None can prove anything without consistency in logic and evidence. To prove anything one needs aqal and naqal and proper understanding of naqal or information one has received.

How many of us have the aqal and naqal and proper understanding of naqal?

We can see each other's aqal by our responses to each other and we can see how much understanding we really have of the subject matter we are discussing with each other.

If we really want to be intellectuals and have proper understanding of information about islam then we need to learn how to understand things which we wish to discuss.

The most senseless belief of people is quran cannot be understood without hadith. Why is this belief senseless? Because the quran is testimony or statement of Allah. Each witness is an independent witness. The quran and hadith are two independent sources in their origin and they are not necessarily transmitted and reported by same sources.

Not only that but each and every hadith report is an independent report with its own chain of transmitters or reporters.

This being the case each testimony or statement must be understood and examined independently. Once we have done that then we bring all these pieces of information together to see how they fit with each other and whether they fit with each other or not.

The quran will have priority because it is a single and complete statement and because it is transmitted or reported through more people right from the beginning and because it was transmitted both in verbal form and in form of writing. The proof is that all reciters of the quran through out the world recite the very same text and that proves that it was copied from one person to the other. Similarly all written copies of the quran are also the same which again proves that writing was also copied from the written copies. So we have three proofs a)consistency in verbal transmission b)consistency in written transmission and c)they both match and support each other despite being independent channels. We can look into past copies of the quran to further increase the strength of the proof because they prove to be the very same save some minor copying errors here and there.

This proof for the quranic text being transmitted faithfully is so strong that it is impossible to refute.

Unfortunately this is not the case for the hadith reports. However that does not mean that all hadith reports are false or useless, not at all but because there is possibility of doubt it is better to not to take hadith reports to same level as the quranic text. This is the main reason scholars of hadith thought that channels of narration of hadith must be made known in order to cut down false and weak reports. Had they thought the hadith reports were of same level as the quranic text then they would not have done that.

They did this because they were well aware that hadith reports are not as well known as the quranic text hence ummah never took hadith reports at same level as the quranic text so all who take them to same level as the quran today are therefore doing the wrong thing.

This means that both the quran and the hadith are authentic sources of islam but one is primary and the other secondary and one is more authentic than the other.

It also means that all hadith reports regardless by sunnies or shias are of equal value in authenticity because both have been reported by reliable channels. So people who choose between the sources are clearly doing the wrong thing.

So far it should be clear that not all hadith are good but neither are all hadith bad. So total acceptance of hadith is as wrong as total rejection of them. The correct position is to examine each hadith and if it proves to be reliable then it is ok. Any hadith is reliable if it has sound chain of transmission unless it fails cross examination on other grounds eg textual criticism.

The next problem is understanding of the transmitted texts be it quran or hadith.

Here we need good grasp of real world realities and aspects of language as well so that we could give different meanings to words and see which of them fit perfectly with the text that give it flow so that the text has some sense or context within itself. This is where muslims have failed very badly for generations. So far we have not managed to understand the quran properly. The proof, the we have no consistent message from the quran or hadith. The result we have divided people ie sects.

This needs research and exploration of the nature that is able to show the message of the quran is consistent so that it could be clearly seen how the quran proves to be word of God or how the hadith proves to be word or deed of the prophet. We have failed in putting our money where our mouth is and result is we are at the bottom of the scale instead of leading others.

Our priorities need to be examined so that we could get the quranic program back on the track otherwise we will remain troubled for quite some time to come till we get our priorities right.

A point to remember is that as we try to make sense of the quranic text or for that matter of the hadith texts to get to their proper contexts, we are going to make a lot of mistakes as we have been in the past and the response need to be try to find corrections instead of condemning each other.

This is where people like sir syed, iqbal, jinnah, parwez, ghamidi and the likes must be encouraged not discouraged because some one has to break the ice so that we start moving again even if we have to move one step back with every two steps forward. Standing still is no service to God or humanity.

It is therefore wrong of people who condemn people who take the steps to move caravan of the muslim ummah. We need to worry more about people who are holding us in a fixed position that is obviously very bad because we are in hell and suffering so we need to move out of hell and into a position that is set for us by the quran ie world leadership. We ought to be an exemplary nation for the rest of the world and that is what pakistan was created for.

It is in this context that I am against mullahs ie such people as have nonsense kind of understanding of islam. This does not mean that I support any scholar but yes, only the points that are sensible. I even support mullahs where they do anything beneficial for the ummah and appreciate it. My problem is with people who have no sense of islam and trying to stop others from thinking and expressing their thoughts. It is nothing personal but that it is the way to learning that these people are trying to stop and that is very dangerous and therefore we must not let them do that but if do then we are our own worse enemies.

 

[Mughal1]

Jo shaks quran k trujuma main tehreef ki koshish kar chuka ho wo tu kuch bhi keh sakta hai

Allah swt tamam musalman ko in dor-e-jadeed k fitno like ghamdi say mehfooz farmayin ameen

wanted bhai, quran ke tarajam hote rehen ge jab tak aise tarjame wajood main nahin aate jo quran ke ilfaaz ki aur us ke peghaam ki saheeh tarjumaani nahin karte.

sab ke sab tarajam har baat main ghalat nahin hen magar bahot si baatun main ghalat hen aur us ki waja yahee hai keh log tarjame mehz sawaab haasil karne ki niyat se kate hen yaa apna naam bhi quran ke tarjumaanu main likhwana chahte hen wohi baaten bataa kar jo pehle hi mojood hen saheeh ya ghalat..

isi liye koi kehta hai maine sankadoon kitaaben likh daali hai aur koi kehta hai maine hazaaroon kitaaben likh daali hen magar un main kaam ki baaten bahot hi kam hoti hen.

hona yeh chahiye keh log ziyada waqt socho wichaar par sarf karen aur apne khayalaat ko drust ladi main piroen aur phir pukhta karen aur phir loggon ko un se aaga karen. ise ilm ki duniya ko saheeh baaten maloom karne main madad mile gi. waqt pehle hi bahot mehdood hai aur oot patang kitaaben likh kar log na sirf apna balkeh doosrun ka waqt bhi zaaya karte hen aur is baat ka un ko ehsaas nahin hota.

aisa karne se insaaniyat ko bahot nuqsaan ponchta hai magar soche kon?

 

[siasihero]

Jnab aap jhoot bool rahae ho, mere ustad ne kaha tha k un k ustad k ilwah, jis ne translation ki hai quran ki woh Kafir ha, so you Ghamidi is the word K ;)

wanted bhai, quran ke tarajam hote rehen ge jab tak aise tarjame wajood main nahin aate jo quran ke ilfaaz ki aur us ke peghaam ki saheeh tarjumaani nahin karte.

sab ke sab tarajam har baat main ghalat nahin hen magar bahot si baatun main ghalat hen aur us ki waja yahee hai keh log tarjame mehz sawaab haasil karne ki niyat se kate hen yaa apna naam bhi quran ke tarjumaanu main likhwana chahte hen wohi baaten bataa kar jo pehle hi mojood hen saheeh ya ghalat..

isi liye koi kehta hai maine sankadoon kitaaben likh daali hai aur koi kehta hai maine hazaaroon kitaaben likh daali hen magar un main kaam ki baaten bahot hi kam hoti hen.

hona yeh chahiye keh log ziyada waqt socho wichaar par sarf karen aur apne khayalaat ko drust ladi main piroen aur phir pukhta karen aur phir loggon ko un se aaga karen. ise ilm ki duniya ko saheeh baaten maloom karne main madad mile gi. waqt pehle hi bahot mehdood hai aur oot patang kitaaben likh kar log na sirf apna balkeh doosrun ka waqt bhi zaaya karte hen aur is baat ka un ko ehsaas nahin hota.

aisa karne se insaaniyat ko bahot nuqsaan ponchta hai magar soche kon?

 

[w-a-n-t-e-d-]

wanted bhai, quran ke tarajam hote rehen ge jab tak aise tarjame wajood main nahin aate jo quran ke ilfaaz ki aur us ke peghaam ki saheeh tarjumaani nahin karte.

sab ke sab tarajam har baat main ghalat nahin hen magar bahot si baatun main ghalat hen aur us ki waja yahee hai keh log tarjame mehz sawaab haasil karne ki niyat se kate hen yaa apna naam bhi quran ke tarjumaanu main likhwana chahte hen wohi baaten bataa kar jo pehle hi mojood hen saheeh ya ghalat..

isi liye koi kehta hai maine sankadoon kitaaben likh daali hai aur koi kehta hai maine hazaaroon kitaaben likh daali hen magar un main kaam ki baaten bahot hi kam hoti hen.

hona yeh chahiye keh log ziyada waqt socho wichaar par sarf karen aur apne khayalaat ko drust ladi main piroen aur phir pukhta karen aur phir loggon ko un se aaga karen. ise ilm ki duniya ko saheeh baaten maloom karne main madad mile gi. waqt pehle hi bahot mehdood hai aur oot patang kitaaben likh kar log na sirf apna balkeh doosrun ka waqt bhi zaaya karte hen aur is baat ka un ko ehsaas nahin hota.

aisa karne se insaaniyat ko bahot nuqsaan ponchta hai magar soche kon?

baat suno tumnay w tehreer abhi dekhi nahi hai jo etni bari post likh di yahan..

ghamdi nay os harkat pay ulema say muafi mangi thi ...

quran k turjuma hotay rehangay magar jo oska ghalt tarjuma karayga like ghamdi modudi osko radh he kia jata rahayga
.

 

[WatanDost]

@babadeena

If Quran is the ONLY SOURCE to follow ISLAM
Than WHY SAHIB e QURAN SAW is MENTIONING QURAN and SUNNAH to be FOLLOWED?

In his(pbuh) Farewell Sermon, he pointed out in brief the duties and responsibilities of Muslims towards each other.This sermon was delivered on the Ninth Day of Dhul

Hijjah 10 A.H. in the 'Uranah valley of Mount Arafat' (in Mecca).

After praising, and thanking Allah he said:
"O People, lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this year, I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore listen to what I am saying to you very carefully and TAKE THESE WORDS TO THOSE WHO COULD NOT BE PRESENT HERE TODAY.

O People, just as you regard this month, this day, this city as Sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you. Remember that you will indeed meet your LORD, and that HE will indeed reckon your deeds. ALLAH has forbidden you to take usury (interest), therefore all interest obligation shall henceforth be waived. Your capital, however, is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer any inequity. Allah has Judged that there shall be no interest and that all the interest due to Abbas ibn 'Abd'al Muttalib (Prophet's uncle) shall henceforth be waived...

Beware of Satan, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope that he will ever be able to lead you astray in big things,
so beware of following him in small things.

O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under Allah's trust and with His permission. If they abide by your right then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with any one of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste.

O People, listen to me in earnest, worship ALLAH, say your five daily prayers (Salah), fast during the month of Ramadan, and give your wealth in Zakat. Perform Hajj if you can afford to.

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white except by piety and good action. Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.

Remember, one day you will appear before ALLAH and answer your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.



O People, NO PROPHET OR APOSTLE WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the QURAN and my example, the SUNNAH and if you follow these you will never go astray.


All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O ALLAH, that I have conveyed your message to your people".​

 

[babadeena]

I leave behind me two things, the QURAN and my example, the SUNNAH and if you follow these you will never go astray.

Unfortunately, Believers have got, till now, three versions of this part:
a) I am leaving behind Kitab Allah;
b) I am leaving behind Kitab Allah and Sunnah;
c) I am leaving behind Kitab Allah, Sunnah and my Ahlay-bait;
May be in next 100 years, how many forms or versions will be invented. The important
point is that khutaba was given in one day, same time, before hundred thousand people,
how it come that it got three versions.

 

[babadeena]

Since the debate of this thread has dragged on till now therefore I should add one dimension to this issue. By treading on this course I hope we will be able to locate the tracks of this issue that why the major faiths of the world, including Islam, have the urge of a Messiah / saviour of their fortunes in the last stages of this world, in which we are definitely in by the way.

• The course of these events of the world does have any purpose and end or not?
• If someone responds with an affirmative answer then what design and shapes will these current events will take place by considering the past and present causes of these events and their internal currents?
• According to the design of Friedrich Hegels shaping of universal and world events which force /s can play their part in his famous course of Thesis-Antithesis & Synthesis?
• Does Holy Quran and any other divine scripture guides us for the eventuality of these events of our world in an explicit or implicit manner or not?

I hope when we can debate on the roadmap with the four pointers indicated in above section then we might get to the logical reasoning of the need of giving an influential & charismatic saviour of mankind in End Times.

[MENTION=6265]Bret Hawk[/MENTION],
It is pity that no one attended to your valuable post. I myself have been busy in "kid traffic". Anyhow
your first question is "Why the urge".
It is due to the compromising and fragile nature of humans. They themselves know their weaknesses
They know that they are doing wrong. But wish to remain in the hope that someone as "Savior" will emerge
for them.
In your post your second very strong word is "Events", I really do not know what you mean by this.
If events are our day to day happenings. Then these are going to remain same with different degree of
veracity in them. Because Lord has created Goodness and Evil and these two factors are of utmost
importance in human lives and these lives evolve around these two things. Unfortunately or fortunately
we have been brought up in an environment wherein it is being constantly stated that a day will come
a savior will come, all kafreen, mushraykeen, and other than Muslims will be eliminated. only Islam
will remain or muslims will remain and then the day of judgement will come. If we go deep into\
Quran, perhaps the scenario is different, the status quo will be till the earth will start shaking.
sorry again to attend your post late.

 

[WatanDost]

Unfortunately, Believers have got, till now, three versions of this part:
a) I am leaving behind Kitab Allah;
b) I am leaving behind Kitab Allah and Sunnah;
c) I am leaving behind Kitab Allah, Sunnah and my Ahlay-bait;
May be in next 100 years, how many forms or versions will be invented. The important
point is that khutaba was given in one day, same time, before hundred thousand people,
how it come that it got three versions.

Quran, Sunnah and Ahlebait
All three have ONE root
MUHAMMAD SAW.
Thanks.

 

[indigo]

wanted bhai, quran ke tarajam hote rehen ge jab tak aise tarjame wajood main nahin aate jo quran ke ilfaaz ki aur us ke peghaam ki saheeh tarjumaani nahin karte.

baat suno tumnay w tehreer abhi dekhi nahi hai jo etni bari post likh di yahan..
ghamdi nay os harkat pay ulema say muafi mangi thi ...
quran k turjuma hotay rehangay magar jo oska ghalt tarjuma karayga like ghamdi modudi osko radh he kia jata rahayga
.

Mazrat k sath, lekin kiya ap usi tehreer ki baat kr rahae hai, jo unho ne 19 saal ki umer me likha tha?
bhai galti nikalnae niklo to tumhae einstein k kamo me bhi mil jaye gi... is se yeh sabit hota hai, k Allah k siwah koi perfect nahi... woh log bhi nai jinho ne nabi pbuh ki wafat k 150 saal bad hadiths tahreer ki....

b) I am leaving behind Kitab Allah and Sunnah;

There are two independent source of Info:
Quran
Sunah
And one is dependent source which is:
Hadith

 

[WatanDost]

Mazrat k sath, lekin kiya ap usi tehreer ki baat kr rahae hai, jo unho ne 19 saal ki umer me likha tha?
bhai galti nikalnae niklo to tumhae einstein k kamo me bhi mil jaye gi... is se yeh sabit hota hai, k Allah k siwah koi perfect nahi... woh log bhi nai jinho ne nabi pbuh ki wafat k 150 saal bad hadiths tahreer ki....




There are two independent source of Info:
Quran
Sunah
And one is dependent source which is:
Hadith

Definition[HI]In Islamic terminology, the term hadith refers to reports of statements or actions of Muhammad, or of his tacit approval or criticism of something said or done in his presence.[/HI][SUP][7][/SUP] Classical hadith specialist Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani says that the intended meaning of hadith in religious tradition is something attributed to Muhammad, as opposed to the Quran.[SUP][8][/SUP] Other associated words possess similar meanings including: khabar (news, information) often refers to reports about Muhammad, but sometimes refers to traditions about his companions and their successors from the following generation; conversely, athar (trace, vestige) usually refers to traditions about the companions and successors, though sometimes connotes traditions about Muhammad. [HI]The word sunnah (custom) is also used in reference to a normative custom of Muhammad or the early Muslim community[/HI].[SUP][7][/SUP]

Classification of Hadith or Khabar
[SIZE=+1] The Muhaddithin divide Hadith or Khabar into two main classes: [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] 1. Khabar-i-Tawatur (multiple evidence Hadith) [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1] 2. Khabar-i-Wahid (single evidence Hadith)

[SIZE=+1]KHABAR-I-TAWATUR[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+1] Khatib Baghdadi, the author of "al-Kifayah fi`ilm al-Riwayah"defines Khabar-i-Tawatur as follows: [/SIZE]

• [SIZE=+1]It is that Khabar which is quoted by such a large number of persons that in normal circumstances it is impossible that on a manifest subject so many people would, at one and the same time, agree on a false matter, when there is no evidence of any pressure on them too.
  
  And Arrival of MEHDI AS is Khabar i Tawatur and MUTAFIQ i Aleah in ISLAM[/SIZE]

[/SIZE]

 

[babadeena]

Quran, Sunnah and Ahlebait
All three have ONE root
MUHAMMAD SAW.
Thanks.

Be Afraid of your Lord. At one place, before 100 thousand people, at one time, one Khutaba
and three versions.
ALL DIFFERENCE AND DIVISION IN UMMAH IS DUE TO PREFERRED HADITHS.
and this is the reality.

 

[indigo]

Be Afraid of your Lord. At one place, before 100 thousand people, at one time, one Khutaba
and three versions.
ALL DIFFERENCE AND DIVISION IN UMMAH IS DUE TO PREFERRED HADITHS.
and this is the reality.

Wonderful...

But only Quran is unchanged?

 

[WatanDost]

Be Afraid of your Lord. At one place, before 100 thousand people, at one time, one Khutaba
and three versions.
ALL DIFFERENCE AND DIVISION IN UMMAH IS DUE TO PREFERRED HADITHS.
and this is the reality.

This is your CONCLUSION.
Better produce EVIDENCE of the other two versions KHUTBA.
Than claim your SO CALLED 3 versions.
Infact the KHUTBA is one till TODAY.

 

[babadeena]

This is your CONCLUSION.
Better produce EVIDENCE of the other two versions KHUTBA.
Than claim your SO CALLED 3 versions.
Infact the KHUTBA is one till TODAY.

Unfortunately, Believers have got, till now, three versions of this part: (my post 149)
Can you read three words underlined and in bold.

 

[WatanDost]

Unfortunately, Believers have got, till now, three versions of this part: (my post 149)
Can you read three words underlined and in bold.

Unfortunately, Non believers have no answer.
Were you Present there at the time of KHUTBA.
So your so CALLED two POINTS a and c
a) I am leaving behind Kitab Allah;
b) I am leaving behind Kitab Allah and Sunnah;
c) I am leaving behind Kitab Allah, Sunnah and my Ahlay-bait;

Are not ACCEPTABLE.

I simply asked you to produce THE FULL KHUTBA HAJ ul WIDA
having THESE a and c versions of Yours.

Indeed the KHUTBA HAJ ul WIDA is 1 from Hijjah 10 A.H. till TODAY.

O People, NO PROPHET OR APOSTLE WILL COME AFTER ME AND NO NEW FAITH WILL BE BORN. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the QURAN and my example, the SUNNAH and if you follow these you will never go astray.

​

Answer to the point.
Provide the OTHER two VERSIONS of KHUTBA with reference.
Thanks in advance.

@babadeena
Brother watch this and than answer
Your STANCE denied by yours beloved Javed Ghamdi
He is giving references of Ahadiths and Sunnah.
Indeed Mr LIAR GHAMDI proven himself

A SCHOLAR with TWO FACES what a shameless person he is????

http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...-Ghaib-Ghamidi-For-Shia-Brothers-With-Respect
​

 

[alphapaki]

How to Identify Imam e Ghaib? - Ghamidi

 

[ambroxo]

Re: How to Identify Imam e Ghaib? - Ghamidi - For Shia Brothers With Respect

:P do u think shia will listen ur voice ?
NO dear, never