Study on genetic lineage of Syeds in sub continent shows no evidence of common ancestry!!

molson4u

Senator (1k+ posts)
Mr. Awan4ever, First and far most you need to learn English before you make titles and post an article that you yourself can't read or understand. Please show me the part of article that supports your claim that " genetic lineage of syed in sub continent shows NO evidence of common ancestry.

Secondly, the study is flawed on many issues. I will just say one. Every person with last name syed as in the study is not syed such. as syed zaid zaman and syed Munaver or Syed Pervez Musharf...lol true Syed have printed Ancestory in their possession. True Syed came to sub continent before Muhammad Bin Qasim.
 

awan4ever

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Mr. Awan4ever, First and far most you need to learn English before you make titles and post an article that you yourself can't read or understand. Please show me the part of article that supports your claim that " genetic lineage of syed in sub continent shows NO evidence of common ancestry.

Secondly, the study is flawed on many issues. I will just say one. Every person with last name syed as in the study is not syed such. as syed zaid zaman and syed Munaver or Syed Pervez Musharf...lol true Syed have printed Ancestory in their possession. True Syed came to sub continent before Muhammad Bin Qasim.

Read the conclusion:

To conclude, this study opens the door to further genetic
investigations of the Syed lineage. For instance, it would
be interesting to investigate additional populations of both
self-identified and officially recognised Syeds from different parts of the world, including those from other Sunni
and Shiite communities. At present, our study shows that
Syeds from the Indian subcontinent have a greater affinity
to Arab populations than to their geographic neighbours
but do not show any evidence of a recent common patrineal
ancestry


lol true Syed have printed Ancestory in their possession.

And as we all know it was impossible to forge documents back then so all those with 'printed ancestary' are genuine Syeds! :D

Im guessing you are a Syed and therefore upset. Secondly if you have read basic biology you will understand the crux of the paper. It is nothing definitive. Just a study. I posted it here to ruffle some feathers and yours got ruffled.
This was meant to show that lineage and ancestry is something we delve into too much and give it importance beyond its due.

Lastly English isnt my first language so please forgive my inability to grasp it fully. I really tried hard to get 9/9 band in IELTs but managed only 8. Twice. :(
 
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ghair-siasi

Voter (50+ posts)
fully agree wid u imdad regarding awan's ancestry... there is no solid proof and i hv seen people fighting on this issue...
 

molson4u

Senator (1k+ posts)
Awan4ever bro the study is of " recent " common partineal ancestry. If you read the study it says recent is in last 50 years. Like I said before read history and you will find Syed came to subcontinental 700 to 800 years ago. The study is flawed. Secondly, after pertition of sun continent every other person became Syed.

True syed's have their biological partineL ancestry in their hand. The study didn't mention that he have gathered syed with a proofmof their genealogy but stated that they gather people with the last name Syed such as Syed Perveez Musharaf.

Again is asked you about your false title. Where in the study it states that there is NO genetic lineage of syed in SB shows NOA evidence of common ancestry.

It states that study shows that Syed have GREATER affinity to Arab then people from sub continent and it does not show RECENT( within 50 years) partineal ancestry...which will be impossible with no interaction. Hope you understand.

I know u are trying to rough the feathers but in few minutes it will change into Shia wahabi debate which is not good.
 

mrcritic

Minister (2k+ posts)
Why the HELL is UK bothered in doing history/research of "SYEDs" anyway??

Maybe they should publish their KINGODMS own lineage which is full of incest.
 

awan4ever

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Awan4ever bro the study is of " recent " common partineal ancestry. If you read the study it says recent is in last 50 years. Like I said before read history and you will find Syed came to subcontinental 700 to 800 years ago. The study is flawed. Secondly, after pertition of sun continent every other person became Syed.

True syed's have their biological partineL ancestry in their hand. The study didn't mention that he have gathered syed with a proofmof their genealogy but stated that they gather people with the last name Syed such as Syed Perveez Musharaf.

Again is asked you about your false title. Where in the study it states that there is NO genetic lineage of syed in SB shows NOA evidence of common ancestry.

It states that study shows that Syed have GREATER affinity to Arab then people from sub continent and it does not show RECENT( within 50 years) partineal ancestry...which will be impossible with no interaction. Hope you understand.

I know u are trying to rough the feathers but in few minutes it will change into Shia wahabi debate which is not good.

They can only do study of people who are alive and claim ancestry. The study is to see if their claims hold up. The paper itself has made clear the deficiencies in the data set but has given a general outlook on some problems in areas where claims of heritage seem far fetched.
As for having ancestry in your hand, I dont believe that either. Who is to say those are not forged documents? After the fall of the Mughal empire many people changed their lineage to fit in with the affluent crowd and they all have papers.
 

nauman

Senator (1k+ posts)
Every one know that syed cast is a fraud.no need of any study.how we can have atleast one house of syed in every street of PAkistan
 

awan4ever

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
Why the HELL is UK bothered in doing history/research of "SYEDs" anyway??

Maybe they should publish their KINGODMS own lineage which is full of incest.

They actually have done a lot of research on their own kings . If you note the names of the authors of the paper, you will see a certain lady 'Saima Shah'. Im guessing she is the one who probably suggested the topic to forward research to include a diverse diaspora. If our centers of learning are not doing anything it doesnt mean others should also sit by idly.
 

Pakistani1947

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
(Quran, 49:13): "Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you"

Islam came and destroyed the concept of hereditary ([FONT=&quot]موروثی[/FONT]) rank. The Quran declares that people are created inherently equal and differ only based on their Taqwa (piety):


[FONT=&quot]يَا أَيُّهَا النَّاسُ إِنَّا خَلَقْنَاكُم مِّن ذَكَرٍ وَأُنثَىٰ وَجَعَلْنَاكُمْ شُعُوبًا وَقَبَائِلَ لِتَعَارَفُوا ۚ إِنَّ أَكْرَمَكُمْ عِندَ اللَّهِ أَتْقَاكُمْ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلِيمٌ خَبِيرٌ [/FONT](Quran, 49:13)​
[FONT=&quot]Yusuf Ali 13: [/FONT]
O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).
[FONT=&quot]ا ے لوگو ہم نے تمہیں ایک ہی مرد اور عورت سے پیدا کیا ہے اور تمہارے خاندان اور قومیں جو بنائی ہیں تاکہ تمہیں آپس میں پہچان ہو بے شک زیادہ عزت والا تم میں سے الله کے نزدیک وہ ہے جو تم میں سے زیادہ پرہیزگار ہے بے شک الله سب کچھ جاننے والا خبردار ہے[/FONT]​

The Quran repeatedly holds each individual responsible for his or her own conduct. The actions of one soul cannot affect another, neither positively nor negatively. Is their anyone wish to go against the egalitarian (سب انسان برابر ہیں) spirit of Islam, and would instead be a reflection of Jahiliyyah custom in which people thought they would be saved based on their familial connections as opposed to their Taqwa. The Quran categorically declares that on the Day of Judgement a persons familial connections will be cut off:

[FONT=&quot]وَلَقَدْ جِئْتُمُونَا فُرَادَىٰ كَمَا خَلَقْنَاكُمْ أَوَّلَ مَرَّةٍ وَتَرَكْتُم مَّا خَوَّلْنَاكُمْ وَرَاءَ ظُهُورِكُمْ ۖ وَمَا نَرَىٰ مَعَكُمْ شُفَعَاءَكُمُ الَّذِينَ زَعَمْتُمْ أَنَّهُمْ فِيكُمْ شُرَكَاءُ ۚ لَقَد تَّقَطَّعَ بَيْنَكُمْ وَضَلَّ عَنكُم مَّا كُنتُمْ تَزْعُمُونَ [/FONT](Quran, 6:94)​
[FONT=&quot]Yusuf Ali 94: [/FONT]"And behold! ye come to us bare and alone as We created you for the first time: ye have left behind you all (the favours) which We bestowed on you: We see not with you your intercessors whom ye thought to be partners in your affairs: so now all relations between you have been cut off, and your (pet) fancies have left you in the lurch!"
[FONT=&quot]اور البتہ تم ہمارے پاس ایک ایک ہو کر آ گئے ہو جس طرح ہم نے تمہیں پہلی دفعہ پیدا کیا تھا اور جو کچھ ہم نے تمہیں دیا تھا وہ اپنے پیچھے ہی چھوڑ آئے ہو اور تمہارے ساتھ ان کی سفارش کرنے والوں کو نہیں دیکھتے جنہیں تم خیال کرتے تھے کہ وہ تمہارے معاملےمیں شریک ہیں تمہارا آپس میں قطع تعلق ہو گیا ہے اور جو تم خیال کرتے تھے وہ سب جاتا رہا[/FONT]​

And then Allah says:

[FONT=&quot]وَاتَّقُوا يَوْمًا لَّا تَجْزِي نَفْسٌ عَن نَّفْسٍ شَيْئًا وَلَا يُقْبَلُ مِنْهَا شَفَاعَةٌ وَلَا يُؤْخَذُ مِنْهَا عَدْلٌ وَلَا هُمْ يُنصَرُونَ [/FONT](Quran, 2:48)​
[FONT=&quot]Yusuf Ali 48: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Then guard yourselves against a day when one soul shall not avail another nor shall intercession be accepted for her, nor shall compensation be taken from her, nor shall anyone be helped (from outside). [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]اوراس دن سے ڈرو جس دن کوئی شخص کسی کے کچھ بھی کام نہ آئے گا اور نہ ان کے لیے کوئی سفارش قبول ہو گی اورنہ اس کی طرف سے بدلہ لیا جائے گا اور نہ ان کی مدد کی جائے گی[/FONT]

And again:

[FONT=&quot]وَاتَّقُوا يَوْمًا لَّا تَجْزِي نَفْسٌ عَن نَّفْسٍ شَيْئًا وَلَا يُقْبَلُ مِنْهَا عَدْلٌ وَلَا تَنفَعُهَا شَفَاعَةٌ وَلَا هُمْ يُنصَرُونَ [/FONT](Quran, 2:123)​
[FONT=&quot]Yusuf Ali 123: [/FONT]Then guard yourselves against a-Day when one soul shall not avail another, nor shall compensation be accepted from her nor shall intercession profit her nor shall anyone be helped (from outside).
[FONT=&quot]اوراس دن سے ڈرو جس دن کوئی بھی کسی کے کام نہ آئے گا اور نہ اس سے بدلہ قبول کیا جائے گا اور نہ اسے کوئی سفارش نفع دے گی اور نہ وہ مدد دیے جائیں گے[/FONT]

The Quran categorically states that no soul shall have an effect on another:

[FONT=&quot]قُلْ أَغَيْرَ اللَّهِ أَبْغِي رَبًّا وَهُوَ رَبُّ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ ۚ وَلَا تَكْسِبُ كُلُّ نَفْسٍ إِلَّا عَلَيْهَا ۚ وَلَا تَزِرُ وَازِرَةٌ وِزْرَ أُخْرَىٰ ۚ ثُمَّ إِلَىٰ رَبِّكُم مَّرْجِعُكُمْ فَيُنَبِّئُكُم بِمَا كُنتُمْ فِيهِ تَخْتَلِفُونَ [/FONT](Quran, 6:164)​
[FONT=&quot]Yusuf Ali 164: [/FONT]Say: "Shall I seek for (my) Cherisher other than Allah, when He is the Cherisher of all things (that exist)? Every soul draws the meed of its acts on none but itself: no bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another. Your goal in the end is towards Allah. He will tell you the truth of the things wherein ye disputed."

[FONT=&quot]کہہ دو کیا اب میں الله کے سوا اور کوئی رب تلاش کروں حالانکہ وہی ہر چیز کا رب ہے اور جو شخص کوئی گناہ کرے گاتو وہ اسی کے ذمہ ہے اور ایک شخص دوسرے کا بوجھ نہیں اٹھائے گا پھر تمہارے رب کے ہاں ہی سب کو لوٹ کر جانا ہے سو جن باتو ں میں تم جھگڑتے تھے وہ تمہیں بتلاد ے گا[/FONT]​

And again, Allah repeats it: (Quran, 53:38-39)
[FONT=&quot]أَلَّا تَزِرُ وَازِرَةٌ وِزْرَ أُخْرَىٰ [/FONT](Quran, 53:38)​
[FONT=&quot]Yusuf Ali 38: [/FONT]Namely, that no bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another;
[FONT=&quot]وہ یہ کہ کوئی کسی کا بوجھ نہیں اٹھائے گا

[/FONT]​
[FONT=&quot]وَأَن لَّيْسَ لِلْإِنسَانِ إِلَّا مَا سَعَىٰ [/FONT](Quran, 53:39)​
[FONT=&quot]Yusuf Ali 39: [/FONT]That man can have nothing but what he strives for;
[FONT=&quot]اور یہ کہ انسان کو وہی ملتا ہے جو کرتا ہے[/FONT]​

As well as: (Quran, 6:70)
[FONT=&quot]وَذَرِ الَّذِينَ اتَّخَذُوا دِينَهُمْ لَعِبًا وَلَهْوًا وَغَرَّتْهُمُ الْحَيَاةُ الدُّنْيَا ۚ وَذَكِّرْ بِهِ أَن تُبْسَلَ نَفْسٌ بِمَا كَسَبَتْ لَيْسَ لَهَا مِن دُونِ اللَّهِ وَلِيٌّ وَلَا شَفِيعٌ وَإِن تَعْدِلْ كُلَّ عَدْلٍ لَّا يُؤْخَذْ مِنْهَا ۗ أُولَـٰئِكَ الَّذِينَ أُبْسِلُوا بِمَا كَسَبُوا ۖ لَهُمْ شَرَابٌ مِّنْ حَمِيمٍ وَعَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ بِمَا كَانُوا يَكْفُرُونَ [/FONT](Quran, 6:70)​
[FONT=&quot]Yusuf Ali 70:[/FONT]Leave alone those who take their religion to be mere play and amusement, and are deceived by the life of this world. But proclaim (to them) this (truth): that every soul delivers itself to ruin by its own acts: it will find for itself no protector or intercessor except Allah. if it offered every ransom, (or reparation), none will be accepted: such is (the end of) those who deliver themselves to ruin by their own acts: they will have for drink (only) boiling water, and for punishment, one most grievous: for they persisted in rejecting Allah.
[FONT=&quot]اور انہیں چھوڑ دو جنہوں نے اپنے دین کو کھیل اور تماشا بنا رکھا ہے اور دنیاکی زندگی نے انہیں دھوکہ دیا ہے اور انہیں قرآن سے نصیحت کرتا تاکہ کوئی اپنے کیے میں گرفتار نہ ہو جائے کہ اس کے لیے الله کے سوا کوئی دوست اور سفارش کرنے والا نہ ہوگا اور اگر دنیا بھر کا معاوضہ بھی دے گا تب بھی اس سے نہ لیا جائے گا یہی وہ لوگ ہیں جو اپنے کیے میں گرفتار ہوئے ان کے پینے کے لیے گرم پانی ہوگا اور ان کے کفر کے بدلہ میں دردناک عذاب ہو گا[/FONT]​
The Hadiths
The Prophet ([FONT=&quot]صلّى[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]الله[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]عليه[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]وآله[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]وسلّم[/FONT]) declared that people were born inherently equal except by piety and good action (Taqwa). Indeed the best among you is the one with the best character (Taqwa). Listen to me. Did I convey this to you properly?Each one of you who is here must convey this to everyone not present. (Excerpt from the Prophets Last Sermon as in Baihiqi)

The Prophet ([FONT=&quot]صلّى[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]الله[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]عليه[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]وآله[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]وسلّم[/FONT]) said:There are indeed people who boast of their dead ancestors; but in the sight of Allah they are more contemptible than the black beetle that rolls a piece of dung with its nose. Behold, Allah has removed from you the arrogance of the Time of Jahiliyyah (Ignorance) with its boast of ancestral glories. Man is but an Allah-fearing believer or an unfortunate sinner. All people are the children of Adam, and Adam was created out of dust. [At-Tirmidhi and Abu Dawud]

The Prophet ([FONT=&quot]صلّى[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]الله[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]عليه[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]وآله[/FONT] [FONT=&quot]وسلّم[/FONT]) said further: Undoubtedly Allah has removed from you the pride of arrogance of the age of Jahiliyah (ignorance) and the glorification of ancestors. Now people are of two kinds. Either believers who are aware or transgressors who do wrong. You are all the children of Adam and Adam was made of clay If they do not give this up (i.e. pride in ancestors) Allah will consider them lower than the lowly worm which pushes itself through Khara (dung). [Abu Dawud and Tirmidhi]

'A'isha, the wife of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him), reported that the Quraish were concerned about the woman who had committed theft during the lifetime of Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him), in the expedition of Victory (of Mecca). They said: Who would speak to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) about her? They (again) said: Who can dare do this but Usama b Zaid, the loved one of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him)? She was brought to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and Usama b. Zaid spoke about her to him (interceded on her behalf). The colour of the face of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) changed, and he said: Do you intercede in one of the prescribed punishments of Allah? He (Usama) said: 'Messenger of Allah, seek forgiveness for me. When it was dusk. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) stood up and gave an address. He (first) glorified Allah as He deserves, and then said: Now to our topic. This (injustice) destroyed those before you that when any one of (high) rank committed theft among them, they spared him, and when any weak one among them committed theft, they inflicted the prescribed punishment upon him. By Him in Whose Hand is my life, even if Fatima daughter of Muhammad were to commit theft, I would have cut off her hand. He (the Holy Prophet) then commanded about that woman who had committed theft, and her hand was cut off. 'A'isha (further) said: Hers was a good respentance, and she later on married and used to come to me after that, and I conveyed her needs (and problems) to Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). [Sahih Muslim, Book# 017, Hadeeth# 4188]

After reading above verses of Quraan and hadith it would be accusation on Prophet Muhammad
(صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) if some insists that Prophet Muhammad (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) praised and exalted his progeny (آل اولاد) and lineage (حسب نسب). After all, how could the Prophet Muhammad (صلی اللہ علیہ وآلہ وسلم) praise and exalt ([FONT=&quot]مرتبہ[/FONT]) his progeny (آل اولاد) and lineage (حسب نسب) whilst forbidding anyone else from glorifying their lineage?
 

babadeena

Minister (2k+ posts)
We are all converted to Islam. Our forefathers hail from Ghiasa Raam & Company,
it is fact. If we take proportion of Syeds globally, 95 percent will be in sub-continent
self-made and self-proclaimed. Our forefathers were part of this society wherein
gradation and degradation is still ripe and just to project oneself from other society
we attach labels with our names. All are from Ghiasa Raam. This is reality and it is
another matter we sand our necks. Islam does not allow racial and lineage type
superiority. BTW this total caste system is unislamic, so people who practice it
must have a re-thinking of their being "Muslim".
 

QaiserMirza

Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
پاک و ہند سے جو لوگ حج کرنے جایا کرتے تھے انہیں سفر میں سالوں لگ جاتے تھے
اس زمانے میں تیز رفتار سواریاں نہیں ہوتی تھیں ، گھوڑے یا اونٹوں یا پھر پیدل سفر کرتے تھے
حجاز تک پہنچنے میں سال لگ جاتا تھا اور کئی مسافر راستے ہی میں الله کو پیارے ہو جاتے تھے
پھر حجاز میں پہنچ کر فریضہ حج ادا کرنے کے بعد کچھ عرصہ قیام کے بعد واپسی کا سفر پھر اسی طرح
حجاز میں مردوں کو "سید" اور عورتوں کو "سیدہ" کہ کر مخاطب کیا جاتا ہے
یہ حجاج جب واپس اپنے گھروں کو پہنچتے تھے تو خود کو 'حاجی' اور "سید" کہلواتے تھے
پھر ان کی اولاد اپنے نام کے ساتھ "سید" بطور احترام لگا لیتی تھی


آج بھی عرب میڈیا میں "سیدہ اندرا گاندی" لکھا جاتا ہے
کیا اس کا مطلب ہے کہ اندرا گاندی بھی ............. ؟
اگر وینا ملک کسی عرب ملک کے دورے پر جاے تو وہ بھی "سیدہ وینا ملک" کہلانے گی


نبی کریم کے بعد سے اب تک تقریبا ٤٥ نسلیں گزر چکی ہیں
آج کتنے لوگ ہیں جن کو اپنے گزشتہ ٤ نسلوں کے نام معلوم ہیں
جو لوگ اپنے پاس خاندانی شجرہ ہونے کا دعوا کرتے ہیں ان میں کتنی صداقت ہے


'سید' ہونا فخر کی بات ہے
یا "مومن" ہونا
سید ہونا یا آل رسول ہونا بڑآئی کی بات نہیں، نہ ہی یہ کوئی اعلی رتبہ ہے جو کہ قابل فخر ہو
انسان کا صحیح عقیدہ اور عمل ہی اسے الله سے قریب کرتا ہے نہ کے کوئی نسبت
 

Wadaich

Prime Minister (20k+ posts)