Sharia punishments are the best to deter all sorts of crimes.

[Mulhid]

Okay......... right, sure. You said it and I believed it. Right on bro!

Im not asking you to believe me without evidence, im not Jesus or Mohammed.

I am literally giving you a way out and a way to prove me wrong and end this debate.

Show me that a complete Quran existed before Abbasids and that it hasnt changed.

 

[Citizen X]

We know that Muslims have it save in their hearts in 21st century. And some probably did in the 9th and 10th century.

But how do you know Quran existed in its complete form before that?

To claim that people memorized the Quran in 7th century you first have to prove that a complete Quran existed in the 7th century and that it hasnt changed since.

LOL man another one of those shit statements. I ain't gotta prove shit jack!

 

[Taalib-e-Haq]

Ill pose the same question to you so you guys can all shut me down once and for all.

Find me a copy of Quran that is atleast 95% complete from before time of Abbasids that we can compare to any modern version of Quran, whether it is Duri, Warsh or Hafs with 99% accuracy with either of those modern versions of Qurans.

So we can be sure that atleast one of the modern versions of Qurans we have today was from before Abbassid times. And it will also prove Islam was not created by Abbassids.

Take a few days to research it if you have to and Ill wait.

Why do we need to shut you down? The thirsty person goes to the well, not the other way around. You prove it to yourself whether Islam is true or not. We don't need to prove anything to you. None of us are trying to poke holes in your belief system, although it has more holes than the pauper's pocket.

When you don't believe in the Quran, why do you want be sure it was not "created by the Abbasids".

Brother, to you religion and to us our religion.

 

[Mulhid]

LOL man another one of those shit statements. I ain't gotta prove shit jack!

You definately would if you could.

Im still waiting on any evidence to back up your claim that a complete Quran existed in 7th century and people were memorizing it.

 

[Mulhid]

Amazing banda hai yaar. Kahan se leke ata hai kahanian. Sub kuch apni marzi ka ghara hua, goron ka likha hua. Bohot ziada inferiority complex ka shikar hai.

Ill pose the same question to you so you guys can all shut me down once and for all.

Find me a copy of Quran that is atleast 95% complete from before time of Abbasids that we can compare to any modern version of Quran, whether it is Duri, Warsh or Hafs with 99% accuracy with either of those modern versions of Qurans.

Brother, to you religion and to us our religion.

You said I am making up stories when I said Abbasids compiled the Quran.

Can you provide reference to back your statement?

Every time I ask you for reference you run away.

 

[Mulhid]

The inference that I have provided is the correct exegesis and will stand for all time.

Btw still waiting for you to provide reference from where you got this Tafsir?

 

[Mulhid]

LOL man another one of those shit statements. I ain't gotta prove shit jack!

OR you can just be honest and say there is no evidence of a complete Quran or people memorizing it in 7th century. We just have to trust and rely on the Abbasids that they were telling the truth about the Quran even though they lied about everything else.

 

[Taalib-e-Haq]

Btw still waiting for you to provide reference from where you got this Tafsir?

I responded to you on this. Go do your research. When I asked for references, the way you responded let me know I stepped on somebody's sensitive toes.

I don't anything to prove to you. You can find it in Arabic. You will never find it in english translations.

Kuch mehnat karni paregi apko.

 

[Mulhid]

When I asked for references, the way you responded let me know I stepped on somebody's sensitive toes.

Let me know which reference you are looking for and I will provide it.

 

[Taalib-e-Haq]

You said I am making up stories when I said Abbasids compiled the Quran.

Can you provide reference to back your statement?

Every time I ask you for reference you run away.

Claims are yours, you provide the references. I did not claim Quran is false, or Muhammad did not exist.

I answered your intellectual dishonesty regarding the Verses you quoted out of context. Don't like it, can't help you.

 

[Taalib-e-Haq]

Let me know which reference you are looking for and I will provide it.

I am not looking for any references, I think you are extremely confused.

The person making the claim is you. The person not backing up his claims is you. The person not providing references is you.

Claim khud karte ho aur reference mere se maangte ho. Ashqe bhai ashqe.

 

[Mulhid]

I responded to you on this. Go do your research.

No sir, I asked you for reference for the Tafsir you quoted and you ignored my request.

Every Verse, every hadith and every tafsir I quoted I put the reference and author name next to it.

You quoted a tafsir with no name of author or verse number next to it. When I asked you for it you ignored it.

I think as civilized people its okay to have a difference of opionion but you should atleast be honest about the things you are saying and provide references to back it up when requested instead of hiding it.

 

[Mulhid]

Claims are yours, you provide the references. I did not claim Quran is false, or Muhammad did not exist.

My claim was that according to Islamic tradition, slavery is not haram and was practised by Muhammad and his followers. I think I have provided sufficient reference to prove that beyond doubt.

I quoted several Bukhari Hadiths and Quranic verses with Tafsirs with references to book numbers, verse numbers, hadith numbers and name of authors of the Tafsirs, that Muhammad and his companions and followers kept slaves and some of them even sexually abused them.

And a book that accepts slavery cannot be a guidane for all mankind for all times. Maybe it was just for people of that time.

 

[Taalib-e-Haq]

No sir, I asked you for reference for the Tafsir you quoted and you ignored my request.

Every Verse, every hadith and every tafsir I quoted I put the reference and author name next to it.

You quoted a tafsir with no name of author or verse number next to it. When I asked you for it you ignored it.

I think as civilized people its okay to have a difference of opionion but you should atleast be honest about the things you are saying and provide references to back it up when requested instead of hiding it.

Brother the onus of proof is on the primary claimant in an argument. You don't have an argument from Quran contrary to the explanation I provided for the verses you misquoted.

This is debating 101.

 

[Mulhid]

Brother the onus of proof is on the primary claimant in an argument. You don't have an argument from Quran contrary to the explanation I provided for the verses you misquoted.

This is debating 101.

I dont disagree on that. I provided you with counter arguments and asked you for reference for the tafsir you quoted in your explanation and still waiting for it.

You neither responded to my counter arguments nor my requests for references.

 

[Citizen X]

You definately would if you could.

LOL yeah reverse phycology doesn't work with me. I don't have to do shit mate. You're the one making all the wild baseless accusations!

If anybody has to prove anything its you, which reminds me

Still waiting for those earth shattering revelations and evidences? I dunno why you are so hesitant in revealing those. You would make a very bad lawyer, you have the smoking gun and even upon asking a million times fail to produce it.

F.Y.I : You making up shit does not count as evidence. ?

 

[Taalib-e-Haq]

My claim was that according to Islamic tradition, slavery is not haram and was practised by Muhammad and his followers. I think I have provided sufficient reference to prove that beyond doubt.

I quoted several Bukhari Hadiths and Quranic verses with Tafsirs with references to book numbers, verse numbers, hadith numbers and name of authors of the Tafsirs, that Muhammad and his companions and followers kept slaves and some of them even sexually abused them.

And a book that accepts slavery cannot be a guidane for all mankind for all times. Maybe it was just for people of that time.

Another Claim. All talk and no show.

Based on what principle? The modern western civilization? Descarte and Lock? Hume? Voltaire? Kant? Marx?

 

[Taalib-e-Haq]

I dont disagree on that. I provided you with counter arguments and asked you for reference for the tafsir you quoted in your explanation and still waiting for it.

You neither responded to my counter arguments nor my requests for references.

From the Quran, Brother the Quran. Tafseer ya Hadeeth pe abhi mein ne baat hi nahin ki.

 

[Taalib-e-Haq]

LOL yeah reverse phycology doesn't work with me. I don't have to do shit mate. You're the one making all the wild baseless accusations!

If anybody has to prove anything its you, which reminds me

Still waiting for those earth shattering revelations and evidences? I dunno why you are so hesitant in revealing those. You would make a very bad lawyer, you have the smoking gun and even upon asking a million times fail to produce it.

F.Y.I : You making up shit does not count as evidence. ?

Nahin ayen ge. He makes up stuff on the fly. Kaash Nasha halaal hota to yeh waala zaroor karta.

? ?

 

[Citizen X]

You said I am making up stories when I said Abbasids compiled the Quran.

Can you provide reference to back your statement?

Every time I ask you for reference you run away.

LOL you really don't know how this works, do you? Let me put in a local and national political context that you might understand better.

Nawaz Sharif admits to owning overseas property. Now he had to prove how he got the money and how it was transferred out of the country. He has to do it. It wasn't the prosecutions job.

You are the one making all these wild claims, the burden of proof is on you to prove them, not us!

Got it!