bro i think you should start another post on kashmir singh and give them proof using indian sources ..obviously their media is not going to report it on national tv, their whole world would come crashing down on them ...they dont read ur posts i think ...sometihng to do with brain not being wired properly
Question to the indians ??
- Thread starter furry87
- Start date
--Misuse of any religion by anyone makes ONLY that person responsible and he/she shall pay for it..This has been the classic problem worldwide you get to see two persons doing the same crime as small as a scuffle but the one with a muslim background get's highlighted bigtime and fools are falling for it :oops: [/quote]
why you guys just blaming some individuals for wrong doing try to wrap everything.
would you comment on the ideology that destabilizing your country and ordinary
innocent Muslims are paying price for that.
would you condemn it and suggest some remedy in your national insterst
or comment for the sake of comment
Star Gazer
Chief Minister (5k+ posts)
adonis_look said:
FYI
Pakistan was created from a land ruled by British at the time where earlier Muslims ruled for over 400 hundred years ,what makes you think that Pakistan was carved and taken away from Hindus?? Hindus never ruled on a piece of land called india. So I think your comlaint and argument is illfound and just a resentment over some unfulfilled wishes.
As for the statement that "no one wants 170 million hatred fed people",You are saying that not us.I will repeat for the umpteenth time to you Pakistan does not hate anyone or any country, it is you people who keep suggesting it to yourself and create a mass hyteria over false allegations. Your country divided and created Bangladesh because you wanted to settle some grudge that only you can understand.Do you think we want to inherit 450 million poor from your country,or a population of 80 million child labor,or worlds largest AIDs population or worlds largest prostitute population, or people who razed to ground tha Babri mosque,or the people who burn visitors in trains? I can go on and on and on,but I will let you answer these questions first. Lets see what do you have to say in most dignified way.
sobia403 said:
BIBI, with due respect
pakistan govt in in tourism adds saying
pakistan with history and culture 5000 year old.
which history they are talking about. hadappa and mohanjodaro were
muslim civilizations???
I have no question about sovereignty of pakistan. I respect it as I do for others.
if you belong to that land ,why you guys disown history before muslim invaders came ?
or you guys are not original habitat of that land
taul
Siasat.pk - Blogger
--Are you really that naive NOT to notice the war that has been imposed in neighbouring Afghanistan on complete false pretenses and it's illegal occupation to which they are strongly resisting and the drone attacks that seem to happen every day in Pakistani territories so the Ideology of any normal being is fight back and resist :ugeek: for that matter what is the "ideology" of people fighting in assam and other dozen militancies in other parts and the maoists and naxalites :roll: why there is such a mass unrest in that part of your country :roll:
http://sify.com/news/maoist-unrest-wrec ... ggbii.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
--Why are you poor indians dying to make us believe and embrace the thing which we muslims and Pakistanis do NOT want,for any muslim all his links automatically get connected to only muslim history and civilization :ugeek: and the rest is literally history for all of us :D to make things easier for you if an american or any european reverts to Islam he immediately disowns his previous thinkings and ideals and now gets on a new journey that has all the tenets of Islam in it.
adonis_look
Politcal Worker (100+ posts)
before muslim inavders came I guess farishte used to rule India..
And yes LTTE doesn't swear by Geeta or VEda and doesn't claim they are blowign thesmlevs up for hindu Jihad and are seeking hoories.. In nutshell LTTE never ever even talk abotu any religious motivation for whatever they did..
IF LTTE stars swearing by hindu scriptures for their act they would be called hindu terrorist.. so far they have doen nothign like that..
Bottomline is everythign started once Pakistan army entered kashmir in 1948.. none can deny this..
Pakistan was created form land ruled by British.. ahah.. BiN Qasim kya apne bua ke ghar aaya tha... :-))
And yes LTTE doesn't swear by Geeta or VEda and doesn't claim they are blowign thesmlevs up for hindu Jihad and are seeking hoories.. In nutshell LTTE never ever even talk abotu any religious motivation for whatever they did..
IF LTTE stars swearing by hindu scriptures for their act they would be called hindu terrorist.. so far they have doen nothign like that..
Bottomline is everythign started once Pakistan army entered kashmir in 1948.. none can deny this..
Pakistan was created form land ruled by British.. ahah.. BiN Qasim kya apne bua ke ghar aaya tha... :-))
--Are you really that naive NOT to notice the war that has been imposed in neighbouring Afghanistan on complete false pretenses and it's illegal occupation to which they are strongly resisting and the drone attacks that seem to happen every day in Pakistani territories so the Ideology of any normal being is fight back and resist :ugeek: for that matter what is the "ideology" of people fighting in assam and other parts and the maoists and naxalites :roll: why there is such a mass unrest in that part of your country :roll:
I agree what you are saying (you burnt your house to enlighten your neighbor's house...what a sacrifice)
so guys drains soviets out of afghans with your individual might and help afghanis to form first 100% Islamic state.
and later you guys help american to destroy that 100% islamic state.
what a contradiction.
why not you guys accept that you are on sale , just need money
and will mend religion accordingly to justify everything
and claim yourself leader of muslim UMMA
I agree what you are saying (you burnt your house to enlighten your neighbor's house...what a sacrifice)
so guys drains soviets out of afghans with your individual might and help afghanis to form first 100% Islamic state.
and later you guys help american to destroy that 100% islamic state.
what a contradiction.
why not you guys accept that you are on sale , just need money
and will mend religion accordingly to justify everything
and claim yourself leader of muslim UMMA
taul
Siasat.pk - Blogger
adonis_look said:
-----LTTE is yet again fighting an Indian occupying force who has terrorized the Kashmir region and killed tens of thousands of poor kashmiris and they are fighting against an oppressor and will continue to do so :ugeek: Anybody killing an innocent for no reason will be asked upon the day of judgment and would be duly punished but for ya'll such claims as being representation of Islam would only make you look retard and incompetent and further goes on to show the prejudiced and closed mindset ya'll indians/hindus possess unyielding to any reasoninig,fact or rationale :ugeek:
--Your delusion,incompetence and distortions of facts will NOT even hurt a bit to the basis of fight that has been going on in Kashmir :ugeek:
---Why are the Maoists and Naxalites fighting,being solely representing your hindu scriptures and fighting to their last breath to confront your own poor indian forces i wonder what there reward is by slaying your own people and getting stuck to it or may be the discrimination they are led to face encouraged by your hinduism has something to do with it.. :roll:
--Bottom line is you can NOT digest the very criterion of Pakistan as an independent state as so pathetically uttered by your bharat verma and plenty of hardcore fundamenat hindus who would NOT even let Pakistan play on your grounds and even reflected by the very members of your ruling fundamentalist party BJP whose members were directly involved in the destruction of babri mosque and even gujrat riots :oops:
taul
Siasat.pk - Blogger
--Worry NOT you all poor indians know that very well the reason for it :) we need true leaders who would stand against any body and would NOT cave into any pressure and all the puzzle pieces will be put to place just as before in the history,and that time shall come sooner than later as history tends to repeat it self :ugeek:
--I hope you did NOT find any ideology for all the militancies your fellow hindus are fighting :( spend sometime doing introspection who knows you may find the answer to it :)
taul said:
for true leaders, you need to groom the people with a strong national spirit.
your mullahs has already confused you people too much with ideology of islam.
that convince easily to poor people to kill others people of same motherland.
they don't have loyalty with land or country but religion.
thats why you people are more religious than nationalist.
first make a choics that your true leader will be religious or nationalist.
for INDIA I know what ever hindu or other fundamentalist do or say
majority of Indians (who holds the key to power) thinks
RATTAN TATA (a parsi) is pure patriotic Indian than BAL THAKRAY
taul
Siasat.pk - Blogger
--The leaders need to be groomed according to the true teachings of Islam :ugeek: the only way forward for a just society where rule of law prevails and justice is equal for all leaving no rich corrupt behind.
--Your preconceived and prejudiced and unfortunately closed mind is against Islam as simple as that and you need NOT be hypocrite about it :ugeek: Poor people are being misled everywhere in your country as well to do the killings and then justifying them,gujrat riots and chaotic mess in your northeastern states :cry: I guess your sole obsession with Islam will NOT change the reality on the ground in our country which has never ever been run by any Islamic party and all the mess has been created by the democrats who've badly looted the country and such a fact is well known through out,On the contrary your main party that has been in the power is a pure fundamentalist hindu party BJP,i hope you do NOT support them and vote democratic ( congress).
--Your issue is being an indian/hindu you will NOT yield to any logic and facts and would go keep circling on a fantasy world you have already built in your mind :| that's very detrimental you truly need to use the brain and rationalize each and everything in it's proper context and time :ugeek: Ya'll agitation has led me to wonder as to how you think of poor muslims in your country and with such fixed and quite distorted view you'd certainly make their lives miserable and tough and your prejudices seems to have NO end at all,well no wonder then the gujrat riots and burning of churches.
taul said:
--The leaders need to be groomed according to the true teachings of Islam :ugeek: the only way forward for a just society where rule of law prevails and is equal for all.
how it could be equally for all if your constitution is based on religious discrimination.
your mullas saying hardest words for other religions openly and made blasphemy laws
to prosecute poor people. you should feel proud of that.
keep on dreaming for true leaders.
taul
Siasat.pk - Blogger
pigeon said:
--I guess you are simply way too dumb to even comprehend such a basic concept you can NOT appoint an imam a head of any church :ugeek: since our constitution is based on Islamic principles being a Muslim country a muslim is appointed for such two positions,the rest are open for all as you may have apprised yourself of "rana bhagwandas" whereas your country though NOT religious and calls itself to be secular :lol: still would NOT let any minority to rule the country by making him/her as a PM,you have a long explaination here to pass to all those poor souls especially sonia gandhi :)
--Blasphemy laws are there to control of all such imbeciles and hatemongers who would desperately leave no chance left to create chaos in the society and ruin the harmony.No one has the right to disrespect any of the Prophets in Islam :ugeek: Again we are an Islamic country and we are bound to give due respect to all the Personalities in Islam,try digesting such a trivial fact. every country has their own set of laws which they deem fit to run their people and this is one of ours.
--Hateful speech and making any kinda discriminatory remarks is condemned and even punished in the west :ugeek:
taul said:
I know all the principal of islam an please don't correlate your society with them.
and can go in detail even in that.
I'm convince with other islamic societies who following islam 100%.
and you made your religion based on convenience and opportunism
and may ALLAH almighty BLESS YOU guys to be 100% what you pretend to be.
Bret Hawk
Senator (1k+ posts)
Furry, Taul, Sobia and Other Friends
After viewing and observing the senseless, shallow, despicable and inept remarks & replies from the Indians I have come to this conclusion that any viable and articulate discussion with them is a waste of time and that kind of exercise also insults the intelligence of those persons who fall in to this trap by visualising a reasonable debate with them in the hope of getting some points across in a lucid and clear manner. Ive realised that it would be a exercise in futility to unblock those minds and hearts which have been sealed by the Almighty Himself and no matter even a Prophet comes from the altitudes of the heavens that divine spirit will also most probably fail to convince those ignorant on the matters related to the dogma and theology of Gods faith.
Sometimes I think the so called psychologists would also require doing some major revamps in their academic discipline which particularly pertains to the subject matter of cognition and perception of the mind. Modern psychology is replete with this kind of frivolous theories that every word spoken or written does have some sort of impact on the concerned individual to whom it has been intended to deliver. I think for ignorant and bigot minds no matter what kind of words and actions are used for them it has negligible effect on their psyches and they would more definitely retain their ignorant footings and ideologies. The dark clouds of ignorance for such individuals can only be dispelled by the powerful streams of the light which emanates from the God Himself and sometimes I also forget that no matter how powerful and meaningful my argument would be it might have no effect and influence at all for such repulsive individuals. Such as no matter how much powerful manure and water one use on barren lands those ingredients cant revive the fertility of such infertile lands and hence the corollary can be established in the case of those individuals which unfortunately happens to posses such infertile minds. My salutations for that greatest sage of the mankind, Imam Ali Karam Allah Hu Wajh when he mentioned the same concept about 1400 years ago that to engage an argument with an ignorant is an exercise in futility for a Maumin (A follower of Islam who happens to gain the conviction of its teachings through his sound reasoning and complimented by the firm belief of those teachings through his heart & soul) and he (Maumin) should try to divert his course of way the moment he spot that ignorant person.
After viewing and observing the senseless, shallow, despicable and inept remarks & replies from the Indians I have come to this conclusion that any viable and articulate discussion with them is a waste of time and that kind of exercise also insults the intelligence of those persons who fall in to this trap by visualising a reasonable debate with them in the hope of getting some points across in a lucid and clear manner. Ive realised that it would be a exercise in futility to unblock those minds and hearts which have been sealed by the Almighty Himself and no matter even a Prophet comes from the altitudes of the heavens that divine spirit will also most probably fail to convince those ignorant on the matters related to the dogma and theology of Gods faith.
Sometimes I think the so called psychologists would also require doing some major revamps in their academic discipline which particularly pertains to the subject matter of cognition and perception of the mind. Modern psychology is replete with this kind of frivolous theories that every word spoken or written does have some sort of impact on the concerned individual to whom it has been intended to deliver. I think for ignorant and bigot minds no matter what kind of words and actions are used for them it has negligible effect on their psyches and they would more definitely retain their ignorant footings and ideologies. The dark clouds of ignorance for such individuals can only be dispelled by the powerful streams of the light which emanates from the God Himself and sometimes I also forget that no matter how powerful and meaningful my argument would be it might have no effect and influence at all for such repulsive individuals. Such as no matter how much powerful manure and water one use on barren lands those ingredients cant revive the fertility of such infertile lands and hence the corollary can be established in the case of those individuals which unfortunately happens to posses such infertile minds. My salutations for that greatest sage of the mankind, Imam Ali Karam Allah Hu Wajh when he mentioned the same concept about 1400 years ago that to engage an argument with an ignorant is an exercise in futility for a Maumin (A follower of Islam who happens to gain the conviction of its teachings through his sound reasoning and complimented by the firm belief of those teachings through his heart & soul) and he (Maumin) should try to divert his course of way the moment he spot that ignorant person.
Red_Indian
Citizen
There is the education system, Bret Hawk received 100 percent marks and scholarship on his "HINDU HATING" studies
We are making slow steps towards progress and every now and then we get the recognition from the world. This creates a lot of gas in their stomachs. I am working on an invention that will harness this gas and i will sell them as cooking gas very soon this gas will be in abundance to satisfy world supply.
The Christian Science Monitor, January 21, 2009
"My 7-year-old came home from school one day insisting that Indians are our natural-born enemies, that Muslims are good, and Hindus are evil," the widely traveled journalist recalls. "He asked about the relative strength of our air forces and insisted we would win if it came to war.
"It was only when I asked him whether my Indian friends were also bad," he adds, "that he began to realize that things werent quite so simple."
Public schools, though long neglected, are still responsible for educating the vast majority of schoolchildren. Some 57 percent of boys and 44 percent of girls enroll in primary school, and about 46 percent of boys and 32 percent of girls reach high school.
All public schools must follow the government curriculum one that critics say is inadequate at best, harmful at worst.
An act of parliament that year required all government and private schools (except those teaching the British O-levels from Grade 9) to follow a curriculum that includes learning outcomes for the federally approved Grade 5 social studies class such as: "Acknowledge and identify forces that may be working against Pakistan," "Make speeches on Jihad," "Collect pictures of policemen, soldiers, and national guards," and "Indias evil designs against Pakistan."
"You have a country where generations have grown up believing they are surrounded on all sides by enemies, they are the only righteous ones, and the world is out to get them."
It is this siege mentality that led to some of the head-in-the-sand reactions by the Pakistani media and public in the aftermath of Mumbai, he suggests.
"There was a flat denial that it could be Pakistanis," he says. "Anyone suggesting the contrary was labeled an enemy of the state or unpatriotic. When I said on television there are groups in this country dedicated to harming India the furor was quite astonishing."
Amanullah Kariapper, a young software engineer and cofounder of Young Professionals of Lahore, an informal alliance dedicated to human rights causes, agrees.
Mr. Kariapper says he began revising his world views when he went to college, first at the Lahore University of Management Sciences (LUMS) and later in Grenoble, France. The process came full circle when he was briefly arrested in November 2007 for protesting former President Pervez Musharrafs declaration of emergency and suspension of civil rights.
General Zias curriculum was inherited by the successive governments of Benazir Bhutto, Nawaz Sharif, General Musharraf, and now, Asif Ali Zardari.
An Islamist alphabet chart published in this months Newsline shows Urdu letters accompanied by guns, daggers, and a depiction of planes crashing into the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001. The chart is not approved by the government. But it is, the article claims, in use by "by some regular schools as well as madrassahs associated with the Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam, an Islamic political party that had allied itself with General Musharraf." The Ministry of Education says there are 1.5 million students in 13,000 madrassahs acquiring a parallel religious education.
Critics also complain about insensitivity toward minorities. A section on Christian festivities in the Federal Ethics textbooks had been removed, according to a Daily Times report from 2006 titled "O Jesus, where art thou?" Hindu and Sikh festivals were mentioned only fleetingly.
In the latest edition of Pakistan Studies for Grades 9-10, approved by the Punjab textbook board, all mention of non-Muslim festivals of Pakistan had been removed. Hindus and Christians make up about 5 percent of the population of more than 170 million.
In 2007, two Pakistani students at Middlebury College, Hamza Usmani and Shujaat Ali Khan, embarked on a review of all state-sanctioned texts in a project called "Enlightened Pakistan."
They enlisted contacts ranging from seniors in high school to teachers. The bulk of their report (http://www.enlightenedpakistan.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), targets poor teaching in sciences, languages, and math. But in social sciences and history, they found "disturbing" themes like "Pakistan is for Muslims alone," "The world is collectively scheming against Pakistan and Islam," and "Muslims are urged to fight Jihad against the infidels."
The report notes that the textbooks routinely engage in historical revisionism and place questions designed to portray Hinduism as an inherently iniquitous religion: "There is no place for equality in Hinduism. Right/Wrong."
Mr. Usmani says the texts encourage illiberal worldviews and "dumb down" education. "No opposing views are presented, no differing ideas. It makes the population less intelligent," he says.
But Rasul Baksh Rais, a professor at LUMS, argues that every nation has the right to construct its own historical narrative as part of the legitimate process of nation-building. "Perhaps they [the critics] simply dont want us to be on that track at all or they want us be a very confused nation. Its a negative attitude toward Pakistan," he says, adding he has yet to see proof of anti-India or anti-Hindu bias.
"The roots of Pakistani resentment toward India lie in causes such as the conflict in Kashmir and the ongoing oppression of Muslims," says Mr. Rais.
Mr. Usmani says its a case of how far one goes. "All nations need to support their national fabric. But you have to draw the line somewhere. Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia these are not examples you want to emulate. This debate is about where to draw that line."
Amir Raza Malik, a Ministry of Education spokesman, declined to comment on previous curriculums, but said the Ministry was preparing an overhaul that would be unveiled in 2010. "If there is any objectionable material, it would certainly be removed," he says.
We are making slow steps towards progress and every now and then we get the recognition from the world. This creates a lot of gas in their stomachs. I am working on an invention that will harness this gas and i will sell them as cooking gas very soon this gas will be in abundance to satisfy world supply.
The Christian Science Monitor, January 21, 2009
"My 7-year-old came home from school one day insisting that Indians are our natural-born enemies, that Muslims are good, and Hindus are evil," the widely traveled journalist recalls. "He asked about the relative strength of our air forces and insisted we would win if it came to war.
"It was only when I asked him whether my Indian friends were also bad," he adds, "that he began to realize that things werent quite so simple."
Public schools, though long neglected, are still responsible for educating the vast majority of schoolchildren. Some 57 percent of boys and 44 percent of girls enroll in primary school, and about 46 percent of boys and 32 percent of girls reach high school.
All public schools must follow the government curriculum one that critics say is inadequate at best, harmful at worst.
An act of parliament that year required all government and private schools (except those teaching the British O-levels from Grade 9) to follow a curriculum that includes learning outcomes for the federally approved Grade 5 social studies class such as: "Acknowledge and identify forces that may be working against Pakistan," "Make speeches on Jihad," "Collect pictures of policemen, soldiers, and national guards," and "Indias evil designs against Pakistan."
"You have a country where generations have grown up believing they are surrounded on all sides by enemies, they are the only righteous ones, and the world is out to get them."
It is this siege mentality that led to some of the head-in-the-sand reactions by the Pakistani media and public in the aftermath of Mumbai, he suggests.
"There was a flat denial that it could be Pakistanis," he says. "Anyone suggesting the contrary was labeled an enemy of the state or unpatriotic. When I said on television there are groups in this country dedicated to harming India the furor was quite astonishing."
Amanullah Kariapper, a young software engineer and cofounder of Young Professionals of Lahore, an informal alliance dedicated to human rights causes, agrees.
Mr. Kariapper says he began revising his world views when he went to college, first at the Lahore University of Management Sciences (LUMS) and later in Grenoble, France. The process came full circle when he was briefly arrested in November 2007 for protesting former President Pervez Musharrafs declaration of emergency and suspension of civil rights.
General Zias curriculum was inherited by the successive governments of Benazir Bhutto, Nawaz Sharif, General Musharraf, and now, Asif Ali Zardari.
An Islamist alphabet chart published in this months Newsline shows Urdu letters accompanied by guns, daggers, and a depiction of planes crashing into the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001. The chart is not approved by the government. But it is, the article claims, in use by "by some regular schools as well as madrassahs associated with the Jamiat Ulema-e-Islam, an Islamic political party that had allied itself with General Musharraf." The Ministry of Education says there are 1.5 million students in 13,000 madrassahs acquiring a parallel religious education.
Critics also complain about insensitivity toward minorities. A section on Christian festivities in the Federal Ethics textbooks had been removed, according to a Daily Times report from 2006 titled "O Jesus, where art thou?" Hindu and Sikh festivals were mentioned only fleetingly.
In the latest edition of Pakistan Studies for Grades 9-10, approved by the Punjab textbook board, all mention of non-Muslim festivals of Pakistan had been removed. Hindus and Christians make up about 5 percent of the population of more than 170 million.
In 2007, two Pakistani students at Middlebury College, Hamza Usmani and Shujaat Ali Khan, embarked on a review of all state-sanctioned texts in a project called "Enlightened Pakistan."
They enlisted contacts ranging from seniors in high school to teachers. The bulk of their report (http://www.enlightenedpakistan.org" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;), targets poor teaching in sciences, languages, and math. But in social sciences and history, they found "disturbing" themes like "Pakistan is for Muslims alone," "The world is collectively scheming against Pakistan and Islam," and "Muslims are urged to fight Jihad against the infidels."
The report notes that the textbooks routinely engage in historical revisionism and place questions designed to portray Hinduism as an inherently iniquitous religion: "There is no place for equality in Hinduism. Right/Wrong."
Mr. Usmani says the texts encourage illiberal worldviews and "dumb down" education. "No opposing views are presented, no differing ideas. It makes the population less intelligent," he says.
But Rasul Baksh Rais, a professor at LUMS, argues that every nation has the right to construct its own historical narrative as part of the legitimate process of nation-building. "Perhaps they [the critics] simply dont want us to be on that track at all or they want us be a very confused nation. Its a negative attitude toward Pakistan," he says, adding he has yet to see proof of anti-India or anti-Hindu bias.
"The roots of Pakistani resentment toward India lie in causes such as the conflict in Kashmir and the ongoing oppression of Muslims," says Mr. Rais.
Mr. Usmani says its a case of how far one goes. "All nations need to support their national fabric. But you have to draw the line somewhere. Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia these are not examples you want to emulate. This debate is about where to draw that line."
Amir Raza Malik, a Ministry of Education spokesman, declined to comment on previous curriculums, but said the Ministry was preparing an overhaul that would be unveiled in 2010. "If there is any objectionable material, it would certainly be removed," he says.
pigeon said:
why you guys just blaming some individuals for wrong doing try to wrap everything.
would you comment on the ideology that destabilizing your country and ordinary
innocent Muslims are paying price for that.
would you condemn it and suggest some remedy in your national insterst
or comment for the sake of comment[/quote]
we are blaming you because that is ur whole plan of attack and you do it on purpose
