Standing for national anthem is shirk

[aamir_uetn]

Re: Standing for National Anthem is shirk, Dr Israr Ahmad

please explain what do you mean by that love for country in natural....??

should the muslims of mumbai and chennai support indian national interst because india is their homeland...???

many renowned indian deviant scholars gave fatwaa that india has the right to rule kashmir and the kashmiri fighters are rebellers....

so are these scholars right because they are speaking in favour of national interest...???



i am punjabi.. so punjab is my watan... so should i raise the flag of punjabism on the logic that love of watan is natural....


the reality is that many people prefer pakistan over islam..

i give you two examples..

first is 2001 attack on afghanistan... pakistan sided with usa against islaam...

that time if you have asked pakistani govt., there answer would have been we are nothing to do with afghan muslims, we have to defend our national interest.. we are here to defend national interest.. we are killing afghan muslims to protect our national security and to defend our national interest...


2nd example is the situation of muslims in burma and chinese province xinjiang.. there the muslims are facing worse atrocities.... but still many people here love china... these people hate india but love china.. if you ask these people that you are raising voice for kashmiri muslims but not for xinjiang muslims....???


you will get reply that we are nothing to do with xinjiang muslims.. it is chinese internal matter... we raise voice for kashmiris not because of islam but because that we want to make kashmir part of pakistan.... we raise voice for kashmiris because our life is for pakistan,pakistan is first of all and we will include kashmir in pakistan to increase the area of pakistan.... increasing area of pakistan is the aim of my life...

please comment...

نیچرل مطلب سب کو اپنے گھر سے پیار ہوتا ہے ، لیکن پاکستان اسلام سے پہلے نہیں ، یہ تو بنا ہی اسلام کے لیے تھا ​

 

[Lil'Genius]

Re: Standing for National Anthem is shirk, Dr Israr Ahmad

with all due respect, Is ke chehrey se nazar ajata hai is ka anjaam. Baqi samajhne walay ke lye kafi hai.

 

[abu zainab]

Re: Standing for National Anthem is shirk, Dr Israr Ahmad

your logic was nothing but a crap
bolded example 1-Prophet PBUH ne Hudaibia agreement ke baad jab mecca ke musalmano per zulm hota tha to kia prophet ne wo log jab aap ke pas madad ke liye ate the kia wapis nahi kardia???

where do you live? cage, forest, desert or space?
we are not living in Islamic Era, it is pre islamic ERA where we live now.
islam is not here as a state.

the incident that Nabipbuh returned the sahaabi abu jandal bin suhail after hudaybiah pact to kuffaar after hudaybiah pact is taken out of context..

very wrong meanings are taken from this incident...

in the following book from page 148 to page page 154, there is a very detailed discussion on this incident....

the author of following book is in saudi arabian prisons.. he was accused of being takfiri, khaariji and promoter of terrorism..

this book actually starts from page 45.. before page 45,there are introductions..

please read from page 148 to page 154 of following book...

http://muwahhidmedia.files.wordpres...ief-of-the-one-that-assists-the-americans.pdf

 

[Imranpak]

Re: Standing for National Anthem is shirk, Dr Israr Ahmad

Likes of Zaid Hamid will insist that Pakistan is not a country but base where Muslim's from around the world will gather to perform miracles(bigsmile) Mr Hamid will tell us how Pakistan is the consequence of fourteen centuries of Muslim dominance and struggle(bigsmile) Islam is again nationalism thereby we should not stand for any flag other then the Islamic one. People will always find ways to protect their nationalistic attitude's.

 

[Raaz]

Re: Standing for National Anthem is shirk, Dr Israr Ahmad

مولوی جب پاگل ہو جاتے ہیں تو ایسی ہی باتیں کرتے ہیں

لیکن اصل میں ان کے پیروکار پاگل ہوتے ہیں جو کسی بھی بات کو نہی سوچتے اور مان لیتے ہیں

 

[Raaz]

Re: Standing for National Anthem is shirk, Dr Israr Ahmad

please explain what do you mean by that love for country in natural....??

should the muslims of mumbai and chennai support indian national interst because india is their homeland...???

many renowned indian deviant scholars gave fatwaa that india has the right to rule kashmir and the kashmiri fighters are rebellers....

so are these scholars right because they are speaking in favour of national interest...???



i am punjabi.. so punjab is my watan... so should i raise the flag of punjabism on the logic that love of watan is natural....


the reality is that many people prefer pakistan over islam..

i give you two examples..

first is 2001 attack on afghanistan... pakistan sided with usa against islaam...

that time if you have asked pakistani govt., there answer would have been we are nothing to do with afghan muslims, we have to defend our national interest.. we are here to defend national interest.. we are killing afghan muslims to protect our national security and to defend our national interest...


2nd example is the situation of muslims in burma and chinese province xinjiang.. there the muslims are facing worse atrocities.... but still many people here love china... these people hate india but love china.. if you ask these people that you are raising voice for kashmiri muslims but not for xinjiang muslims....???


you will get reply that we are nothing to do with xinjiang muslims.. it is chinese internal matter... we raise voice for kashmiris not because of islam but because that we want to make kashmir part of pakistan.... we raise voice for kashmiris because our life is for pakistan,pakistan is first of all and we will include kashmir in pakistan to increase the area of pakistan.... increasing area of pakistan is the aim of my life...

please comment...

نام ابو زینب ، ابو اوشکا ، ابو دھماکہ رکھ لیا ، اور سمجھا کہ سب سے بڑے مسلمان ہو گے

آپ کا ملک آپ کا گھر ہوتا ہے
اور اسی لی قران میں لکھا ہے کہ ان سے لڑو جنہوں نے تمہیں گھروں سے نکالا

جھنڈے کا تعلق صرف زمیں سے ہی نہی مذھب سے بھی ہے

اسی جھنڈے کو اونچا کرنے کے لئے حضرت جعفر طیار کا نام بلند ہوا

کچھ لوگ جہادی طالبان کی ویب سایٹوں سے ہی پاگل ہو جاتے ہیں ، اسلام کا بنیادی نظام ہی نہی پتہ ہوتا​

 

[Raaz]

Re: Standing for National Anthem is shirk, Dr Israr Ahmad

ان تازہ خداؤں میں بڑا سب سے وطن ہے
جو پیرہن اس کا ہے ، وہ مذہب کا کفن ہے

اقوام میں مخلوق خدا بٹتی ہے اس سے
قومیت اسلام کی جڑ کٹتی ہے اس سے​

پھر بھی علامہ اقبال نے پاکستان کے لئے کوشش کی اور ایک علیحدہ ملک بنایا ....کیوں ؟؟؟

الله کی محبت سب سے زیاد ہوتی ہے لیکن اپنے ملک ،وطن ، گھر کی تعظیم کے لئے گھڑے ہونا شرک کیسے ہو گیا

کوئی سجدہ تو نہی کیا جھنڈے کو

کسی بڑے آدمی کے لئے بھی کھڑے ہوتے ہیں تو کیا یہ بھی شرک ہے ؟؟؟


لیکن یہ تو آپ پاکستان کے بارے میں کہ رہی ہیں نا ، ابھی کنیڈین جہدے پر بھی کھڑے ہوں گے

اس وقت چوں بھی نہی کریں گے ، ورنہ نیشنلٹی نہی ملے گی​

 

[atensari]

Re: Standing for National Anthem is shirk, Dr Israr Ahmad

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[IamBack]

Re: Standing for National Anthem is shirk, Dr Israr Ahmad

Exactly. Shirk is what we see when our fellow people pray on aulya's graves and prostrate before self-proclaimed aalims.

and how do you know that people prostrate on Auliya's Grave from intention they Wali is equal to Allah subhantaleh? when I go to any Wali's Grave I go and Kiss his grave, does this means prostrating as Shirk? Do you mean physical positing is the whole Sajda to tag someone as MushriK?

There is difference between Kissing a grave and prostrating. Even there are number of prostrating, remember Shaitan was thinking same as you are thinking when he refused Allah SubhanaTaleh to prostrate Adam A.S and he refused Allah Subhanataleh'r order? Do you think Allah SubhanaTaleh asked angel to commit shirk? Ofcourse NOT.. that was Sujda-e-Tazeem .. by refusing Sajda-e-Tazeem to Adam A.S, he become Satan .. Therefore any prostrating which you do from intent that you are prostrating someone as equal to Allah Subhantalh or worship him/her/that is Shirk.

Kissing a Wali's Grave is not shirk which require physically bending is not a shirk at all , neither Sajda-e-Tazeem to Adam A.S was shirk.

Logic prevails in Islam but for those who have sense.

 

[Mughal1]

Re: Standing for National Anthem is shirk, Dr Israr Ahmad

http://archive.org/details/EnglishTranslationOfTheQuran

 

[blatant]

Re: Standing for National Anthem is shirk, Dr Israr Ahmad

what a load of crap these so called PATRIOTS here are all about !

so you folks speak of Pakistan being in the name of Islam !!!!!! are you guys out of your minds ? or you have started to believe in your social studies and history books too seriously ??

The same Pakistan that was facilitated by none other then BRITISH MONARCHY !

the same islamic pakistan whose first governer general announced allegiance to Allah, khilafat, ..NO sorry..her majesty the queen ...that islamic pakistan you guys defending ?

Was it the same monarch who caused an epic destruction of the actual Islamic way of governence, the khilafat ! ...how can one call a country created and a country announcing allegiance to that monarch be considered as ISLAMIC ?

Yes, the same islamic pakistan where interest based system is the heart and soul of its economy. Has any of you islamic champions read about islamic way of governance and the issue of interest based system ?

The same pakistan has been under the allegience of british and then later US monarchs TILL DATE. And you still call it islamic !

This reminds me of abdul raheem green, another scholar who mentioned as an example his visit to a pakistani marriage. There he witnessed a full show enriched with indian cultures, indian songs, indian dances, alcohol being served, males and females mixing freely and dancing freely. and in the end, a quran was produced from somewhere and held over the bride's head on her way to the car for rukhsati. Yes, that's as much Islamic Pakistan has gotten. If you are happy with that being Islam, then my friends we don't have any discussion and Dr Israr's message is NOT FOR YOU.


Last of all, fine if some of you don't agree with Dr Israr. Go and listen to some other NON POLITICAL and NON GLAMOROUS islamic scholars and listen to what they have to tell about this whole concept of NATIONALISM.

Do not forget, that there never was a saltanat e makkah. The Islamic state extended from East to West. And that was it.

I don't judge your sentiment guys. You all have true intentions, and I have been one among you as well. But there is no excuse for ignorance. And when you read, you are going to be surprised about a few things.

DO NOT THINK DR ISRAR DOESN'T MAKE SENSE BECAUSE WHAT HE SAYS SHATTERS YOUR NORMS. This just tells you there is a lot more that you need to know.

 

[blatant]

Re: Standing for National Anthem is shirk, Dr Israr Ahmad

check out imran hosein's videos on net.

also look for any other major scholar. (please spare the likes of Tahir Ul Qadri though, my humble opinion)

 

[Pakistani1947]

Re: Standing for National Anthem is shirk, Dr Israr Ahmad

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]It is very clear from Qur'aan and Hadeeth that SHIRK is worst of all sins. It is also very clear that there is no forgiveness from this sin. Shouldn't we be very careful to avoid any kind of activity even there a slight doubt that this act may lead to SHIRK. For example, prostrating (سجدہ) the grave, even "ta'azimi" (تعظیمی) has been declared by majority of Ulema as SHIRK. Tell me why would a Muslim take risk of committing SHIRK if that Sijda may lead him to hell??? On the other hand, doing Sijda (سجدہ) to a grave is not a requirement to be successful in Aakhirat (آخرت).[/FONT]​

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[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Message learned: Dr. Israr Ahmed were so afraid of doing any act where there is slight doubt that it may be termed as SHIRK in the Aakhirat (آخرت).[/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Just think about it ....neutrally....[/FONT]
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]May Allah Give Hidayat to all of us.[/FONT]
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کسی کی تعظیم میں کھڑا ہونا ، شریعہ میں "ممنوع" ہے (بحوالہ حدیث) ، مگر علما کے آگے ہاتھ باندھ کر کھڑا ہونا ، جھکنا ، اور قدم بوسی تا ہاتھ چاٹنا ، معہ سجدہ تعظیمی بھی حسب ضرورت جائز ، جانداروں کی عزت و تکریم کا ہر عمل اپنی ذات تک مباح ، جس طرح قران کو روزی کا ذریعہ بنانے پر سرزنش کی حدیث سب ہی جانتے ہیں ، مگر قران فروشی سب ہی ملاؤں کا دھندہ ہے ، اسی طرح تکریم و تعظیم بھی صرف جھنڈے تک ہی شرک بنا ڈالی ، داستان درازی اور دھما چوکڑی مچانا اسے ہی کہتے ہیں ،


کسی غزوے میں ، ایک صحابی کا مسلسل زخم کھانے پر جھنڈے کو تھامے رہنا ، ایک ہاتھ کٹا دوسرا میں تھام لیا ، دوسرا الگ ہوا تو ، دانتوں میں دبا لیا ، مگر جھنڈا آخری دم تک نا چھوڑا ، کیا لوگ تھے ، تفسیریں نہیں لکھیں ، اور نا ہی فلسفہ و تصوف گھڑا ، بس جو سنا ٹھیک ٹھیک سمجھا ، تقریروں سے بے نیاز مگر عمل سے مالا مال


ملک و وطن کے ترانے پر بوجوہ احترام کھڑا ہونا شرک نہیں ، اور نا ہی کوئی قابل کراہت عمل ، جو صاھب اسرار اپنے آگے کھڑا ہونے ہو کو مقدس سمجھتے ہوں ، کارکنان کے چندہ پر خود کو اور اولادوں کو پالنا لازم گردانتے ہوں ، ساری زندگی یزید کی مذمت ، مگر خود جاتے جاتے برخودار کو خلافت سونپ جاتے ہوں ، انہیں اتنی بڑی چھلانگیں زیب نہیں دیتیں ، ​

 

[Pakistani1947]

Re: Standing for National Anthem is shirk, Dr Israr Ahmad

Moderators, pl merge this thread with the older thread:

http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?84729-Standing-for-national-anthem-is-shirk

 

[blatant]

Re: Standing for National Anthem is shirk, Dr Israr Ahmad

I am quoting this nicely made point by someone else earlier.

I think some friends over here are missing to grasp the subtle point of this contention by the late Dr sahab, which is commonly known as “Chauvinism” with the simplistic meaning of excessive pride in Nationalism which of course is not only discouraged but rightly condemned even by the great Prophet pbuh during his blessed life.

This same issue has also been mentioned by the great advocate (Dr Allama Iqbal) of Pan-Islamism in last century where he rightly attacked the concept of Nationalism and attributes it with the concepts of idol worship and burial shroud of Islamic ideology. Therefore the analogies of standing in respect and honour for a symbol or anthem of a nationalistic territory should not be drawn.

Islamic teachings emphasise to give respect, in its exclusive terms, to the concept of divinely ordained community of Islam which is known as Ummat ul Muslimin instead of glorifying and showing respect to those conceptual ideologies which bear the seeds of artificial divide and distances among the humans. The only division which Almighty ordains is based on the belief on Him and His revealed guidance for the mankind through the chain of His exalted Apostles and hence no one can create further caveats among the humanity on any basis including the hollow concept of nationalism. Full Stop