Open Challenge to SAFMA to prove Quaid-e-Azam secular!

[desicad]

It hardly matters whether jinnah was secular or not and the debate will keep going on,
what matters now is what majority in pakistan want, a secular or islamic state?

 

[Mughal1]

It hardly matters whether jinnah was secular or not and the debate will keep going on,
what matters now is what majority in pakistan want, a secular or islamic state?

Dear desicard, it does matter whether jinnah was secular or not otherwise why would he create a separate state for muslims?

If he wanted secularism india was ok for him to live in or even britain or anywhere else in such like countries that were doing ok.

By claiming that jinnah was a secularist you give rise to many other questions that cannot be answered. No secularist would want to save a people who would be troublesome for secularism itself. If jinnah really thought secularism was great then he would fight for it not against it.

So the real question is what if jinnah was a secularist? The answers of questions like these will put the final nail in the coffin of this debate once and for all.

Jinnah was even offered position of prime minister by gandhi if he gave up idea of pakistan. He was also aware that he has not longh to live due to his illness.

Our real debate is whether we defeat mullaism or not so that we could implement in pakistan islamic rule of law as was explained by jinnah himself.

Mullah is any person who follows imperialist so called islamic laws as stated in books of fiqh for past so many centuries. I have explained in another thread what is meant by islamic state.

So kindly think over this whole thing taking some time and hopefully you will arrive at a right conclusion.

regards and the best.

 

[Unicorn]

Dear desicard, it does matter whether jinnah was secular or not otherwise why would he create a separate state for muslims?

If he wanted secularism india was ok for him to live in or even britain or anywhere else in such like countries that were doing ok.

By claiming that jinnah was a secularist you give rise to many other questions that cannot be answered. No secularist would want to save a people who would be troublesome for secularism itself. If jinnah really thought secularism was great then he would fight for it not against it.

So the real question is what if jinnah was a secularist? The answers of questions like these will put the final nail in the coffin of this debate once and for all.

Jinnah was even offered position of prime minister by gandhi if he gave up idea of pakistan. He was also aware that he has not longh to live due to his illness.

Our real debate is whether we defeat mullaism or not so that we could implement in pakistan islamic rule of law as was explained by jinnah himself.

Mullah is any person who follows imperialist so called islamic laws as stated in books of fiqh for past so many centuries. I have explained in another thread what is meant by islamic state.

So kindly think over this whole thing taking some time and hopefully you will arrive at a right conclusion.

regards and the best.

Mr. Mughal, you are completely wrong on this one.

Mr. Jinnah along with Iqbal had presented 14 points that should be enshrined in the constitution. Go and read those 14 point proposal of Mr. Jinnah. Each and every point is designed to safeguard the " Political and economical" interests for Muslims there is not an iota about " Islamic interests" in each of those points.

Had the congress accepted those points we would not be discussing this matter today. None of us has the ability to contemplate today what India would be like today had the congress accepted those points no apple to apple comparison can be made any would be apple to orange.

Therefore your beliefs are completely unfounded and have absolutely no merit.

I on the other side believe the congress made the correct decision by rejecting his proposal because it would not have benefited anyone.

 

[only_truths]

Minority issue is now not relevant from 15 percent minorities at partition to know four percent in another ten years there will be non.

I really don't understand why these irrelevant percentage do not apply for refugee status in western countries? Why can't India accept these Hindus (including Ahmadiya) who want to migrate now peacefully ?

 

[only_truths]

That was his spell. You quoted one example. What he is saying in this example is not preaching secularism. Please do'nt mislead. I can qoute hundreds of his sayings where he said that this country (Pakistan) is aquired in the name of Islam. Only few examples are given here:-

The vital contest in which we are engaged is not only for the material gain but also the very existence of the soul of Muslim nation, Hence I have said often that it is a matter of life and death to the Musalmans and is not a counter for bargaining.
Predisential Address devlivered at the Special Pakistan Session of the Punjab Muslim Students Federation
March 2, 1941


Pakistan not only means freedom and independce but the Muslim Ideology which has to be preserved, which has come to us as a precious gift and treasure and which, we hope other will share with us
Message to Frontier Muslim Students Federation
June 18, 1945



You have to stand guard over the development and maintenance of Islamic democracy, Islamic social justice and the equality of manhood in your own native soil. With faith, discipline and selfless devotion to duty, there is nothing worthwhile that you cannot achieve.
Address to the officers and men of the 5th Heavy Ack Ack and 6th Light Ack Ack Regiments in Malir, Karachi
February 21, 1948


We must work our destiny in our own way and present to the world an economic system based on true Islamic concept of equality of manhood and social justice. We will thereby be fulfilling our mission as Muslims and giving to humanity the message of peace which alone can save it and secure the welfare, happiness and prosperity of mankind
Speech at the opening ceremony of State Bank of Pakistan, Karachi
July 1, 1948

If these speeches were to be believed, then God Bless Pakistan.

 

[Unicorn]

I really don't understand why these irrelevant percentage do not apply for refugee status in western countries? Why can't India accept these Hindus (including Ahmadiya) who want to migrate now peacefully ?

They trickle down slowly there are many Hindus, Sikhs, Ahmadis, and a few Christians have made it to Punjab. I hope there is never a large scale exodus that will cause huge problems economically and will cause a huge backlash against Muslims in India. A slow trickle is the best way.

 

[only_truths]

T A slow trickle is the best way.

I agree......................

 

[Altaf Lutfi]

I feel tired reading and feel distasteful, commenting on the matter as it has been one of the proven most struggled issue fought-over for a million times and result has always been zero. You are right beyond doubt that Quaid-e-Azam was not secular, but he was not a religieous exhibitionist either. Like a sober, humble and learned person, commanding masses devided over beliefs, he carefully remained a father figure acceptable to all. He suggested Isamic Rules and disciplin to be the basis of our constitution because majority was muslims and he believed that Islamic laws enforced will effectively protect non-muslims, deliver justice and evolve a positive environmnt for a healthy society. In current situation it is rather an act of embarrassment to bring this issue forward because we moved 180 degree opposite to what he said or better what Allah Almighty ordered us to follow.Today's question is not who really Quaid was or if Islamic Laws are the solution, the question must be whether Pkistan can survive as a foreign sattelite ? where is bread for poor ? who will deliver justice in lower courts ? Will we ever be able to walk among other nations with chins up ?? I see no point in chasing theoretical dreamy issues, why not look at ourselves as of today and offer practical solutions for REAL problems on hand ?

 

[Humi]

His speech to teh first constituent assembly and 100% authentic unlike the death bed stories about khilafat-e-rashda system.. and teh speech about banking model is about that model only... im not in favour of forcing islam on teh state but im against the current economic model of numbers and credit....
thats shud be enuff for his vision about pakistan ..

also his appearance.... he is wearing western clothes.... so if u ask any islamic scholar he says imitating what non muslims wear is not permissable... and wil quaotes numerous hadiths and ayats...

isnt that enuff proof he was secular...

two nation theories still stands... two nation theory has nothing to do with islamic state.. it has to do with muslim majority and hindu majority political rights... just liek currentl we have
n-nation theory in pakistan.... where balochis are fightng for their rights and sindhis cry for theirs and muhajris in karachi demand theirs, hazara ppl etc etc etc

Millions of Muslims live in foreign countries who wear western clothes...are you going to say that means every single one of them is secular? I wear western clothes and I say a big no to secularism. Just because he did something that isn't permissible in Islam, does not make him secular. You are not allowed to lie in Islam either but lmost every muslim alive today lies once in a while, does that mean every single muslim in the whole world is secular?

 

[Humi]

You are absolutely right. His speech to the assembly is completely secular and as a secular person I can attest to this. I have read the text, however, he has made other speeches, if authentic, would not qualify as secular.

Therefore this debate can not be won. If I was a judge I would render the verdict for secularism considering the fact that as a politician he made speeches depending on the type of audience but the speech made to the lawmakers will carry the most weight.

hey//do u have a link to that speech? i would like to read it myself..

 

[Humi]

Don't understand why there is so much hue and cry and paranoia over secularism in pakistan?
If the non secularists are confident that they are in formidable majority then no way the the liberals or secularists will be able to stop pakistan from being a islamic or non secular state.

they are not in majority...sure, many wouldnt want an Islamic system but they do frown over a state of complete secularism as well...and sometimes a small group of people can make a huge diff if the other party is silent...that is the main concern..

 

[Mughal1]

Mr. Mughal, you are completely wrong on this one.

Mr. Jinnah along with Iqbal had presented 14 points that should be enshrined in the constitution. Go and read those 14 point proposal of Mr. Jinnah. Each and every point is designed to safeguard the " Political and economical" interests for Muslims there is not an iota about " Islamic interests" in each of those points.

Had the congress accepted those points we would not be discussing this matter today. None of us has the ability to contemplate today what India would be like today had the congress accepted those points no apple to apple comparison can be made any would be apple to orange.

Therefore your beliefs are completely unfounded and have absolutely no merit.

I on the other side believe the congress made the correct decision by rejecting his proposal because it would not have benefited anyone.

Dear Unicorn, you are coming up with silly points one after the other. Would you please realise that people are people and we all learn through life experience through interaction with each other in the natural environment that we find ourselves in.

Had you asked me these questions 6 decades earlier, you would not understand my answers and probably you were not even born yet. Likewise sir seyyed, iqbal, jinnah were all humans who developed biologically as well as psychologically. They changed their minds as we do when they came to know or realised more things.

It was not that as soon as iqbal was born he said he wants pakistan. Therefore it is stupid to take things out of their proper context. I myself come from a particular muslim sect but over life time I changed my views about things as I became more informed and learned how to put things together to make better sense of things. So you cannot hold against me my sectarianism just because once upon a time I had those ideas. Likewise once upon a time like you I too thought secularism is everything because my islam was based upon mullaism which did not stand my examination and finally I realised islam was not what I was taught since my childhood but it was some thing very different once I became better informed about it.

Please forgive me for my assumption but you too may be became unhappy with hinduism and saw nothing better than secularism as it was portrayed through various channels but are still hesitant to study islam because you think it too is also a religion like hinduism or any other religion that you come from. So may be you should take some time out and learn arabic and go through the quranic text and see if it is anything at all like any other religion. You may even end up with better explanation of islam than me.

Secularism appears to be anti religion because you think priest are talking rubbish and they use and abuse their people, however that is a big mistake because secularism is yet more evil than religious rubbish because in worldly matters you are building your life on skulls of many others. It is much more exploitative and abusive than religions against which people protest and fight in the name of secularism. It is good that you have saved yourself from priests but one day you will try to save yourself from these vultures as well when it dawns upon you that you are out of frying pan into the fire. Nonetheless this process takes its time, short or long depends how quickly things happen in your life and how good you are at observing things and learning and then readjusting your relative position in order to be on the better side of things.

If you really read my posts and thought over points that I raised you will come to know that I am speaking from a very wide angle.

So your pushing of secularism in pakistan is not here not there because pakistan is now here and it was created on two nation theory and the theory is describes and explained by the people involved themselves.

The real debate is now between muslims of pakistan as to what is next phase. Here your point is out of place because if pakistan was created for implementation of islam as it was understood by the leadership of creators of paksitan then that is what jinnah explained in national assembly speech.

You will better understand my point if you look at human development in its own environment. Wherever you are born it takes you time to understand your surroundings and keep adjusting to fit in. However there comes a time when some want to go beyond fitting in and that is when they come up with lists of what is stopping them from going further so they look for ways of rebelling against those constraints. They slowly step in to a completely new territory and are on their own. From here on one is totally on his own till one has found a way. It then depends on how far one is gone away from one's community and is it possible to take one's community along that way. Some times it is the same person who has the idea is also able to implement it but at other times may be others will after understanding it. Such was the combination of iqbal and jinnah. Jinnah was secular and nationlist and so was iqbal but iqbal was the one who realised that this was not the way to go because he saw a better opportunity which jinnah was to be convinced about.

Till iqbal managed to convince jinnah, jinnah was secular nationalist but afterwards he was anti mullaha but for islam and anti secularism.

Hope this explains for you and others some interesting points to think about. regards and all the best.

 

[Humi]

It hardly matters whether jinnah was secular or not and the debate will keep going on,
what matters now is what majority in pakistan want, a secular or islamic state?

Well said..I dont know why people waste so much time on what our leaders wanted or didnt want...look at America...what hopes the founding fathers had for it and now the American dream is sinking..:lol:

 

[desicad]

they are not in majority...sure, many wouldnt want an Islamic system but they do frown over a state of complete secularism as well....

You don't want an islamic system and you also don't want secular state....so what actually you want?....do you know or you are confused?

and sometimes a small group of people can make a huge diff if the other party is silent...that is the main concern..

If you observe the other party (one in majority) is actually more vocal.... so no chance for the secularists......

 

[Humi]

You don't want an islamic system and you also don't want secular state....so what actually you want?....do you know or you are confused?

If you observe the other party (one in majority) is actually more vocal.... so no chance for the secularists......

Oh, I know what I want..(bigsmile)...most people want a balance between the two is what I meant...
and no, i disagree with you..if you watch Pakistani media regularly, complete secularism is given as the solution most of the time...

 

[Unicorn]

hey//do u have a link to that speech? i would like to read it myself..

[h=2]Mr. Jinnah's presidential address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan[/h][h=3]August 11, 1947[/h]

---

Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen!
I cordially thank you, with the utmost sincerity, for the honour you have conferred upon me - the greatest honour that is possible to confer - by electing me as your first President. I also thank those leaders who have spoken in appreciation of my services and their personal references to me. I sincerely hope that with your support and your co-operation we shall make this Constituent Assembly an example to the world. The Constituent Assembly has got two main functions to perform. The first is the very onerous and responsible task of framing the future constitution of Pakistan and the second of functioning as a full and complete sovereign body as the Federal Legislature of Pakistan. We have to do the best we can in adopting a provisional constitution for the Federal Legislature of Pakistan. You know really that not only we ourselves are wondering but, I think, the whole world is wondering at this unprecedented cyclonic revolution which has brought about the clan of creating and establishing two independent sovereign Dominions in this sub-continent. As it is, it has been unprecedented; there is no parallel in the history of the world. This mighty sub-continent with all kinds of inhabitants has been brought under a plan which is titanic, unknown, unparalleled. And what is very important with regards to it is that we have achieved it peacefully and by means of an evolution of the greatest possible character.
Dealing with our first function in this Assembly, I cannot make any well-considered pronouncement at this moment, but I shall say a few things as they occur to me. The first and the foremost thing that I would like to emphasize is this: remember that you are now a sovereign legislative body and you have got all the powers. It, therefore, places on you the gravest responsibility as to how you should take your decisions. The first observation that I would like to make is this: You will no doubt agree with me that the first duty of a government is to maintain law and order, so that the life, property and religious beliefs of its subjects are fully protected by the State.
The second thing that occurs to me is this: One of the biggest curses from which India is suffering - I do not say that other countries are free from it, but, I think our condition is much worse - is bribery and corruption. That really is a poison. We must put that down with an iron hand and I hope that you will take adequate measures as soon as it is possible for this Assembly to do so.
Black-marketing is another curse. Well, I know that blackmarketeers are frequently caught and punished. Judicial sentences are passed or sometimes fines only are imposed. Now you have to tackle this monster, which today is a colossal crime against society, in our distressed conditions, when we constantly face shortage of food and other essential commodities of life. A citizen who does black-marketing commits, I think, a greater crime than the biggest and most grievous of crimes. These blackmarketeers are really knowing, intelligent and ordinarily responsible people, and when they indulge in black-marketing, I think they ought to be very severely punished, because the entire system of control and regulation of foodstuffs and essential commodities, and cause wholesale starvation and want and even death.
The next thing that strikes me is this: Here again it is a legacy which has been passed on to us. Along with many other things, good and bad, has arrived this great evil, the evil of nepotism and jobbery. I want to make it quite clear that I shall never tolerate any kind of jobbery, nepotism or any any influence directly of indirectly brought to bear upon me. Whenever I will find that such a practice is in vogue or is continuing anywhere, low or high, I shall certainly not countenance it.
I know there are people who do not quite agree with the division of India and the partition of the Punjab and Bengal. Much has been said against it, but now that it has been accepted, it is the duty of everyone of us to loyally abide by it and honourably act according to the agreement which is now final and binding on all. But you must remember, as I have said, that this mighty revolution that has taken place is unprecedented. One can quite understand the feeling that exists between the two communities wherever one community is in majority and the other is in minority. But the question is, whether it was possible or practicable to act otherwise than what has been done, A division had to take place. On both sides, in Hindustan and Pakistan, there are sections of people who may not agree with it, who may not like it, but in my judgement there was no other solution and I am sure future history will record is verdict in favour of it. And what is more, it will be proved by actual experience as we go on that was the only solution of India's constitutional problem. Any idea of a united India could never have worked and in my judgement it would have led us to terrific disaster. Maybe that view is correct; maybe it is not; that remains to be seen. All the same, in this division it was impossible to avoid the question of minorities being in one Dominion or the other. Now that was unavoidable. There is no other solution. Now what shall we do? Now, if we want to make this great State of Pakistan happy and prosperous, we should wholly and solely concentrate on the well-being of the people, and especially of the masses and the poor. If you will work in co-operation, forgetting the past, burying the hatchet, you are bound to succeed. If you change your past and work together in a spirit that everyone of you, no matter to what community he belongs, no matter what relations he had with you in the past, no matter what is his colour, caste or creed, is first, second and last a citizen of this State with equal rights, privileges, and obligations, there will be on end to the progress you will make.
I cannot emphasize it too much. We should begin to work in that spirit and in course of time all these angularities of the majority and minority communities, the Hindu community and the Muslim community, because even as regards Muslims you have Pathans, Punjabis, Shias, Sunnis and so on, and among the Hindus you have Brahmins, Vashnavas, Khatris, also Bengalis, Madrasis and so on, will vanish. Indeed if you ask me, this has been the biggest hindrance in the way of India to attain the freedom and independence and but for this we would have been free people long long ago. No power can hold another nation, and specially a nation of 400 million souls in subjection; nobody could have conquered you, and even if it had happened, nobody could have continued its hold on you for any length of time, but for this. Therefore, we must learn a lesson from this. You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place or worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed that has nothing to do with the business of the State. As you know, history shows that in England, conditions, some time ago, were much worse than those prevailing in India today. The Roman Catholics and the Protestants persecuted each other. Even now there are some States in existence where there are discriminations made and bars imposed against a particular class. Thank God, we are not starting in those days. We are starting in the days where there is no discrimination, no distinction between one community and another, no discrimination between one caste or creed and another. We are starting with this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one State. The people of England in course of time had to face the realities of the situation and had to discharge the responsibilities and burdens placed upon them by the government of their country and they went through that fire step by step. Today, you might say with justice that Roman Catholics and Protestants do not exist; what exists now is that every man is a citizen, an equal citizen of Great Britain and they are all members of the Nation.

Now I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State.

Well, gentlemen, I do not wish to take up any more of your time and thank you again for the honour you have done to me. I shall always be guided by the principles of justice and fairplay without any, as is put in the political language, prejudice or ill-will, in other words, partiality or favouritism. My guiding principle will be justice and complete impartiality, and I am sure that with your support and co-operation, I can look forward to Pakistan becoming one of the greatest nations of the world.

http://www.insaf.pk/Media/InsafBlog...tituent-Assembly-of-Pakistan-August-1947.aspx

 

[desicad]

Oh, I know what I want..(bigsmile)...most people want a balance between the two is what I meant...
and no, i disagree with you..if you watch Pakistani media regularly, complete secularism is given as the solution most of the time...

It is a general statement that most people want balance, but nobody has any idea what that balance is. Why not go for a complete islamic system, why are you afraid of that?
Only a handful of journalists are making noise about secularism as I see on your media....no major political party or awam and mainstream media is talking about changing islamic republic of pakistan into a secular state.....

 

[Unicorn]

Dear Unicorn, you are coming up with silly points one after the other. Would you please realise that people are people and we all learn through life experience through interaction with each other in the natural environment that we find ourselves in.

Had you asked me these questions 6 decades earlier, you would not understand my answers and probably you were not even born yet. Likewise sir seyyed, iqbal, jinnah were all humans who developed biologically as well as psychologically. They changed their minds as we do when they came to know or realised more things.

It was not that as soon as iqbal was born he said he wants pakistan. Therefore it is stupid to take things out of their proper context. I myself come from a particular muslim sect but over life time I changed my views about things as I became more informed and learned how to put things together to make better sense of things. So you cannot hold against me my sectarianism just because once upon a time I had those ideas. Likewise once upon a time like you I too thought secularism is everything because my islam was based upon mullaism which did not stand my examination and finally I realised islam was not what I was taught since my childhood but it was some thing very different once I became better informed about it.

Please forgive me for my assumption but you too may be became unhappy with hinduism and saw nothing better than secularism as it was portrayed through various channels but are still hesitant to study islam because you think it too is also a religion like hinduism or any other religion that you come from. So may be you should take some time out and learn arabic and go through the quranic text and see if it is anything at all like any other religion. You may even end up with better explanation of islam than me.

Secularism appears to be anti religion because you think priest are talking rubbish and they use and abuse their people, however that is a big mistake because secularism is yet more evil than religious rubbish because in worldly matters you are building your life on skulls of many others. It is much more exploitative and abusive than religions against which people protest and fight in the name of secularism. It is good that you have saved yourself from priests but one day you will try to save yourself from these vultures as well when it dawns upon you that you are out of frying pan into the fire. Nonetheless this process takes its time, short or long depends how quickly things happen in your life and how good you are at observing things and learning and then readjusting your relative position in order to be on the better side of things.

If you really read my posts and thought over points that I raised you will come to know that I am speaking from a very wide angle.

So your pushing of secularism in pakistan is not here not there because pakistan is now here and it was created on two nation theory and the theory is describes and explained by the people involved themselves.

The real debate is now between muslims of pakistan as to what is next phase. Here your point is out of place because if pakistan was created for implementation of islam as it was understood by the leadership of creators of paksitan then that is what jinnah explained in national assembly speech.

You will better understand my point if you look at human development in its own environment. Wherever you are born it takes you time to understand your surroundings and keep adjusting to fit in. However there comes a time when some want to go beyond fitting in and that is when they come up with lists of what is stopping them from going further so they look for ways of rebelling against those constraints. They slowly step in to a completely new territory and are on their own. From here on one is totally on his own till one has found a way. It then depends on how far one is gone away from one's community and is it possible to take one's community along that way. Some times it is the same person who has the idea is also able to implement it but at other times may be others will after understanding it. Such was the combination of iqbal and jinnah. Jinnah was secular and nationlist and so was iqbal but iqbal was the one who realised that this was not the way to go because he saw a better opportunity which jinnah was to be convinced about.

Till iqbal managed to convince jinnah, jinnah was secular nationalist but afterwards he was anti mullaha but for islam and anti secularism.

Hope this explains for you and others some interesting points to think about. regards and all the best.

Mr. Mughal, I just want a short answer to this thats all.Had the congress accepted those points we would not be discussing this matter today.

 

[Humi]

Mr. Jinnah's presidential address to the Constituent Assembly of Pakistan

August 11, 1947

---

Mr. President, Ladies and Gentlemen!
I cordially thank you, with the utmost sincerity, for the honour you have conferred upon me - the greatest honour that is possible to confer - by electing me as your first President. I also thank those leaders who have spoken in appreciation of my services and their personal references to me. I sincerely hope that with your support and your co-operation we shall make this Constituent Assembly an example to the world. The Constituent Assembly has got two main functions to perform. The first is the very onerous and responsible task of framing the future constitution of Pakistan and the second of functioning as a full and complete sovereign body as the Federal Legislature of Pakistan. We have to do the best we can in adopting a provisional constitution for the Federal Legislature of Pakistan. You know really that not only we ourselves are wondering but, I think, the whole world is wondering at this unprecedented cyclonic revolution which has brought about the clan of creating and establishing two independent sovereign Dominions in this sub-continent. As it is, it has been unprecedented; there is no parallel in the history of the world. This mighty sub-continent with all kinds of inhabitants has been brought under a plan which is titanic, unknown, unparalleled. And what is very important with regards to it is that we have achieved it peacefully and by means of an evolution of the greatest possible character.
Dealing with our first function in this Assembly, I cannot make any well-considered pronouncement at this moment, but I shall say a few things as they occur to me. The first and the foremost thing that I would like to emphasize is this: remember that you are now a sovereign legislative body and you have got all the powers. It, therefore, places on you the gravest responsibility as to how you should take your decisions. The first observation that I would like to make is this: You will no doubt agree with me that the first duty of a government is to maintain law and order, so that the life, property and religious beliefs of its subjects are fully protected by the State.
The second thing that occurs to me is this: One of the biggest curses from which India is suffering - I do not say that other countries are free from it, but, I think our condition is much worse - is bribery and corruption. That really is a poison. We must put that down with an iron hand and I hope that you will take adequate measures as soon as it is possible for this Assembly to do so.
Black-marketing is another curse. Well, I know that blackmarketeers are frequently caught and punished. Judicial sentences are passed or sometimes fines only are imposed. Now you have to tackle this monster, which today is a colossal crime against society, in our distressed conditions, when we constantly face shortage of food and other essential commodities of life. A citizen who does black-marketing commits, I think, a greater crime than the biggest and most grievous of crimes. These blackmarketeers are really knowing, intelligent and ordinarily responsible people, and when they indulge in black-marketing, I think they ought to be very severely punished, because the entire system of control and regulation of foodstuffs and essential commodities, and cause wholesale starvation and want and even death.
The next thing that strikes me is this: Here again it is a legacy which has been passed on to us. Along with many other things, good and bad, has arrived this great evil, the evil of nepotism and jobbery. I want to make it quite clear that I shall never tolerate any kind of jobbery, nepotism or any any influence directly of indirectly brought to bear upon me. Whenever I will find that such a practice is in vogue or is continuing anywhere, low or high, I shall certainly not countenance it.
I know there are people who do not quite agree with the division of India and the partition of the Punjab and Bengal. Much has been said against it, but now that it has been accepted, it is the duty of everyone of us to loyally abide by it and honourably act according to the agreement which is now final and binding on all. But you must remember, as I have said, that this mighty revolution that has taken place is unprecedented. One can quite understand the feeling that exists between the two communities wherever one community is in majority and the other is in minority. But the question is, whether it was possible or practicable to act otherwise than what has been done, A division had to take place. On both sides, in Hindustan and Pakistan, there are sections of people who may not agree with it, who may not like it, but in my judgement there was no other solution and I am sure future history will record is verdict in favour of it. And what is more, it will be proved by actual experience as we go on that was the only solution of India's constitutional problem. Any idea of a united India could never have worked and in my judgement it would have led us to terrific disaster. Maybe that view is correct; maybe it is not; that remains to be seen. All the same, in this division it was impossible to avoid the question of minorities being in one Dominion or the other. Now that was unavoidable. There is no other solution. Now what shall we do? Now, if we want to make this great State of Pakistan happy and prosperous, we should wholly and solely concentrate on the well-being of the people, and especially of the masses and the poor. If you will work in co-operation, forgetting the past, burying the hatchet, you are bound to succeed. If you change your past and work together in a spirit that everyone of you, no matter to what community he belongs, no matter what relations he had with you in the past, no matter what is his colour, caste or creed, is first, second and last a citizen of this State with equal rights, privileges, and obligations, there will be on end to the progress you will make.
I cannot emphasize it too much. We should begin to work in that spirit and in course of time all these angularities of the majority and minority communities, the Hindu community and the Muslim community, because even as regards Muslims you have Pathans, Punjabis, Shias, Sunnis and so on, and among the Hindus you have Brahmins, Vashnavas, Khatris, also Bengalis, Madrasis and so on, will vanish. Indeed if you ask me, this has been the biggest hindrance in the way of India to attain the freedom and independence and but for this we would have been free people long long ago. No power can hold another nation, and specially a nation of 400 million souls in subjection; nobody could have conquered you, and even if it had happened, nobody could have continued its hold on you for any length of time, but for this. Therefore, we must learn a lesson from this. You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place or worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed that has nothing to do with the business of the State. As you know, history shows that in England, conditions, some time ago, were much worse than those prevailing in India today. The Roman Catholics and the Protestants persecuted each other. Even now there are some States in existence where there are discriminations made and bars imposed against a particular class. Thank God, we are not starting in those days. We are starting in the days where there is no discrimination, no distinction between one community and another, no discrimination between one caste or creed and another. We are starting with this fundamental principle that we are all citizens and equal citizens of one State. The people of England in course of time had to face the realities of the situation and had to discharge the responsibilities and burdens placed upon them by the government of their country and they went through that fire step by step. Today, you might say with justice that Roman Catholics and Protestants do not exist; what exists now is that every man is a citizen, an equal citizen of Great Britain and they are all members of the Nation.

Now I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims, not in the religious sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the State.

Well, gentlemen, I do not wish to take up any more of your time and thank you again for the honour you have done to me. I shall always be guided by the principles of justice and fairplay without any, as is put in the political language, prejudice or ill-will, in other words, partiality or favouritism. My guiding principle will be justice and complete impartiality, and I am sure that with your support and co-operation, I can look forward to Pakistan becoming one of the greatest nations of the world.

http://www.insaf.pk/Media/InsafBlog...tituent-Assembly-of-Pakistan-August-1947.aspx

Thanks for posting this Unicorn..:)..so people say the bolded part means he was secular? I dont suppose you could explain how that promotes secularism becaue I dont see it..(cry)

 

[Humi]

It is a general statement that most people want balance, but nobody has any idea what that balance is. Why not go for a complete islamic system, why are you afraid of that?
Only a handful of journalists are making noise about secularism as I see on your media....no major political party or awam and mainstream media is talking about changing islamic republic of pakistan into a secular state.....

have you seen our politicians?..lol...:lol:...cant expect anything from them...
yes, you are absolutely right...its only a few people who use the word secularism..but there is a lot of mention of adopting a modern system or saying following the system set up by our ancestors would only lead to our destruction,,,blah blah blah...that promotes the idea of secularism or undermines the idea of an islamic state...
as for the media and political parties using the word secularism...they are not that stupid..they know they will get chappals from the public..